Socialism: Relax, it could be coming to your living room
-
Not always the most glamorous thing to fight for...flickr/wisaflcio
So you’ve got a solid grip on your middle-class status, right? You have a decent job, you take care of yourself, and you don’t need no stinkin’ handout from the government. Handouts count as Socialism in your book, and that’s best left to the Europeans– is that the way you see it?
Well, picture this scenario playing out in your house: You’re standing in the doorway to your living room, figuring out how to transform this relaxation and entertainment space into a bedroom for your elderly parent, with the hospital-style bed right where your couch is now.
What’s that, you say? Your parents are not elderly? Think ahead to the time when your parents can no longer care for themselves, when they’ll have a hard time climbing the stairs to your guest room when they come to visit— or come to stay.
Perhaps they will have moved into a nursing home a few years before your living room makeover, but with the national average cost at $72,000 per year per patient in a nursing home (and that’s a 2011 figure), they have burned through what remained of their savings after retirement. (And, contrary to popular belief, Medicare does not pay for long-term nursing-home care.)
Right now, in 2011, there’s a safety net: Medicaid. I know all about the relief that comes with this financial buffer because my mother at the age of 89 went to live in a nursing home here in Charlottesville, where she remained until she was 93 and passed away there.
Mum was diligent with her finances over the years. She owned her condominium and invested a modest nest egg wisely, living on Social Security survivor’s benefits and a small pension from the time she retired.
But it wasn’t enough– Mum outlived her savings. About a year and a half before her death, the money ran out. All the proceeds from the sale of her home, every penny of the nest egg she tended so carefully over the years– all gone. The monthly Social Security checks and pension income were nowhere near enough to keep her in the nursing home.
And yet, my mother was well taken care of until the day she died. Thank you, Medicaid. Thank you, American taxpayers.
Now and then, you hear someone bemoaning the loss of the extended family in the United States, saying that the elderly should not be sent away to an institution, and are best cared for in the home. But in that rosy scenario, the crucial element is having a healthy adult on the premises at all times to care for Grandma or Grandpa. In the good old days, it was always the lady of the house.
Should your mother or father one day require full-time care, you will be faced with three options: nursing home, hire full-time in-home care, or you quit your job and stay home to care for your elderly parent. In all three scenarios the question is Where is the money coming from?
If the right wing of the Republican party has its way, the spigot of federal funding for Medicaid may well run dry by the time your now-vigorous mother and father will be made indigent following some extended period of time when their medical bills outstrip the savings they socked away during a lifetime of hard work. They will be out on the street unless they are rescued by a benefactor, which will be you.
The newly formed “Super Committee”– Congress’s Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction– will soon be deciding whether to implement Congressman and Tea Party darling Paul Ryan’s plan for our financial future, which calls for repeal of President Barack Obama’s health care law, and includes a block-grant proposal for handing federal Medicaid payments to the states.
This restructuring of Medicaid would turn off the federal money spigot over the next ten years, leaving each state to figure out how to make up the shortfall. Cut Medicaid payments? Cut other state services instead? Raise taxes? All three?
If the Medicaid-is-Socialism voices prevail in shaping our financial future, then Medicaid likely will not be around to pay the nursing home bill after your parents' money runs out.
Perhaps you’ll bring your mother home and hire someone to look after her while you’re at work. Bear in mind that you’ll pay about $21 an hour for those services. Figuring your eight-hour workday plus time for commuting and errands, you’re looking at $210 per 10-hour day for that in-home care.
Should your parent need round-the-clock care, we’re talking $184K per year, which makes the nursing home look like a sweet deal at $72K.
And you thought sending your kids to college would be expensive!
In the absence of the Medicaid safety net, what happens when you have to raid your own retirement nest egg to fund your parents' long-term medical care? How will you send your children to college?
You could find yourself in an intergenerational downward spiral, tumbling into the underclass with no money for your own retirement, and no money for your children’s education. When it comes time for your own nursing home days, you're left with no Medicaid, no savings, and adult children who can’t help you because they didn’t have the financial leg up that a college education would have provided.
It’s not such a stretch to envision the hospital bed in your living room, right next to the oxygen tank and the wheelchair.
There are no easy answers here. But the next time you’re tempted to characterize Medicaid as “Socialism,” you might want to add: “Not that there’s anything wrong with that…”
~
The final night of Jaquith's mom's earthly existence was the topic of an April essay.
50 comments
Socialism didn't used to be a curse word in this country. There was a time when fully one third of our Congress was registered "socialist" or "communist"...and the country didn't fall apart! There is absolutely NOTHING evil inherent in either concept like we were led to believe. Communism and socialism HAVE shown themselves to be doomed concepts when applied to overly large groups of people and when not coupled with more self-interested tensors like capitalism. But every time I see a person with a "No more socialism" sign, I always ask them exactly what their objection to paved roads is, and whether they drove on them that day.
Our country is still mixed capitalist, even with all the subsidies. They subsidies the elderly to benefit their children, that is your point. Though medicaid is considered a subsidy not a completely different structure of government, which is a subset of the command system.
I hope that clears things up!
Socialism, Relax it could be coming to a city near you
http://votebrandoncollins.wordpress.com/
Long as i git my check on 3 then i wont be in yo street takin.
Babyboomers, prepare yourselves for a sea change when you are nearing the end and need help. My prediction, government will not be there to help, and we will have a two tier medical system; with separate and unequal health care for the wealthy and too bad for everyone else.
The rich will pay lower taxes and gain a greater proportion of this country's wealth and the rest of us --well maybe New Hampshire says it all " live free or die "
Both sets of my great-grandparents went to live with one of their children when they were unable to live alone, and no Government payments were required (or available). My parents, one with Alzheimer's, live with my family, and there are no Medicaid payments being made to our household. We provide most of the care for my parents, juggling two careers to do so, and get outside medical help as required that is paid for by my parents Social Security check, with support from my brother.
Your slam against "right-wing Republicans" is gratuitous, and unfair; why should taxpayers, the 51% of us paying Federal Income Taxes, be required to support your families? And what happened to the money from the condo that your mother fully owned? Seems that it would have helped you, had you brought her into your home.
Tom, just wait until your parent with Alzheimer's gets a little further along in the disease and is not safe at home, or wanders all night, or becomes violent, or falls and becomes injured and is unable to be cared for outside of a specialized facility (as happened with my aunt). I have an elderly relative who is 99 and being cared for at home; he requires two nurses at all times, day and night. They are rich (top .05%) and can afford it. But any more health problems, and he will be in a nursing home.
My stepfather was in declining health for many years, and my mother cared for him at home as long as she could, but his health care costs were such that it would have bankrupted her had he lived for another year or two, and then she would have had nothing for her own care down the road.
You "bootstraps" types seem to think everyone lives perfect, mistake-free lives, and that is just not the case. Just because you are able to manage your situation with your parents doesn't mean everyone else can, or that it's even an appropriate situation for everyone. And dollars to donuts you'd rather your situation were different, and you are vaguely resentful, so you share your resentment by wishing it on everyone else.
The point is that your situation is an exception. A civilized society does not let its elderly people suffer, and it does not establish social policies that by design create hardship for families. It does not have to be this way, and the selfish, selfish attitude that "my money is all mine, and I have no responsibility to contribute to society" has got to end. It is much more fair all around to pay some taxes and let the government create programs that help people.
It's not just about health care. I am tired of things like kleenex and hand sanitizer being on elementary school supplies lists, when those are things that the school budgets should cover but don't. The PTO of our local elementary wants to raise $20,000 this year--why on earth do they need so much money except that school budgets aren't providing enough? Our priorities are all wrong.
Yes, 51% of us pay income taxes, and it's mostly we middle-class working stiffs. The rich should pay vastly more. We need schools, we need health care, we need to take care of the elderly and the weakest among us. Not everyone is capable of making $75K a year, or even $40K, and the jobs aren't there anymore anyway.
Ironic that the republicans act like they are "God's Own Party" but espouse policies that jesus would abhor. Just sayin'.
Tom, everyone's situation is different. Great if you and yours can care for your relatives: have the energy, time, job security, and good health to do so. Unfortunately not all old people have families, or the ones that do have their own health problems, and cannot care for their parents. Are you ready to put these people on the street. What kind of culture do you want to live in --sounds like --every man for himself and the weak or unfortunate be da**ed .
Guess the age of compassionate conservatism is over.
Tom: The proceeds from Mum's condo were spent on her health care and living expenses. Whether that care had been in my home, hiring nurses and home health-care workers, or at the Laurels nursing home, doesn't matter. She made the decision to move into the nursing home when her health had deteriorated, but her mind was sharp. What she said at the time was, "My money, my decision."
Your comment wondering why your taxes should be used to support other families is downright chilling. The underlying principle appears to be: I've got mine, and everyone else can die out on the street and it is no business or responsibility of mine.
Surely, an enlightened civilization provides care for its oldest, sickest, and weakest.
this isnt news!!! god this city is boring if this is the crap we're writing about.
@Tom: "My parents, one with Alzheimer's, live with my family, and there are no Medicaid payments being made to our household. We provide most of the care for my parents, juggling two careers to do so, and get outside medical help as required that is paid for by my parents Social Security check, with support from my brother."
You may not have tapped Medicaid yet, but if your parents are on Social Security, they are probably also on Medicare, which means you are not paying "retail" for their medical care. And here's a little tidbit you might want to be aware of: Medicare has limits. It will not pay forever if your parents require long-term intensive medical care. Eventually, Medicare will stop paying, and you will be required to spend down their assets to qualify for Medicaid. That you have not reached that point YET is a blessing.
@Tom:"And what happened to the money from the condo that your mother fully owned? Seems that it would have helped you, had you brought her into your home."
Depending on how much care is required, caring for the elderly at home can be FAR more expensive than in a nursing home. Either way, life's savings can disappear pretty darned quick. I think the author made it fairly clear that that money (along with everything else) was spent caring for her mother. It sounds to me like she made it last alot longer than most.
The problem is during the whole baby boomer existance the government has spent more money than its taken in by both parties. As if saying things are so bad this year we have to spend more than we take in. The Country didn't know what bad is, now its bad. In addition instead of investing the trust funds of Social Security etc. in gold, oil stocks etc. the government borrowed all the money out and replace it with IOUs in a file cabinet in WVa. Now we have 14T in debt and are running 1T+ in red a year. We need to cut back spending, raise taxes, and cut back the military to keep on providing basic services but no new services just to stay solvent. No party wants to cut the military, Republicans say no tax increase, Dems don't want cuts or only projected cuts in some vague future. We should exchange all the SS IOUs the govt gave for all its gold in Fort Knox, cut spending, raise taxes, cut military. Or just sell Alaska back to the Russians/Chinese and wipe out our debt.
Not to quibble, but :'There was a time when fully one third of our Congress was registered "socialist" or "communist"..' is not a true statement.
"Your slam against "right-wing Republicans" is gratuitous, and unfair; why should taxpayers, the 51% of us paying Federal Income Taxes, be required to support your families?"
I agree to a certain extent. Elderly and disabled should not discarded as trash. 50 years ago it was possible for families to take care of their parents because a family could live on one income. Family size for the previous generations was also larger allowing for more pooling of resources and time. Today we do not have those luxuries.
As a conservative what I really resent are the career slugs. The work capable ones who suck on the gments tit and expect to have the same lifestyle as the people working and paying taxes. I also resent the ones who will draw every penny of unemployment insurance until they are forced to get a job. You know exactly who you are.
The slugs have figured out how to vote themselves money and the slug segment is growing larger every generation and is colorblind. The recent Tea Party surge is a direct result of these people and their elected representives.
Medicaid/Medicare should not be cut but monitored closely. The career slugs are the ones who need to have benefits cuts and the current mob mentality has thrown important programs into the frenzy.
Lets cut to the bone where we can but not at the expense of your grandma's dignity.
Just my 2 cents.
Chuck: Medicare will pay for a rehab stay in a nursing home, (following a sufficiently-long hospital stay). This rehab stay, as I recall, can last two or three months, tops. After that, you go home if you've made sufficient progress, or start paying several thousand dollars a month to remain there. (I've heard that, in the Boston area, the average nursing home costs between 10 and 12 thousand dollars per month. We're lucky it's less around here.)
Janis: I have seen what you are talking about firsthand. More power to you. Thanks for the article.
@jl slugs, you mean corporations that pay their CEO's more than they pay in taxes - I'm sick of people dumping on the poor and not on the wealthy that get tax breaks galore --ever hear of land use tax credits in Albemarle County, or historic tax credits or conservation easements, or mortgages, and that is for starters. Our tax system is a gift to the wealthy every day of the year.
What conservative is saying to abolish medicare for old people? All that I hear them question is WHY does it cost 72k a year to babysit an old person when they have a group of people to do it? Just like everything else when the govt helps pay the price skyrockets.
THe babyboomers ARE taking care of their parents and contributed more to the treasury than THEY have taken out. If the LIBERALS didn't give away the money to people who are too lazy and selfish to wait out a cold or treat a twisted ankle with ben gay then the trust fund would be much higher due to compund interest on the money that has been contributed.
LIBERALS drove up medical costs by demanding more and more services from the government. The doctors were more than happy to oblige and now we have a mess on our hands.
One way out is adult daycare that is run by small paid staff, volunteers and people whos parents need it but cannot afford it. Raisinf taxes is just an incentive for people to not save for the inevitable.
The real problem will not be the baby boomers it will be the selfish little snowflakes who were given everything by their parents and will never give anything back to them or anyone else.
The government taxing the rich to take care of thoe lazy is not socialism it is robbery.
In real socialism everybody contrbutes which is why it always fails. The percentage of americans who will always take more than they give is simply too high.
Out od the 49% that already do that how many do you think are conservative Vs liberal?
Medicare pays 90 days with a possible 2 months extension
in rehab. When the $ is gone whenever that may be vets
MUST go through the VA system first and may not be
eligible for Medicaid etc.
Bill, once the wealthy start paying their fair share in taxes, then we can talk. The amount of money that lazy people are wasting pales in comparison to the tax breaks ( I forgot to mention inheritance tax avoidance, by the wealthy) for those of means. If we lose the middle class because they spend all their money taking care of their parents we will all suffer, because we won't have socialism we will have revolution.
Good point Nancy Drew. If you check out the CIA Factbook
countries with highest level of political instability always
have the greatest gaps in wealth distribution. That is, a
small percent have most of the $--something we're clearly
moving toward.
Tax Me More, Europe’s Wealthy Say
"Some analysts said the calls for greater sacrifice from Europe’s wealthy might have sprung from growing concern that austerity measures in Europe were leading to social unrest, after protests in Greece and Spain and images of burning police cars and shops in the streets of London. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/business/global/as-austerity-bites-eur...
As Margaret Thatcher once said, socialism works until you run out of other people's money. If you think it's bad now, just wait until Obamacare goes into effect (if, hopefully, it isn't repealed or determined unconstitutional first). The ONLY way nationalized health care "works" is if health care is rationed. That means Death Panels, or whatever euphemism the libs want to use. So future Ms Jaquiths won't have to worry about their 90 something mothers....they'll never reach that age thanks to some pencil pushing bureaucrat, or panel of bureaucrats. But not to worry. Those who are younger, including, eventually, illegal aliens, can sit at home collecting their tax credit (i.e. welfare) checks and get all the "free" health care they want. But only after waiting months for an appointment. Of course those who are favored by the libs will be granted waivers from mandatory coverage. That includes labor unions and big Democratic party contributors. The rich can fly elsewhere for quality health care. The rest of us? We're %#*'ed.
@Nancy Drew, well said. So many people blame our ills on spending for poor people, when if you look at a pie chart, defense gobbles up a huge share of the pie. But you don't hear people complaining too much about the defense contractor "slugs."
And @Bill Marshall, regarding "people who are too lazy and selfish to wait out a cold or treat a twisted ankle with ben gay," you do realize, don't you, that a huge chunk of health care costs result precisely because people don't get treatment until their condition has become extremely serious. People without health insurance use hospital ERs as their main medical care all the time, but it's not because they have a little cold--it's because they have pneumonia, or cancer, or some other condition that, if they had had the means to care for it earlier, would not have become so advanced. If you want to blame someone for health care costs, blame the insurance companies--talk about scum-sucking bottom feeders. Did you know that insurance companies keep raising medical malpractice premiums, even though the typical jury awards have decreased and few cases ever make it to court?
And Bill, please take a step back at your criticism of liberals. If you look through history, you'll find that the liberal point of view is often vindicated. Liberals got rid of sweatshops and child labor and gave us cleaner air and water and the right for women to vote. Oh, and we got weekends, and public schools, and social security and medicare because of liberals. (You're welcome.)
How has the conservative point of view benefited the common good?
Bill,
"What conservative is saying to abolish medicare for old people?"
Paul Ryan to start.
"All that I hear them question is WHY does it cost 72k a year to babysit an old person when they have a group of people to do it? "
Good question. Maybe you can find the answer in the non-competitive healthcare market, brought to you courtesy of places like the AMA. Or doctors who think they are owed 400k a year in salaries. Or health insurance companies who want to gouge while denying care.
Republicans these days deserve to really get chewed up over stuff like health care, mainly because they are a bag of hypocrites. I'm a real libertarian, and would have no problem cracking up the AMA, and pulling every federal dollar out of medical schools, hospitals, and watching it all fall apart. The so called conservatvies would scream bloody murder along with the Tea Party, and the insurance industry would be forced to really function, or close its doors.
The problem with Obamacare is that it is hardly national health care or socialist. It is a Republican plan - Mitt Romney hello? -that is as fascist as it gets. The GOP only hates it because they didn't do it.
Our neighbor in town (Charlottesville) was on medicaid and medicaid paid to have someone at his house roughly 8am-4pm. He had no family to help so we as neighbors since the 1960s tried to help. After a fall last year he went to rehab at a nursing home. As you say that is up to 3 months then they will assert a lien on your house (medicaid allows 1 house and 1 car). By mistake after 1 month he was given a letter saying his house would be taken or a lein on it starting in --- as he was coded wrong as a permanent resident rather than rehab. At some point he insisted on being sent home but he was still a fall risk. We tried to cover the times medicaid would not that being 4pm+ to the morning. After 2 nights of staying with him all night long and leaving him at 7:30 to go to work and telling him not to move. Between 7:30 and 8 when help arrived he fell and died.
Good article. This is also a concern of mine. My mother was in a car accident when I was a kid, resulting in major brain damage and requiring around-the-clock medical care. Even now that I'm an adult, taking care of her myself is out of the question as she is often violent (resulting from her injury), and it would not be a safe environment for my own family. So, we are left with the nursing home option. Her care (nursing home + meds) is very expensive, and my mom is not even 50, so it's conceivable that these expenses could continue for many more years. But since the last of her assets were spent on medical expenses a long time ago, Medicaid covers my mom. I am so thankful to our country and its taxpayers for providing for my mom. Even with a middle-class household income, my husband and I have three children to provide for, and my mom's extraordinary medical expenses would be enough to drive us to the poor house in a year's time.
I'm not in favor of those abusing the system, but I believe those cases are few and far between compared to the many people like my mom who genuinely need the coverage.
Don't we have the moral fiber as a nation to speak up for, and care for, those who cannot do so for themselves?
My question for those commenters (and emailers -- one wrote: "We ask nothing from no one. Maybe you should do the same, parasite!") who report that they are caring for elderly relatives in their homes and don't ask for or expect a dime from anyone to help them out: What happens when your loved one requires a level of skilled nursing care that family members cannot provide? This situation arises every day, everywhere. Your 80-year-old father who lives with you may now get by with TLC from devoted family members, but what will happen when that's not enough? If his health deteriorates (a distinct possibility for anyone in his 80s), his money will run out and your 401K will be circling the drain. In the absence of Medicaid, bankruptcy (I'm talking about YOUR bankruptcy) is a likely outcome. You would become one of those destitute people that you now despise. Medicaid is a program that could prevent YOUR destitution. Are you so vehemently opposed to giving anyone a leg up that you would compromise your own financial security?
"@jl slugs, you mean corporations that pay their CEO's more than they pay in taxes - I'm sick of people dumping on the poor and not on the wealthy that get tax breaks galore --ever hear of land use tax credits in Albemarle County, or historic tax credits or conservation easements, or mortgages, and that is for starters. Our tax system is a gift to the wealthy every day of the year."
Foodstamps, healthcare, housing, fuel assistance, in some cases a vehicle, cell phone, cut rate cable prices, free lunches, education, unemployment insurance and many more programs. Maybe a stipend is next?
Some people do need long term help. Quite a few of these people are SLUGS.
Now please define poor in the US.
Thanks Janis for making a great case for cooperative and collective responsibility for one another.
I would maybe take some note of "socialized" vs. "socialism" but maybe we can talk about that another day.
It is high time that we start talking about socialized programs, and giving people, workers and communities more control over their lives. We can lift ourselves up by our bootstraps collectively and we'll all do a lot better.
To those calling people on assistance "slugs"- your are placing blame in the wrong place. Corporate welfare, subsidies of the already wealthy, tax breaks- those are much more costly to society than assisting those in need.
I would point out as well- the inability to find work, or to gain a living wage for work performed is what sends people to seek assistance. If we want to do something about reducing the need for assistance then employers need to start paying more, and hiring more. Unfortunately, our current economic system maintains poverty, unemployment, and low wages by design. We can change that by changing the balance of wages and jobs in favor of working people and unemployed people. it should be a crime to accuse someone of laziness when they are unable to find work.
The real lazy ones are the wealthy who by birth, or by keeping most of the profit (excess of labor) created by people who are actually performing the work. All of that excess labor is really ours, the people who perform work or who suffer through unemployment- should we just take it outright or should we ask that some of that profit be returned to us in the form of social programs paid for by taxing the wealthy?
Please visit my campaign site to learn more about how we can change our approach local issues-
http://votebrandoncollins.wordpress.com/
or check out the Socialist Party of Central Virginia at www.spcva.com
and Vote for Brandon Collins on November 8 !!!
Do you really believe that " Foodstamps, healthcare, housing, fuel assistance, in some cases a vehicle, cell phone, cut rate cable prices, free lunches, education, unemployment insurance and many more programs." comes close to the amount of money we hand out to the rich in the form of tax breaks .
Take a look at this article if you want to know the difference between rich and poor.
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
I am always amazed how people will dump on the poor and applaud the rich for getting all the breaks.
I would be interested to hear from someone who can explain why some people are fixated on the few poor people among us who game the system ?
A nation without a heart is a nation who has lost it's soul. Are we there yet ?
"I would be interested to hear from someone who can explain why some people are fixated on the few poor people among us who game the system ?"
There is a vocal segment of America that cannot bear the thought that someone, somewhere, might be getting something that he does not deserve. That thought is so galling that these Americans would prefer to scrap the entire system, even if they themselves would benefit from it. In my opinion, that is cutting off your nose to spite your face, or shooting yourself in the foot, because there is no "them." There is only "us."
The reason why some people, especially white conservative males focus on those few poor gaming the syste is because they actually can identify with them. They are either attempting to game the system a bit themselves, albeit in a different way, or they are facing the same unrealistic odds, but are arginally better off, and feel cheated. Of course they are being cheated, but by the very people telling them how bad benefits like foodstamps are. They can't identify with the person screwing the, because that sort of wealth is so remote for them.
I admit as a ember of the dying middle class, that it is frustrating to know that I am the one who is actually paying for all those foodstamps, not the uber wealthy, and it is dragging me down. But y response is its time to deal with the I got ine attitude, and the rampant greed of CEO's. They punish the shareholder, and they punish the employee. I would rather not raise taxes on anyone, but its time to invest in our infrastructure, and bring jobs back home. Its time to accept that healthcare cannot be a fee for service black hole. It makes us less competitive.
The wealthy elite business class (not small business owners) perpetuates myths about people based on the philosophy of Darwin and Herbert Spencer because its a way to divide and conquer and maintain power. It pits people against each other. They pimp the American Dream, you know, "if everyone just works hard they can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and succeed." If the American Dream worked the middle class would bot be shrinking as it is now-The American a lie used to perpetuate complacency among Americans. The corporate elite and their PR firms manufacture lies about society and government doing its job to compensate for an unfair market system that is broken because of the cultural system of materialism and greed within which it operates. They make "socialism" into a bad word and harp on the myth that is tramples on the property rights of individuals. What we really need is work place democracy in which people share in the fruits of their labor in ways beyond being a unit of labor to some CEO fat cat. We need a stock market that does not depend on greed and the downsizing or outsourcing of labor to to work and again keep owners of capiital pitted against non-owners of capital.
Remember Marxism got started as a response to the dehuminization of laborers in the industrial revolution.We are back to that point and American socirty is deteriorating. If you go back to Marx's original and philosophical writings its all about how people treat each other. Now because we live in hyperand unbridled capitalist society we don't care about the contributions made to society and the economy by elderly people, we don't care that college costs are going up and the only way middle and working class people can go to college is by taking on the yoke of student loans making the bankers richer and richer and saddling our young people with debt and maintaining the inequities. We just don't care about each other any more.
Wilson and Picket, in their book, the Spirit Level, do a very nice job with statistics showing how we live together or die alone as a society. Highly unequal societies are bad for everyone, rich and poor. The rich suffer from mental illness because of the system of inequality in which they thrive financially. In the end socialism is just another word for how we feel about ourselves and how we view our relationship to others. In europe they do a much better job at reflecting positive self identities in social programming. Are we selfish in nature or connected in nature? I know a lot of people are not into the spiritual aspects of this but the article really reminded me that this is a spiritual problem as much as it is a political or economic problem. When you look back on your life will it be about selfish material gain or about being connected with and serving other people? We are not just consumers and leisure seekers.
Until then I want politicians in office who understand that the market system is unfair and does not work and must be compensated for by government intervention,I want a more equitable society even if that means the min wage is 25.00 an hour (COME ON UVA) and CEO and shareholders don't make huge profits (including me). I wish Obama had made it to Madison. I think medicaid and social security are top priorities over the profits of huge corporations. I think student loans should be abolished and we should tax the wealthy and huge corporations fairly and enough to go back to giving grants to students who can't afford college. I think there should be huge tax incentives for businesses to democratize their work places so that people in small businesses have a say in how their businesses are run, how layoffs occur, and how profits are distributed.
Elderly people contributed and now the must be taken care of and not by sticking it to the middle class, its a major indicator of the health of a society and ours needs a doctor real bad.
So most of you feel that you should have a say in how much a person makes or how many benefits someone should receive in the business world? How much a person is worth at a particular job is driven by the going price and by what is deemed appropriate by the business and not by you. Top to bottom it is driven by job market.
As for Janis. "There is a vocal segment of America that cannot bear the thought that someone, somewhere, might be getting something that he does not deserve. "
No Janis. The vocal segment see a pattern that is becoming a nanny state. Take a look at how Social Security was originally setup and look at the structure today. Let us also look at Medicaid/medicare from the original goal to what it is today. They just keep expanding to people they were never intended to include. I would also like to point out that some here are saying the 'rich' do not deserve what they are receiving.
Some of you say I am dumping on the poor but yet I have no problem helping the poor. I have no problem donating a considerable percentage of my pay to charities and I have no problem paying a fair share. I have a problem when people tell me that I have to yet again help with another program designed to make people not work. 9% unemployment but yet the Va Employment Commision is loaded with jobs on their site. Monster is not lacking either.
BTW. Nice article.
jezzelouise,
"9% unemployment but yet the Va Employment Commision is loaded with jobs on their site. Monster is not lacking either."
I question how many of those listed jobs are real jobs. I also question how low paying jobs are supposed to provide solutions to the above article writer's challenge. Many people who receive benefits are do work, and work hard.
I also disagree that what business will pay are necessarily 'what the market will bare.' I say that as a libertarian. I see what big business does as extremely anti-competitive, as it works very hard to manipulate the marketplace to punish competitive models and force its own view of what it 'thinks' it should be paying people, or who should be allowed to compete with them. What do you think Bill Gates is doing when he runs crying to Congress that ' he can't get talent.' Bull he can't get talent. He just wants to undercut the domestic talent that is superior, but burdened with debt from student loans. In other words, he doesn't want to pay the true market cost of skilled labor.
And if the CEO compensation were truly market value, and shareholders had an actual say, do you really think for one minute the packages for non-performance would be what they are? That stock values would have been stalled for the last 10 years? Of course not. But thats because with the demise of the retirement system to the fraudulent 401K theft scheme, there is no market balance to keep it in check. All CEOs are board members on each others' corporations. Isn't it amazing then how their salaries have exploded?
Then lets look at the grossly unfair tax code that says that some small business owner should pay higher tax rates than some jerk pushing toxic assets on Wall Street. Sounds like Wall Street s telling everyone exactly what they think everyone has a right to earn, and what taxes they should pay. In a truly competitive marketplace, that wouldn't happen, now would it? There has been a direct negative statistical correlation with business creation and the giant tax cuts for capital income, and it isn't a mystery why. We don;t produce anything because it doesn't pay Wall Street to produce anything.
Spare us the defense of the 'rich'. The 'rich' have been keeping competition out of the market and manipulating it for all they have been worth over the last 30 years, since Ronnie Raygun, and it has nothing to do with SS being socialist. The fact is, if we truly had a competitive capitalistic market, we wouldn't have expanded those programs.
Wake up, smell the coffee, and stop the nanny state limited intelligence cry. you might want competitive capitalism but it ain't what is being brought to you by the market right now.
"I question how many of those listed jobs are real jobs. I also question how low paying jobs are supposed to provide solutions to the above article writer's challenge"
I bet many of the unemployed are saying the exact same thing instead of checking them out.
Maybe you or they feel those jobs are beneath what they are entitled to.
".. manipulate the marketplace to punish competitive models and force its own view of what it 'thinks' it should be paying"
Yes old timer. There is a mass conspiracy in play across the globe. It was probably W's fault.
"Isn't it amazing then how their salaries have exploded"
More power to them. I wish I had those negotiation skills.
"..grossly unfair tax code that says that some small business.. some jerk pushing toxic assets on Wall Street."
You wonder why jobs and tax money are going oversees? Hint:35% - 60 minutes did a special on this about 4 weeks ago. I hope you watched it. If not I am sure it is on their website. China and India are the other elephants in the room.
"Wake up, smell the coffee, and stop the nanny state limited intelligence cry."
Don't even try.
@jeezlouise, if you had ever been on unemployment, you'd know that it barely pays the rent--and you have to pay taxes on it. The idea that people on unemployment are having a party all day is just bull. The good jobs are gone for a majority of people. Old Timer makes some great points, and it's a shame that you have such faith in your FOX News talking points that you can't understand what s/he is saying.
The stock market is down today because of unemployment data. Cry me a river; the corporations are sitting on piles of cash. If they would hire some people, the unemployment numbers wouldn't be so bad now, would they?
Jeezelouise,
"I bet many of the unemployed are saying the exact same thing instead of checking them out.
Maybe you or they feel those jobs are beneath what they are entitled to. "
As I am gainfully employed, no I am not checking those jobs out. But I do recall some years ago why your very simplistic attitude is quite unrealistic. I tink of my daughter when in college, worked for an employer who was pretty unprofessional and decided to dismiss her when he was ashamed of something. He fought her, but she qualified for unemployment. the catch was, she had to take the first full time job available to her. She wasn't working full time, wasn't going to get full time benefits, yet she was expected to throw away her college tuition and a semester of education to collect them. Imagine, if she did didn't graduate, and was then forever doomed to working in lower wage jobs, and not adding to the tax base or economic productivity.
You attitude about being 'too good' for something is just stupid. You don't take skill and just throw it in the trash, because it costs our society. It is incredibly inefficient and is as bad as someone taking unemployment. It's a lot bigger question to ask why our economy is only creating low skill jobs, and not higher skilled ones. Thats a much bigger problem, and dumping that on the unemployed as if they are slackers who are entitled is a load of rubbish, and smells like envy.
I also question how many of those jobs listed on the site are real jobs, or just jobs for people like Gates to run back and say ' see, I couldn't find anyone.' Its a game.
I am not saying I don't agree with you on people being lazy or feeling entitled, but when you bandy about words like 'nanny state' you tell me you don't have a blinking clue about how an economy really works, or what is going on. You just want to repeat cute little phrases from the right wing echo chamber. If you are listening to them, you are listening to people who want to manipulate your ignorance to pay off their real only constituents, Msrs Koch.
I know there are lots of employers who want to do good things for their employees even if they can only pay 9-10 an hour, but don't expect someone with a CS degree and 100k in debt to fall over that. Nor should they.
JL,
"35%"
Like they pay that.
So when are you taking one of those jobs bub? I think you should work with the Chinese, and them come back and tell us how wonderful it is.
Thank you Janis, for raising this very valid issue. When my own mother started forwarding those "socialism" emails to me a few years back, I responded that all those who are so vociferous about it should certainly not be using Medicare and Social Security, as those can be considered socialism.
I am grateful, however, that my mother had the foresight to purchase long-term care insurance for my father years before he was formally diagnosed with Alzheimers. However, my middle class parents relied on the generosity of a rich relative's annual $10,000 gift to pay for it. Dad is gone now, and so it that relative, but my mother lives extremely frugally (and luckily sold their home and downsized to a condo, so made a profit on the real estate) and pays $10,000 a year out of pocket for long term care insurance (she is 82) in case she needs care in the future. I am very thankful for that, although concerned that the insurance company may get out of the business and not sure where that leaves her.
As for me, I think I would just roll my wheelchair off a cliff at a certain point if I had Alzheimers, rather than have my family have to go through what we did during my Dad's long decline...
Long term care insurance is very expensive. The agents
always quote the average which is skewed by a relatively
small number who are in nursing homes for years. The
mean is much lower (I'm counting on it--that--and some
variation of the cliff option).
Dawg- "Sorry Dawg", but many are having a party. Working without paying taxes and collecting at the same time.....at least for 26 weeks, no 52 weeks, no 104 weeks......
Yes, there are those who spend their time looking for a job at the same time they collect, but it does not take a lot of time to complete the daily job search.
@HarryD, do you actually know people who are doing that, or the the teevee tell you it was true?
Dawg- we all know them..............
Harry, I really don't know anyone doing that. Then again, I don't have any friends collecting unemployment. The ones who can't find full-time work are cobbling together part-time and freelance work.
Dawg- open your eyes and your mind. It is so easy to do, there are many who do it.
Plenty of part timers out there do it, as it is very easy to do. Ever see the questionaire for the weekly job search?
No, I am not one of them.
Harry, I think you are in an alternate universe.
"... 'nanny state' you tell me you don't have a blinking clue about how an economy really works, or what is going on. You just want to repeat cute little phrases from the right wing echo chamber"
Well oldtimer why don't you put your money and your morals where your mouth is?
I am sure you can gather 6 like minded individuals and select 4 other able bodied people that the 6 of you can assist. You can keep it simple and have it only apply to housing, transportation, and food assistance. As the 4 become self sufficient those individuals can collectively help the others.
I am sure your economic expertise will shine as you collectively pull up the ole bootstrings.
You may even get a gig as an economic advisor to the WH.
BTW. 35% is the set rate and why there are so many deductions. Those still do not bring it down to other industrialized figures when companies are US based.
I'm certainly no saint, my best guess is I'd burst into flames if I stepped one foot in a church. But its my choice to live in the real world. Having said that, I love to hear rightys squabble about socialism, higher taxes, my God, even taxing the rich and corperations that pay no taxes at all, its all so ludicrous. As far as medicare, medicaid, social security, I paid for it, and I'mma gonna get it. Aside from that, woo be unto thee who wishes ill on those who can't help them self. My favorite response to those who begrudge medicaid recipients? But for the grace of God go I. I'm hoping some rightys out there truly understand what that means. I doubt it.