Bypass be gone: It's not too late to undo bad idea
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Six schools are close to the path of the proposed bypass.VDOT
66 Seconds
By Jack Trammell
Rigged polls. Midnight votes. Politicians calling each other names and contradicting themselves in public. Use of the state legislative process to punish opponents. Bureaucratic circumvention of the required or recommended public discourse. Contractors getting rich on no bid or overrun-laden design bid projects. Silence in the major media outlets. If this sounds like a troubled third world country, worthy of another Sacha Baron Cohen movie, think again— it is the current central Virginia battle over the Western Bypass in Charlottesville. Sixty-six seconds (the estimated time savings) has never been so controversial or expensive.
In Virginia, history does matter, and very few people inside or outside the region realize or care to acknowledge that the current bypass war actually dates to 1957. Fifty-six years ago, a hired consultant recommended a northern route for Virginia’s section of Interstate 64, and a regional war between Lynchburg and Charlottesville politicians and businessmen broke out that was never satisfactorily resolved. Although the state recommended the southern route through the Danville/Lynchburg corridor, federal highway authorities ultimately overrode state politics and mandated that the highway run through/beside Charlottesville. Ever since that time, politicians, businessmen, and even faculty and students in the Danville/Lynchburg areas, the “Lynchburg Lobby,” blame the interstate decision for 50 years of lackluster economic growth and being left out of larger transportation initiatives; Charlottesville is a favored city.
This certainly did not stop improvements from being completed on more southerly sections of U.S. 29; both Danville and Lynchburg have highly utilized Route 29 bypasses. There has also been a longstanding unofficial plan to consider the Route 29 corridor for a new north-south interstate (North Carolina and Virginia made a joint agreement in 1997 concerning Interstate 785, which would take over much of Route 29 between Greensboro, North Carolina and Danville, Virginia). This road has not come to pass— yet… And heading north on 29 toward lucrative seaboard markets trucks now hit snarls in Charlottesville (or so bypass proponents have argued), along the northern part of what could be a further extended new interstate.
The Lynchburg Lobby, supported by Governor McDonnell and Secretary of Transportation Sean Connaughton, and including such figures as State Senator Steve Newman, Commonwealth Transportation Board member Mark Peake, and even Liberty University’s Jerry Falwell Jr., has promised to break ground on the western bypass project before the end of the McDonnell administration, in spite of myriad complications and outright problems. Charlottesville area residents, however, have been slow to realize the degree to which the bypass has become an outright political and economic war.
The publicity campaign coming from the southern direction has been ongoing for decades, targeting highway authorities and sympathetic leaders in the Charlottesville area to get a western bypass completed. The Danville and Lynchburg chambers of commerce have engaged citizens in repeated letter writing campaigns, and even used pressure from arenas like higher education, where an administrator at Liberty University emailed all students and staff to stack an online Charlottesville poll in favor of the bypass (more scientific polls give the anti-bypass supporters a majority in the Charlottesville area). There was even legislation passed in the General Assembly, later modified, that specifically targeted the Charlottesville area (“those people” as the Secretary of Transportation recently referred to them) for fiscal punishment if local officials put roadblocks up. Lynchburg and Danville advocates often attend public bypass meetings in Charlottesville and frequently pack online surveys. “Nothing but excuses from Charlottesville,” a Lynchburg editorial complained. “A never ending fight,” a Danville editorial lamented.
Some see it as democracy in action; others see it as a declaration of regional war. Many see it as a threat to libertarian principles of local autonomy and a blow to notions of fiscal responsibility (some internal VDOT documents estimate that the bypass may exceed $420 million in cost; the author’s estimate is that wrangling over the bypass including right-of-way purchase, legal fees, VDOT expenses, etc., may now exceed half a billion in 2013 dollars since 1972, and still of course no bypass).
Leaders in Charlottesville cannot claim to have made a solution easier. In a bizarre, unplanned and unannounced midnight vote in 2011 to renew the project, the Albemarle Board of Supervisors added renewed fire to the war under circumstances that are almost as obscure as the distant politics of the “Lynchburg Lobby” in the 1950s. Since then, core sampling, surveying, and other pre-construction activity has noticeably picked up throughout the proposed construction area.
“This bypass has already embedded all the regulatory approvals of the federal government,” Connaughton emphasized in a recent interview. “We have an officially accepted and approved record of the decision which allows you to move forward on the contract. That has been litigated and found to be valid.” Connaughton plans to break ground on the bypass before a change in administration.
But there is hardly celebration as the winning bidder Skanska finds they now have untenable designs at both bypass terminuses. For the next six months, the war over sixty-six seconds is only likely to intensify, and Danville and Lynchburg remain off the interstate grid.
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Jack Trammell is a freelance reporter based in Mineral, Virginia. He can be reached at [email protected].
107 comments
This "bypass" is a cruel joke, an enormous waste of taxpayer money for a road that's a product of the worst type of back room politicking, and, as an added bonus, provides practically no benefit for travelers along the 29n corridor. And I'm not "anti-bypass," I'm anti THIS quote-unquote bypass. Anyone with the slightest modicum of common sense can see that a PROPER bypass needs to run from 64 to north of Ruckersville. You know, like the one they built around Lynchburg. Instead we're getting one that runs from UVA to Forest Lakes. That's got to be a joke, right. If we're going to build it, why not build it right? I've yet to hear a half way reasonable answer to that simple question from the pro-bypass crowd.
Secondly, please note Ken Boyd's prize for this terrible terrible terrible waste of money. He got his house redistricted from Creigh Deed's district (unwinnable for Boyd) to Rob Bell's district (cupcake win for Boyd). Seriously, they moved HALF of Key West into a different district as a reward for this shameful bypass scam. That's how the big boys play things. Ken Boyd blows half a billion dollars of our money and gets his long desired ticket to Richmond punched. Who cares if the "bypass" changes 29n from an F rating to an F rating, the powers that be get what they want and that's what's important here.
Only saves 66 seconds, it's easy to see that Jack Trammell has never tried to use the "Best Buy" ramp to get on the existing by-pass on any week day afternoon, with traffic stopping in front of the old Sperry bldg you inch your way toward the ramp. If you are lucky you may only sit thru the light at Hydraulic twice. As it is currently planned the people who would gain the most are the UVA employees who live North of Charlottesville,
Why not just improve all the bad interchanges?
@IBA, yes, 66 seconds. That's VDOT's estimate of the time this new road will save through traffic. Quite the deal for a mere half billion. 29's traffic problems are local. Take the BestBuy ramp you're complaining about for instance. $30 million fixes it (that's the cost of a second turn lane from Hydraulic south and a second merge lane between the BestBuy entrance and the Barracks exit). Instead we're about to blow $420+ million (again, that's VDOT's own number, not the BS lowball bid that Skanska is being sued over) on a road that will not help local traffic at all. Ken Boyd needs to get voted out of office, and the democrats really need to find someone besides Cynthia Neff to run against him.
When I read the first paragraph of this article, I seriously thought I was reading an article on the Bi-County Parkway (BCP) in Northern Virginia. As I read on and realized this was about the bypass in Charlottesville, I was struck by the similarities of the issues between the two projects. There was only one difference, I saw no reference here to the Commonwealth Transportation Board (CTB), who has deeply involved themselves in the BCP project (of course, the NoVA CTB rep is a developer himself, which might explain that). It is sad that our state has to deal with such corruption and thuggery. Just look at what is also happening in Hampton Roads. All I can say to you folks in Charlottesville is don't stop fighting, do not give up.
The problem with the BCP part of the proposed North-South Corridor is that as approved (no HOV/HOT lanes, no expansion to six lanes on the existing 234 Bypass) actually adds time to the transit from I-95 to Rte 7. How could this be possible you might ask? You add 60k vehicles per day without increasing capacity - you spend $2B that is needed elsewhere to create more gridlock and congestion in NOVA.
These two opposition groups and their elected officials need to band together with those opposing the P3 tunnel projects in the Hampton area to stop Sec Connaughton, the CTB and VDOT who have completely been corrupted at the expense of billions of tax payer funds.
This whole project sickens me to the core. The 'politicians' that arranged this POS to be brought back to life are amoral, low life scumbags. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Disgusting. You should all have your heads examined. And then you should be convicted of treason against the people who elected you. You should be impeached and have your ability to run for elected office revoked PERMANENTLY. Rot in prison you f*&&^#%$s. (It was really hard to contain my language here. . .)Whew! Have a nice day.
yeah, just more wasted money like the $9 million for bricks downtown, how about fix the Belmont bridge & get the sidewalks up to code?
Build the bypass and get some of this traffic out of the city.
Gus, you were probably one of those people who thought that a Meadowcreek Parkway would reduce traffic on Park Street.
This whole debacle, beginning with the day that the Western option was chosen, reminds me of a sign on the wall of an engineering department. It said, "The greatest talent of an engineer is the ability to recognize a dead horse at the earliest opportunity and then bury it with the least possible ceremony". The failure of those responsible decision makers to adhere to the aforementioned advice is what has gotten us where we are.
The longer we postpone this decision to abort the more difficult and embarrassing it becomes.
It's up to the people of Charlottesville and Albemarle to make sure the Bypass will not happen since its concept is beyond controversial, neither will it solve any traffic congestion. Also very telling that there is plenty of money for highway construction around town, but nothing for replacing the Belmont bridge, traffic easing measures within city limits, expanding safe biking lanes to increase alternative transportation. Again, does this city have any longterm vision on anything? Private developers seem to dictate what is being done in this town and it's a random process at best, hardly benefitting its own citizens despite whatever 'mission statements' by the city. Counting the Landmark skeleton and the impending new Marriott on the corner of Main and McIntire we will have 6! hotels in a half mile stretch on Main street, including two new apartment complexes that cater to Uva students. Students and tourists come first I assume.
As far as building any new bypass, the most logical alternative would be east of town, connecting 64 to 29 in Ruckersville.
There is no way that anything that goes nonstop around 29N from Barracks to Forrest Lakes will only save one 66 seconds. Maybe at midnight if you willing to break the speed limits and get the green lights all the way...
That said, if the boondoggle does not completely bypass Cville today, and its growth far into the future then it is a fial.
But hey, that is what big government is all about. Wasting money and increasing taxes.
That's right Jimi, it'll save people more like twenty to thirty minutes but they just assume libtards will buy into the lie because they love mussells and clams so much. Plus the antihuman globalist exterminist want to prevent it from being built because being stuck in insane traffic leads some people to proclaim, "they're are too many people" and thus make excuses for the genocide that's being wrought against even their own children. It's actually a big part of it. Of course it will be built because now it's more practical (as opposed to twenty years ago when things were cheaper) to bankrupt us so we can more easily be exterminated. Ha ha!
Jimi,
Who says it'll save 66 seconds? VDOT engineers. Who says "no way"? You. Let's try a little mathematical experiment here. It's only about 5.5 miles from Barracks to Forest Lakes. It's also a dead straight shot on 29. The "bypass" on the other hand curves around hill and dale and ends up being about 6.5 miles. To go one extra mile and save MORE that 66 seconds over the course of 5.5 miles you'd have to increase the average travel speed by about 30 mph. It ain't happening, just ask the VDOT engineers.
And lastly, please keep in mind who orchestrated this "big government boondoggle" you're railing against. Kenny Boyd, republican extraordinaire.
6.5 miles at average speed of sixty mph is six minutes thirty seconds. 5.5 miles at current average speed of what is probably a third of that (or less) in heavy rush hour traffic and stop lights is sixteen minutes thirty seconds. That's at least ten minutes. Maybe VDOT factored in the anticipated reduced traffic on 29 in making the comparison of time savings which would be just plain faulty due to the fact that it doesn't exist yet. It would reduce times on both the bypass and on the business route and you can add those up if you'd like without cheating.
Right. Average speed of 60. Good luck with that. First of all, the speed limit on the "bypass" is going to 45, so 60 gets you sighted for reckless driving. Then factor in the time you'll spend at the cluster****s at the lights at either end of it. Re-do your math. You're not going to save 10 minutes over the course of a 5 or 6 mile trip. Ain't happening.
@Do the Math is correct. @Johnny, learn the law before spreading misinformation. 20 mph over is considered reckless, 15 mph is not. That is irrelevant anyway. The current route through 29 has at least 15 stop lights between forest lakes and where the bypass would end, of which more than 75% of them will be red when traveling on it. That means that even though you are only doing 5.5 miles, you are still doing a lot of stop and go driving which, given most of us don't drive Priuses, is horrible for fuel economy. I would rather drive 6.5 mi instead of 5.5 if I am traveling at constant speed, be it 45 mph or 60 mph. They have to implement this bypass, if they can think about it, with ramps and no stop lights for it to have any benefit. @Jimi, you are correct. I have driven the current route at least 100 times since I live in Ruckersville, but I have yet to get all green lights, even at ungodly hours at night.
Fine. Reckless is 20 over not 15 over. A million billion apologies. Have fun trying to average 60 on a road zoned 45. Tell the ACPD I said hi.
Look, there's no need to get bogged down here. None of us need to do the math. VDOT did it already and came up with a savings of 66 seconds. They did that based on real numbers, not fantasy ones like Math's 16.5 minutes on 29 and 60mph on the "bypass."
Anyhow, I'm STILL waiting to hear an answer to the question I asked in my first post. If we're going to build a bypass why not build it right? It OBVIOUSLY needs to run from 64 to north of Ruckersville. Instead we're going to blow half a billion dollars that--according to the people who do this for a living--will save us taxpayers 66 seconds per trip.
I'll ask it once again. If we're going to build it, why not build it right? Anyone? (Now that we've got the reckless driving thing figured out, maybe we can move on to a slightly more important issue....)
Your question is anwerable and your anwer is unquestionable. It's built to fail and it failed to be built. These people do this for a living. You know it and I know it. "The things people do fo monay it's kinda funny" - Shaq
Unanswerable. (The machine did it)
Answer as well. Seriously.
Imagine the millions of dollars spent and kinetically wasted every year by thousands of cars, SUVs, old pickup trucks, hybrid vehicles, Dump Trucks, Cement Mixers, Tow Trucks, Flatbed Trucks, Big Rigs, scooters, Harleys, Crotch Rockets, etc, etc. a day idiling at traffic lights, and air the air pollution they create while idling as well eliminated from the creation of a bypass. $MILLIONS$ A YEAR SAVED AND KEPT OUT OF THE OIL BARONS AND GOVERNMENT TAX COLLECTORS. CLEANER AIR TO BOOT. TIME SAVED IS MORE MILLIONS A YEAR SAVED. QUICKER RESPONSE TIMES IN EMERGENCIES. Of course it will upset the people whose peaceful backyards are ruined and lots more racoons and foxes and deer and squirrels and possums and chipmunks and getting turned into roadkill and pretty butterflies getting smashed into goop against more windsheilds, reducing visibility. It's a tough call.
Oh by the way we need more carbon dioxide in the air. Planet Earth is slowly but surely running out of oxygen at this current time period, causing all sorts of weather disturbances and making it hard to breathe. The ol' plant-human symbiosis, man. You dig?
I should have put owls in there too. I'm sure it upset the one I smashed with my station wagon on my way to work at Making People Smile.
It will be pretty.
@myk...
Chill my friend. I could actually cut and paste your response to this to also respond to...
Social Security...National Health Care...you name it, government screws it up.
I also got a kick out of the writer's reference to the Lynchburg bypass as "highly utilized," as anyone who travels that road frequently sees a constant dearth of vehicles.
Look, this area needs a bypass. The current plan is a joke; those who advocate for north of Ruckersville to just south of I-64 are spot on. Will it happen in my lifetime, probably not. But let's not sling mud at people for backroom deals and political skullduggery. Do you really think any major capital public works project occurs without local pols getting palms greased?
I have two words for you: Bud Schuster
Anyone who thinks the Lynchburg bypass is underutilized just doesn't groc that it just looks that way because all the through traffic just sails through. That's the way a well designed freeway looks in action...
I might have more sympathy for the anti-Bypass crowd if many of the same people trying to fight the Bypass (Dennis Rooker, just to name one) weren't the very same people who shoved the Meadowcreek Parkway down our throats. Many of the same arguments they are now using against the Bypass applied to the Parkway as well. But the Bypass is affecting rich landowners which explains the double standard. And also explains why the media organs that those rich landowners control, like Charlottesville Tomorrow, have been focused so hard on stopping the Bypass.
As we have seen with the MeadowCreek Parkway, new highway construction generates what transportation engineers call "induced traffic." Some 20 years ago The Commission on the Future of Transportation in Virginia" noted that it's "futile exercise" to attempt to build out of congestion because the new roadway always generates more driving than it relieves. Although every new roadway project is different, the rule of thumb is that a 10 percent increase in capacity causes an immediate 4 percent increase in traffic which climbs to 10 percent (or the entire new capacity) in a few, usually five, years with no relief on the previously congested roadways which the new construction was designed to relieve. VDOT's analysis confirms this for the MeadowCreek Parkway and that long-ago commission put it like this, "and around it goes." Attempting to build your way out always makes it worse.
In this case, the "bypass" will not help congestion at all, VDOT notes, even in the first five years as it's mostly (about 90 percent) local traffic on 29N. Instead, it will bring 18-wheelers almost immediately to Hollymead and Forest Lakes. Remember, the state's reasoning, first of all, for spending any money on the bypass is to decrease the amount of time it takes for manufacturers to ship goods to NYC and Boston, hoping that will generate new plants in Lynchburg and Danville. While it's difficult to imagine that saving 66 seconds (or as much as 3 minutes or as little as 51 seconds in other analyses besides VDOT's) in the 10-hour drive from Lynchburg to NYC is in the top 100 reasons for any big business to locate a plant, it might actually happen. More importantly, building this bypass will induce 18-wheel drivers to cut over from I-81and cut about 100 miles off their long, long drive from Mexico to those population centers in NYC, Philly, Boston, D.C. and Baltimore. Remember, the JOB of the 18-wheel driver is to know the best route and every single alternative.
VDOT tells us that 31 percent of the traffic on the NAFTA highway (I-81) are 18-wheelers and that I-81 carries over three times the amount of traffic it is designed for. Daily, there are jam ups on I-81 around Roanoke and some drivers, including some truckers, will decide to cut over at U.S. 460 and, daily, some drivers, including truckers, will cut over at I-64 IF they think there is a faster way through Cville's traffic. That's the sole reason they call this cut through a "bypass," the semantic term "bypass" makes people think of clear sailing, missing congestion. But in this case, the truckers will drop off into Hollymead Town Center traffic, into Forest Lakes and Hollymead subdivision traffic.
Proponents tell us that they'll find another $145 million to push this highway past the airport and make it resemble a bypass after they've spent $300 million plus on this "bypass." Since this is over half of every single dollar coming to the entire nine counties in our Commonwealth Transportation Board district, proponents apparently believe that the other nine counties have no transportation needs and are willing to shoot our wad on a highway which does nothing for congestion, nothing for speed, nothing for safety INSTEAD of spending 1/3 the amount on overpasses at Rio and Hydraulic which, VDOT tells us, will provide much, much more benefit.
build the dam road already.
with all the workers on a $460 million project shouldn't my taxes go down. lot of lunches there
bet you no local workers
ha! ha! Ha! Ha!
Places 29 is a plan that gained UNANIMOUS approval by the Board of Supervisors and it is time we took a good look at this plan again. It is the only plan that will truly do what we need it to do, to move traffic up 29. The current plan needs the addition back of the grade separated interchanges at Hydraulic and Rio (the most dangerous intersection in the county). We need the parallel roads of Hillsdale and Berkmar. This will make the difference. NOT this boondoggle that would get way too close to 6 schools (which studies have shown harmful to our schoolchildren). We protect our kids' health in everyway, except in paying attention to recent health studies that show the negative effect of roads close to where children play outside. The Charlottesville Bypass the Truth Coalition is informing citizens of the important issues on this road. http://www.bypasstruth.com Please pay attention and let's get the "sneaks" out of our local Board of Supervisors. Say GOODBYE to Rodney Thomas and Duane Snow, and next time GOODBYE to Ken Boyd, who masterminded the sneakiness.....and HELLO to Brad Sheffield and Diantha McKeel, as well as Liz Palmer. It is time for an honest change.
Places 29 is a plan that gained UNANIMOUS approval by the Board of Supervisors and it is time we took a good look at this plan again. It is the only plan that will truly do what we need it to do, to move traffic up 29. The current plan needs the addition back of the grade separated interchanges at Hydraulic and Rio (the most dangerous intersection in the county). We need the parallel roads of Hillsdale and Berkmar. This will make the difference. NOT this boondoggle that would get way too close to 6 schools (which studies have shown harmful to our schoolchildren). We protect our kids' health in everyway, except in paying attention to recent health studies that show the negative effect of roads close to where children play outside. The Charlottesville Bypass the Truth Coalition is informing citizens of the important issues on this road. Please pay attention and let's get the "sneaks" out of our local Board of Supervisors. Say GOODBYE to Rodney Thomas and Duane Snow, and next time GOODBYE to Ken Boyd, who masterminded the sneakiness.....and HELLO to Brad Sheffield and Diantha McKeel, as well as Liz Palmer. It is time for an honest change.
County ma,typing the word "UNANIMOUS" is a attempt to feebly overstate the importance of one vote and try to give it a larger meaning it did not have. There are three supervisors who would disagree with your assessment of that vote meant and a fourth who voted for the bypass who didn't think Places 29 was the only answer. To much of this discussions is made by those whose ears are closed and will not listen to a moment that doesn't fit their narrative.
The bypass isn't perfect -on that everyone agrees- but if you don't want it the it is incumbent on you to explain what we will get in it's place.
1. tell me what it is that you are proposing as the alternative - if you have nothing to suggest then your solution is doing nothing.
2. Is there overwhelming support for your view- if not then you sentence this area to no improvements for decades
3. WHERE IS THE MONEY COMING FROM? You can have the best plan in the world but if VDOT doesn't want it-game over. The money for the bypass will disappear in a wisp of smoke. That 200 million+ for the bypass is tied to the bypass (no bypass, no bypass money)- it's an open question if the money for other projects will stay as well but that is an unknown.
4. If the bypass is killed then the land will be sold and that corridor will never ever be built along that route.
If you don't want the bypass it's on you to say what goes in it's place - if it's nothing just pick up your NIMBY card and turnout the lights on your way out because their is no point in arguing about a new bypass that will take decades if ever to be put on the table.
Mr. Halsey or Mr. St.
Your question is perfect. Where does the money come from? Right now, this alleged money for this "bypass" is supposed to come from Uncle Sam and NOT, as in many other Virginia highway projects, to be paid back with tolls. If the time savings is so powerful, why not toll the road and provide federal and state taxpayers some relief from the cost of a $300 million highway?
In case you don't realize this, Mr. Halsey, Uncle Sam is $17 trillion in debt and on the verge -- again -- of being unable to pay the bills because of past stupid spending. The first rule of holes is when you find yourself in one, quit digging. Building this "bypass" which does almost nothing good for this community, is grabbing a jackhammer and pushing Uncle Sam and Virginia even further in debt. The only return on investment indicates that taxpayers will get $8 million in benefit out of the $300 plus million cost of this "bypass." That "benefit" is less than the cost of borrowing the money to build this highway. Please do this research yourself, Mr. Halsey. You will be stunned of the fiscal irrationality of this highway.
You make an issue of "one vote," the unanimous Places29 vote, neglecting to note that this process took five years and there were dozens of votes by planning commissions and supervisors leading up to that final "one vote." Yet you neglect another "one vote," the single vote -- which took place off-agenda, against-rules at midnight when no one was watching which revised the "bypass." There has only been that ONE vote which reversed 20 years of reality that supervisors realize the "bypass" does almost nothing for congestion and actually makes safety worse (as VDOT tells us consistently).
When do we stop stupid spending and ensure that our tax dollars give us the most bang for every buck spent? Places29 does that and does it for about one-third the cost of the "bypass."
By the way, I live nowhere near this "bypass," I don't have kids or grandkids in the schools who will have their health effected, I don't know of the history of the area (black or Civil War) which the "bypass" will destroy. But I am a taxpayer, paying taxes in the city, the county, the state and the feds and I do use the area water supply, which the EPA and the Corps of Engineers, have pointed out could be in danger from this "bypass."
Aren't taxes and water in everyone's "backyards?" All of us are NIMBYs, I submit, not just the people whose homes will lose value if/when this "bypass" destroys their peace, tranquility and -- the data shows -- injure their health.
Salz,
I don't know you, but I like you. Your level headed, informed comments are refreshing. Thank you.
The Texas DOT loves collecting millions for special interests by tolling already-paid-for roads in perpetuity. Not to say it hasn't already happened here in Virginia. Just not in Charlottesville yet. If they get it in their mind to bring that kind of tyranny to Charlottesville, you can be sure the special interests will prep us for it by posting comments on frequently visited local media outlets presenting tolls as a level headed, informed idea and making it look popular.
Ha ha!
Salz the money isn't purely federal - it comes from Virginia taxpayers who don't have a mountain of debt caused by their roads. I agree with your concerns over the federal budget but this infrastructure and uses mostly VA allocated taxes revenues. Your concern for federal debt is touching right up till you start talking about the unfunded overpasses and alternatives to the bypass.
The "midnight vote" is a lie told at the campfire by dems and nimby's to scare the unsuspecting public. What time was the Costco approve by BOS? It was after 11pm about the same time as the bypass vote- where your outrage for that? If you have a problem with the time it was voted on your issue is truly with Lindsey Dorrier because on that night no one else changed their vote. And the "rule" that was suspended had existed for all of a week and would not have prevented the same vote with the same outcome at the very next meeting. The time of the vote is irrelevant
It's the importance of the 'one vote' and what it means not the length o f time planners and a small band of citizens spent on it. A plan for roads with no funding is little more than a wish list.
As for the rest of your allegations and cost figures; they are misapplied and almost fiction.
As a soldier in Rooker's army simply repeating the nimby mantras
If you don't like the stagnant business market in Lynchburg, find another city to do business in.
Why, Mr. Halsey, do you want to change the subject? Costco, for example, has nothing to do with the "bypass" or its funding. Why don't you make a rational argument about why taxpayers should spend $300 million plus on a highway which the ONLY return on investment study indicates will provide less than $8 million in public benefits instead of $170 million on overpasses at Rio and Hydraulic which VDOT tells us will do more for congestion, traffic speed and safety?
Make a good argument, don't change the subject.
Use the facts, please, and explain for those people out here who want to understand why three of the six Albemarle Supervisors voted unanimously for the Places29 plan which says, clearly, “The (bypass) project as designed does not meet community or regional needs, and has been determined too costly for the transportation benefits to be gained. The transportation goals of the Bypass can be more effectively realized with improvements to the existing Route 29 corridor," yet claim to be fiscal conservatives?
The midnight vote is your issue not mine- it's a red herring and the Costco vote shows that inconvenient truth. It's germane and shows that your use of the midnight vote is other scare tactic- you mentioned it first. It's shabby to pretend otherwise. but you can pretend you never mentioned it and keep looking foolish.
The 8 million in public benefit is a magic number made up by a journalist to make (not prove) a point. It's not based on accepted public policy. Please give evidence of this public benefit equation used on any other project and we can talk- otherwise it's just more smoke and mirrors for people who seem to have their wigs on just a little too tight.
I have made excellent arguments perhaps you would like to use good data. I'll wager you thought this bypass was going to cost 500-600 million as well . Got a big shock after it came in on budget. Before you rant about it's never going to cost that please cite your example and pay attention to Skanska excellent reputation before your regurgitated another old wife's tale from the tight wig crowd.
as for the vote of 3-3- it became 4-2 to build - all I need to say about that
I think the Costco vote was on the published agenda. The bypass vote was not.
The bypass is not a sensible use of tax money. It won't do what supporters say it will, and it's not cost-effective. I read that VDOT has received more than 10,000 comments in opposition and only about a thousand in support. That is a significant difference, and not just an enthusiasm gap.
I think the conservatives only support the bypass because one of the arguments against it involves environmental consequences. They hate anything that smacks of environmentalism.
This road is long, long overdue. Every other locality on 29 already has a bypass. They're not frozen by irrational fears about building roads. Traffic in Charlottesville is abysmal, thanks to people like County Ma and the big government candidates she supports.
Let's finally get Charlottesville's road network into the 21st Century.
Dawg being listed on the agenda might have matter if the bypass hadn't had public input- it had plenty before the vote. What happen is Lindsey Dorrier change his mind after being told there would be +$250 million made available for the bypass and other road projects. On that night Dorrier (no one else) changed his vote- no additional public hearing was needed.
You and other in the tight wig crowd keep saying the roads not cost effective but where is the math on that. The interchange at Meadowcreek and 250 is going to cost 25 million- that's a significantly higher cost per mile than the bypass. I haven't seen any cost estimate that compare per mile cost to similar project with the same topography. Just saying it's too expensive isn't proof.
As for support the bypass has consistently polled in Albemarle at 60/40 in favor of the bypass. They held elections where that was the central issue and the pro bypass candidate won. That's proof beyond a doubt of the roads support in Albemarle. A VDOT website- not so much.
This road won't 'do' what proponents say it will. Keep turning a blind eye to the facts, keep your head in the sand. . . But I am opposed to this unbelievable failure of a project for the sake of the children that have to go to school in this county. THEIR HEALTH is way more important to me than your commute time. WAY more important. I'd be willing to bet that every single proponent of this project is an 'old white guy' who either has grown children, out of the house, or doesn't have any children at all.
I live in the city and my kids won't be going to any of the affected schools. That doesn't mean that I don't care about their health.
Get your head out of the sand and leave your house a few minutes sooner each day and your commute will be much more enjoyable. . . unless you're a constant road rager, in which case, you'll never be satisfied anyway.
Traffic in C'ville is not 'abysmal.' It is a little bit congested for about an hour each day. Get over yourselves, think of others' children. What if it were your child going to one of those schools? How would you feel then?
Not to mention (that's already been mentioned) the fiscal IRRESPONSIBILITY of this ridiculous road. . . .Jeezus, can you read? Can you do 5th grade math?
Again, Salz, good points. And thank you also, Dawg; very valid points indeed.
Halsey~ interchanges cost more than roads. Surely even you can grasp that concept.
Myk the myth of health effects is a tired and unproven canard. Sorry no study has ever link the health effect of a road with this amount of traffic to negative health effects on childern. If you want to say that building a school next to highway that has bumper to bumper traffic and 10X to 50X the daily traffic count of the bypass is a bad idea, I agree. Please show one study that given the facts of this bypass comes even marginally close to making a reasonable comparison. I can take 2 aspirins and that's fine - I take a whole bottle and that's very bad. All health effect studies of traffic nears schools involves taking the whole bottle of aspirin. The feds don't think that the levels are even worth consideration. So no study that is comparable to the bypass and no agency that thinks your claim is significant enough to regulate. The health effect of the 29 bypass is a scientifically unproven fairy tale and you don't have a real shred of evidence that says otherwise.
Calling me a rager doesn't make your case, it makes mine. Loosen up the wig and think for yourself. As to my math skills why don't you show your work -perhaps the reason you can't make a case if 5th grade math is all you got. Try a few differential equations and get back to me on that one.
There is no math that has properly compared this project with any comparable project and made the case it's a waste of money. none. If you disagree then it's up to you to prove otherwise.
myk claimed: "I'd be willing to bet that every single proponent of this project is an 'old white guy' who either has grown children, out of the house, or doesn't have any children at all."
You just lost the debate. Typical leftwingnut tactics.
I am not sure where St. Halsey is getting his information that "the bypass has consistently polled in Albemarle at 60/40 in favor of the bypass." According to VDOT figures of the meetings,
Summary of Bypass Public Comment* – 1990-2012 indicate:
• a total of 13,686 (91%) oppose the Bypass, and
• a total of 1,302 (9%) support the Bypass
These are VDOTs OWN NUMBERS.
Also, I go up 29 EVERY MORNING at 8:30, I go from Bodo's to ACAC in 8 minutes. Sometimes, it takes me 10 minutes, but I am not alarmed about that. Still, I concede that if a Bypass is needed, eventually, let's take it in the steps that have already been agreed on. Let's widen 29, build the grade separated interchanges at Hydraulic and Rio, build the parallel roads at Hillsdale and Berkmar and start looking at some models that actually BYPASS 29 (although then you'll get the 29 North Business People whining that you are taking traffic off of the road that would bring patrons to their business doors).
Public comment by interested parties made multiple times are not a scientific poll but a self selected popularity contest akin to voting for American Idol. Numerous polls by Charlottesville Tomorrow the DP and others have shown a consistent 60/40 support. Or and that pesky election 2 years ago show exactly the same thing. The ballot box beats a VDOT poll every day of the week and twice on Sunday
"Also, I go up 29 EVERY MORNING at 8:30, I go from Bodo's to ACAC in 8 minutes."
You're driving NORTH at a time when well over 90% of the traffic is driving SOUTH.
Try driving from Airport Road to Bodo's at 7:30 or 8:00am.
Oh, St. H....are you talking about that "POLL" that Cville Tomorrow did in which the president of Liberty University wrote a letter to their students and faculty and "stuff the poll" with Lynchburg opinions?
Here it is from Brian Wheeler's mouth:
Anytime one of our reader polls gets the attention of a community outside Charlottesville-Albemarle, to the point that the other community becomes our main source of all web traffic, we think we need to share that with our readers.
Dr. Barry Moore, Liberty's VP for Outreach and Strategic Partnerships, sent an email to the Liberty community in Lynchburg, Bedford, Campbell, Amherst, and Appomattox. He encouraged them to vote in our online poll.
"I encourage you to vote 'no,' meaning no more environmental studies are needed. Vote
now!" Moore wrote.
Over the weekend, I confirmed with Liberty officials the content of the message as well as their official position on the bypass. You can read the email and position statement in a comment on the poll.
Anytime one of our unscientific reader polls gets the attention of a community outside Charlottesville-Albemarle, to the point that the other community becomes our main source of all web traffic, we think we need to share that with our readers. That's what happened last Friday when Liberty University sent out a call to action to participate in our humble little survey.
The message below was sent to Charlottesville Tomorrow by one of our readers. The administration at Liberty has acknowledged the message and provided us with their official position on the U.S. 29 Western Bypass.
"As the largest and fastest growing university in the state of Virginia, Liberty University strongly supports the construction of the new bypass around Charlottesville. Liberty’s impact on central Virginia is essential to the region’s economic vitality. Thousands of Liberty students must travel US 29 through Charlottesville to and from Liberty. The construction of a new bypass will positively impact Liberty’s continued growth and will result in enhanced safety and convenience for many of our students.”
Jerry Falwell, Jr., Chancellor and President,
Liberty University
THE EMAIL ALERT:
Students, Faculty, and Friends,
I ask you to take 30 seconds and hopefully vote "no" on a survey that will play an important role in whether or not the Charlottesville bypass is constructed. Please vote today or tomorrow, if at all possible.
This survey's results will be made part of the public information given to senior Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT) officials on Sept. 27, as VDOT contemplates if yet another environmental impact study is needed on the Charlottesville bypass, or if it is time to stop repeating studies and surveys and just build the bypass.
This bypass is needed to be built for many reasons, one of them being greater economic development opportunities for the Route 29 corridor between NOVA and the Va./N.C. state line.
Two decades ago (in a state VDOT strategic plan, also with the cities of Lynchburg and Danville), Charlottesville was given many millions of tax dollars to do the appropriate bypass--needed environmental studies. Unless proven otherwise, which they have not, the studies would subsequently allow for a bypass to be designed and built on Route 29 around Charlottesville.
These efforts were part of a larger plan to make Route 29 a free flowing north-south route, clearing up traffic congestion and the associated frustration. Danville and Lynchburg took action, while Charlottesville has stalled every year until now. The governor has the money set aside for the Charlottesville bypass to be built, but some in Charlottesville don't want this bypass and have been doing all they can to make it go away.
I encourage you to vote "no," meaning no more environmental studies are needed. Vote
now!
Thanks for your help.
Barry N. Moore, Ph.D.
Vice President
Outreach and Strategic Partnerships
Try living in NoVA for a while and see if you complain about the traffic here. We have normal rush hour traffic. People complaining about traffic here are just a bunch of whining babies who are too shortsighted to see the wisdom in the Places 29 proposal.
Awww, Publius, you got me.
Being a fiscal conservative and having empathy for our children qualifies me as "leftwingnut"
Foiled again.
Gotta run. . .my wig is too darned tight. . .
What about the election poll? I don't see any answer for tha from anyone yet. This road is opposed by a vocal minority lead by Dennis Rooker's wife. She helped found the anti bypass group and is at every meeting. I remember Neff did run on the bypass and lost every precinct . Polls in media mean very little
Let's build what we got because we can't wait for 20 more years of dithering and doing nothing
County Ma and myk's comments made me genuinely LOL. Especially Ma's campaign plug for the BoS Democrats:
"HELLO to Brad Sheffield and Diantha McKeel, as well as Liz Palmer. It is time for an honest change."
I guess if you can't have a rapist on the board, you'll take an "honest" guy like Sheffield, someone with zero experience for the job, but lots of experience filing bankruptcies and skipping out on his personal debts. There's Democrat "honesty" for you.
Okay, one final comment.
1) It's not JUST liberals who oppose this highway. The journalist that Mr. Halsey complains so bitterly about is Jim Bacon, the former editor of Virginia Business magazine whose is very pro-Virginia business. He told me he's a Republican leaning toward Libertarianism. Mr. Bacon's Return on Investment analysis is the ONLY ROI analysis which, one would think, all business Republicans would want. Why not, especially if one doubts Mr. Bacon's work, ask VDOT to actually do an official ROI analysis? Doesn't it make sense that any project should be analyzed for its cost-benefit by the state of Virginia prior to spending money?
Meanwhile, The Taxpayers for Common Sense, hardly a liberal group and heavily concerned about federal spending, calls this bypass one of the eight worst projects in the entire nation because of the waste of dollars and James Rich,a 20-year veteran of the state's Republican party exec committee and a proud Reagan Republican, calls this highway a "colossal waste of taxpayer money." Mr. Rich kept trying to talk fiscal reality about the bypass and, hence, he got fired from the Commonwealth Transportation Board by a sec trans of his own party. Our area's previous CTB member, Butch Davies, also notes the bypass is a waste of money and VDOT originally sequenced Rio and Hydraulic overpasses prior to considering any other transportation project along 29N and concluded the bypass should be built LAST and only if there was money available. Presently, we (Virginia and Uncle Sam) will have to borrow the $300 million plus which will be over half of all dollars coming to the entire nine counties in our transportation district now THROUGH 2050. None of those other counties have transportation needs, do they?
2) Yes, Mr. Dawg, there are many environmental reasons NOT to build this highway. Both the EPA and the Corp of Engineers has indicated they will resist permitting because it'll cross the water supply for over 100,000 people and an ammonia spill could be deadly, but, regardless of any future spills into the water supply, construction will dump dirt and sand into the reservoir which we all need.
3) In the Places29 report, the total of all projects is $169 million with about $80 million on the overpasses at Rio and Hydraulic. Those two intersection VDOT reports tell us, cause about 78 percent of the accidents along 29N. Building a "bypass" will do next to nothing for safety as, VDOT tells us, 90 percent of 29N traffic is local and only 10 percent pass through from points south or north. One safety analysis concluded that the bypass will prevent accidents at a cost of $10 million per but overpasses will stop accidents at a cost of $35,000 per accident. Certainly, that analysis can be argued with BUT that means that Mr. Halsey and Me. Publius would have to provide the data and the mathematical skills and the actual thinking/reasoning, instead of calling names and changing the subject.
Please don't trust me, folks, but don't trust Mr. Halsey and other proponents either. Do the research yourself and you will be appalled that we are about to waste this much money on a project which does so much less than the Places29 overpasses at Rio and Hydraulic for the citizens of this community. Below is a handful of very readable reports on the bypass but of course you can, as I have done, or has CATCO has done, get VDOT's work and read it yourself. You will find, as VDOT did, after spending $1.5 million in 2009 that “the Western Bypass is no longer an effective option to serve corridor-wide trips"– its mandated purpose. You will find, as our county planners did, that "The (Bypass) project as designed does not meet community or regional needs, and has been determined too costly for the transportation benefits to be gained. The transportation goals of the Bypass can be more effectively realized with improvements to the existing Route 29 corridor.”
http://www.c-ville.com/the-bypass/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/wasteful-charlottesville-highway-hig...
https://readthehook.com/109630/barnums-beaming-greatest-bypass-earth
http://www.dailyprogress.com/opinion/a-bait-and-switch-on-the-bypass/art...
http://www.baconsrebellion.com/2013/05/safety-last.html
http://www.taxpayer.net/library/article/charlottesville-bypass-not-a-wor...
http://readthehook.com/103879/new-study-bypass-use-greer-kids-guinea...
http://www.baconsrebellion.com/2013/03/bend-buckle-and-crack.html
http://www.crozetgazette.com/2013/05/to-the-editor-bypass-boondoggle/
http://www.styleweekly.com/richmond/bypassing-sense/Content?oid=1832475
http://readthehook.com/109094/road-nowhere-western-bypass-must-be-st...
http://www.baconsrebellion.com/2012/02/the-road-to-wealth-destruction.html
http://readthehook.com/107956/Spiraling-why-Charlottesville-bypass-w...
http://hamptonroads.com/2013/05/making-mess-road-project
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/stopping-a-road-to-nowhere-in-nor...
http://readthehook.com/110117/bypass-be-gone-its-not-too-late-undo-b...
I think one of the overlooked facts about the "bypass" is that Ken Boyd wants a bypass (he also wants higher political office), but doesn't want it through Key West (his neighborhood). So when a reader asks how Boyd won the election, let's ask how many Forest Lakes folks were sold a bill of good and told that it would be good for them (and are now finding out that the Northern terminus has not even been designed yet). As for why the Key West folks voted for Boyd, he was trying to keep the bypass out of their neighborhood. But when this bypass is finally taken off the table for good and a new one decided upon that will go EAST of town (through Key West), see how fast Boyd gets OFF the bypass train.
salz repeating the greatest hits of the anti bypass is just cut and paste not a discussion.
1. Bacon ROI has never been used on any other project and has ZERO validity. please name just one project Bacon ROI showed was worth the money. I have been told that Bacon has admitted his ROI method is his own and has never been used on any other project.
2. Taxpayer for Common Sense is just a golden oldie that was awarded long ago and mentioning it again is much like trotting out that Charlottesville was once named the best city to live in- even though that award is over a decade old. Again you have shown no comparable project of math involved
3. the Bypass isn't about just safety and your changing the subject (something you like to do when you can't make your points stick). Add to that the lack of political will to approve bypasses and you got an alternative that nobody but the vocal minority and Dennis Rooker seem to want.
4.CATCO- co founded by Mrs. Dennis Rooker who will move heaven and earth to make sure the bypass doesn't run right next to there house and cause them to drive on a underpass. Funny when it's in the Rooker's backyard underpasses are a bad thing but when you build them on Rio and 29 they are the best and cheapest solution EVAR!!!
Salz you want to deny this bit of truth about CATCO.
Go back and look at SALZ first comment about "induced traffic." His entire thesis rest on the idea that if you build a road to relieve congestion it just causes more congestion. So dear readers the best solution for traffic can only be don't ever build any new roads. If you believe that building no new roads ever is a good idea then you will also believe that we should stop building any new homes ever, anywhere in the County because growth never pays for itself.
And that is the essence of what the area NIMBY's want- a hard cap on population. Don't believe me- check out http://www.asapnow.org/ - it's their ultimate goal and Salz or Randy Salzman sits on their board of directors http://www.asapnow.org/about/board-of-directors
Randy's a exterminist globalist tool of Carlos of Spain!
@ Halsey. You should go back and reread your comments. There isn't one single thing in them that makes any sort of cognizant argument in favor of spending a half billion dollars on a "bypass" from Forest Lakes to UVA.
Really, please reread your comments and try to find ANYTHING that supports construction of this OBVIOUS WASTE of a road.
@Halsey
1. Personal attacks against people and groups with whom you disagree is bad form.
2. The bypass is IMHO a poor plan and a waste of money compared to the places 29 plan that was a carefully vetted plan with extensive hearings and consultation and that passed with political consensus.
3. You have made many assertions of fact that seem to be pulled out of the air, and dismiss actual facts (such as VDOT estimates of travel times) that undermine your arguments.
3. To double down on a poor plan that is more expensive, and to do so emotionally and with invective to those who disagree with you suggests that you may be favoring the bypass for more personal reasons than policy reasons.
seems that way to me anyway
well, having lived here for decades, I can state as a fact that three of the bluntest, ugliest, overbuilt and under designed places in our whole community are 1) the intersection of Rio and 29, 2) the intersection of Hydraulic and 29, and 3) the northern terminus of the the meadowcreek parkway. Each is ghastly in its own way. The idea that we would willingly, and expensively let this same crowd build a giant road through our countryside and neighborhoods, is beyond foolish. Can we even imagine what the north and south termini will look like. If you have seen the scale of the damage where McIntire hits the bypass, you will have some idea. whatever monstrosity of concrete and blacktop they are building there....it is waaaaay outsized to the trickle of traffic that will be coming down that meadowcreek parkway. Poor little Charlottesville...
Buddy
1. It's worse form in public policy to say "this is a huge waste of money" and not bring credible facts. Listing provable bias from commenters and those opposed to the bypass isn't a personal attack btw- if you're defending Rooker or Salz, my condolences.
2. saying it's a waste over and over is called parroting - Compared to what? if you and other refuse to find provably equivalent projects to make your case then I can only offer you a cracker not an argument.
3.I haven't done any such thing and saving 3 minutes is statically significant- Do the math I've done and get back to me to prove otherwise- again comparable projects that prove your point.
4.(for some reason you call it 3 again) Your terse nonsensically statement falls in stark relief next to the majority of my factual comments.
If you think the bypass is expensive- prove it- $250 million is the price but no one here has shown that that amount is wasteful compared to other similiar project. Without this simple corollary, all rants to the contrary are emotional and opinion driven.
Without an alternative that can be built, we are only arguing on whether we should build something less than perfect or do nothing. Any unfunded or politically unsupported plan is a red herring for those who want to cower behind the assertions that they aren't NIMBY's-
@ Halsey. It's OBVIOUSLY a waste. Anyway you want to look at it. Cost per mile, time saved per dollar spent. OBVIOUSLY a waste. Salzman provided you with every link you need. You've been lead to water--try taking a drink.
VDOT currently gives the 29n corridor an F rating. We build a "bypass" from UVA to Forest Lakes and VDOT projects that the 29n corridor will have..........an F rating.
For the record I live 15 miles west of the thing, so my backyard doesn't have a dog in the fight, it's just that you'll never find a more clear example of everything that's wrong with government than this "bypass." It's the worst type of backroom deal--it's wrong for all of the wrong reasons, an insult to taxpayers throughout the state. A disaster of a design with OBVIOUS cheaper, better solutions just sitting there waiting for the funding that this joke of a "bypass" is going to suck up.
You not liking Dennis Rooker's wife or whatever is NOT a compelling reason to build this road. This road is INDEFENSIBLE.
Well johnny since you wrote OBVIOUSLY in large letters I guess that is the end of it. You marshall no comparable road project and yet still scream it's expensive. I look at projects like the Wilson bridge in DC and say our bypass is a bargain. Per mile cost without looking at topography is suspect. 10 miles in flat Texas can be as much as 1 mile in West Virginia.
Again you or no one else brings any comparable project to prove you oft stated but never proven scream "It cost too much!!". Saying it again only makes my point not yours.
Your VDOT rating doesn't include the widening of 29 does it? Shame on you not including that to make your claim. For the record you have given little but visceral objection but almost no current fact- old retreaded and no longer valid facts sure but you knew that.
If you don't think that having Dennis Rooker's wife lead the opposition to stopping the bypass has had an effect on the tenor of this debate, you are naive indeed. Rooker has had a personal bias since day 1 and he claims he doesn't- it's quite shameful actually.
The anti bypass crowd lies and when the facts go against them just can't stand it.
Rooker said "the road will cost $500 to $600 million" when the bids come in on budget "You can't trust those numbers" . Can't trust the numbers of an experience international construction company because why- it's inconvenient your narrative? That so boldface and desperate it would make me laugh it it weren't more self centered public policy from Rooker once more.
-I have seen turkeys fly the lands of the proposed bypass.
-I have seen bobcats scoot over lands of the proposed bypass.
-I have seen sunsets over quiet hills with hawks resting in dusk-lit trees
on the lands of the proposed bypass.
-I have heard only the wind on the lands of the proposed bypass.
-I have seen a bear look up curiously on the lands proposed of the proposed bypass.
Is it really the only choice, when technology exists to build a throughway on existing roadways thoroughfares with interchanges -- for comparable if not less money? And the 60-90 seconds of time saved is achieved?
Worth pondering?
“We need the tonic of wildness...At the same time that we are earnest to explore and learn all things, we require that all things be mysterious and unexplorable, that land and sea be indefinitely wild, unsurveyed and unfathomed by us because unfathomable. We can never have enough of nature.” - Henry David Thoreau
Once it's gone. It's gone.
And only the naysayers that risk being unpopular, labeled as backward or myopic and blind to the future become silent heroes to another generation of man, flora and fauna.
Cheers.
What James said. We live in a beautiful part of the world, and we lose much when we build roads like the bypass.
I've had enough nature getting in the way of progress and then hearing people tell others how wonderful it is when they're too poor to experience anything but life in a concrete jungle due to misguided and ill informed environmental regulations such as cap and trade and carbon taxes and shutting down of our clean coal plants which are being blamed for the pollution that China's dirty ones are dropping out of the jetstream in this country.
It's not nature's fault, it's human nature's fault. Chumps!
The jetstream just happens to flow from there to here. And they build two new coal plants a week while we have put ours out of business for no reason whatsoever but to transfer wealth into the coffers of the globalists and their corporations who always get the waiver because they get rich through corruption and thus have the money to buy the politicians who write the environmental bills and threaten to blackmail them/make their planes crash if they don't write in the waiver for them. I read Thoreau when I was a kid and liked him, but that was the end of an era as even he admitted. Adapt!
Yes indeed, there will be plenty of opposition to thoughts
Of any earth preservation even if alternatives are presented.
Thoroughfares and interchanges...
It's never easy but whether it be yellowstone park, Shenandoah park,
Yosemite park, They all were shouted against. Today's gutsy
Ones are always remembered tomorrow. Even if its just
A stretch of highway....cheers. To each his own :)
Would only save 66 seconds, eh? 3 kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
This whopper appears to cover both definitions 2 and 3. Good job you LSOS...
So double the number and maybe it saves a couple of minutes. Still not worth it. The data that are available and basic logic do not support the current bypass design from a cost-benefit point of view. They just don't. But that never makes one bit of difference to the right-wing hive mind.
It would make it all worth it just to see the look of despair on all those rich nature worshiping folks from the previous generation who voted for Clinton and Obama and thus helped destroy the future for the next generation and it's successors, when their precious yards are turned into progress!
It make it even more worth it sit back and watch them cry as the economy collapses due in part to the fact that they didn't build it twenty years ago when it would have been so much cheaper and cost effective because they put nature above people.
One of these days I'll tear it to the ground!
Wow! That's more than even I expect.
Nature is an inconvenience.
Progress at the hand of man is the only solution.
Build until all green spaces are gone.
Man is king. Pollution areas like cancer alley
In Mississippi...nuclear disasters like Chernobyl....all fine. Just progress. I think
I get your l get your line of thinking. Only a tree
Hugger would get in the way of things. Trees are
Bad. Animals are bad. Man is king. Only he
Knows what's right for his own survival. Visit
China where air is dirty and progress is king and
Celebrate more victories ;) you seem angry and unhappy
That you didn't make it to the top of your class
In high school. Don't be angry. Just kill. Enjoy some
Bud light. Watch some tv and curse anyone that ever
Mentions nature like its a good thing :)
We shouldn't stop at just *not* building the bypass. That's so short-sighted. If we are *really* serious about protecting green spaces for our children and our children's children, the ONLY solution is tear up most of the asphalt on Rt 29 and make it a 2-lane road again. Re-grow trees where there is now pavement. Get rid of nearly all the stop lights, and replace them with 4-way stops or roundabouts.
And all those people living in their homes in Northern Albemarle and Greene County, trying to get to work in Charlottesville? They'll just have to learn a new trade and work nearer to where they live. Or sell that house and move into a tenement down near 5th & Dice.
And to the rest of Virginia, trying to drive from DC to Lynchburg, and points south, we say... "GFY!" Take 95 to 85, and figure it out from there.
If I had made it to top of my class in a public school I doubt I'd ever realize I had been brainwashed by public school because I'd be constantly rewarded and validated for following the status quo based on lies and disinfo. Who but man knows what is best for mankind, the Aye Ayes? The porpoises swimming with Pooty Poot? God, and that's it. You don't seem to get my line of thinking so let me elaborate: The eugenicist elite use people's legitimate concern and primal instincts to care for the environment and they direct it towards scams, such as carbon dioxide causing global warming, which enable them to shut down their competition, gain monopoly, and micromanage the economy to their advantage while also diverting people's attention, time, and energy away from the things they themselves are doing to destroy people's futures financially and to destroy the environment with things such as chemtrailing, HAARP and other weather modification technology, dozens of high altitude nuclear detonations, nuclear meltdowns (caused by artificial scarcity of oil and coal resources and demonization of their exploitation "necessitating" nuclear energy which could otherwise be eliminated entirely), dumping nerve gas and nuclear waste off our coasts, the list goes on forever. And then they spend the money they get through the environmental scams on brainwashing through NPR with Delphi technique soft speaking CIA agents posing as liberals and ram it into your psyche by telling you how smart you are to believe they're crap and not watch television, while never making any mention of the real horrors the elite are doing to wreck Planet Earth because that would be counterproductive to the Luciferian agenda they have (and yes, this ia a spiritual battle that is being waged). You're chumps, easy marks, suckers and you're been conned so long (you're entire life) that to admit it now would shatter your whole worldview and psyche and cause you to go insane like me if you were willing to be ostracized and go against what your peers, friends, and family think you should believe. You'd also lose your job and spend all your time listening to the Alex Jones Show (and his thousands of guests and callers - infowars.com) for eight years to gain more undertanding of how the world really works, adding to the insanity. Then you'd finally get tired of him too because you've learned pretty much everything and realized that knowledge is a curse. Bud Light is fluoridated aluminum GMO filled poison horse piss which I never drank even back when I did drink. Don't associate me with Bud Light please. I like Red Stripe and Bold Rock Cider, and Corona with a twist of lime :0)
OMG, Captain Kangaroo, please get psychiatric help as soon as you can. You are delusional.
I haven't been saving my grocery receipts. They're filled with Bisphenol A to sterilize my balls! UVA would never leave me alone if I did. See ya later. Boing! Boing! Boing!
So this is the thinking of the pro bypass legion?
I love it. Ever wonder if earth could exist with only
Man on it? With no plants or animals?
It's scientifically impossible. Heck, remove honeybees
And it hastens our decline and plant and flower fertilization.
I like conspiracy theories but too broad a brush,
And no respect for natural world and we all die.
And that's no conspiracy theory. So we depend
On the brave ones, the naysayers, to fight. It's not
A simple world and assuming man and his chosen god are
All powerful is hubris.
Nothing like comments on anything bypass related to bring out the local kooks! Primary reason why most who don't live here think that the town is pretty but is full of pompous fools.
At least until I can convince him :o)
James~
Rock on with your poetic self! Cheers!
"Nothing like comments on anything bypass related to bring out the local kooks! Primary reason why most who don't live here think that the town is pretty but is full of pompous fools."
Exactly. Especially the "I'm-smarter-than-you-and-if-you-don't-agree-with-me-you-must-hate-nature" tree hugging bedwetters. They'll have you believe that building a road is tantamount to global deforestation.
I'm guessing most of them are ASAP kooks who want to stop growth entirely, and have us back gathering nuts and berries.
One road is fine. How about two roads? How about 10 roads? How about 1 million roads? Can you tell me what a good number is? Ever been to Los Angeles? It is a polluted maze… It was once a beautiful place by the ocean. I wonder if they will say that about The Charlottesville area? that once it was beautiful. But they eventually kept adding roads as they grew because it was practical and people needed a way to get around quickly. It's only subjective but those who have the guts to draw lines ultimately will lead us to a place where We look back later and are thankful. We can continue to develop slowly but surely and 'smartly' but if you carry this out a 1000 years obviously the only thing that will be left is well nothing. Except maybe some national parks. But those are said tree huggers to… people go there to worship nature and that seems sort of like a left-wing conspiracy sometimes Perhaps? It's not easy decisions that are required or even always the most practical decisions in the short-term but it's vision for quality-of-life In the long term. If That makes me a bedwetter or tree hugger then give me some depends and a nice tree to hug. I think there is a feeling that because life is short and we have to do what's right and stop being impractical. However life of the earth is very long and this is where it's more difficult to grasp. What is so vitally important about the bypass? Why would a thorough fare and interchanges not suffice? Thinking long-term here… What do you want your great great great grandkids to think and say about the Charlottesville area? It once was nice or that it is a great place to get to Lynchburg a minute or so quicker…
Publius, the fact is that the environmentalists ARE probably smarter than you. What is it with being so hostile to educated people who understand things like science? If you know-nothings would settle down and let people who are focused on the public interest and not just the bottom line make some headway, the world would be a better place.
James, you make excellent points.
One can find beauty in a concrete jungle provided there is beauty in their eye.
Thanks, Dawg, for proving Publius' point. Environuts and most liberals are always smarter than anyone who disagrees with them. You clowns are a laugh riot.
:-)
ps - intelligence debates aside, we are going to miss ya HOOK!
thanks for covering our area....and getting it (mostly) right.
Congrats on the valedictatorship, ps this comment board isn't a letter. One Love! (fist bump)
Tune in next week!
Keep the web format and it'll come back to life, I promise!
I was just starting to get into the very "different" logic of our most prolific commenter when he (that's you JWG) threw me for a loop by first raging against people who are concerned about their environment and then whining about his pet themes of fluoride and aluminum in the environment. Is there some legit schizo-logic there that I'm missing?
He has clearly suffered some damage to his body's chemistry. I doubt if aluminum was involved in that unless it was the damage that an aluminum hat caused due to lack of ventilation.
But she threatened me
They'd back it up
If you had a heart like mine you'd throw yourself in a loop.
Your nuts in my mouth!
This is a family newspaper?
Blame it on the stars
The "Hi" light of my day.