2 dead: Same gun used in Virginia Tech deaths
Update December 9: Police are saying the same handgun that killed a university police officer also was used on the second man found in a parking lot. The second person is believed to be the shooter and the weapon was found near his body.
Officer Deriek Crouse, 39, is the father of five.
Original post
A police officer making a routine traffic stop at Virginia Tech was shot and killed around noon today.
Witnesses reported the suspect fled on foot. At another parking lot called the Cage, a second person was found dead.
The university was under lockdown until around 4:30pm, according to the Collegiate Times. The suspect is described as a white male in gray sweatpants, gray hat with a neon green brim, a maroon hoodie and a backpack, WINA reports.
in 2007, 32 people were killed at the Blacksburg campus in what ranks as the deadliest shooting massacre in U.S. history.
51 comments
Listening now to the 4:30 press conference and it is very confusing. They are not saying if the second person shot is the gunman, but they are saying there is no longer a threat and students are free to move around at will. That being the case, it is fair to deduct, that the second body at the Cage parking lot was the gunman. A weapon was found in the vicinity of the second body.
My kids will NEVER attend that school. The campus is a freaking war zone.
The official at the press conference just confirmed, without confirming, that the second body is that of the killer of the police officer by saying. " you can read between the lines."
All the top brass of Va. Tech were in Washington at the time of the shooting.
" A precedent-setting hearing in Washington concluded early today in the case of Virginia Tech's appeal of federal fines levied against it in the wake of the April 16, 2007, shootings on campus."
http://www.roanoke.com/news/breaking/wb/302109
Here are the most up to date details of this traumatic event.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/shots-fired-at-virg...
Frank, this sort of thing could happen at any campus in the US, none are barbwired in and they don't check you at the gate. If it happened at UVA, guarantee the response would be even longer - and to expect UVA Police to respond well to anything - they can't even investigate a rape case correctly.
You can't stop a unbalanced person from doing anything - it could happen anywhere at anytime. To state your kids would never go to VT is an ignorant statement. No one could have predicted the 2007 incident, nor could they have stopped it. The first on the scene there saw what appeared to be a domestic/lovers issue gone bad. When they found out otherwise, they issued an alert. Could they have improved? They did. But I dare say if the same thing happened at UVA or any other campus the reaction would be as swift. Tech's technology is more advanced.
As a non US resident i am always impressed by the bravery of your citizens when faced with these incidents .
Why would someone who doesn't live in the US be commenting on a Charlottesville blog about an incident that didn't even happen here?
Um whynot? Everyone deserves a voice.
It was reported on CBS that the VA Tech police contacted the State police for assistance. your cover story today is something I have been following - HB 2490. Can the Hook find out how long it took before the campus police contacted the State Police for assistance? The point being, HB 2490 was to require campus police to call local police whenever a felony (murder & rape) occur on campus grounds. VA Tech fought HB 2490, sent a large presence to Richmond many times and argued over and over that they were the best trained campus police force in the US ---- they made sure they lobbied to prevent HB 2490 from being passed by the Crime Commission. Yet today, when a felony occurred on their campus they immediately called out for assistance (which was the right thing to do). SO, why all the hoopla to prevent a bill that would have benefitted every campus in Virginia? They owe Mrs Russell a huge apology!
Evidence confirms earlier unconfirmed report:
"Virginia State Police have confirmed that the second person found shot to death -- a man whose body was located in campus Parking Lot I, near the Duck Pond -- was visible in video footage taken from slain Virginia Tech patrol officer Deriek Crouse's car.
Also visible in the footage was the weapon that was recovered near the body found in Lot I. "
http://www.roanoke.com/news/breaking/wb/302116
Truth,
Whatever. Most other schools are not overrun with ill-tempered, gun-toting rednecks. Feel free to send your own kids down there if you like though.
Besides, my kids' grades are good enough that they won't have to go there.
I know all the arguments in favor of guns, but I still say, the prevalence of guns, no matter what state or what country, will increase the risk of violence in our society.
Frank Hardy,
Wake up call.....You said, "Besides, my kids' grades are good enough that they won't have to go there."
Virginia Tech is not a community college, their criteria for acceptance is very high and it will probably surprise you that your kid's "good enough" grades are not enough to get in to Virginia Tech. To get in to Virginia Tech you have to be so much more than a book worm.
Your kid's grades that are, "good enough," will rock your world when they don't get accepted to Virginia Tech. Sounds like your ego is being shoved onto your kids. I suggest a "B" plan for your kids. Community college is a great plan, from there, you can go anywhere!
Good Luck!
Here is what you said while talking down to us through your nose....
FrankHardy December 8th, 2011 | 10:38pm
Truth,
Whatever. Most other schools are not overrun with ill-tempered, gun-toting rednecks. Feel free to send your own kids down there if you like though.
Besides, my kids' grades are good enough that they won't have to go there.
"Virginia Tech is not a community college, their criteria for acceptance is very high and it will probably surprise you that your kid's "good enough" grades are not enough to get in to Virginia Tech. To get in to Virginia Tech you have to be so much more than a book worm."
Compared to what?
Yes. Rather than a 'bookworm' one of the requirements seems to have been that one must learn how to eventually fight and abuse dogs, as well as serve prison time and expect the world to forgive.
@ Truth Hurts
I agree with all your points except this one: "No one could have predicted the 2007 incident, nor could they have stopped it."
Actually, that's not true. One of Seung Hui-Cho's professors complained about him on multiple occasions to administrators and knew there was an issue with him, but nobody listened. Forget her name, but she even wrote a book about it. You are kind of right in that nobody could have predicted that Cho's disturbed personality would result in the VT massacre, but I think it could have been prevented. There were signs. There were complaints, from both students and professors. But school administrators didn't act on those complaints. If they had, then maybe the outcome would have been very different, and 33 people would still be alive today.
No Name, don't sweat FrankHardy--VT doesn't need him, and clearly his kids don't plan on getting a seriously good degree in engineering. Liberal arts should work out fine for them.
No Name & Hoolarious,
Please. Where I come from (not so very long ago), Tech was EVERYONE'S "safety school". You applied there in case you did not get accepted elsewhere. It was as simple as that.
Now, they are a fallback option with the benefit of a good football team. So the kids who have to go there can puff out their chests a little more during the fall, but nothing really has changed.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, No Name. But I am quite confident that with my kids’ combination of extra-curriculars and academics, they will never have to take a whiff of Blacksburg (or attend community college…not that there is anything wrong with community college).
Hoolarious is correct though in the sense that VPI grinds out quite competent engineering graduates. The ones who work for me are thoroughly decent at their jobs.
Typical Hook readers commentary here...two people have lost their lives and it turns into a name calling pissing match about whether VT is a school worth attending. Idiots with guns are everywhere, whether it's a supermarket parking lot in Tucson, AZ or a college campus in VA. Take a look at the bigger picture people instead of grinding out your petty personal agendas. My prayers go out to the families affected by this tragedy.
Yep. VT was a safety school for my friends too. Really too bad about all the killings going on down there.
I just want to say that I am completely ashamed at some of the total jacka**es that we have in this town. I can’t believe that they have no heart, no compassion whatsoever. I am so sorry for what has happened at VT and hope you can all just ignore these idiots. They don’t speak for us.
What a senseless act that has destroyed so many lives. Five children will not grow up with their daddy’s voice, guiding them. He was torn from them by an act of violence. Five children will never feel his hugs or know the security of him being there ever again. Emptiness, desolation and finally, grief.
And you guys are huffing and puffing about the school.
Relax duannah. The people posting here speak only for themselves - as do you. Besides, I seriously doubt the bereaved family is checking the out-of-town news blogs for messages of condolence.
For the record, I too am gad that my daughter does not go to Tech.
You know something, Relax? People from VT do read The Hook. It is not just the families. It is everyone there suffering because they knew these people or because they are just in shock that another tragedy has occurred on campus. It is relatives or friends right here in Charlottesville. The world is not as small as you think. Whether or not you want your kid to go there, they will probably go to school somewhere and this could happen ANYWHERE.
Why are you peple discussing Virginia Tech? I don't even consider this to be a "Virginia Tech" incident. It was simply some idiot walking by who decided to kill a cop. There's a lot of people out there who have the same thoughts from time to time. It could have happened at any intersection in the city. If it had taken place on West Main in front of Mincer's Pipe Shop, would it be called a massacre at UVA?
What is also disturbing to me is the fact that a high ranking government official like Governor McConnell would publicly announce that his daughter attends this college.
@ duannah "I just want to say that I am completely ashamed at some of the total jacka**es that we have in this town. I can’t believe that they have no heart, no compassion whatsoever."
Yes, welcome to the Hook's comments section, where unfortunately most of the posters sound to me like they're guys, in their 30's - 60s who are very bitter and hateful towards the world. They all tend to sound the same when posting, the same short, brusque, cold statements with zero sense of a warm person going on underneath, and where for them, it's all about posturing their ego and showing off their supposed intellect, having to be right and get the last word in, and trying to outdo each other with the cold, brusque cut downs. Who knows who these "people" really are.
Maybe so. But if thoughtless comments posted to a news message board are likely to cause someone to become overwrought, they should probably avoid said message boards. Sounds like you should take that advice yourself.
And this didn't happen just anywhere. It happened at Virginia Tech. On campus. Again.
Deleted by moderator.
Now, now Truther. Sticks and stones...
From the looks of things, we're ALL lucky you don't run the world.
@Truth Hurts
"boooo! - a complaint of unusal behavior does what?"
It gets a person the help they need, and maybe helps prevent a tragedy down the line. From what the professor described in the book she wrote which I was perusing through, Cho was an extremely troubled person. And it wasn't just mildly troubled or a little unusual. The kid was apparently downright menacing in class, and clearly suffering from a psychological disturbance with a troubled homelife. Counseling may not have solved his problems, but maybe it would have at least prevented the shooting. In this case, since more than one person had complained about Cho then it seems VT could have done more to look into the situation.
@ Truth Hurts
Forgot to add in my previous post, while I get what you're saying about how hard it is to force somebody to get help, or take meds (or worse case scenario....start looking at the option of expulsion....) the fact is VT didn't even try. At least if they'd tried, but it didn't work, then they can say "Hey, we at least did something, so don't look at us." But they didn't. They did nothing. So, the public will never have the luxury of knowing what could have been had they at least tried.
Virginia Tech is a perfectly adequate school. Though hanging your hat solely on the engineering program is a bit misleading. Would anyone seriously consider the University of Maryland to be a better school simply because it has a higher ranked engineering program (which it does, according to US News)? Don't think so.
Even though I now live in Raleigh, I read articles on the Hook website daily and I like reading the comments (especially GSOE's comments). What happen on VT campus is a tragic and my heart goes out to the officer's family. Tragedies like this can happen on any school campus--high school or college. Hell, the same day that this officer's lost his life, an officer here in North Carolina, lost his life while trying to arrest someone one for back child support. A young lady was wounded while filling out a job application at Food Lion when a gunman came in to settle the score with his domestic partner. These days you just don't know what can make people SNAP.
"FrankHardy December 8th, 2011 | 10:38pm
Truth,
Whatever. Most other schools are not overrun with ill-tempered, gun-toting rednecks. Feel free to send your own kids down there if you like though.
Besides, my kids' grades are good enough that they won't have to go there."
much safer here in cville where they cover up the rapes, bash the heads in, and leave the bodies in snowy fields, and still make time for foxfield in daddys range rover
Shootings on a college campus equate to terrorism. You don't know when and where they will occur, so you have to have the right response in place to resolve and diffuse the situation quickly. The response on Dec 8th at VT was well orchestrated and, in Larry Hincker's words, an "integrated effort" between campus and state police. VA Tech learned from the 2007 shootings but never took responsibility. Last week VA Tech went to Richmond and testified against HB 2490 to the VA Crime Commission. That bill required collaboration between campus and local police whenever a felony occurs on a college campus. They argued that campus police are better trained than local police and do not need assistance to investigate felonies. Yet their response yesterday was immediate contact/collaboration with the state police. Was it because one of their own was murdered? Or was it the right thing to do? I hope their response to that question is the latter - it was the right thing to do. The Crime Commission should have passed HB 2490 because, as was proven on Dec 8th, it is the right protocol when a murder occurs on a college campus.
@boooo - no it doesn't. You can't commit someone who hasn't done anything to themselves or others. Just like you can't get a restraining order on someone who hasn't done anything. I agree - there should be more out there to GET people help and avert things that have happened but that went out the window in the 1980s. Since then there have been more and more incidents where people who are a bit imbalanced do some insane things that hurt innocent people.
The issue is try to commit someone - see what you have to go through - and you better have insurance or it will be possibly a 72 hour hold. Then do this - try to get a court order to have an adult to take their meds and go to therapy - see how far you get and how much you have to spend - not just money but time.
I think Tech did more than UPenn! Hands down. We all can agree on that!
Wow, all the rage and ill temper here regarding UVA and Tech. Like UVA and the area surrounding it are so safe compared to VT? Ask rape victim Liz Seccuro and her parents. Or Morgan Harrington's parents. Or Yeardley Love's parents. No campus is safe, although I'd bet both Blacksburg and Charlottesville are safer than College Park, MD or Berkeley, CA. I have two kids who are UVA grads and another is a Tech grad. The only thing I can say for sure is that you need better grades/SATs for UVA than Tech. I can also say that UVA has more horse's you-know-whats who think their poop doesn't stink than Tech does. Grades aren't everything. You can have a degree from some State University (or community college followed by transfer to a 4 year college) and be a big success in life because you're smart, work hard and have a decent personality/work well with others. You can have a degree from an Ivy and be a miserable failure in life because you're lazy, look down your nose at everyone because you think you're better than them and just be a total all around misanthrope who thinks the world owes you something.
If you have a degree from some snotty, elitist university and figure you're something special because of it, I feel very sorry for you.
LOL! the comments have really degraded on this page. I have a degree from a "northern school" and yet, despite all odds, sent my kids to UVA and Tech. The problem with Virginians is that they don't so what's right to protect their kids. They are so worried about image, they forget what is right and proper. this week's cover is about rape at UVA and the lead story is about murder at Tech. That about sums it up.
I meant to type "they don't do what's right" - Yankees talk too fast and type too fast -- LOL!
Frank Hardy, my insulting you were in good fun and humor - at no time did I "physically threaten you". I didn't attend Tech FYI. I think you are taking things a bit too seriously. And it was you who first started the insults. If you you choose to dish it out - you better be able to take it. I'm just sayin'...
And for the record, http://www.biography.com/people/seung-hui-cho-235991 - Cho was hospitalized, court ordered to go to therapy and apparently went to one session. If you read further, there were signs and there was action (as much as they could do legally). As I stated before, there was a breakdown in the metal health care of this country in the 1980s and the results are we have thousands who should be in hospitals but are not.
It would be nice if one could say, this person is "mean" and acts like a "bully" and they would get mental help but it isn't that simple.
Many here are very correct - this could happen at any place and any time. We live in a very violent society and it started long before the current administration in charge and their predecessor too. (Before anyone here starts pulling politics into it all.)
Instead of looking down your nose at particular colleges, community college or other, you should educate your children to have common sense. Something truly lacking in today's society.
Clara - this area has been infused by non-natives and northerners. I'm a Virginian and I don't care what you think of what I do when it comes to raising my child to know right from wrong, have manners (in spite of rudeness) and do the right thing. I also have taught my children to have common sense.
That is something you don't learn from a college education.
@Truth Hurts - I didn't insult you nor comment on your ability to raise children. Direct your anger to those who insult you. Virginians may be more polite, but geesh,they sure as hell don't listen to the whole sentence.....
According to this analysis of FBI crime statistics gun crime is rising in Virginia.
"How bad is gun crime in the US? The latest data from the FBI's uniform crime reports is out and it provides a fascinating picture of the use of firearms in crimes across America.
At the beginning of the year the shooting spree in Tucson, Arizona, that targeted congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords left six dead, including a nine-year-old child. But since then, the issue has been given scant attention.
However, the figures themselves are astounding for Brits used to around 600 murders per year. In 2010 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 12,996 murders in the US. Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms.
While gun crime is down in the vast majority of states, it is up in New York, Virginia, New Jersey, Mississippi, Missouri, Arizona, Delaware, New Hampshire
Massachusetts, North Dakota, Connecticut and several of the smaller states. "
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state
Oh I see. It's all in "good fun and humor" once you get called out on it. I didn't threaten you either - just said you could use a fat lip. Never said I'd be the one to deliver it. Based on what we have learned about you from your posts, I'm sure there is no shortage of people (who actually have the misfortune to know you) who be be happy to oblige.
And you need to go back and see who first insulted who. I made a comment about the violent climate at VPI, and you got your panties in a wad and started hurling insults. Get your facts straight and stop rewriting history.
Frank Hardy, et al Please, let's leave UVA out of this. We haven't had the problem of killings on campus, yet, and we should be thankful; but, comparing the two schools, or other schools, unnamed, is just bad form. There are guns everywhere. This past summer, I saw a man darting into a store at Rio Hill shopping center, he was wearing a ratty cowboy hat, his shirt open and flapping, blue jeans, cowboy boots, and a pistol worn openly on his belt. He was legal. He would have been identified as a 'redneck', and he was here in Charlottesville, in broad daylight. Guns are everywhere, but you usually don't see them, especially if the bearer has a concealed carry permit. ----This country, as a whole, has always had a gun culture; it has never served us well. That said, you can't put the genie back in the bottle; you take your chances. Everywhere.
Marcus and everybody else), this shooting has nothing to do with the Virginia Tech campus. It was just some nut who wanted to kill a cop. It happens everywhere. Here's another example of a cop who simply wanted to kill a police officer.....
http://lawenforcementtoday.com/2011/12/11/sergeant-david-enzbrenner-poli...
At no point in ANY of my posts did I ever mention the University of Virginia. Interesting, huh?
"While gun crime is down in the vast majority of states, it is up in New York, Virginia, New Jersey, Mississippi, Missouri, Arizona, Delaware, New Hampshire
Massachusetts, North Dakota, Connecticut and several of the smaller states. "
I am all for stupid people not being able to purchase firearms. That means I would be the only one with one. Kneel before me surfs!
Does anything know the WHY of this? The newspapers so far have only been able to find his friends who didn't know anything about it...
@ discoduck: Because of your talking about "surfs" (sic), no guns for you! Are you a UVA grad, "surf"?
"@ discoduck: Because of your talking about "surfs" (sic), no guns for you! Are you a UVA grad, "surf"?"
Rule 1. Do not argue with the only person allowed to own guns.
Rule 2. 'Surfs' will be the new spelling.
No, just a smuck from nowhere.
charlie aka "discoduck" don't serf
Donkey's frolicking
Fast and Furious are they
Death becomes a game