Blunt force: Documents claim Huguely bloodied and tossed Yeardley Love
Daily Progress editor McGregor McCance emerges from the July 1 document-unsealing hearing.PHOTO BY HAWES SPENCER
Two months after the bloody, pre-graduation death of UVA student Yeardley Love, newly released documents suggest that accused killer and fellow fourth-year student George W. Huguely V knew he had injured his 22-year-old former girlfriend because, he allegedly told police, he saw blood coming from her nose before throwing her on her bed. And days before those chilling details, the Medical Examiner's Office confirmed what the earliest reports suggested: that blunt force trauma to the young woman's head was the cause of her death.
The revelations–- including the fact that police found Huguely's passport inside a pair of his cargo shorts–- run counter to what Huguely's lawyer has termed "an accident with a tragic outcome" and bolster the state's murder case against the scion of a prominent Washington family who allegedly told police he repeatedly slammed Love's head into a wall during an "altercation."
The documents, released July 8 by Judge John J. McGrath Jr., include affidavits and search warrant inventories previously sealed until several media organizations–- the Daily Progress, Richmond Times-Dispatch, the Washington Post, and the AP–- pressed the Charlottesville Circuit Court to unseal them.
Left sealed, however, are warrants for email and cellphone records, as well as the names of witnesses, Huguely's Social Security number, and "item number one" on the inventory of things removed from the black 2002 Chevrolet Tahoe registered to Huguely's father, which were redacted from the documents.
Huguely, who like Love was a lacrosse player, is charged with first-degree murder in her death, which rocked UVA's class of 2010 and caused the outgoing president to conduct public meetings and condolences. Even before release of the bleeding nose detail, documents suggested Huguely knew Love was injured and didn't call for help. Defense attorneys have portrayed Huguely's case as an uphill battle–- one compounded by a 2008 arrest in Lexington in which Huguely was reportedly so intoxicated that he didn't remember resisting arrest, threatening an officer, or getting Tased. Huguely's lawyer, Fran Lawrence, did not immediately respond to a reporter's call.
As previously reported, Love's roommates called 911 after finding her face down on her bed in a pool of blood early on May 3. When rescue workers and police were called to Love's apartment–- number 9 at 222 14th Street NW–- they tried life-saving procedures to no avail, and she was pronounced dead at the scene, according to one affidavit. Police officers described a large bruise on the right side of Love's face, her right eye swollen shut, as well as scrapes and bruises on her chin. A warrant notes a hole in the door to her bedroom that appeared made by a fist, and that the door appeared to have been kicked in.
While he was in police custody, investigators took hair samples from Huguely's legs, fingernail scrapings from both hands, as well as a black t-shirt he was wearing with a police logo on front and back, brown flip-flops, blue Nike shorts, $3 in U.S. currency, and a set of keys. A search warrant of Huguely's body also ordered x-rays of both hands to be conducted at the UVA Medical Center, as well as a doctor's examination of visible injuries on his body.
During the search of Huguely's apartment at 230 14th Street NW, just a few doors down from Love's, police recovered the shorts he was said to be wearing during the incident. In the pockets, his passport and keys to the Tahoe were found, according to an affidavit. If he were planning to flee the country, the $3 found in his pocket wouldn't have gotten him very far, and neither the affidavits nor the inventories mention any credit cards or wallet.
A white UVA lacrosse t-shirt with a red stain was taken from Huguely's apartment. So were a green spiral notebook, two white Apple laptop computers, and a letter–- contents unknown–- addressed to Yeardley Love. According to a previously released affidavit, Huguely told police he'd exchanged emails with Love and took her laptop. He told investigators where to find it, but it's unclear if the one recovered in his apartment is hers. "No property belonging to Love was recovered during the search of Huguely's apartment," states a May 6 affidavit.
In one of the more puzzling details, Huguely allegedly told police that Love was wearing a black t-shirt and panties as he slammed her head into a wall of her bedroom. But when police found her, she was wearing underwear only, and a warrant affidavit issued on May 7 sought to recover the t-shirt that showed up in crime photos on the floor of Love's bedroom about two feet from her body. But the inventory of the resulting search does not list the t-shirt as being recovered.
It turns out that detectives neglected to take the shirt before custody of the apartment was turned over to Love's family, who picked up the shirt, according to City spokesperson Ric Barrick, who released a statement on the matter on the afternoon of July 9. According to Barrick's release, the family promptly turned the shirt over to investigators who will send the garment to the State Lab in Richmond for testing.
Taken from the Tahoe were handwritten notes, a Canon digital camera, and a Verizon LG flip phone, according to one warrant. But the initial inventory of Love's apartment portrays a grimmer scene: sheets, pillow, pillowcase, comforter, towels, bed skirt, and two different swabs from walls–- all stained red. Police also collected the kicked-in door to Love's bedroom, her purses, mobile phones, camera, a note in the desk drawer... and a golf tee.
Huguely reportedly had played golf that afternoon at Farmington Country Club.
–story updated 2:37pm with paragraph clarifying what happened to the black t-shirt
152 comments
So Sean, you accused Yawn of being OCD about your life. Ever taken a step back and realized you are demonstrating even more symptoms of OCD towards UVA? I don't think so.
Deleted by moderator.
Well, Morgan Dana Harrington didn't exactly just go "missing".
She was a likely victim of rape wasn't she?
And she was a victim of equal violence.
Both women were from affluent homes.
I think the difference was that in some warped way, Morgan was considered to be from a male/female UVa lacrosse "family." Weird! So she got an avalanche of support from UVa male and female lacrosse players, athletes, and fans, even though it was one that UVa lacrosse "family" that killed her, wasn't it?
Whereas, Morgan Dana Harrington apparently didn't have a boyfriend even. She was kind of a solitary figure.
ââ?¬Å?Are you coming to bed?”
ââ?¬Å?I can’t, this is important.”
ââ?¬Å?What?”
ââ?¬Å?Someone is WASTING THEIR TIME on the internet and I NEED TO SET THEM STRAIGHT!"
Something to keep in mind, booo. Get some perspective. Find a hobby. Or two
Dear "Yes",
I think it would be wise to have a healthy amount of skepticism with regard to "Party Schools" as selected by the Princeton review. I seem to recall some pretty interesting parties at Princeton, who is noticeably absent in a self serving manner, from the listing itself.
Secondly, someone's CHILD was beaten and shaken to death like a rag doll. All of their dreams for the future of that child are gone. They dream and wonder about how much she suffered in those last moments. Thirdly, this happened at the hands of someone elses CHILD who had serious alcohol and anger issues, and who never got the help he really needed.
Most of you probably have fifty or sixty years remaining on this Earth before you too pass. Do you think that the voyeuristic conversation about bloody t-shirts is how you would want to spend your time ? What if your own life ended soon. Life is short. Do something worthwhile.
Wait, if Sean graduated from Wisconsin, then why is he going to PVCC and why would he apply to U.Va. as an undergrad transfer student? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to apply to graduate or professional school at U.Va. (or Tech, William and Mary, JMU, VCU, GMU, etc.). I'm sure that he would be admitted and would be given a fellowship based on demonstrated intellectual accomplishment.
fyi, I could be a Wahoo any time I felt like it. You may want to familiarize yoursleves with the Guarranteed Admission Agreement with the VCCS. That's how my roomate got in, and now she's going broke. But why waste all that money?
yawn..
close. Yahoo, wahoo - what's one letter?
@amanda - if they choose to attempt to start a confrontation, then I consider it in bad taste on their part and see they don't have much to keep their hands busy, ignore these posts as well,
"don't rise to the bait, they will fish elsewhere"....sooooooo.....that being said, I would definitely ignore such posts. HOWEVER, this particular case sparked a nerve in me as well...(rich brat kills/maims/breaks the law/etc. and now has high powered lawyers to get him out of it)...This guy was so very in front of everyone with his actions (coaches, UVA Professors, his parents and friends, etc) and with the information we have recieved via the press....there was not one person that intervened. I feel as you do Amanda, do we even have the right to say we're sorry and hope for the best outcome to the trial? I am not sure....so many things went terribly wrong....
...and one more thing
(ââ?¬Å?Why do you think the Facebook site for the deceased UVa female lacrosse player almost IMMEDIATELY got over twice as many friends as the Find Morgan Facebook site did?
Any comments on this? Did it have anything to do with the way that Morgan Harrington was dressed at the concert? I have to ask this.”)
Well, it could largely be a result of the enormous media spotlight put on this story due to the "sexy" factors surrounding the case...you know the Ultra-rich spoiled lax brat, the universally loved and beautiful victim who was also a lax player, the high rankings of both teams at the time of the murder, the lives of privilege they both led, the brutality of the crime, the location, the prestigious school, etc.
Just a wild guess...
This series of 150+ posts has turned in to posts about "S Jones," instead about the crime itself. I don't have any interest in "S Jones."
Getting back to the lacrosse topic, when is the case going to be held?
So I have enemies..
Awesome. I stood up for something, and pointed out a few very simple things that make the powers that be around here shudder. Myself and my activist group have dared to bring the ideas of honor, honesty, and medical ethics BACK to UVA where they once flourished.
Casteen may be getting his ass outta here to go sell cigarettes to teenagers, but there are plenty of his cronies left that will eventually have to face the music - and yes that includes from our boys in Richmond. It's going to be a great Fall semester.
No doubt there are some kids snorting something illegal in some houses in Charlottesville, but I went to UVA for four years, went to parties, drank too much on too many weekends, etc., but never once saw any drug harder than the occasional joint, which was itself relatively marginalized on the social scene.
Sorry, Sean. :(
Newsflash Sean: By not posting your full real name, you're just as anonymous. You're hiding too.
Hope that helps.
guys, you're even posting on the wrong threads now..
It's time to leave your UVA office and get some rest. You are just sitting there obsessing about me and adding to UVA's carbon footprint, after all.
What are you trying to do, destroy the planet!?
Even Wikipedia can get this stuff right:
"The Declaration was originally adopted in June 1964 in Helsinki, Finland, and has since undergone six revisions (the most recent at the General Assembly in October 2008) and two clarifications, growing considerably in length from 11 to 32 paragraphs. The Declaration is an important document in the history of research ethics as the first significant effort of the medical community to regulate research itself, and forms the basis of most subsequent documents.
Prior to the 1947 Nuremberg Code there was no generally accepted code of conduct governing the ethical aspects of human research, although some countries, notably Germany and Russia, had national policies [3a]. The Declaration developed the ten principles first stated in the Nuremberg Code, and tied them to the Declaration of Geneva (1948), a statement of physician's ethical duties. The Declaration more specifically addressed clinical research, reflecting changes in medical practice from the term 'Human Experimentation' used in the Nuremberg Code."
Yawn, I know you're angry and bitter. But have you asked yourself why it is that you have gotten so obsessed with every detail of my life to the point of OCD, while at the same time hiding behind a fake name online and being too cowardly to at least put your own name atop your own comments?
This thread was about a very bad thing that happened at UVA, and a court case that might ascertain exactly what happened and why. Or perhaps a court case that will never happen. Isn't it interesting that people with such infallible, superior opinions and theories have to hide like mice behind the fridge and make up fake names for themselves?
=o)
"fyi, I could be a Wahoo any time I felt like"
Doubtful, unless Sean found a way for credit towards an Associate's degree the same sort of general education courses that he must have taken to (allegedly) earn a BA degree from Madison.
That sort of double-dipping for credit is considered academic fraud at most schools. (At UVa, you can't retake a course you've already passed, if I remember correctly.)
"UVA" and "Mike",
The Princeton Review sits in a town where Princeton University is the largest employer, most influential organized body, and wields virtually a controlling interest in the town,not completely unlike the influence UVA has over Charlottesville. It would be incredibly naive to assume that the lists were without strong bias.
Mr/Mrs/Miss ?, how exactly does my commenting on a STARZ network show hijack this thread and make it about me?
Sean it's like you have a scenario for everything.
Why are you surveying gutters on JPA at 2 am anyway? And yeah hahahaha just call the police. Can you imagine being a 20 year old college student, passing out, and waking up in Sean's apartment? Oh my.
And a friend of the deceased frat brother (RIP) sleeping on your couch? Oh come on, how did that end up happening?
Also- Why are you so convinced everyone commenting is a UVA admin? I am barely legal much less a high-up UVA employee.
JK,
Princeton Review has absolutely no affiliation with Princeton University.
And to Sean,
Once again you have displayed your ignorance about how medicine and hospitals work. Please read up on HIPAA. Medical professionals have absolutely no reasons to provide any information to you. Who do you think you are?
Gotta admit your powder keg comment is absolute hilarious to read. Clearly alcohol/drug problems in a college is a powder keg. Wow, big surprise there.
Sean, like so many people on the American Right these days, you have no clue what "The Left" actually is. Here are the names of a few organizations. Plug them into search engines.
American Friends Service Committee
Oxfam
Industrial Workers of the World
www.infoshop.org
Workers Solidarity Alliance
US Federation of Workers Cooperatives
Green Party of the United States (www.gp.org)
Actually, anybody involved with the US Social Forum: www.ussf2010.org
We would have a very different world if places like UVA fit the terms you use. Let's make it so.
JK, the Princeton Review is not affiliated with Princeton University and its rankings are based on student surveys.
Sean, picking up unconscious college girls and carrying them home is creepy. Next time you should just call the police.
Sean
Do you remember when the father of the deceased young man came on here (or maybe it was the cavdaily)and told of how he came home to find his wife hysterical as she had just read what you had written about her recently deceased son (whom you did not know) on multiple, and sometimes unrelated, articles? He also wrote that you have absoultely no idea what are you talking about with regards to toxicology reports, as he was an EMT for 30 plus years and knows that tox reports take up to 6 months in most cases. Furthermore, he was just outraged that someone could be as insensitive, cruel and ignorant as you were.
Sean, you are 45 years old. Why are you obsessed with the lives of undergrads aged 18-22? Do you go to parties? Do you go to student bars? Do you hang out with all undergrads at the libraries and dining halls and get the inside scoop on the gossip? No doubt you would enjoy that immensely, of course.
BTW at whomever asked: the "Fourth Year Fifth" is a tradition where participating 4th years try to drink a 5th before the football game starts. No one is drinking a fifth of liquor in the 4th quarter alone-they would surely die. I would estimate that maybe 10% of the male student population and 2-3% of the female student population attempt this (the figures would he higher for some moderate version of it). Often two people would just split a 5th instead of trying to do the whole thing. The few people in my fraternity who attempted it got up at 6 am (for a 1pm game) so they could drink the 5th and not be in danger getting sick or too overy intoxicated.
Hawes, how does allowing people to comment daily and in an off the wall, ridiculous, often political ways help your business model in this very tough climate? As someone that owns a local business I don't want to be associated with many of these off the wall comments on your site. Why do you allow it? How does it help your advertisers? Since The Hook is free, shouldn't you be all about the advertisers?
Do you just love it? Does it make you happy that people like Sean and Gasbag come on here daily and hijack the threads and make them about themselves? Why do you allow it?
Sean's inferences are as accurate as those of BlinkonCrime. The two should join forces.
t doesn’t do much, though, when all the near deaths - my ex girlfriends included - are covered up and not spoken of again. There is no accountability. Just winks and nods. My ex was released from the ICU after two days and just sent home to do it all over again if she pleased. As it was essentially a suicide attempt, they should have been all over it. But it was just another day at the office at UVA. We had broken up just a coupla months before, and I knew nothing of it until she told me almost 6 months later.
***
Wait, your ex-girlfriend attempted suicide, and it's U.Va.'s fault? Huh? She was, one can only hope, an adult. And what does your not knowing about it have to do with anything? She chose not to tell you.
Heavy drinking happens at almost every college. It is not at all exclusive to UVA. I cannot cast that stone myself, but at least I can still say that I have never done an illegal drug in my life. About a year ago, I found a UVA gal passed out UNDER an SUV/in the gutter on JPA at 2 am - and pretty much had to carry her home to safety. If that vehicle had pulled out of that parking space, she would have been decapitated. And, yes, UVA does indeed have a few media campaigns to discourage the Fourth Year Fifth. I run the 4th. year 5K pretty much every year.
-----------------------------------
Heh, since when do colleges have a responsibility to monitor every single students at all times, as well as off-campus sites. What is next, oh great Sean Cannan, ankle bracelets for all students? Have UVA police stationed block by block throughout the whole Charlottesville to keep a lookout for any students?
Absurd. Keep blaming UVA the lack of preparations the girl made in going to an off-campus party. UVA does not play the role of a father/mother to students.
LOL. Only a lunatic left UVA coward who STILL can only use others names (but never his own) would quote SLATE.COM as a source! Next up, I'll be linking to Fox News as the almighty arbiter of all that is "fair and balanced." (not!) Yeah, I bet the folks at slate are so high half the time that they can barely remember what a toxicology report is! They are the far left, after all.
What UVA - through their online trolls who somehow forget their own names while being of such superior intellect - want you to believe is that UVA hospital didn't bother to try and figure out why a 21 year old student was unresponsive on a Friday morning. Nor did they try and ascertain what was in his bloodstream during the two days they were trying to keep him alive before he died. Nor is it at all important why his frat brothers waited so damn long to call 911. Nor is it of any interest to anyone who provided what to this chap that MIGHT have caused his early demise. Of course not! Not here!
Why, the folks at UVA hospital who tried to save him would have no idea about such things. Neither would the EMT's, or the UVA police. And the media? Well, they would obviously find this tragedy to be of no interest either. Just don't cover it at all, and then you never had to answer anyone's question as to why a young man died before he graduated college.
Anyone can come onto a message board and post whatever name they want, and try and keep whomever they want quiet. They're not doing a particularly good job of it with regard to me, now are they? This is a desperate UVA administration speaking through assumed names on message boards. They know what a powder keg this stuff is. They know what they are up to, and they know how it will go over with the rest of the country. And that very much includes parents thinking about sending their teenagers here.
One of the deceased's best friends slept on my couch the other night, btw. I haven't offended the deceased, his friends (obviously), or anyone besides the people trying to keep everyone else from knowing what would cause such a tragedy. And that is something UVA does every day. They've got very good reason to be pulling their hair out over our website - as well as Susan's.
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/01/04/education/binge-nights-the-emergency-o...
Note the religious guy who nonetheless had time to have three wives as UVA President. =o) But he, obviously, had already made friends at the New York Times as a looney left college president.
Heavy drinking happens at almost every college. It is not at all exclusive to UVA. I cannot cast that stone myself, but at least I can still say that I have never done an illegal drug in my life. About a year ago, I found a UVA gal passed out UNDER an SUV/in the gutter on JPA at 2 am - and pretty much had to carry her home to safety. If that vehicle had pulled out of that parking space, she would have been decapitated. And, yes, UVA does indeed have a few media campaigns to discourage the Fourth Year Fifth. I run the 4th. year 5K pretty much every year.
It doesn't do much, though, when all the near deaths - my ex girlfriends included - are covered up and not spoken of again. There is no accountability. Just winks and nods. My ex was released from the ICU after two days and just sent home to do it all over again if she pleased. As it was essentially a suicide attempt, they should have been all over it. But it was just another day at the office at UVA. We had broken up just a coupla months before, and I knew nothing of it until she told me almost 6 months later.
It's the drugs - lots of them - that get the extra special treatment, and extra special cover ups at UVA. Drinking in college is not news. Female students beaten to death and 21 year old males dropping dead are news. So are the rapes and sexual assaults and other assaults like the one on Ms. Love at Huguely's frat house a few weeks before he killed her! But not here. Not at UVA. No way. Ask any UVA cop. It's the really bad stuff that Casteen knows he has to keep quiet, and he's done a very thorough job of it.
http://www.uvavictimsofrape.com/
I'm betting UVA will do everything in its power to $ee to it that this Huguely/Love case never goes to trial, as it would reveal too much about what lies beneath.
@Sean You said"
"About a year ago, I found a UVA gal passed out UNDER an SUV/in the gutter on JPA at 2 am - and pretty much had to carry her home to safety."
If my daughter at UVA had passed out from alcohol I would pray that she was not found by you.
Sean: I guess "anywhere else in the country" doesn't care as much about preserving jury pools as much as Charlottesville, huh? I assume, though, that you're not thrilled to live in a jurisdiction that cares more about law enforcement than your silly curiosities.
Is Sean still whining about not having the toxicology report? Sean, if you want it, maybe you should apply to one of the following:
Police Academy
Department of Forensic Sciences
Law School, to defend or prosecute him
Otherwise, and seriously now, just stop. It's none of your business. You can camp outside the courtroom and get a front row seat. You'll see it then. Otherwise, it's not important at all.
Yes-- Thanks for all the great stuff you posted.
UVA-- " What Sean Cannan here is making UVA out to be is that hard drugs are found at every single parties, and that students are rolling around in drug-induced haze every Monday morning. That is patently untrue. If you want drugs, you have to work hard to find it. Most students do not see hard drugs. ever."
^WORDED BEAUTIFULLY! It is there to those bad apples who are into that sort of thing. The average youngster rolling into UVA come late August/early September is not a coke abuser!
My god Sean; I did not frequently write on these comments until the Love incident...but my god you say some ridiculous things. You try and make everything sound like a scandalous novel. This isn't a novel, it's real life. Real people. Some good, some bad...mostly good though, I believe.
re:"Is that a major fail on the part of the DP? Did they violate any kind of journalistic standard or procedure? or is it the police’s fault for releasing an unredacted copy of the search warrant, or for allowing unredacted copies to get out there? "
Certainly not DP's fault. Whoever released the unredacted warrants to DP was at fault. It's not the DP's responsibility to self-censor although I would venture a guess that were the SSN NOT that of a suspected murderer, they might have employed more caution.
Oh, and Wisconsin is #6 in hard liquor schools.
"When it comes to drinking, it seems, no state keeps pace with Wisconsin. This state, long famous for its breweries, has led the nation in binge drinking in every year since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began its surveys on the problem more than a decade ago. Binge drinking is defined as five drinks in a sitting for a man, four for a woman.
People in Wisconsin are more likely than anywhere else to drive drunk, according to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health. The state has among the highest incidence of drunken driving deaths in the United States."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/us/16wisconsin.html
@UVA, I've been reading many of the comments here since Yeardley's murder because I'm trying to understand how George H. (or any other student athlete) could continue to play sports with his history of extremely aggressive behavior. Must admit that now I'm curious as to what you mean by "remarkably low-key drug culture."
What do you know about the UVA culture, Sean? You have never attended the school, and have no other associations with the university. And no, bedding UVA coeds does not count. Or are you saying you attend the frat parties that you so despise?
I mean, if you actually know UVA culture, you would realize that the drug environment here is remarkably low-key. Of course, you would let your blind hatred of UVA (What did they ever do to you?) cloud your eyes from the truth.
What's the moral of your lovely stories Sean? I am missing the point.
That kids get messed up on alcohol and drugs? That UVA has hidden a few things? I am not sure UVA does too great of a job of hiding these things since, you know, we are all aware of them. I am going to sound so ignorant by saying this but what exactly makes the UVA admin so bad? I fail to see anything too scandalous.
Drugs and alcohol are there to those who want it. Students want it. Get over it. It isn't that big of a deal. It is only bad when something like this happens. But a lot of people drink and take drugs and they don't kill anyone...obviously then the problem lays elsewhere.
Sean I would like to see you move to the college towns that play host to the University of Wisconsin, Ole Miss, WVU, FSU, and etc "party schools." My god I would love to see what kind of comments you would leave on those towns news sites...
See what I mean? The powers that be love and support the cover ups - and very much want them to continue. Nothing gets faced. nothing gets awareness. The bodies can pile up and the students buried one after another. That's OK with so many people in this town. Just don't dare let anyone know what lies beneath. It might affect applications and enrollment, and that would eventually dip into their own personal drug money allotment. Meanwhile, a brand new crop of teenagers is getting ready to arrive blissfully unaware of the the dark side of the culture they are about to enter. That's by design.
For those that don't know, it's pretty hard to live in C-Ville and avoid being around UVA people. The suggestion that I am somehow detached from UVA and its culture is just another attempt at diversion by those who can't answer simple questions and want you to think about something other than why some news isn't news at all in this town.
fyi, I have helped a few UVA labs with some projects the past few years. I was assisting a UVA professor with online course postings just last week, and I regularly hang out with two other UVA profs. My human rights group at UVA meets for strategy sessions in the Think Tank in Alderman Library, but our first one of the new semester is likely going to a BBQ in late August on the Lawn - where one of our officers moves in soon.
The UVA undergrad who I share a small 2br with doesn't share your share your silly partisan hatred for me. Nor does her dog. As a random sample, I attended Fridays After 5 with two UVA grad students last night, hung out briefly with both them and one of my professor friends thereafter downtown, and spent the last few hours of the night with a Class of 2010 graduate watching her boyfriend's band.
As for my "beddings," wow, there are some of you guys who really need to get a life! I think it was 8 months ago that I mentioned in a Cavalier Daily thread that I've had a few UVA girlfriends. Never used the term "bedded," but boy there sure seem to be some jealous people out there! (oh, and you have every reason to be jealous, btw..) One way or the other, the suggestion that I am so far detached from UVA culture is yet another desperate attempt by some people to distract attention away from the point.
And the point here is that Mr. Huguley's substance issues that night are probably the primary reason this tragedy happened. There are way too many students far too wacked out on any number of things all the time at UVA. EVERYBODY knows this. It is not debated by any UVA person I know. Nobody. And it's a protected tradition. Everybody knows that, too.
when you play golf you usually have tees in your pocket for the rest of the day. he didnt change
Among UVA students, there are no doubts as to what Mr. Huguely's toxicology report would look like. And there is no debate as to why such a crime would be committed at 3 am instead of 3 pm. There is also no debate as to why a 21 year old would drop dead in a frat house in April (actually, he died a few days later at UVA hospital, so they certainly know in his case also).
Regardless whether these presumptions are true or not (and we still don't know for a reason), it remains that a very well entrenched policy and tradition has once again been communicated to UVA students from the administrators that run their school. That is, we will not allow any such information to be reported in local media. We got your back. Deaths or no deaths, the party will go on. Alcohol and drug abuse are part of being a student here, and we will not allow anyone around here to know what you are up to late at night. Same has long been true of sexual assaults and rapes. It's just part of what lies beneath at UVA.
The hospital cooperates with this policy, obviously. Local media - including The Hook - plays along obediently on behalf of their largest advertiser. And all the people whose livelihoods depend on UVA's reputation are AOK with it also - caskets or no caskets. Both Huguely's frat house - where he assaulted Ms. Love a few weeks before her murder, and the house where a brother died in April - are gearing up for party season anew once the freshmen girls check into the dorms in a few weeks. And the process will begin anew.
Quick, folks, read this post quickly - as The Hook is going to censor and delete this one also. Toxicology reports are "not news" according to local media. The winks and the nods and the smiles go between each other and report back to Carr's Hill.
Yes, I'd be willing to bet that the contents of your blood stream on the average weekend show at least one illegal drug. You wouldn't want to seem "uncool" to the people around you, would you? And all the rape, torture, and murder you finance in Mexico is, uh - better for the environment, right?
Which UVA office do you work in anyway?
I’d be willing to bet that the contents of your blood stream on the average weekend show at least one illegal drug.
***
Wrong yet again. It's remarkable that Sean actually believes that the residents of Central Virginia have the same prurient interest in the activities of college students that he has.
Oh, and Sean, don't you continually claim that arrests of U.Va. students are never reported by the local media? I guess that the Hook's story about the student trying to steal purloined textbooks must have been an aberration.
I mean, it couldn't actually be that the local media report on such arrests when they're somewhat interesting or newsworthy, could it?
Given that you believe that there is a great demand for prurient gossip about U.Va., shouldn't you establish your own publication to provide that service? It couldn't be more inaccurate or misrepresentative than your website.
Barbara, the lacrosse team at UVA has long been famous for its reputation for being hard partiers and drug abusers ââ?¬â?? even at a college like UVA already known for both. I lived across the street from a lacrosse house back 5 or 6 years ago when the cops raided the place and found an amazing amount of drugs, including meth! That got next to no coverage locally either. Casteen has been around since 1989. In 2008, a lacrosse star who had recently graduated committed suicide. That story got one little article stuffed inside the Cavalier Daily, and the cause of death never appeared thereafter. This also got little/no coverage locally. This has all been going on for a long time. It doesn’t matter how many students end up dead, or graduate with raging drug habits. The reputation of ââ?¬Å?the University” comes first, and last. And local media plays along with it.
I suggest you have a read of this article regarding Lacrosse printed some weeks ago if you want to get better acquainted with the culture at UVA, especially with regard to the lacrosse teams:
http://readthehook.com/blog/index.php/2010/05/11/murder-at-uva-georg...
or just these tidbits therefrom:
By the time college arrives, the ââ?¬Å?spoils” of the lifestyle have gotten more decadent than just the elevated social status many of them enjoyed in high school. Drugs and alcohol, minimal consequences, preferable treatment from coaches and academic advisors, and the so-called ââ?¬Å?lacrosstitutes,” groupies entranced by the glamor of it all. It’s by no means universal to every lacrosse player or every lacrosse program, but in the lacrosse social scene, it’s all there. And of course, there’s that homogeneous social circle, normalizing this behavior every step of the way.
Part of the grieving process involves investigating how, exactly, something like this could happen among two privileged college kids with everything in the world working in their favor.
To that end, we can’t look past lacrosse’s role.
In my experience, the ââ?¬Å?lacrosse social scene” looks upon alcohol abuse as routine, with marijuana and cocaine ubiquitous, women disposable, and outsiders incidental. Not unlike a fraternity, except that the players at a school like UVA are considered star athletes, operating with significant leeway toward the rules, and ultimately spending most of their time hanging out around people that reinforce their skewed perception of the world.
You could argue that the attitudes and actions stem from a larger disease among entitled rich kids and chauvinistic jocks, and that’d be fair. But so long as you acknowledge that those problems exist, it’s not hard to see how lacrosse might act as an incubator for the disease and its symptoms.
The ââ?¬Å?disease” is not always evil, of course. For the most part, it’s just a lot of kids that don’t know any better, and haven’t had the chance to learn any different.
But it can be dangerous, too. Lines get crossed. Kids do things they don’t remember, sometimes bad things, and their friends tell them it’s fine.
(editor's note: The UVA administration tells them it's fine too - by covering it up)
Sean I would like to see you move to the college towns that play host to the University of Wisconsin, Ole Miss, WVU, FSU, and etc ââ?¬Å?party schools.” My god I would love to see what kind of comments you would leave on those towns news sites”Š
****
Exactly.
Sean:
Also, you have a very intriguing argument. Is this basically it? "UVA is preventing the toxicology report because it will make the school look bad. The fact that a student brutally murdered another one does not make the school look bad without said toxicology report."
Coke-ville?
rofl. What does that make Madison?
Let's see: In Madison, Wisconsin, a student was killed in broad daylight after calling 911 and receiving no help. It was the third murder that school year. Police still haven't solved the crime after two years. A judge recently delayed her family's lawsuit pending further investigation.
Massive UW Cover-up! Where else in America would a university get away with allowing a student to die and then directing that the matter not be investigated for two years?
"MADISON, Wis. (WTAQ) - A judge in Madison says a negligence claim filed by the family of a murdered UW student should wait until police finish investigating the case.
Madison Police are still trying to look for the killer of 21-year-old Brittany Zimmerman, who was strangled and stabbed in her apartment in broad daylight in April of 2008.
Her family filed a negligence claim against former Dane County dispatcher Rita Gahagan. They said she failed to immediately contact police after getting a 911 from Zimmermann’s cell phone just before she was killed. Her union said Gahagan heard nothing on the other end."
I'm ready for a little jail house justice. Wonder if the Hook and the Progress will report Huguely's rape and murder with the same gusto.
Sean = Westboro Baptist Church.
Dear "UVA",
John Katzman, an alum of Princeton, started the "Princeton Review"in 1981 with offices in Framingham,Mass. Since Mr. Katzman is in fact, active in alumni activities at Princeton University, it would still be a hard sell to assert that he is immune from their influence. Do you not understand how powerful,and how well financed Princeton University truly is ? Did you know that every single graduate of PU can expect to graduate owing only 2K for their entire education, even if they came to it with nothing ?
This is only a peripheral point in the discussion here, and my point stands which is, always use your own head to make your own decisions. Don't allow a place known for the creation of exam study material which tabulates student opinion polls, lead you to make decisions as important as where you spend four to ten years getting an education, or where you send your children for one.
Great example, Sean. A 5 sentence article, probably only even published because the victim's father was semi-famous. Give me a break. Yes is exactly right with his last statement - you fail to give any valid criticisms at all because of your ridiculous overgeneralizations and ignorance.
You're more than welcome to take issue with UVA's stance on abortion (which, though I'm not certain, seems to be your biggest problem with UVA). You are not welcome or justified to use that cause to pollute unrelated threads with ignorant, hurtful statements. Whatever is your agenda, you're not posting these things "for a cause". You're posting them as a selfish, callous individual trying to be seen as some sort of moral savior and completely failing.
I think that UVA to a limit has tried to cover up certain things. What I mean by this legal issues that police have to be called on cant be covered but so much. BUT issues that are not reported may be swept under the rug. How many times did GH physically attack YL? I have heard that she had a black eye weeks before.(if true I dont know) But if it is true, why did the womens lax coach ask questions? why didnt roomates say anything? In addition GH apparently attacked a fellow LAx player while he was sleeping. why did the mens coach not say anything? There were signs that that GH was dangerous and YL was in danger too. Yet, not one coach, friend, or UVA person say anything. So yes in a way UVA did not handle the situation in the right way, and Yes they did suppress things. Not to say that this doesnt happen everywhere and all schools do this to a extent. But lets not talk as if UVAs hands are clean on this.
This is how a tragedy of a student dying way before his time is treated by the authorities and covered by local media everywhere else in America:
http://www.gazette.com/articles/fort-98247-alcohol-overdose.html
Notice how it only took three days. Amazing, huh?
But such stories are not stories AT ALL in Charlottesville. And over three months later, nobody seems to want to know any more about it anyway. Same goes for what was in Mr. Huguley's bloodstream that night. Lets just call it "gender violence" and keep what really might lie beneath why he went so crazy secret forever. A reputation has been protected as best can be under the circumstances, and both frats are gearing up for the party season in a few weeks.
I don't know what was in the bloodstream of either guy, obviously. Never said I did. Nor do I mention the name of the deceased. But I do know what the overwhelming presumption is on grounds in both cases. And that carries with it a really horrible lesson for UVA students, doesn't it? That is, that these things will always be covered up - so by all means just keep doing them. If this is not how the system works, it's still how the system is perceived to work. And there certainly is a lot of evidence suggesting this is exactly how it works! Drug abuse happens at every college (ok, maybe not so much at Eastern Mennonite..), the cover ups on behalf of their reputation is where UVA sets itself apart. At extreme left partisan schools like UVA, drugs are cool. It's as simple as that. Just look at The Ivy league!
In retrospect, I probably should have called 911 when I found that gal in the gutter - but when I woke her up she repeatedly asked me not to call the cops, and she lived just two blocks away. I walked her home and she walked up her stairs to her apt under her own power. But even a good deed done for a stranger makes the extreme hate me all the more. Fine by me. She could have always been found by a UVA frat boy in the wee hours of the morning. That worked out so well for Susan's daughter - and Yeardley Love - right?
Sean attended a more liberal school (Wisconsin) in a a more liberal city (Madison) and a more liberal state, but somehow U.Va. is the "extreme partisan left."
Yep, I remember how students at U.Va. truck bombed the Math-Physics building and killed a talented physics post-doc because of their extreme leftist ideology.
Oh wait, that was at Sean's alma mater. But that was before his time and before the school's takeover by the left.
Jimmy Jackson makes valid points. There are plenty of valid criticisms of how U.Va. protects its students and/or its image, just as there are valid criticisms of the practice of abortion. Unfortunately, Sean is incapable of distinguishing valid criticisms from gross overgeneralizations, inaccurate assertions, and general cluelessness.
Sean, please get this in your head (though I am sure I will fail).
1. The student that died is none of your business. You have no involvement in the manner as a medical, legal, personal or professional settings. You have no authority to presume what you think as a fact. You continue to offend the deceased's families, friends and others, and you seem to have no shame doing it. Charlottesville is certainly made a worse place to live in thanks to your ridiculous and offensive nonsense.
2. You have no affiliation with the University of Virginia. You have no experience as a student at the University of Virginia. You displayed your ignorance about the political beliefs of students with stating UVA is a "extreme left partisan school". You displayed your complete unfamiliarity with the school culture by stating that "In UVA, drug is cool".
3. You continue to display astounding legal ineptitude in claiming UVA has some way of covering up the Huguely trial. The prosecutor in the case called for sealing of records to avoid tainting the jury pool, and this principle has been explained to you countless times. Yet you continue to insist that Casteen played a hand in mind controlling Chapman in sealing the records so UVA won't look bad, as if covering up this affair would make UVA looks like a saint. FYI, it doesn't.
I am shocked and surprised that the pro-life movement would willing associate themselves with one of the worst conspiracy theorists I have ever seen. Dissociation with reality is a psychiatric disorder. I suggest you seek help.
UVA students: Do yourselves a favor- transfer to Glenn Beck University
http://www.glennbeck.com/becku/
(It is Casteen free, for now)
While driving on the Illinois interstate, a young womans car passed us. On the back window was a sticker indicating some college. I thought of her youth and Yeardly Love and was sad.
Hmmmm said:
"There’s no point in getting mad at Sean, or at anyone online. There are supposedly over 5 billion internet sites on the World Wide Web. To take too seriously what anyone posts about anyone online is to not understand how large the internet is.
I compare road rage to internet rage. It’s just not worth getting enraged about anything that anyone says online.
Example? Shannon Stoy."
_____
Exactly. People who get involved in these long winded back and forth internet fights in the comments section of a small town independent publication seriously have NO life and NO perspective. One or two comments is fine, disagreeing with somebody is fine, I've done that too, but these long winded back and forth knock down drag out printed word fights where the number of comments climbs into the hundreds is just ridiculous. It reminds me of this comic:
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~kmg357/pictures/xkcd2/xkcd22.png
"Are you coming to bed?"
"I can't, this is important."
"What?"
"Someone is WRONG on the internet!!!"
Something to keep in mind, people. Get some perspective. Find a hobby. Or two.
"life without parole"? Not much of a punishment, in my opinion.
Sean,
Do you ever realize that you have never once provided evidence or a source for any of your outrageous claims?
The toxicology report is none of your business. That's the bottom line. Get over it and find a hobby.
*I’m betting UVA will do everything in its power to $ee to it that this Huguely/Love case never goes to trial, as it would reveal too much about what lies beneath.*
I accept your bet.
Recent additions to Sean's litany of creepy 45-year-oldisms: "I regularly hang out with two other UVA profs. My human rights group at UVA meets ... in Alderman Library, but our first one of the new semester is likely going to a BBQ in late August on the Lawn - where one of our officers moves in soon. The UVA undergrad who I share a small 2br with doesn’t share your share your silly partisan hatred for me. ... As a random sample, I attended Fridays After 5 with two UVA grad students last night, hung out briefly with both them and one of my professor friends thereafter downtown, and spent the last few hours of the night with a Class of 2010 graduate watching her boyfriend’s band."
Sean has so many cool friends!
(He's 45, people.)
Hahaha,
Also, did you accuse THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA of being an extreme left wing school?
You really have no idea what you're talking about. You're clearly not a wahoo.
Some logical fallacies and cognitive biases demonstrated by Sean:
1. Hasty Generalization: arguing from the special case to a general rule. "Because it's true that some UVA students drink, drug, and murder, it must be that UVA in general condones/turns-a-blind-eye to this behavior."
2. Confirmation bias: tendency to interpret info based on preconceptions. "Because I distrust UVA and its motives, a murder involving UVA students builds upon and offers evidence for my distrust."
3. Appeal to motive: questioning a claim based on the motive (no matter how unknown) of the proposer. "You cannot trust the claims of UVA (or The Hook) because UVA/The Hook have a motive to cover-up bad information."
4. Cherry picking: "I'll use special cases of UVA people's poor behavior to draw conclusions, while not using the far more common cases of UVA people's behavior being fine."
Etc, etc.
Its ok, guys. Sean knows he can't come up with anything substantial, so he changes the subject to VCCS guaranteed admission program. Clearly another chance to demonstrate his "honor, honesty and ethics"!
JK,
Princeton Review is headquartered in Framingham, Massachusetts. I am not sure they even have an office at Princeton, New Jersey.
JK,
Your arguments about the "pervasive influence" Princeton somehow has inside Princeton Review would hold more water if Katzman is actually managing the company. Just because you have been to a few of Princeton's parties does not mean that they should have been on the "top party school" list. Consider that all the schools on the list are large public schools. And no, their SAT courses do not specifically recommend Princeton to their students. I know you are sorely disappointed, but please, from your spiels you do not know much at all about TPR, and I would advise you from talking about things that you don't know much about.
Obviously choice of college should be left to the student and his/her feelings about specific colleges. There are no arguments against that. But just as people use US News Top Colleges for college choices, they will use any other rankings out there, including TPR.
Thinks all of the kids today are on dope
- Sean
- Mr. Hand
Sean, you can't even spell Guaranteed right. Ha, "Guarranteed." Those R's are tricky don't feel bad.
And JJ Malloy, you are so right on.
Morgan Harrington got national news but not the way Yeardley did.
Let me correct my post from above by re-postint it below!
_______________________________
Well, Morgan Dana Harrington didn’t exactly just go ââ?¬Å?missing”.
She was a likely victim of rape wasn’t she?
And she was a victim of equal violence.
Both women were from affluent homes.
I think the difference was that in some warped way, Love was considered to be from a male/female UVa lacrosse ââ?¬Å?family.” Weird! So she got an avalanche of support from UVa male and female lacrosse players, UVa athletes, and UVa fans, even though it was a member of the UVa lacrosse ââ?¬Å?family” that killed her, wasn’t it?
Whereas, Morgan Dana Harrington apparently didn’t have a boyfriend even. She was kind of a solitary figure.
It may be worrisome, but it's not terribly new. The "yellow journalism" of the Hearsts and Pulitizer emphasized sensationalized crimes in a way that no newspaper would today.
of course someone cant wait to call attention to their hopes of george being raped in prison..."justice porn" maybe? thats creepy.
Realist, exhibit a: Sisk/Allred.
booo!, you've got an excellent point and it's definitely true that society is much more desensitized to depictions of violence and gory details than in the past. It's a chicken or egg question, however, of what the cause of this is.
But local media outlets covering and actual murder have a valid argument to say that it serves the public interest to know these details.
Didn't the Hook basically distribute 100% of its printed papers for the issue with Love on the cover? Within 3 or 4 days of publication? People are fascinated by true crime. That said, there really doesn't seem to be much in the released warrants that wasn't reported on two months ago. Of course, that won't stop people from speculating about the purpose of the passport or the details of the shirt.
Actually, speaking for myself I didn't/couldn't read the article in full once I realized the extent of the details it was getting into. I skimmed. Same goes with the Progress this morning when I saw it here at my work. I frowned and tossed it back down, unable to read. So apparently I don't have the same base desires that others do. I don't think it's right to get into that level of detail, it's not necessary.
@ Yes: In my original comment I did say that the attempt to mold us into a voyeuristic society has been going on for years, so that would include what was going on early in the 20th century as well. If anything things really kicked up a few notches at the turn of the 20th century in terms of various aspects of social engineering and the manipulation of all aspects of society at large. Too much to get into here.
I long for a media-less world. 99% of what we're shown and told via the media we don't actually need to know, and that goes for "legit" "news" as well, not just the sensationalistic tabloid level stories.
We all get it, Sean. You want Virginia's public universities to be run like right-wing theocracies.
In my post I was trying to point out that people's fascination with violence, real or make-believe is hardly new.
Look at some old, old newspaper accounts of murders, or of lynchings.
For that matter go the Daily Progress in 1904 when they covered the murder of his wife by former Charlottesville Mayor Samuel McCue. About how he poisoned her, blasted her with a shotgun, and clubbed her with a baseball bat. And also the coverage of his hanging.
@Mark: No. A justice system based on revenge seems a little outdated to me.
Ok other than filling the local tabloids space and getting more eyes on their pages how has the public benefited from the withheld police reports.
John Casteen has once again been successful in keeping what was in Mr. Huguely’s blood stream that night a well guarded UVA secret.
***
Except that a) Casteen wasn't involved in the sealing of the warrants as has been explained to you dozens of times and b) the search warrants were requested by media outlets, not the toxicology reports.
Deleted by moderator.
"I understand that the rubber-necking sensation-seeking public WANTS to know these things, but how exactly do we NEED to know these things?"
Interesting how different we treat a "solved" case like this versus an unsolved case like MH's. Both are full of "murder porn" but we ding The Hook for sensationalism on this one but treat the MH torrent of info as necessary to keep the public safe.
@Hollow Boy: I know this is going to sound sarcastic but I'll say it anyway. But you seem unable to differentiate between real life and what you refer to as "pop culture." Yeardley Love was a real person, not a pop culture TV show character only pretending to be maimed or killed. This isn't entertainment. Yeardley, Morgan, they were real people. And out of respect for their brief - but very real - lives they led, as well as their families, I find the unnecessary and gruesome details being splayed out on the front page of the newspaper, or as a feature in the Hook, or in any publication for that matter, to be rude and obnoxious. This isn't Spartacus, Xena, Dragnet, old westerns, slasher movies. It's not actors and actresses pretending. It's real life. Real people. Let's learn to differentiate between the two. Thank you.
Hoolarious, my WE is my attempt at a common position I sense from the posters. I agree that there is a lot of corn a poppin'. I just think it's interesting that many of the posters here seem to question the inclusion of lurid details as pornographic and perhaps inappropriate or hard to stomach. Yet with the MH case, many posters want to get as much info distributed to bring the killer to "justice."
Personally, I think the details here on the GH case are fine. Murder is prosecuted by the state (that is, us, citizens) and it's appropriate for the public to understand just how awful murder is. After all, we're one generation away from savagery and it's good to be reminded of our baser instincts as (hopefully) a defense against them.
"it’s appropriate for the public to understand just how awful murder is. After all, we’re one generation away from savagery and it’s good to be reminded of our baser instincts as (hopefully) a defense against them."
That seems to me to be a weak attempt at justifying the inclusion and the consumption of titillating details like what she was or wasn't wearing when her body was found. I find it very hard to believe that humans don't have enough constant daily reminders of the depravity we're capable of -- that without this news story and others like it (about real people), we'd somehow not understand what one set of human hands can do to another human being.
I think the line separating what citizens need to know, in order to be safe, and what citizens want to know, has been erased. I need to know that someone killed MH and is still on the loose. I probably also need to know the circumstances under which she disappeared (where, when, etc.). If she was killed in a manner that indicates the killer is likely to do it again to someone else, I need to know that. These are all safety issues for me. Do I NEED to know ALL the gory details of a case of an obsessed boyfriend murdering his girlfriend, when he's in jail and not particularly like to pose a threat to me? No, I really don't. I had more than enough information before the news organizations got these warrants unsealed. They're not doing any public service here.
boooo! and hoolarious, you both have good points and I learned from your perspectives. thank you for posting intelligently.
Like I've said before, the vast majority of people in Coke-Ville and at UVA support these cover ups 100%. They don't want anyone to know how exactly it is that two young students at their school are dead now, or what was probably the essential reason that Mr. Huguley went so insane and did such a thing at 3 am. The time of night these things happen (including his previous assaults) tells you pretty much all you need to know.
But that's AOK with most folks around here, as long as what lies beneath is kept hidden at an extreme left partisan school like UVA. Nobody has any doubts at UVA how completely wacked out Huguely was on that night. But you'll notice that even Ms. Love's friends have kept the UVA code of silence intact as to where he was and where he got what was in his system that night. It's an integral part of the culture. A culture that, as we can see again in this case, is supported and enforced by the UVA administration at its highest levels.
Anywhere else in the country, the toxicology reports would be front page news in both these cases where a young life was cut short needlessly. But not here. Here, it won't be news at all unless some national media outlet decides they don't care about Mr. Casteen's policy to protect an image of the extreme left partisan school he has made in his image no matter how many students end up dead - or graduate as full blown drug addicts.
Hopefully, one of them will have the guts - and UVA will be forced to look itself in the mirror and come to terms with what Mr. Casteen has made it.
extreme left partisan school like UVA.
***
Typcially, the most liberal public universities in this country are seen as UC-Berkeley, Wisconsin-Madison (Sean's alma mater), and perhaps Colorado-Boulder.
If anything, U.Va. is seen as a somewhat conservative Southern school.
My god in broad day light? As Sean likes to say: The time these things happen tells you pretty much all you need to know. Someone getting strangled and stabbed in broad day light seems alot more physcotic then someone under the influence getting into a (horribly) physical confrontation with an ex-girlfriend. NOT that I am defending Huguely AT ALL.
But I am glad there are people on here posting rational, thought out comments (such as YES and Jake) instead of biased and ridiculous opinions (Sean).
The sad thing is some of Sean's points and arguments aren't totally off base. He just lacks any credibility because of the ridiculousness of his other claims.
ROFL. Glenn Beck.
At least you have a sense of humor.
I wish someone would post a picture of Sean somewhere. I think I know who he is. Someone I met in a bar a few years ago. I did my best to avoid him after that and also did my best to forget the guy's name, so I'm not 100% sure. I still see him. I just want to make sure we're laughing at the right person when I point him out to friends.
@S Jones - don't completely understand your post as usual, but I do understand the point of "compassion" and maybe how you feel that others here have not portrayed that in their posts here. I choose to ignore such posts. I hope you will, too.
"wrong", what did s jones do? Sometimes he does seem harsh but at least he is showing compassion in this comment section.
He knows what he has done.
It hasn't tainted the jury pool with lurid details that prejudice the Defendant and force the trial to be moved elsewhere.
Just stumbled upon this discussion. Have not been part of this discussion and don't like being referenced in the discussion.
Sean, Meghan Sullivan, Daisy -- none of you have responded to my emails. I want to know why you are using me and my daughter to promote your agenda. Please stop using Kathryn as your poster child for the wrongs of UVA. I don't appreciate strangers talking about her case, especially when they are not knowledgeable of the case details.
Do I have an issue with the way UVA handles crime? Yes. Do I want to be associated with either right to life or right to choose groups? No.
Hey George. Bubba is waiting for you at Greenville. Let's see if you can throw him around like you did Ms Love. I'd bet against it.
I can see it now. Huguely's ambulance chasers claiming that the REAL killer, a cop or other person with access to the crime scene after the photo was taken, took the missing t-shirt because it had his and Ms Love's blood on it. "If the shirt isn't around, not guilty Huguely must be found!" Problem is, you'd have a hard time finding 12 Charlottesville jurors as dumb as the ones OJ got in LA. Or would you?
Why is the media nowadays so into revealing every gory detail of every crime that takes place?? The media has been hell bent for years now to turn this into a voyeuristic society where Joe Public gets to peek into the crime scene courtesy of a blow-by-blow recap of every grisly detail. It's almost like "murder porn" or something for those who are into hearing about that sort of thing. This same blow-by-blow grisly recap was also on the front page of today's Progress. Things didn't used to be this way. It's a deliberate reshaping of society via social engineering.
How does it serve the public interest to know these details? to know what she was or wasn't wearing? or how much blood appeared to be around the room?
I understand that the rubber-necking sensation-seeking public WANTS to know these things, but how exactly do we NEED to know these things?
ummmm.....
Ya got me, actually. I'm stumped.
I'm sure SOMEONE could make the argument, however, somehow.....
Anyone?
Hell, we're reading the article, aren't we?
Yeah, we are reading the article: because we're rubberneckers. Me included. But that doesn't mean the media should cater to our basest desires. Unless all they want to do is make money. Which is what capitalism is all about, so I guess if it makes money, it's automatically good.
And there is in fact no good reason why any of us unrelated persons need to know this level of detail.
On another topic, I'm wondering if anyone has ever followed up on the fact that the Daily Progress, when it FIRST posted pdf copies of the search warrants, posted them without redacting the witness's names or GH's SS#. They were up on the DP website for about 24 hours in that unredacted form. Anyone who clicked on those pdfs during that time period still presumably has copies of those documents on their computers, with that information unredacted. Is that a major fail on the part of the DP? Did they violate any kind of journalistic standard or procedure? or is it the police's fault for releasing an unredacted copy of the search warrant, or for allowing unredacted copies to get out there? After about 24 hours, the unredacted copies were replaced by redacted ones, and then they disappeared altogether (presumably because the court order sealing those warrants went into effect).
"How does it serve the public interest to know these details? to know what she was or wasn’t wearing? or how much blood appeared to be around the room? "
As retort stated we are reading the article. We are naturally curious and try to understand tragedies.
Do we need to know? No.
Do most people want to read or hear about the gory details? I would vote yes.
It has been this way throughout history.
Hoolarious is right, the DP doesn't care about the law, what was done, who got hurt or our constitutional rights. They just want to make their bucks selling their papers; so much for any responsibility on their part!
Just like he has with the student who dropped dead in a frat house in April.
***
Sean, did it make you feel good when this student's father publicly criticized your ignorance and insensitivity in April?
Witnesses who were with her earlier in the night said she was wearing it..how did it get off then? And why was a golf tee found at the apt when George was golfing earlier..?
Whats up with the passport?
What could item #1 possibly be that they wont tell us?
The STARZ TV network had a series recently entitled "Spartacus: Blood and Sand". It should have been rated triple XXX simply due to the extreme violence. And the series actually makes the Taliban look like birthday party clowns. Why was the show so popular? Because it is a part of history and people wanted to see it. The Huguely case will be history soon, and people will want all the details in living color when the movie is finally made.
The days of Leave It To Beaver, Andy Griffith and the Ed Sullivan Show are pretty much over and gone forever. People want to see, hear and read about violence. Welcome to 2010!
Manbearpig wrote, "Interesting how different we treat a ââ?¬Å?solved” case like this versus an unsolved case like MH’s. Both are full of ââ?¬Å?murder porn” but we ding The Hook for sensationalism on this one but treat the MH torrent of info as necessary to keep the public safe."
Who's WE, manbearpig? I don't treat the MH torrent as nececssary info. I find the ghoulish dwelling on the details of her death repugnant and unnecessary as well. It's all just popcorn for a lot of board cybersleuths. Better than a mystery novel!
Violence in popular culture is hardly knew. The Iliad comes to mind. Come to think about it there's a lot of violence in the Bible.
As they say, Art imitates Life, and vice versa.
Early TV wasnt all the shows mentioned. How about the shoot-em-up Westerns, especially the "adult" Westerns? And Dragnet.
Maybe violence today is more graphic and explicit, and I agree often gratuitous, like in the "slasher" movies.
Spartacus is likely popular because there are so many Lucy Lawless fans who were heartbroken when Xena was cancelled(another violent show).
And don't forget the popularity of the James Bond movies.
@manbearpig: But the people questioning things in this comment section, of which included me, were NOT also people salivating at the mouth for more info. about Morgan's murder. You're making a link that's akin to a straw man here. Yes, many people out there were/are obsessed with the details of the MH case. (didn't include me.) But that has nothing to do with the few here (which did include me) who questioned the gory and unnecessary details of the YL case being prominently put out there. In this instance the YL details just came across as gratuitous. Unnecessary. Can't reiterate that word enough.
Comparing the MH to the YL case is also like comparing apples and oranges. One was classified as an unresolved, missing person disappearance for three months. That's what drew in so many people, both genuinely concerned citizens and looky-loo keyboard warrior cybersleuths with nothing better to do. There were no gory details for the longest time, and then when her body was finally found the only real thing to report was that it was mostly skeletonized. The YL case is obviously different. There are actual crime scene details of a violent nature to report. But the question is - should they be reported the way they are being reported, prominently put on the front page of the newspaper and in internet articles? Or should it be more discreet and respectful to the victim and families? Does the public *really* need to know the details? I say no. Others say yes. Although ultimately it doesn't matter I suppose since it's already been done.
Curious question for anyone opposed to the death penalty: does this case, or Morgan Harrington's murder, do anything to change your view?
Dot and Yes - I've got more bad news..
Sean just so happens to be a graduate of the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He was likewise a member of a fraternity once. But he quit after a few weeks once he saw what it was all about - and what was expected of him.
In Madison we drank. Yes, we sure did. But it 99% beer at the student union by the lake, pitchers in the bars, or keg parties on West Mifflin - where I lived. There was some pot you would see at a party occasionally. That's it. I never saw coke or any other illegal drug there even once.
There is no comparing UW to UVA. The kids here arrive with the money we could have never dreamed of, and a sense of entitlement, arrogance, and privilege that was and is as foreign to us cheddar as anything. And that translates directly ito lots of coke, and lots of experimentation with all sorts of over the counter drugs mixed with red bull and rial vodka (yuck!) The Greek system is tiny in Madison. Here it is the center of social life in the dorms the first few years, and thereafter. It is difficult to avoid and not get sucked into.
Nice try...
Here's the Princeton Review's complete list of top party schools:
1. Pennsylvania State University
2. University of Florida
3. University of Mississippi
4. University of Georgia
5. Ohio University
6. West Virginia University
7. The University of Texas at Austin
8. The University of Wisconsin-Madison
9. Florida State University
10. University of California-Santa Barbara
Read more at Suite101: Top American Party Schools for 2009-2010: Penn State Tops Princeton Review's College Ranking http://campuslife.suite101.com/article.cfm/top_american_party_schools_fo...
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What, no, U.Va.? Nice try, unless of course Sean (who apparently now refers to himself in the third person) thinks that binge drinking on college campuses isn't a problem.
Here's what the student paper says,
"(Badger Herald) (U-WIRE) MADISON, Wis. -- University of Wisconsin-Madison students love their liquor, according to a campus foundation attempting to create awareness of the consequences of high-risk drinking.
Thursday, members of the Robert Wood Johnson Project met in Memorial Union to discuss possible ways to reduce excessive drinking at UW.
Project members proposed a number of policy initiatives involving reducing drinking, including a keg registration that would require the purchaser sign a statement of liability. ”Š "
Geez, I wonder how many birth defects are caused by excessive alcohol consumption?
Oh my God. Sean writes, "In Madison we drank. Yes, we sure did. But it 99% beer at the student union by the lake, pitchers in the bars, or keg parties on West Mifflin - where I lived. There was some pot you would see at a party occasionally. That’s it. I never saw coke or any other illegal drug there even once."
The idea that there wasn't coke at Madison -- the implication that it was relatively coke-free, or "illegal drug" free, or hard liquor free, b/c Sean Cannan himself didn't see it "even once" -- is really funny. Sean needs other schools to be fairly innocent in order to heighten the profound evilness (his notion thereof) of UVa. I'm still kind of laughing, though, at the idea of UW being a coke-free zone. Let me catch my breath here....okay, I'm back.
If folks haven't figured it out yet, here it is: Sean Cannan is Charlottesville's own Westboro Baptist Church, all by himsel. but instead of homosexuality, he's obsessed with women's sexuality: women having sex outside of marriage using birth control is evil, in his book. Women having abortions are evil. But he knows people don't like preachy moralism, so he latches onto a supposedly scientific/medical basis for opposing birth control and abortion, and he pretends he cares about women whom he alleges are being duped by pharmaceutical companies and (bafflingly) John Casteen. He pretends to give a damn about the alleged health effects of birth control pills. He pretends to care about Morgan Harrington and Yeardley Love because they give him an opportunity to rail on John Casteen, with whom he appears obsessed, yet again. But what if MH and YL were using birth control? What if they had ever had abortions? Oh holy night, the language you would hear about their whoring ways and the eternal damnation waiting for them.
To recap: he is Westboro Baptist Church. and also? this man is 45 years old. Let me repeat that: he is 45, and he is OBSESSED with the sexual activities of college-aged women.
ugh.
Sean has a point. U.Va. needs to be led by an arch-conservative such as Donna Shalala.
Barbara,
What I mean by low-key is the drug scene at the university is under-ground. Every universities have a drug scene, and there is no denying UVA has a drug scene. What Sean Cannan here is making UVA out to be is that hard drugs are found at every single parties, and that students are rolling around in drug-induced haze every Monday morning. That is patently untrue. If you want drugs, you have to work hard to find it. Most students do not see hard drugs. ever.
And when Sean says UW-Madison does not have a hard drug scene... Lets just say that qualifies as one of the more absurd statements he has made, and there have been quite a few of them. UW's drug scenes are at the same level as UVA: underground.
"Paxiltown".
I am glad to have attracted some of the cowards who run UVA to this forum that cannot strap on a pair of testes and so much as use their real names. Interesting, huh? You'd think that such "elite" thinkers at such a "top" university would at the very least be proud to put their names behind their slander and their fervent attempts to keep what goes on at their school covered up. But that aint gunna happen - now is it?
UW has indeed been taken down the road to nowhere since I left. They are the ones who pioneered embryonic and fetal stem cell research that has killed thousands and produced absolutely nothing in terms of results the past 20 years. Cutting little people to bits to sell them for spare parts is, sadly, always going to be on UW's record as a school who embraced Nazi medicine for profit - with no advantage ever gained for anyone other than the people there who got lots of government money for selling corpse parts. I am in regular communication with Amanda Detry and her fine corps of human rights activists in Madison as well as ours here. I have not ignored the atrocities at my alma mater, nor have a dedicated and fearless group of current students there. Human rights are surviving in Madison also thanks to some brave folks willing to take a very corrupt school on - same as here.
http://www.facebook.com/search/?post_form_id=c9968fb7d1c369829122c493edc7f464&q=maya&init=quick_preload#!/photo.php?pid=55596422&op=1&o=all&view=all&subj=34632810994&aid=-1&oid=34632810994&id=8649019
But toxicology reports are still news there, and local media does not play along with what the administration wants them not to cover. It's still a town that has decent, humane journalists that actually cover the full story when there are young people who die long before their time. Charlottesville is decidedly NOT that kind of place. Thus, it will keep happening. And that is very much by design. Caskets or no caskets, a silly reputation for honor and honesty will be protected - even if it's at least 20 years since it existed.
Does anyone here, besides the cowards at UVA whose opinion we already know (but whose identity they will keep secret because they are cowards), think that the toxicology reports in either needless death at UVA the past few months should be kept secret forever?
Why? Explain to everyone why this needs to be the only place in the country where such details are shrouded in mystery, and local media doesn't dare approach any of it. If my very common sense theories as to how and why this happens are so totally off base, then it should be really easy for any of you to explain why this happens - and only happens here - and clear this up for everybody.
simple, no?
Query: My daughter (who chose not to attend UVA, but we all were impressed by it) told me that her friends who do attend there refer to a tradition known as "Fourth & Fifth" (or maybe it is "Fifth & Fourth). According to her friends, the tradition is that at their very last home football game in Charlottesville, UVA seniors (well, not all) drink a fifth of liquor during the fourth quarter...hence "Fourth & Fifth" (or whatever). Does anyone know if this is simply folklore, or a real tradition for (some) seniors at UVA? No doubt other universities have similar alcohol-related traditions. If true, has the university's administration attempted anything to discourage it?
Dot, please don't think I'm misinterpreting your thinking about Yeardley's murder because I do think you consider it to have been a terrible act. But I have to say that, as a mother of two adults not long out of college, I view her murder as horrific as anything I've heard in quite awhile. Why? When parents send a son or daughter to a respected university like UVA, they expect that child to be safe under normal circumstances. Sleeping in one's own bed is a normal circumstance, and I don't think most parents even consider the possibility that another UVA student/boyfriend (or ex-boyfriend) from a "background" like George Huguely's would actually kill a girl with his bare hands. Consequently, it's a scarier situation to me than walking down the street and noticing someone who appears dangerously "psychotic." From what I've heard and read, George had developed quite a drinking and/or drug problem, along with a very bad temper and extremely aggressive behavior--not to mention his altercation with a police officer. It's disturbing to me that he was allowed to remain on campus and participate in UVA sports as if nothing were out of the ordinary. I think UVA is accountable to a large degree.
The Fourth-Year Fifth has been actively discouraged by students leaders and administrators for over a decade. Students sign a pledge not to do it, there's a 5K run held to discourage the practice, etc.
What Makes Toxicology So Slow?
Kanye West's mother died of unknown causes on Nov. 10, but her toxicology report wasn't released until last Thursday. (It was inconclusive.) Meanwhile, the toxicology report for Duvall, Wash., resident Miguel Tamayo-Fajaro, who died Friday night in a gruesome traffic accident on Interstate 405, will not be ready for weeks. If the techies on CSI: Miami can whip up toxicological statements in no time, why does it take so darn long in the real world?
Because there's a backlog. Analysts typically work on multiple cases at the same time, and they're always behind schedule due to staff shortages. For example: The 20-person team at the Washington state toxicology lab, which will handle the Tamayo-Fajaro screening, handles approximately 10,000 cases per year. To make matters worse, toxicologists often serve two masters; when they're not in the lab, they're at court offering expert testimony. In Washington state, lab scientists may spend as much as two days a week on the witness stand while their blood samples languish in a refrigerator.
Thorough tox reports require lots of effort. First off, labs try to collect at least 25 mL of heart blood, 10 mL of peripheral blood, and 50-gram tissue samples from the subject's brain, liver, and kidney. An analyst then carries out an alcohol screening and a generalized immunoassay test, which can detect broad-based drug groups like opiates or tranquillizers. In the event of a positive drug test, the analyst must complete a confirmation procedure, designed to ferret out the exact nature of the offending substance. Next, a supervisor reviews the analyst's report and either approves the conclusions or requests more tests. This whole process, barring glitches or lengthy tests for hard-to-detect drugs like neuromuscular blockers, could take just a couple of days if analysts were able to devote themselves exclusively to a well-preserved specimen. (They rarely get this opportunity.)
http://www.slate.com/id/2182156
***
Oh, so eventually GH V's toxicology results will come back and possibly be used as evidence in court. Fascinating. As for the death of the student whose family Sean Cannan grievously offended, I really don't see how that would be much news anywhere. The deaths of non-notable people in the absence of foul play typically don't get much press coverage beyond the obituary.
This should all change when Sean Cannan launches his desperately needed gossip rag about U.Va. We can only hope that its level of accuracy and sophistication begins to approach that of his website.
A blood sample showed Ms. Baltz's alcohol level was .27 -- over three times the state limit for intoxication. From the internal injuries to her brain, authorities surmised that the honors student had risen from the upstairs couch at some point, then fallen down the apartment stairs, head first.
***
Wait, toxicology reports were released when it was noteworthy? But Sean keeps telling us that U.Va. suppresses this information from media coverage.
I think this crime is boring, frankly.
He killed her.
The body was found.
He's been found.
He admitted he attacked her.
He was caught with her computer.
He was so angry that he punched a hole in her door!
His attorneys are stuck.
All his attorneys can do is try to invent an excuse to try to bail him out of a hopeless situation.
_________________________________________
So can we talk a little about Morgan Harrington?
Does the fact that the police were probably forced to release the sketch of the man who assaulted the woman in Fairfax in 2005 mean that Morgan's killer has escaped FOR GOOD!
It's interesting that Sean mentions Susan as he repeatedly tried to insult her for having reasonable views on emergency contraception for rape victims.
Alright, enough is enough. I am one of Joe Arwood's best friends, if not his best friend. I am absolutely disgusted by what I have read on this thread coming from Sean - this after he polluted the Cav Daily thread with his insensitive comments and was rebuked by me, Joe's father, and many others. You have ABSOLUTELY offended the deceased, his family, and his friends - I'm sorry I can't constantly troll around the Hook's message boards along with his other friends to constantly monitor your filth. I will tell you that you know absolutely nothing about what happened that morning, and there is absolutely no reason why you should know. Bet you didn't know that Joe was seen snoring on a couch that morning, did you? And his brothers absolutely called 911 when they found him unresponsive. And the toxicology report has not come back yet, as you have been told numerous times, including by Joe's own father. I myself have no clue what the results of that will hold - but you know what? No one is perfect. And just because someone may have had "one too many" (which we don't even know is the case - some signs point toward a freak accident) does not mean they deserve to die. I am sickened by what I just read. I was there, at the hospital. I spoke to police. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Sean, YOU are a coward. Get off of this message board. You are an absolute disgrace.
This is great - The Colorado Springs Gazette publishes a story that says that the coroner's office says that it "appears" that the son of someone involved in a tabloid news story consumed alcohol and marijuana before his death and "may" have used prescription drugs and states that the person died of a drug and alcohol overdose, and Sean is citing this as a responsible story. Gee, I wonder why some people would prefer to see actual toxicology results before reaching such a final opinion on the subject.
By the way, Colorado Springs is considered to actually be one of the most conservative cities in this country. It is the site of the headquarters of Focus on the Family, for example. And Freedom Communications, publisher of the Gazette, has a stated editorial policy of promoting a conservative and libertarian viewpoint.
Except that your comments leave quite a bit to be desired in the realm of "honor", "honesty", and "ethics".
We certainly shudder, Sean, from derisive laughter.
I'm getting psyched for the launch of Sean's right-wing tabloid gossip rag. It's going to shatter the local media unintentional comedy record set by the Jeff Peyton-era Observer.
There's no point in getting mad at Sean, or at anyone online. There are supposedly over 5 billion internet sites on the World Wide Web. To take too seriously what anyone posts about anyone online is to not understand how large the internet is.
I compare road rage to internet rage. It's just not worth getting enraged about anything that anyone says online.
Example? Shannon Stoy.
I've decided that Sean's anger at UVa has something to do with UVa's policy on abortion. I don't care one way or another about abortion. :) And even if I did, it's the internet! readthehook.com and thecavalierdaily.com are just two out of 5-8 billion World Wide Web sites. Sean can't post on 5-to-8 billion internet sites all by himself.
I like reading Sean's posts. He's not boring at least. :)
omg
LE forgot to take YL's shirt???
no wonder Morgan's case hasnt been solved.
thank god a farmer happened to find her body or we still wouldn't have that.
-----------------------------
Hmmm July 9th, 2010 | 3:54 am
"Why do you think the Facebook site for the deceased UVa female lacrosse player almost IMMEDIATELY got over twice as many friends as the Find Morgan Facebook site did?
Any comments on this? Did it have anything to do with the way that Morgan Harrington was dressed at the concert? I have to ask this."
----------------------
I'd like to answer that Hmmm:
it's because more people can relate to a domestic violence
than they can to a girl going missing fromm a Metallica concert.
it has nothing to do with what Morgan was wearing.
btw- the only skin she was showing was her hands and face.
YL, was in her underwear.
Many rape victims are sleeping in their own beds when they are attacked.
rape is not about sex or what someone is wearing.
80 year old women get raped.
rape is about control & rage against women.
The sketch guy in Morgan's case-
when he raped the woman in 2005,
she was conservatively dressed (per her ethnic background)
just walking home from the store.
It would be great to see thehook start charging for their paper and have a sportswriter. Two more steps toward replacing The Daily Progress and puttint it OUT OF BUSINESS!
yes whateva! I ignore such post as well unless the person does it to start a confrontation, which we no no one would do! Right . I feel so strongly for Yardley Loves family right now. Having never lost someone close to me , I do not even know if I have the right to say All I can say I am sorry and I hope the bastard gets life without parole!
posts should show some compassion S Jones? Really? How do you sleep at night knowing what you did?
S.Jones,
I agree with you completely on the need for everyone to think carefully about what they post with regard to both Ms.Love and Ms.Harrington. They both have families and friends whose lives are devastated by the simple contemplation of what they endured before they died as well as their loss.
However, I must disagree with you on your comment...
" Never wise to use the word suicide. "
Health professionals are taught now that when someone in bereavement or is at a point of low energy or somber, to specifically assess them for suicide potential by saying.... "Have you thought about hurting yourself ?" Most will respond by saying certainly not, but some who were considering this can be identified and placed on a path where they can receive help. Mentioning suicide to them is felt by experts not to be giving them an idea which they have not already considered. The unexpected of violent death of a young person often has a ripple effect which translates into depression, departure from school, increased drug and alcohol use and potential for suicide.
Thankyou for your attempts to keep the post article comments focused, civil and decent, as many of them spiralled off the track into irrational bullying. It is sad to think that a parent somewhere is paying for a son to go to college, to gather superior writing skills, which the kid uses to roast Sean. Great use of time folks.
"Confused", it has made them more curious than ever, that's what its done!