Poll position: Tight race puts prof policies in spotlight
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"We believe our students can manage a test and vote all in the same day," says University spokesperson Carol Wood, responding to complaints that UVA doesn't make Election Day voting easier for students.lisa provence -
"Rumors of Virginia's demise as a swing state are highly exaggerated," wrote UVA's Larry Sabato in his Crystal Ball report.file photo by Will Walker
With just days to go before the Presidential election, new information released by the State Board of Elections suggests that getting to the polls in Virginia on Election Day may be more important than ever. Just four days ago, the Board reported that the absentee voting rate was actually 30 percent lower compared to the same time in 2008.
"That's a pretty big fall off in absentee voting," says Geoffrey Skelley, a political analyst at the University of Virginia Center for Politics, who points out the Elections Board discovered the drop after finding an error in its earlier analysis.
In a state that, as the Center's Larry Sabato pointed out six days ago, is "tilting toward Romney, but only by a hair," a few thousand, or even a few hundred votes could determine who wins Virginia and, perhaps, the whole shebang.
They're taking the closeness seriously over at the Obama headquarters in Charlottesville. After fielding complaints from UVA students– many of whom will be voting for the first time– about an economics professor who scheduled a major exam for November 6 at 5:30pm, the campaign organized a shuttle from the professor's classroom to the polls.
"My first thought was that this exam shouldn't be allowed," says fourth-year UVA student Rachel Lucy. "It seems unethical.
"We live in a state in which a handful of votes may decide the election, and this election will affect the lives of millions of people," says Lucy, noting several friends share her concerns.
In a broader sense, Lucy believes that holding class at all, let alone a test, should not happen on election day.
"I think it's easy for us to take democracy for granted," says Lucy, "because it's all we have known, but there are people in other countries who risk their lives in the hope that their voices will be heard. The University should encourage civic engagement, not make it more difficult."
Back before the 2008 Presidential election, UVA was in the news when 2,723 people signed a petition organized by student Democrats and Republicans asking that professors who schedule exams or deadlines for major assignments on Election Day consider rescheduling them, or give students a break if they miss them, to make it easier to get out and vote.
"By expressing an understanding of the students’ desire to partake in this election," the petition stated, "the administration and faculty of UVA will be sending a message indicating the significance of students' actively participating in the electoral process.
The University declined to heed the petition's demand in 2008, and UVA appears to have no intention of heeding it this time either.
"We believe our students can manage a test and vote all in the same day," says University spokesperson Carol Wood.
However, a certain institution of higher learning to the south, Liberty University in Lynchburg, founded by an icon of conservative politics, has taken a different stance, instituting an Election Day tradition of canceling classes and even providing buses to the polls to encourage voter participation.
Some UVA faculty wonder why UVA won't take the step of encouraging faculty to clear schedules that day, something Architecture School Dean Karen Van Lengen did in 2008.
"She issued a request to faculty to take Election Day into account in their course planning," says Rachel Lucy's father, Architecture School professor Bill Lucy. "Virginia has become a swing state. Voting obstacles are serious."
Back in 2008, UVA Economics Professor Kenneth Elzinga's scheduling of an important exam for his Econ 1010 class on Election Day was mentioned in the student petition, and when he scheduled it again for Election Day this year, it sent up red flags for Professor Lucy.
The class has about 1,000 students, most of them 1st and 2nd years, and the course is an important prerequisite for getting into the McIntire School of Commerce.
Elzinga, a highly respected economist who received the University's highest honor in 1992, The Thomas Jefferson Award, has made no secret of his opinions about the current President's policies. In 2009, he was one of 200 economists who signed a newspaper ad opposing the administration's stimulus bill, an ad funded by the libertarian-leaning Cato Institute.
"Is it really necessary to schedule an exam at that time?" Bill Lucy wonders.
Professor Elzinga did not respond to requests for comment. However, the Hook has learned that he has recently re-scheduled the exam for November 13.
"I think we can thank Hurricane Sandy for that, though," says Rachel Lucy.
If there is little official UVA sympathy for the alleged Election Day voting woes of its students, spokesperson Wood claims the University has "not received, to my knowledge, one complaint about the election and having to work around academic schedules."
She also has some stern advice for those who think exams and and assignments pose obstacles to voting.
"If students want to exercise their right to vote, then they need to take the personal responsibility that goes with it– which is finding the time to do it," says Wood. "When they graduate and move into the real work-a-day world, no one is going to give them a day off to vote."
Indeed, this election year, that could be a big responsibility.
62 comments
UVA students, welcome to adulthood. You actually have to prioritize your time and plan your day.
It's a shame these kids can't sleep until 2 pm, roll out of bed for their exam, and then be guaranteed a ride to their polling place. They may have to actually wake up early to accomplish their civic duty.
"Fourth-year" UVA student Rachel Lucy sounds very entitled and spoiled. She's whining about her college education and how difficult it is to go to her polling place and wait in line just like (*SHUDDER*) everybody else? Then she has the gall to mention those that die in foreign countries for the right to vote?
WOW. This woman has some serious growing up to do. So her dad is a prof at UVA and (wouldn't do you know it) agrees that she shouldn't be inconvenienced. How about teaching your child that the world does not in fact revolve around her convenience?
Right on Carol Wood. If these students actually want to be taken seriously as adults, they should assume the responsibilities of adulthood. Other adults have full time jobs, not one exam scheduled at 5:30 pm.
My advice? Grow up and stop whining. Of course, it couldn't be that this student is simply unprepared for this exam and is looking for an excuse, ANY excuse, to reschedule it?
You have ALL DAY to vote UVa students and you want to complain about the last 90 minutes. Really?? Virginia's polling hours begin at 6 a.m. and close at 7 p.m. This is the type of nonsense that makes UVa students look like son's and daughters of the overprivileged, unready for the real world. While it's not true of all students this overshadows those who will simply vote when they don't have classes.
Watching the victims of Sandy talk about going to the polls and preparing for elections on TV makes the story look even more tone deaf. Get up early for once if it's so darn important.
Why not simply loosen the early voting requirements. Why should you have to vote in a set, albeit 13 hour window?
Carol Wood hit the nail on the head. The polls open at 6am and close at 7pm. Even in a presidential election year, it should not take an hour to vote, including travel and anticipated wait time
And Virginia now has 17 (that's 17) reasons under which you can vote absentee.
As said above, in the real world, no one is going to give you a day off to vote. I fail to see how classes or exams impede the freedom of vote. Ms. Lucy, find something else to whine about.
Reschedule the exam for Monday. That will teach the whiny little b$stards.
boy you guys got it rough. I'm from PA. In my day you couldn't even buy a drink on election day. Now that was rough.
Nearly spewed soda all over my keyboard when I read Liberty University referred to as an "institution of higher learning".
That's rich.
Logan, they have - you can vote early if you wish again - that would take some planning because the registrars office isn't opened 24/7.
Truly, I do not know why with technology as it is one could not have "on-line" voting but there is something about the experience of going to the polls, telling those outside you already know who you are voting for and don't need their input or sample ballots, going in and waiting your turn to push that button.
Agreed that Ms. Lucy needs to manage her time more efficiently as do many students. It is your right to vote but that doesn't mean that everyone should clear the schedule of your other responsibilities. Kudos to all the single parents out there who not only vote, but go to work and juggle their kids that day since most in this area will be out of school and need alternative care during the day.
Ms Lucy you have listened too long to the entitled rants of your tenured father. Your only hope may be a life of academic pursuits, sheltered from the real life the rest of us live everyday
The regulations for absentee voting in Virginia are actually pretty strict (http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/absenteevoting.html)
I am guessing most of them would not be able to qualify if they are set to vote in c-ville.
Personally, I am not a huge fan of online voting at present, but I do think they should remove all restrictions on absentee voting.
What percentage of UVA students are EVER up at 7am on a TUESDAY? 5%?
If they cannot make the time to vote then I suppose the taxpayers should not find a way to pay the 8k per student subsidy the state pays for each of them.
crybabies....
Maybe this should be another type of test for Ms. Lucy: if you're adult enough to solve this time management conundrum, then you should be allowed to vote. As it is, she sounds way too immature and whiny. If I were her parents, I'd be ashamed to have raised such a helpless creature.
It's disheartening to read such vitriol directed at this young woman. And, you miss the point. It's not that the world has to stop for college students to be able to vote. The article is talking about how colleges & universities convey to their students the importance of this act of citizenship. Many employers allow for some flexibility on election day to encourage employees to vote. The discretionary scheduling of a major exam at 5:30 on election day is a deliberate act intended to discourage students from voting--it's that simple. As spokesperson for UVA, Ms. Wood's dismissive "just grow up" comments are quite disappointing and hopefully don't reflect the views of most of the UVA community.
Three things.
1. Kenneth Elzinga "was one of 200 economists who signed a newspaper ad opposing the administration's stimulus bill, an ad funded by the libertarian-leaning Cato Institute." Yet, virtually every academic study on the stimulus says that it worked, and it worked well. And this guy is teaching economics? At UVa?
2. Larry Sabato has Obama trailing Romney by "a hair" but most other polls put Obama up. For example, Five Thirty Eight has Obama up by a point or more, and the CBS/NYT/Quinnipiac has Obama up buy a point as well. It seems that Romney leads in the Rasmussen (a "conservative-leaning polling group") and Fox polls (can Fox tell the truth about anything?).
3. Yeah, people –– including students –– should take "personal responsibility" for voting...but state and local governments, and institutions of higher learning (and their spokespersons) should be doing everything possible to encourage MORE voting by more people because popular sovereignty is the very essence of democratic governance.
Really? I'm sorry, but if you are going to whine to a news reporter about how difficult it is to both vote and take a college exam at 5:30, without realizing how privileged you are to both be in college and have the right to vote at all, then you deserve the resultant vitriol.
Please don't tell us what the article is about. The article speaks for itself and isn't about any one subject, but many. The sense of entitlement expressed by this young woman, and the reinforcement she receives by her father is definitely one of the subjects of this article. It may not have been the intention of this young woman and her father to lay bare what an incredibly pampered upbringing she obviously has had, but when you go whining to the newspaper, you don't really get to complain when people react to your words and deeds.
Local and state governments do plenty to encourage voting. Schools are closed and used as polling places, for example.
But an exam at 5:30 pm is hardly a hardship. This woman is extremely lucky, but she doesn't realize it because she's apparently been raised to believe that an inconvenience to her is a matter of utmost importance. Indeed, she conflates the scheduling of this exam to the livelihood of millions of people:
"My first thought was that this exam shouldn't be allowed," says fourth-year UVA student Rachel Lucy. "It seems unethical.
"We live in a state in which a handful of votes may decide the election, and this election will affect the lives of millions of people," says Lucy, noting several friends share her concerns.
What utter hogwash. She should have had a second thought before she ran to the newspaper with this item of incredible importance.
I would imagine that 100 years ago there was a farmhand that borrowed his employers horse to go vote who had to be back by 5:30 to milk the cows, feed the pigs and stack the firewood before he went to bed.
Get a grip.
To me it comes down to a simple question:
Do we want everyone to vote, or just people that are willing to work and put effort towards the act of voting? To extend that, should people have some level of knowledge before they are allowed to vote?
As one who frequently votes absentee, I can tell you the requirements are not so strict. You obtain the needed forms or download them, mail them in and stipulate your intended absence, fill out the ballot when you receive it and have anyone sign the witness space(notary not needed), and pop it in the mail. Easier than voting in person....
Isn't the point of this article more about the difficulties and obstacles in place that prevent or impede people from exercising their right to vote, and less about how "privileged and entitled U.Va. students are" according to Hook readers? Perhaps the point is that single mothers and people in the "real world" shouldn't have to be lauded for somehow finding a way to vote. It should be a norm that any and every citizen who wants to cast a vote be able to do so and, more importantly, our civic structures should actively encourage people to do so. One such structure is the University or academy. Academic policies should be encouraging civic engagement and participation and inviting students to become involved in the society to which they will soon be expected to contribute. Scheduling exams on Election Day do the exact opposite, and promote the idea that there are things more important than taking ownership of your political system and governance--an exam this year, a job five year from now, etc. Rather than inculcate political apathy in youth, we should be holding our Universities to a higher standard: a standard promoting an understanding of the importance of political participation. I believe that's Miss Lucy's point, and it's a point that should resonate with any and all of us who comprehend the vital importance of a vibrant civil society to the American experiment and democratic governance.
I'm already voting for several extra people who don't want to waste their day. do the same!!
I appreciate Denny's comment but I have to say if Miss Lucy wants to encourage people to vote, perhaps she and other like minded people could start a way to encourage people to vote AND provide a way for them to get there. While I disagree with Professor Elzinga's economic point of view, I really don't think posting an exam on Election Day is his way of sticking it to Obama. Denny, I'd like to be high minded about Miss Lucy's point of view, but it does seem to be whiny and self-centered for a certain group -- her fellow classmates. I know of several students who work several jobs, go to classes and I'm sure if they wanted to vote, they'd do it. One of my friends drove two hours one way from a job site to his home to vote and drove back to work -- that's how working people do it when they are highly motivated. I'm sure if the students were really motivated, they can find a way. I always voted absentee in college and it was not that hard and I lived in the dark days before the Internet and PDFs.
Ms. Lucy please take a moment to read this article on how people with REAL problems are going to vote on Tuesday. http://atr.rollcall.com/chris-christie-says-new-jersey-is-ready-to-vote-...
Meanwhile...
Ms. Lucy didn't come "whine" to me. I asked for her opinion and she gave it to me, with her name attached to it. That takes courage. Anonymously bashing someone on a comment board, not so much.
I don't believe she was saying that voting and taking an exam on the same day was too difficult, she was questioning the motives of a professor who schedules major exams on election day, and critical of a University she thinks doesn't actively encourage civic engagement on election day.
The question for Ms. Lucy was not that obstacles to voting on a University campus are too difficult or insurmountable, but whether or not they should be there at all.
Dave
1) It doesn't take courage to give your opinion if you believe in it and are willing to stand up for your beliefs.
2) I wonder if it was an exam on african american studies if the same hoolpa would have been raised.
3) as to your question about whether obstacles should be there at all ,they actually SHOULD be there so that students can learn proper respect for the voting process. Contrary to all the people who want to get even the uninformed out to vote for who they con them into voting for, these kids should be taught to have a thirst for the civic process.
4) The reasonable presumption from reading the article is that the people at the Obama campaign office complained to the Hook about what they see as unfairness. That makes them ripe for rebuttals. It is exactly that she doesn't think there should be any obstacles there "at all" that people are attacking her. In my opinion the attacks are not only justified but important to the debate because it is a very good example of the "entitlement" society (and its consequences) that has an awful lot to do with this entire election.
Ponce De leon,
1) Huh? Isn't doesn't take courage to stand up for what you believe in?
2) I don't see what the subject of the class has to do with anything.
3) So we should have obstacles to voting?
4) Wrong
5) Congrats on at least presenting an argument.
1) It does not take courage to stand up for what you believe in because you KNOW deep down in your very heart and soul that you are correct in your thought. It does not take "courage" to pull someone out of a burning building. that is why true heros say they never gave their own personal safety a second thought.
2)The fact that you don't see what the subject (actually the professor) has to do with simply shows your liberal bias is very very deep.
3 )No we should not have "obstacles" to voting but we should not bring the voting booths door to door so as not to "inconvience" people who think that their vote is more important than anybody elses. (see the reference to the vicims of the hurricane above) I guess the crux of this entire debate is to what constitutes an "obstacle" . Voting also has an incumbent responsibility to understand the issues. I suppose we should cancel classes for a week so that some of these kids can get caught up to speed?
4 )You can call it "wrong" on a factual basis but you cannot call it wrong from a readers perspective. YOU are the one who wrote the headline placing the professors policies into question and YOU are the one that made the assertion that complaints orginated at the Obama campign offices on the mall and then went on for a few paragraphs about the situation before moving onto the history of the situation. I think that had the complaints from the Obama office not been brought to light there may not have even been a story.
I suppose other readers can comment on their takeaway as to my presumptions.
5) thank you.
Much ado about nothing.
"In a broader sense, Lucy believes that holding class at all, let alone a test, should not happen on election day. "
Just another whiney student. It doesn't take all day to vote, the polls are open from early in the morning until 7:00 pm, and you can always cast an absentee ballot if you have planned ahead. Grow up. The entire job force of the US doesn't get to take the day off, and some day, if you learn anything in college and land a job, you will have to learn to cope with juggling two things in your life. I know that sounds like a burden to you, but if you really believe in democracy and the importance of voting, surely you can figure it out.
I attended a university where exams, except finals, usually happened during regular class time. Does this economics class normally meet at 5:30 on Tuesdays?
If so, I suspect the scheduling is more about a professor who looked at the calendar and felt it made the most sense, given the rest of the semester's schedule, for the test to take place on this day. If the class normally meets on other days or times and he scheduled it for this day and time, I think Ms. Lucy has a point.
Many people (including me) will have to rearrange their days and get up early or make other extra effort to vote. I doubt there are too many UVA students whose days are so full that they can't find some window between 6 a.m. and 7 p.m. However, UVA should encourage its faculty to be flexible when there are special cases.
Dave McNair wrote: The question for Ms. Lucy was not that obstacles to voting on a University campus are too difficult or insurmountable, but whether or not they should be there at all.
Your argument and your article are based on a false assumption: that having an exam on election day is an OBSTACLE to voting. It is a minor scheduling problem which is only an obstacle if a voter chooses to make it one by not planning ahead, being organized, and recognizing that voting is a right AND a privilege. The article seems to suggest that these students have been "disenfranchised" by their conservative professors and the outcome of the election may be altered because of it. Sorry, but it would seem that the readers here just aren't buying it. I'm sure that if these same talented and intelligent students had to take an exam on the same day that they had important functions, like an Obama rally in the middle of the afternoon, or a lacrosse practice, they would manage to do both without much trouble.
here is some info that Ms Lucy might want to see before she heads off to vote...
President Obama in his own words....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8R5GvwUFU8&feature=player_embedded
I don't particularly understand why a student showing interest in voting is criticized as being "whinny" and "entitled" when so many of her peers express open apathy to voting. Even if you do not agree with her proposed method of getting her peers to go to the polls on Election Day, I do not believe that warrants such vicious comments when no one here even knows Ms. Lucy personally. Again, I praise her for seeking a way to help facilitate student voting, which should be considered admirable regardless of her personal background.
She said that she doesn't think the exam should be allowed on that day and that her professor's actions in scheduling it seemed "unethical".
It's not about expressing an interest in voting, it's about accusing a professional of unethical behavior and suggesting that the entire class schedule be changed to accommodate her convenience.
In my book that is not only immature and self-centered but, yes, whiny.
She has nothing to complain about. If her co students don't vote and it swings the election it will not be this prof's fault. It will be these studennts' fault.
We had a horse named "whinny". Then we shot it.
"They're taking the closeness seriously over at the Obama headquarters in Charlottesville. After fielding complaints from UVA students–"
Ironic that its reported only the Obama campaign is fielding complaints? Looking for someone else to bail them out and solve their so-called problems of how to squeeze in a vote in a 13 hour block as they cram for an exam that has likely been on their syllabus for weeks.
I'm pretty sure profs don't reschedule Friday exams across the board just because there is a Thursday night football game.
Unbelievable. Time to grow up and learn about personal responsibility and time management. I doubt UVa profs will be willing to schedule a parent//teacher conference so mommy and daddy can complain.
The UVA professors (who are well known to be right leaning and for Romney) are trying to suppress the student vote (who are well known to be for Obama). If there is a major exam at 5:30 pm then how is anyone going to the polls before that.
Exam or not, it's a safe bet the UVa kids will find ways to manage others of their priorities into their election day schedules. Just drop by 2-for-Tuesdays at Wildwind\gs and see for yourself.
Faculty kid becomes the mouthpiece for her father's liberal bias. Nothing to see here. Maybe if she'd taken Econ 101 before she was a fourth year she'd have a different perspective. An exam as an "obstacle to voting"? Come on. I have to go to work tomorrow, but I'm not screaming about being disenfranchised by my employer. Grow up, Lucy family.
The "Obama children" better get a reality check or they will be as helpless as a kitten in a snowstorm once mommy and daddy run out of money. They are worshipping a man with no business experience who keeps promising 100 gallons of milk out of a 5 gallon bucket.
If they cannnot find the time between 6 am and 5 pm to vote then they obviously do not care enough about the country to make the sacrifice.
I wonder what these kids grandparents would say about this atrocious inconvienence. I imagine they would roll their eyes and ask themselves where they went wrong.
Bill,
You can disagree with Obama's policies, ut the fact remains that he was paying his bills as an adult with his education and skill set, unlike many of the Republican whites living through Appalachia. He came from a pretty low level income, got an education, paid off his student loans, and is now a much bigger tax payer than his parents were.
One does not need to be a business-person or a veteran to be a successful leader, though if those are qualifications you supposedly seek, you would not be voting for either Ryan - an SS recipient who never worked in the private sector, or Romney - who has never run a business in his life. No, Romney did not run a business, he was a market speculator as a true Conservatvie like Stockman clearly points out. Romney ain't no Bill Gates.
That you will vote for RR no matter what against Obama is a clear sign that in spite of the brains I know you have, when it comes to politics it's all about culture and knee jerk reactions, not what's right for the country or solving problems. In fact, in spite of the right wing claims about military leadership, I know you will vote for the empty VE graduate suit Hurt instead of the accomplished bi-partisan General John Douglass who worked for Republicans and Democrats.
You, and PDL, and meanwhile, and all the rest of the regular right wingers and your reactions against a single UVA student who thinks voting should be available to citizens of this country is as pathetic and ugly as it comes. Yeah, she doesn't come off like she should, perhaps, and she and other students often do have more flexible schedules..... but it IS a crime when ANYONE in this country is expected to take several hours out of their day to cast a vote. We aren't talking about registration, we are talking casting it.
No, casting votes should not be all about what is convenient for white male professionals and retirees- you know like me - while the rest of the country that makes it go are ignored.
You should ALL be ashamed of yourselves.
Old timer
It is a CRIME to expect a college kid to find time out of their day to vote? What a joke.
Regardless of who wins, this "me generation" will be left of the workforce as employers will gladly hire or outsource to people who are not so self indulgent.
These kids think suffering is having to wait outside in the cold for Starbucks to open and then getting an eyeroll from the 7 dollar an hour Barrista when they cry a river about how hard it is to use thier iphone with gloves on.
this is who some of you are voting for...
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2012/11/05/what-president-obama-really...
Bill,
"It is a CRIME to expect a college kid to find time out of their day to vote? What a joke."
I guess you think college students standing in line for 7+ hours in Florida or Ohio is a joke. Gee, might mean even you wouldn't show up. Not all college students in the US are kids. Many are adults retraining because their job was shipped to China by Romney.
I know I know, it's only a violation of civil liberties when it's a Republican who can't have access to what they want, or their Rep, or their voting box. It's only fraud if it's ACORN, or Tom Perriello having his office in an inconvenient place.
Otherwise it's just whiny kids who are self entitled.
Can't look in the mirror in the morning can you? That's why you throw as much as you can at the other team.
Projection.
This article is not about college kids waiting in line for 7hours, this is about college kids who feel "oppressed" because a professor scheduled and exam at 5:30 pm when the polls open at 6:00am and they have the ability to absentee ballot. (as does Ohio and Florida)
and maybe if those people who had to be retrained because an 11 year old cambodian girl took thier job had actually gotten a real skillset in the first place they wouldn't need to be in college at age 35. (But they can vote abesentee also)
It is not a violation of someones civil liberties to expect them to work study or take a test on election day. It is a violation of civil responsibilites to not suck it up and make it happen.
Perhaps we should provide "binkys" for all the people who have to wait in line like they probably did in 1850 when people had to ride horses through the rain and snow to vote in an unheated barn school or (oh no ) church.
They need to get out and vote for obama because they certainly don't seem to have what it takes to survive in the easiest country in the world to thrive in without a mouth on a governemt teat.
Bill,
The article might be about a UVA student frustrated that they have a major exam on the eve of elction day, but neither you or all your like thinkers responded as if it were a local article. You responded with knee jerk nasty comments label all students as whiny lazy people who won't work for a living and are dependent on their parents and don't have skill sets. That is what I was responding to.
"and maybe if those people who had to be retrained because an 11 year old cambodian girl took thier job had actually gotten a real skillset in the first place they wouldn't need to be in college at age 35. "
Maybe. Or maybe they are a retired Sgt. 1st class whose skill set revolves around keeping your self-entitled butt safe while you spin real estate deals and pay at a lower tax rate than they do.
Of course, they could just be those semi-literate semi skilled white folks populating red states who are responsible for the increased demand for food stamps and welfare. Too bad they aren't capable of getting retrained, but don;t worry, they will vote knee jerk GOP like you do even if they are sucking off of the government teat. I realize only Republicans can have welfare. For everyone else, it's supposed to be the competitive trained pull yourself up by your bootstraps market.
Obama is going to win. Get used to another 4 years. Because those whiners are getting out and voting. And if the DNC wants to pay to get a bus to get them to their polling station, so be it.
Bill,
I guess you missed this bipartisan bit:
"Back before the 2008 Presidential election, UVA was in the news when 2,723 people signed a petition organized by student Democrats and Republicans."
Republican students made the same request. See why your Obama statements are so nakedly knee jerk?
Old Timer:
I'm not a right-winger! I'm a complete Obama supporter. I plan on voting for him, and expect him to win.
What did I say to make you think otherwise? Talk about knee-jerk reactions!
You can be an Obama supporter and still recognize that this student is not taking responsibility for her own time management, and that this professor is not the embodiment of evil.
What does it say about our body politic that culture has become nothing more than opinions?
BTW, if you read the article, you'll see that the prof has rescheduled the exam.
So all opinions expressed regarding the man and his supposed politics and inflexibility should be modulated accordingly.
looks like 60 minutes helped the benghazi terrorism debate
Why didn't they release this the day after the last debate?
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/11/05/Proof-Obama-Refused-t...
Bill, if Behghazi is such a big deal, please explain why to me. I'm not getting its significance. Especially not getting what its significance is in relation to this article.
FYI
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/06/1156794/-Chrysler-gives-workers...
Wonderin
In the last debate Obama claimed he called the attack in libya an "act of terrorism "and he in fact did use those words in the speech in a different context when reffering to the many attacks of the previous day. HOWEVER in this newly released taped inteview taken 5 hours AFTER that speech Steve Kroft asked Obama directly why he avoided calling it terriorsm with regard sto libya... instead of defending himself (I did call it an act of terror)he answered that he wasn't sure what it was.... The point being he ACKNOWLEDGEDt hat he had not specifcally called it a terrorist attack and the tape is there for all to see. The crime here is WHY 60 minutes did not release this tape the day after the debate where obama claimed that he called it a terrorist attacka nd only released it two days before the election where it gets them off the hook for witholding it but held it long enough that the ameican people couldn't see it before they voted. It would have been the scoop of the election and should not have been witheld.
Dave Mcnair.
Romney said that if we bailout the car industry it will "change the american car industry as we know it" Well, just like he predicted, Chrysler took billions of us taxpayer money and then sold themselves to FIAT who now owns controlling interest in the company(58.5%)and is now building factories in china to produce jeeps to be sold in china and PARTS TO BE EXPORTED TO THE UNITED STATES for installation in US jeeps. The reason Chrysler is adding jobs here is because the car market is coming back and they are increasing production on existing lines. In a few short years you will see that the imports from china by chrysler to chrysler will increase 100 fold as they set up production there. Just because they did not "close" a plant here does not mean they are not outsourcing parts.for next years cars. As for GM they are establishing partnerships with the chinese government and already derive 70% of thier income overseas.... and not only did they get billions from the us taxpayers but Obama also allowed them to skip out on taxes by writing off losses that other companes could not write off. Romney was right... they should have gone bankrupt and when the price was right and the unions were out someone would have stepped in and bought them. The unions were the reason investors were not stepping up to buy GM. Nobody wanted those thugs running the show.
As for Chysler giving the unions the day off, it just sounds like an italian company trying to influence US elections.
citation on the GM tax deal
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/05/18/what-gm-bailout-really-cost-am...
citation GM
http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/is-gm-becoming-china-motors/
Here is the article that Romney quoted when he was accused of "lying"
So it appears that Chrysler saw the writing on the wall and changed their story to save their butt... (third paragrah...)
http://washingtonexaminer.com/jeep-an-obama-favorite-looks-to-shift-prod...
Bill you still haven't said why the Benghazi thing is in any way important. I guess that's what I was asking for. Lots of noise about nothing is all I can see. Why does this matter at all? There must be SOME reason why it bothers you so.
Well the reasons that the entire situation bothers me in no particualr order are:
1) Obama did not distort the truth, he LIED in front of 50 million people in a fashion that shows how little integrity he actually has. This is him denying statements like Bill clinton denied sex with the fat chick.
2) An Ambassador DIED because he was denied Security that was requested on numerous occasions and not only was the Ambassador let down but Obama doesn't even accept responsibility for Honoring the guys sacrifice by blaming it on a video as if the death could in no way have been prevented.
3) The direct obfuscation at the highest levels of government should be as unacceptable now as they were in 1972 when Nixon covered up his malfeasance.
4) It is about honesty and integrity and Obama has shown neither. Had he come out in the Rose garden and Confirmed that we were attacked by terrorists and that we will not only bring people to justice but will "punish" anyone and everyone culpable and that he will absolutely find out exactly what happended and show it all to the american people PRONTO instead of trying to whitewash it and put it off until after the election then he would have not been judged so harshly.
My question to YOU is why when we have four people killed on American soil (as a consulate is) in an undefended location in arguably the most at risk consulate in the world are you not disturbed that the President is lying to the american public, allowing his minnions to lie to the american public and then when he is caught double down on the lies and grin like a first grader who hid behind the door while his secretary of State takes the heat.?
5) Perhaps Hillary took the heat because of a backroom deal where she agreed to do it in exchange for a 2016 endorsement for President (and also because if he loses tonight he will be back on 2016 and she NEEDS him out of the way) (perhaps that is why Bill is on the stump so much even though Obama tossed Hillary under the bus)
Sorry Bill you had your chance to sway me before I went to the polls. I was looking for something of substance in your last minute revelations, but finding nothing there, I voted for Obama again.
Weren't you one of those folks saying that Obama couldn't really claim to have taken Bin Laden out because lots of other guy really made it happen. Now he's personally responsible for day to day security at one of many thousand government installations?
Why would you ever expect a direct clear answer to a question about a national security issue like what happened in Benghazi. Do you really want to give every opportunity possible to people who would do the US and its interests harm. Why do you hate America so?
The main reason why an exam should not be scheduled on an election day is NOT because UVA students need time/ cannot stand in line for hours to vote/ cannot prioritize things BUT to promote the importance of civic duties to students - many of them are about to vote for their first time. If the election day is on a Sunday or Saturday, it would be easy for everyone to vote. In general, not just academic but all kinds of structures should encourage people to vote. Its just that simple, I don't get why it is hard to understand and why there is a need to post aggressive comments against a student who just said her opinion when many of you chose to interpret what she meant in a wrong way.
Some of you believe that these kids in college, who have already gone through at least 12 years of schooling and are all at least 18 years old, need some type of action by UVA and its professors to "promote the importance of civic duty." Really? They don't already know the importance of civic duty? What in the world are they learning during those 12 pre-college years? And if you say they don't don't understand the importance of civic duty, my question is: Why not? Are they really that far behind in their knowledge of and appreciation for civic duty? And what about the professor? Some posters argue here that Ms. Lucy is being unfairly criticized for merely offering her opinions. Ok, that's not unreasonable. But what about the professor? Isn't he being unfairly criticized? My gosh, you'd think he was Hitler himself for having an exam at 5:30 p.m. on a day when the polls open at 6:00 a.m. What in the world did he do wrong? Assume that the kids could actually vote and take an exam, all in the same day? Enough of the complaints. He did nothing remotely wrong. And as for Ms. Lucy, we'll respect her opinion, but no one disenfranchised her on November 6th. Not even close. I suspect that people are bothered that the professor signed a petition that took a different view than Obama.
It was too cold out to vote. They should vote in the summer.
The problem with any sort of structure "that encourages people to vote" is that any such structure is going to be biased against someone. Nursing homes and hospitals need employees at work 24/7. Media outlets will always need reporters at work on election day. Businesses like grocery stores and restaurants won't give their employees Christmas Day off, so they're certainly not going to give them election day off unless they were required.
After hearing about some precincts in Virginia with lines as long as three hours and talking to people who were unable to vote because of that, I do have a little more sympathy for Ms. Lucy's position, however.
I had to work 8:30-5, there was no line at Clark at 6 when I voted. With people voting in tents in N.J. and people waiting 7 hours in Florida, etc. It just seems very Valley girl/boy of us to say we need the whole day off here in Alb. & C-ville in order to vote.