Murder at UVA: George Huguely, Yeardley Love, and Lacrosse's Worst Case Scenario
Yeardley Love and George Huguely.UVA SPORTS
Imagine the families. Chevy Chase, Maryland and Cockeysville, Maryland are only about an hour apart. George Huguely and Yeardley Love had been dating for some time. The families had to have met, right?
Now, in the wake of Yeardley Love's death–- allegedly at the hands of her boyfriend, George Huguely–- imagine the interactions between the two families. If it hasn't happened already, at some point, it will. They'll cross paths, and familiar looks will be replaced with downward gazes, stifled emotions. Should they speak, think of the fumbled words, the tears, the heads shaking.
The Huguely family would likely want to apologize, and the Love family might want to forgive. But truthfully, nobody could muster the courage or coherence for that conversation. What can you say?
It's a tragedy of unspeakable proportions.
And for me, it's oddly personal, with a connection to my own experiences that makes it nearly impossible to write about, but impossible to ignore. Personal because I'd met the young man accused of murder. Because I have friends that knew Yeardley and George well. And because looking at it objectively, George Huguely fits a profile that I've grown up with for the past 10-15 years. ”š”šIt's one thing when a superstar like Ben Roethlisberger is accused of rape. He's an icon. Perhaps an icon of chauvinism and recklessness, but an icon nonetheless. There's an enormous reservoir–- filled with cameras, millions of dollars, Super Bowl rings, worldwide fame–- between my reality and his. But with George and Yeardley, it’s more like a puddle separating us. ”š”šGeorge Huguely went to Landon, my high school’s biggest rival. He partied with some of my best friends. In high school he was known as a lacrosse prodigy, and eventually, as the starting quarterback for Landon’s football team. His life may not have been "charmed" on the inside, but from afar, it looked like he had it pretty good. Girls loved him, and guys respected him.
And for me, there’s deep sympathy that resides in close proximity to deep resentment for someone like George. And fair or not, what George Huguely did to Yeardley Love is going to prompt any number of referenda on lacrosse and its accompanying culture, all tinged with arguments about socioeconomics, jock culture, and generally, the sort of murky politics that we always hope sports can avoid.
But as a way of preempting the deluge of moralizing that’s sure to unfold in the coming weeks, I might as well wade into the discussion with something resembling a first-person perspective. First about lacrosse and the accompanying culture, and later, about what happened at UVA.
EXPLAINING THE CULTURE
For better or worse, I’ve grown up going to hundreds of lacrosse parties over the years, forced to acknowledge these "athletes" that looked more like caricatures of a stereotype–- overgrown hair, croakies around their neck, a lacrosse pinnie, pastel-colored shorts, some rainbow flip flops and a backwards hat. (For all the generalizations you hear, nine times out 10, this is actually what they look like.)
Herein begins my sympathy for the culture: They can’t help it. Lacrosse is a sport that’s somewhere between Youth Soccer and Jai Alai. It was created by Native Americans, but perfected by a bunch of Mid-Atlantic prepsters, eager to congratulate themselves on their dominance of a sport that only they can play.
Because of the expensive equipment, and the distinct advantages provided to those that learn the game on suburban travel teams or at expensive prep schools like Landon, the sport remains fairly insular among wealthy children. To excel at lacrosse, it helps to have parents that have the resources to fund the hobby, and the time to cart their children to and from games.
It's true of other sports, too–- hockey, for instance, requires similar time/money commitments from the families of young players–- but the economic divide is more pronounced with lacrosse. If it seems like the sport belongs to different class, that’s because it does; most of the schools that excel are all-boys private schools, with skyhigh tuition (Landon costs $28,000 per year, according to its website), strict dress codes, and large expanses of green field space. Look at the top 10 High School Lacrosse Programs in the country.
1. Georgetown Prep, Bethesda, MD Tuition: $25,650
2. St. Paul's School, Brooklandville, MD Tuition: $21,670
3. West Islip High School, West Islip, New York Tuition: Public
4. The Haverford School, Haverford, PA Tuition: $29,900
5. Conestoga High School, Berwyn, PA Tuition: Public
6. Boy's Latin, Baltimore, MD Tuition: $21,760
7. Manhasset High School, Manhasset, New York Tuition: Public
8. Deerfield Academy, Deerfield, MA Tuition: $32,560
9. St. Anthony's High School, South Huntington, NY Tuition: $7,500
10. Jamesville-Dewitt, Jamesville, NY Tuition: Public
As you can see, at many of the top lacrosse schools in the country, it costs $100,000 to go to high school. And even with the public schools listed above, places like West Islip, Manhassett, and Chester County, PA are not exactly lacking for resources. But it's especially the private, single-sex prep schools–- like Landon–- that shape teens differently. I know this because I went to exactly that sort of school.
In so many ways, these elite, East Coast prep schools–- and the lacrosse teams that dominate their culture–- are the archetype for the American Establishment. Lush with wealth, privilege, and shiny exteriors, they insulate their students from the grayed reality of the "real world." None of this is bad, or evil, but it affects the way many prep schoolers develop, divorced from the realities of normal people, and often times, the realities of the opposite sex.
In this way, it’s difficult to blame any lacrosse players who struggle to adjust to normal society, because for many, they don’t get that far until well after college. Deadspin’s Katie Baker nailed it earlier this week:
Think about the person who grew up in upscale suburban Baltimore, for example. Went to an all boys school, was good at sports, got involved in lax–- which in these "hotbeds" really is the hot thing–- and ultimately got recruited at 4-8 schools, all good ones, most likely, and all places where he probably has former teammates there to tell him how SIIIIIIICK it is. He's kind of bound to be, at best, completely clueless about the larger world.
But regardless of the root causes there, it’s fair to say that lacrosse is a chosen sport for sons and students of the Establishment. And with that comes Entitlement.
CONDEMNING THE CULTURE
I went to a school exactly like Landon, and most of my best friends played lacrosse in high school. Most of those that played in high school also continued to play in college. And while my friends were pretty normal and benign, it put me in close proximity with others from the sport that weren't so awesome.
Ultimately, in my experience, this meant hanging out with a lot of guys–- friends of friends, I guess–- that partied really hard, and treated a lot of people like crap. Girls, non-athletes, authority figures... Pretty much anyone that wasn't one of them either didn't exist, or existed solely as an object of ridicule. Personally, I was somewhere in between, partying as hard as them and rebelling against rules and authority, but (hopefully) stopping short of ever treating anyone like crap.
(Who was I to make fun of anyone? In high school, I played tennis and wrote a blog.)
But some of the others, well... They played lacrosse. In the environment outlined above, that meant something. They were the best athletes in arguably the most important high school sport in the D.C. area. While normal people were sweating out a brutal college application process, these guys were going to college on scholarships, committing to great schools like UVA, Princeton, and Georgetown before the process even began. It seems absurd now, but to a lot of people, those guys seemed to have it all, and they knew it. Because ... (gasp) ... they played lacrosse.
But we'll put aside the big-fish-small-pond dynamic that some of these guys embodied, because the implications for that psychology are more important to this discussion. Again, this is just my experience. But basically, from what I saw, "the guys that played lacrosse" surrounded themselves mostly with people who thought that was really awesome, which meant they could get away with a lot of behavior that'd otherwise be considered pretty reprehensible. No different than athletes from other sports, except that lacrosse draws from a smaller, much wealthier pool of talent.
The corollary to the economic aspect is that many lax stars grow up spoiled, and entitlement becomes a problem much earlier than it does with most basketball or football stars.
By the time college arrives, the "spoils" of the lifestyle have gotten more decadent than just the elevated social status many of them enjoyed in high school. Drugs and alcohol, minimal consequences, preferable treatment from coaches and academic advisors, and the so-called "lacrosstitutes," groupies entranced by the glamor of it all. It's by no means universal to every lacrosse player or every lacrosse program, but in the lacrosse social scene, it's all there. And of course, there's that homogeneous social circle, normalizing this behavior every step of the way.
It's still a small sport, after all. For elite lacrosse players, there are only a handful of elite college programs to choose from, and most of the rosters at those schools include kids from the same elite prep schools they played against in high school. When they get to college, the team functions as a built-in social circle, and often times, it looks a lot like the one they had in high school, only with less rules. What does this mean?
For normal students, going to college is an exercise in broadening perspectives. For lacrosse players, it can often be an exercise in confirming perspectives and values that have been skewed since early in high school. That's a problem.
You might say these are generalizations, but again, I'm only speaking from what I've seen. You don't have to acknowledge my anecdotal evidence as anything more than just that. But keep in mind, I grew up in the same area as Huguely, with many of the same friends, congregating in many of the same places.
And as far as Yeardley Love's death is concerned, this much is fact: George Huguely was an elite lacrosse player that went to an elite prep school, and graduated to join an elite lacrosse program at UVA. If we're to diagnose how and why this happened, those facts bear some relevance.
Nobody's blaming the sport of lacrosse for the murder of Yeardley Love, just as it would have been ridiculous to blame college basketball for what happened at Baylor in 2003, when Carlos Dotson murdered his teammate, Patrick Dennehy. Like the Baylor situation, this was a senseless tragedy that transcends college athletics or even everyday crime. It's the sort of thing that makes us question life and justice, in general.
"How could someone like Yeardley Love get beaten to death?"
George Huguely admitted to breaking into her bedroom, attacking her, and smashing her head against the wall. When he left, she lay lifeless on her bed in a pool of her own blood.
"I mean, how can that happen, ever?"
It's truly gut-wrenching. As in, you can't read the description of the crime without feeling a pain in your stomach. And context only makes it worse. Imagine those families again. By all accounts, these were two young people from a stable background, with strong academic and athletic pedigree, and weeks away from graduating college with a world of potential. Now, both their lives are overwith.
That's not lacrosse's fault.
But if we're looking to understand this tragedy in a way that teaches us anything, lacrosse matters. It's part of the conversation. Given the evidence, George Huguely was clearly a young man with problems. To what extent they were manifested, and how, remains to be seen. Given my relationship to some of his friends, I've heard things, but all that'll trickle out in due time. For now, let's say this: To leave any human being the way he allegedly left Yeardley that night requires both deep-seated psychological problems and a severe emotional detachment.
Diagnosing those issues and their source is someone else's job, but having lived vicariously through a number of friends playing Division 1 lacrosse, and having seen the lifestyles firsthand, it's not hard to see how that culture of excess may have exacerbated whatever problems this kid was facing.
George Huguely may not have felt "entitled" to date Yeardley Love regardless of her objections (that conclusion's too easy), but it's entirely conceivable that lacrosse's entitlement culture, filled with excess, enabled him to turn to drugs and alcohol as a coping mechanism, and without any social repercussions, burying his "issues" deep inside. And make no mistake, whatever happened the night of Huguely's "altercation" with Yeardley Love, some sort of substance abuse contributed to that "emotional detachment" referenced above.
Witnesses have said he'd been seen drinking all day, and don't be surprised if the police report reveals that there were drugs in his system that night. And whatever the case, really, it all points to the same problem, where lacrosse is at least tangentially complicit.
Listen, as I said up front, it's nearly impossible to write about this.
Because of my personal relationships with a lot of people that were active participants in this "culture of excess and entitlement" I'm describing. Because of my sympathies for some of the people that'll be unfairly labeled as a result. Because this is just a few years after the Duke lacrosse scandal dragged the sport through the mud in the media. And because at the end of the day, I grew up in that culture, and participated in it far more than I'd ever care to admit.
But it's also impossible to ignore this stuff. As one friend of George's said the day this news first broke, "I hope there's a better explanation... Regardless, Yeardley Love is not with us anymore, which is sad." Beyond any innuendo about the people involved or the sport as a whole, a 22 year-old girl is gone, and that's horribly sad.
Part of the grieving process involves investigating how, exactly, something like this could happen among two privileged college kids with everything in the world working in their favor.
To that end, we can't look past lacrosse's role. In my experience, the "lacrosse social scene" looks upon alcohol abuse as routine, with marijuana and cocaine ubiquitous, women disposable, and outsiders incidental. Not unlike a fraternity, except that the players at a school like UVA are considered star athletes, operating with significant leeway toward the rules, and ultimately spending most of their time hanging out around people that reinforce their skewed perception of the world.
You could argue that the attitudes and actions stem from a larger disease among entitled rich kids and chauvinistic jocks, and that'd be fair. But so long as you acknowledge that those problems exist, it's not hard to see how lacrosse might act as an incubator for the disease and its symptoms.
The "disease" is not always evil, of course. For the most part, it's just a lot of kids that don't know any better, and haven't had the chance to learn any different.
But it can be dangerous, too. Lines get crossed. Kids do things they don't remember, sometimes bad things, and their friends tell them it's fine. This wasn't the first time that George Huguely had an "altercation" with Yeardley Love. As the Washington Post reports:
Two months before Love's death, two current and one former University of North Carolina lacrosse players intervened to separate Huguely from Love at a party on the U-Va. campus in Charlottesville, according to two sources with knowledge of the incident.
As you continue in that lifestyle, standards get relaxed and you end up having a lot more fun, not worrying about the people you might hurt. Bit by bit, over four years in college, that can shape people. It can allow them to laugh off angry episodes, or bury some deep-seated emotions with an avalanche of partying.
Those emotions don't disappear, though. We're less than two years removed from the sudden death of UVA's team captain, Will Barrow. Teammates hadn't seen any warning signs, and then one day, he was gone. His death was ruled a suicide.
As people progress in this culture, destructive emotions can bubble over without warning. Like Will Barrow. Or Huguely sending threatening e-mails to Yeardley. Add substance abuse to the mix, and things get really, really dangerous. So we ask ourselves:
"How could someone like Yeardley Love get beaten to death? How can that happen, ever?"
We'll never fully understand it. But if I'm answering honestly–- ignoring the scores of decent people who risk indictment by association–- George Huguely's lacrosse background was definitely part of it.
Now, as Virginia prepares to finish their season, I had to speak up. When his team captain committed suicide, UVA head coach Dom Starsia said, "The whole thing is stunning and completely bewildering. We’re just trying to sort this out." You can only imagine what he and the team are team are feeling now, knowing that one of their own allegedly murdered someone.
But here's the thing: it's a lot more stunning than it is bewildering.
Of course there's shock that anything like this could happen, but when you piece together some of the external factors in play, it's not that bewildering to think that a kid with anger issues could ignore a number of red flags, bury his emotions and turn to a reckless lifestlyle, leaving that anger to explode one night in a substance-fueled rage. We're not talking about a completely isolated incident here.
Eight players have been charged with alcohol-related offenses while playing for Coach Starsia, a player's committed suicide, and a player's allegedly killed someone. If we ignore the connections between those three events, and similar problems at other schools, we run the risk of letting Yeardley Love die in vain. Her murder was a senseless tragedy of unspeakable proportions, the sort of thing you simply can't explain or understand.
But if it offers us anything, it's the opportunity to step back and look objectively at the culture of lacrosse at schools like UVA. It's by no means a universal phenomenon, but it's more pervasive than most would like acknowledge. And yet, instead of stepping back, here's UVA, the top ranked team in the country, preparing to play in the NCAA Tournament. I'm sure their hearts are in the right place– playing for the memory of Yeardley– but now's not the time.
Even if I'm wrong about all this pseudo-anthropology and worries about the culture... Even if there is no explanation for any of this, "Yeardley Love is not with us anymore, and that's sad."
UVA and the entire lacrosse world owes it to Yeardley to take a step back, and take an honest look at what happened. It'll be gut-wrenching, but for UVA and college lacrosse, it's time for a gut check.
~
This essay originally appeared in SBNation.com, a professionally reported online sports magazine from the fan perspective. It is republished with permission.
251 comments
It is worth analyzing this case in order to understand not only the actions of one individual, but the contributing factors. When choosing where to send your child to college, the reputation of any college, and how they handle these events matters. In the local community UVA is seen as a frat, party school; with an inordinate emphasis on athletics --fair or not, this is the reality. Many local parents I know, would never consider sending their children there, for this reason.
Restore the Republic...wow.
How dumb are you? How many football, basketball, baseball, etc athletes have gotten in trouble?
I mean really. You are the problem of our society. Judgemental people with no common sense and no compassion. Wow. Your comment really blew me away.
Someone asked how to protect their child from a sociopath? There is only one way. Get your kid/yourself as far away from them as possible. They have no conscience and can not be cured of it.
What happened to Yeardley has nothing to do with lacrosse or being Southern (Maryland, George's home state, is north of the Mason-Dixon line, after all). George Huguely has some deep-rooted problems, and that poor girl was his victim. Examples of domestic violence happen every day. This case brought it up close and personal to all of us. It breaks my heart. Domestic violence doesn't belong to any one tax bracket, sport, or lifestyle. We have to educate our daughters about speaking out and seeking support, and our sons about how to treat women.
What happened to their friends in this situation. Her girlfriends were worried about her and many knew that he had threatened her...why was she alone in her apartment at this time? Where were her roommates? George was at a golf outing, broke a window, smashing beer bottles and talking about going over to her apartment to get her back. Where were his friends, his teammates. Maybe we are missing something here -- not a culture, not monsters, we need to watch out for one and another and be brave enough to step in when something doesn't feel right. One life is now over and another one ruined and someone could have stepped forward and didn't.
Jk, I appreciate your post and thank you for responding.
I have no experience in the areas you mention, but know some of the people who play in Goochland. Mostly I am familiar with Middleburgh, Poolsville, Charlottesviile, Greenwich, San Antonio, Lubbock, West Palm Beach and Colorado State University.
Locally, Sam Shepard played polo and I never, actually, knew until sometime later that he is/was a movie star. No one really cared. I don't own a TV, so I am less than conversant on movie stars, but Sam is a friend and his career to me is secondary to the friendship. Jessica Lange and Sissy Spacek have also been involved in local polo, but no one ever, to my knowledge, got into the petty-lacrosse-childish-superiority-complex. We were/are just people having fun and the petty 'attitude' was never even an issue on the radar scope.
I am not sure I can agree that Lacrosse Players and Polo players are the same based on my experience. We even had a member of the Gillette family play polo in Charlottesville and, basically, no one even knew he was here.
This is a harsh statement for me to make, but basically, white trash makes headlines, like George in this case, and those with money fly under the wire. Will anyone argue with me that George is nothing less than poor-white-trash? He killed his girl friend, so a counter argument should only come from someone who is as crazy as George!
Basically, Mike hasn't been exposed to wealth and privilege in the Northeast, so he's astounded by its effects elsewhere.
@Mike re:"We don’t have fortunes acquired through the abuse of slavery, unlike many families residing in the Maryland/DC area."
Mike you seem to be hung up on the legacy of slavery, and also seem to be under the mistaken belief that it was an exclusively Southern institution that has tainted the South while having no effect on the North. There are many non-internet sources of facts regarding the fortunes made by Northern families from the slave trade, but since you're sitting at a computer, perhaps a quick look at http://www.slavenorth.com/profits.htm is in order
"The effects of the New England slave trade were momentous. It was one of the foundations of New England's economic structure; it created a wealthy class of slave-trading merchants, while the profits derived from this commerce stimulated cultural development and philanthropy. --Lorenzo Johnston Greene, ââ?¬Å?The Negro in Colonial New England, 1620-1776,” p.319."
"A list of the leading slave merchants is almost identical with a list of the region's prominent families: the Fanueils, Royalls, and Cabots of Massachusetts; the Wantons, Browns, and Champlins of Rhode Island; the Whipples of New Hampshire; the Eastons of Connecticut; Willing & Morris of Philadelphia. To this day, it's difficult to find an old North institution of any antiquity that isn't tainted by slavery. Ezra Stiles imported slaves while president of Yale. Six slave merchants served as mayor of Philadelphia. Even a liberal bastion like Brown University has the shameful blot on its escutcheon. It is named for the Brown brothers, Nicholas, John, Joseph, and Moses, manufacturers and traders who shipped salt, lumber, meat -- and slaves."
FrankHardy May 11th, 2010 | 1:13 pm
(California was created by rich elite slaveholders trying to escape during the Civil war by the ââ?¬Å?better” people who had to put an end to their nonsense)
***
That’s right - the Spanish colonization, Mexican rule, a little thing called ââ?¬Å?the 1849 Gold Rush” - these things had little effect on the development of California.
You are referring to the CALIFORNIA TERRITORY, not the STATE OF CALIFORNIA WHICH IS PART OF OUR UNITED STATES. Read a book titled, "The California Gold Rush and the Coming of the Civil War."
This article has best described how I have perceived this situation from the start. I grew up in the Landon area and am now a teacher who has written several letters of recommendation for students applying to Landon. Nobody would deny that it is a place of wealth but the attitude a child carries comes from their family. I lost my best friend in a car accident a few years ago. That situation and the emotional roller coaster that followed have taught me to forgive in impossible situations and that life will, eventually, go on. I agree with Mr. Sharp that somewhere along the way someone dropped the ball on Mr. Huguely and that it exacerbated problems deep inside of him. Was it when his parents divorced? Did they have him counseled? Did they tell him to keep quiet and not "air the dirty laundry"? Did he have ODD - occupational defiancy disorder - and not receive treatment for it? As a teacher I see it all and having grown up in the area, I understand it all. There are ways to prevent people from exploding, and the first step is for parents to put their pride aside and take on the truth. It's not about hiding our truths from the world or ignoring what's there. Secrets and denials make us weak and eventually we lose control. Confronting the truth and seeking help where needed makes you stronger. That is what we need to teach our children.
the best thing I have read so far is from the Washington Examiner. Students face expulsion for a variety of issues such as cheating, stealing etc..what about beatings, violence. Change that darn honor code on all the college campuses I am sure none of the colleges include beatings, violence etc. with their code of conduct, just the usual stuff..cheating, stealing etc. It is so easy to point fingers at the family..friends and coaches even though we don't know the entire stories of what really went on among family friends or coaches..let's look directly at changing what needs changing at colleges and universities and add beating and violence as violations of the honor code=immediate expulsion from a college.
U.Va. has a judiciary committee to handle other offenses. The Washington Examiner is a joke.
Sounds good Shannon....keep it up
Citizen you are going nowhere with your points. How many times do I have to reference Maryland's Head Coach who said, "the lacrosse culture isn't just white preppy private school students, that is the DC/BALT area, because in NY the best players are from public schools."
ââ?¬Å?Cottle noted that in some of the big hotbeds of the game, like Washington DC and Baltimore, the top teams are private schools but in areas like Long Island and upstate New York, the public school teams dominate...Gone are the days when every roster was loaded with prep school players from Baltimore and New England"
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/lacrosse-sport-bullies/story?id=10577297&...
So if you don't understand the difference in lacrosse culture in the North and South, then don't try to make a point about it. I should clarify it's obviously more private vs public debate because prep school kids from DC and Boston are grouped together. but Cottle laid the difference out for you VERBATIM to what I said, and I therefore, I need to make amends for making it more of a North/South issue when it's more of a public/private school issue. I've sat next to Mike Pressler at a bar in the Bay Area when he was telling me area codes 516 and 631 are the kids I want on my team. I've never respected kids like George Hugeley, and I would have never said how "sick" he is we don't really use that terminology! I would have broke his wrist off a faceoff in practice if he didn't tighten his gloves enough. How about this, FEWER perpetuate the exclusive elitism found in private schools in public schools
It's understood lacrosse is a means for higher education because the talent pool is less as you say. But don't try to argue it's exclusive to student athlete's who cannot "cut it" in other sports. i know so many who turned down division 1 football scholarships and accepted lacrosse ones instead. One was setup with a $30,000 full scholarship and a $5k spending account to play football at Northwestern but chose to play lacrosse at Ohio State instead. Another chose Hofstra lacrosse over Fordham football, another chose Rutgers lacrosse instead of UCLA football, another chose Stony Brook lacrosse instead of Syracuse football, etc etc. I'm speaking of dozens of players i've met throughout the last 10-15 years who have done this. even if its more uncommon.Im also willing to admit that Long Island and Southern Long Island, more specifically, is an anomaly of the perceptions you and everyone else has about lacrosse culture in the rest of the country because in many ways you are absolutely right.
Instead of posing the question of if "laxers" grew up in the MidWest, Texas, California they couldn't cut it in other sports, if lacrosse didn't exist and all lacrosse athletes assimilated into other sports, the Northeast would be one of the best hotbeds for football and baseball in the country too. Even without this happening, 7 of the 2009 NFL first round draft picks played HS football in New Jersey. Even if it's a function of having a greater population than the other parts of the country, it's the truth.
Likewise, another factor is we are not so DIE HARD about football in the Northeast as the rest of the country. There are no programs that you grow up idolizing (they all kind of suck) and dream about playing for...if that was the case many more athletes would play football, and it has little to do with "cutting it" in other sports when most of the best football players quit their HS teams in 11th grade to concentrate on their lacrosse careers and scholarships. I couldn't make it any clearer. Even UVA's Bratton twins were offered FULL FOOTBALL SCHOLARSHIPS FROM BOTH THE DUKE AND UVA FOOTBALL TEAMS and turned them down. OK? But like you say they probably would have played football but luckily they have an older brother that I competed against that taught them lacrosse when they were 6 years old. Now you know why they are so good.
@Liz: In my opinion, UVA’s decision to play has very little to do with honoring Yeardley Love, it’s merely propaganda for the game to go on and further elevates the importance of Lacrosse. If UVA truly wanted to honor her they wouldn’t play at all, that action alone would have much greater impact in expressing how horrible and tragic the loss of her life is than in ââ?¬Å?continuing the season to honor her”.
I heartily disagree. If the heinous crime committed by ONE member of the men’s lax team against a team member of the women’s lax team could halt both teams from going after a championship, how much power would we be giving that ONE criminal. How important he would think he is! Halting the rest of the season because one member is a psychopath gives the psycho too much power. Let both teams play on in memory of Yeardly Love, the fallen player. Treat the psycho as though he never existed and that the world does not revolve around him or his actions. GH V is just not that important to the men’s team. I hope they have the biggest victory of all timeââ?¬â?without GH V.
DM, If you don't think private school entitlement exists anywhere you are sorely mistaken. You have the option to attend public school, in which everyone has equal opportunity. Isn't that what America should be about? As you have sifted through some of my generalizations, you certainly notice a specific theme: having little respect for those who attended private HS. I have several college buddies that also attended private HS and I never let them live it down; they understood they were privileged or whatever you would like to call it. If you were on scholarship, perhaps it is much different, but please don't try disparage me or my comments and act like I have no idea what I am talking about. When I suited on the lacrosse field, as you did, It was all too common to hear rallying cries (when my HS team faced St Anthony's private school, or even when Ward Melville would scrimmage a respective school in your DC/Maryland region) along the lines of, "lets go beat the crap out of these *** kids who think they are better than us." Maybe it was the direction of a biased coach. The sad part is, educationally, you were better than us in so many ways. The valedictorian of my HS couldn't even get accepted to Northwestern; the subsequent year, the valedictorian went to Long Island University. If either could afford private HS they would have undoubtedly been going to Ivy League schools.
Im sure your a good dude and Im not going to criticize you as you so politely reciprocated, but there is a huge difference in the character/mentality of someone attending private and public HS. It might be the biggest difference of them all honestly, and in many ways as significant as ethnicity, class and bodily size. To be able to extract your child from your community as a whole and place him into an institution that reflects your high social status, as opposed to the demographic of your locality is not something I agree with. I understand in certain metro areas public schools are terrible, but It's simply not fair to be able to utilize your parents wealth to gain an educational advantage. I attended private college, so perhaps I'm one living hypocrite, but I was able to gain admission through hard work administered in public school that offered the same opportunity to everyone else in my town. Not until i attended this private college did I truly understand how "entitled" these private HS students I was now competing with and the extreme educational advantage they received before.
If you truly think there is no surrounding culture at your alma mater that aided in George becoming the person he was, and he was just a mentally ill individual (since he showed traits of sanity by removing evidence - her laptop - from the scene) the only explanation is he was bred this way. Blaming him as a person is convenient, especially if you fail to assign blame to his upbringing, parenting, schooling, etc
Obviously, lacrosse has many different dimensions. Here's a documentary about a group of inner city kids in Denver who took up the sport:
http://citylaxthemovie.com/
It's coming to the AFI Silver Theatre in Silver Spring, Maryland on June 3.
Name one good honest to god invention that was ever concieved by a preppie”Š
***
Well, Bill Gates attended the exclusive Lakeside Schoool.
Oh, you said a "good" invention. I guess that Windows does not apply then.
You don't seem to know this lax culture as much as you claim...just many small mistakes you made in stereotyping it. If you really knew it as well as you pretend you would know that lacrosse had nothing to do with it. Lacrosse does not foster this attitude. The socioeconomics of the situation are far more to blame than the sport. Football equipment is expensive as well and teams are bigger costing more to suit up all the players. These areas (I am from baltimore and an MIAA school) foster the attitude of lack of responsibility and reckless living. People who come from these areas who don't play lacrosse have the very same attitude. You made a nice try to deduct a reason for this senseless tragedy. But its just that, a senseless tragedy there is no real reasoning. He ws emotionally detached? He was anything but emotionally detached. His emotions took total control of him. Don't you see that?
Opps sorry Mike I was wrong about the Mason-Dixon Line, deep apologies. Guess I can stop mumbling under my breath at the Maryland drivers now when they cut me off referring to them as D@mn Yankees....Now what was this article about? Oh yeah, something about lax being the reason...That I cannot agree with..the lax culture in a private school setting, might have something to do with his "entitlment" attitude. This case is a hard hit to any sport where the perp was player though. I think the author was trying to shed some light on his experience as a lax player and what he saw in others. However, I have to agree that lax is not the cause of this incident, just GH played that sport. Food for thought here, would all you football lovers feel the same way if GH were a superstar in that sport??? Would you want to shut down the Cavalier Football team and bounce the coach? Just again beinobjective.
"Pretty much anyone that wasn’t one of them either didn’t exist, or existed solely as an object of ridicule."
Here is how a job interview might go for someone that lives in such a little petty bubble of smug arrogance.
Interviewer: So you went to UVA I see.
Interviewee: Yes!
Interviewer: Played lacrosse I see.
Interviewee: Oh, yes, we were ranked very high.
Interviewer: So basically you spent four years running with a stick while chasing a little ball.
Interviewee: On no! Lacrosse is so much more than that! (Long winded BS about sport inserted here.) And it teaches respect for others through teamwork.
Interviewer: Respect for others?
Interviewee: Um, yeah!
Interviewer: I graduated from UVA twenty years ago and dined at the same dining hall you dined at frequently.
Interviewee: How do you know where I dined?
Interviewer: Because I test all the people I interview.
Interviewee: Test, what test?
Interviewer: Tell me the name of the cashier who has not missed a day of work in more than twenty years and has worked at UVA for almost twenty five years?
Interviewee: The name of the cashier! What cashier?
Interviewer: The one who you must have paid for food more than one thousand times while attending UVA.
Interviewee: Cashier! Cashier? How would I know that, I don't speak to people like that!
Interviewer: Her name is Linda.
Interviewee: Linda?
Interviewer: Yes, Linda. You had more than one thousand opportunities to know her name and failed. You see in this company we treat those that earn the least the same as those that earn the most. Now, here is a dollar, take this and you are free to go.
Interviewee: Go! What's the dollar for?
Interviewer: The dollar is to cover the postage if you want another job interview once you grow up.
Interviewee: But why a dollar?
Interviewer: Because postage will be at least a dollar by the time you do grow up. Good day!
RIF--I have read the arguments carefully and I still take issue with your assertion that LAX has something to do with this tragedy. You, RIF, are asserting faulty correlation. When two things occur at the same time, it DOES NOT MEAN that they caused each other. (i.e., watching violence on TV thus causes violence). This is a fallacy because: 1. violent person could already be violent and then chooses to watch or is drawn to violence on TV, but would have acted violently with or without that action and 2. there are far too many examples of people who play lacrosse and do not kill to argue any kind of significant relationship between lacrosse and murder. If that were the case, then people who wear red hats or drive cars or eat shrimp would then be murder suspects as well. It doesn't make sense.
The point is, this is one individual who happens to play lacrosse with other specific attributes that committed murder. He could have just as easily been middle-class and played football at Penn State.
The only reason these attributions are being made is because it is the EASY thing to do; blame lacrosse, blame being rich, blame being privileged.
And no, Lacrosse doesn't matter. You go ahead and spend your time studying "lacrosse culture" (i.e., drinking beer, smoking pot, hooking up with chicks, thinking you are great) and see how far that takes you into figuring this out. I assure you, you will be no further in understanding this tragedy then when you started because it has nothing to do with it. Many of the guys on the team were part of this same culture and AGAIN, they did NOT murder because they are not George Huguely and the reasons he murdered have only to do with him and his own psychological impairments.
In fact, the author even comments on this issue:
"George Huguely was clearly a young man with problems. To what extent they were manifested, and how, remains to be seen. Given my relationship to some of his friends, I’ve heard things, but all that’ll trickle out in due time. For now, let’s say this: To leave any human being the way he allegedly left Yeardley that night requires both deep-seated psychological problems and a severe emotional detachment."
This is his best statement. The problem is, we all want to be arm-chair theorists and know-it all's, so we sit around guessing about why this happened and since we know he was a lacrosse player, we attribute it to that. It's like saying someone murdered because they are black (but you wouldn't be accused of that would you?). Hmmmm, then why don't all black people murder?
These are childish, meaningless, empty arguments with no merit or substance. The truth is, we don't know and probably won't ever know what led to this tragedy unless there is a full-scale psychological analysis of George Huguely, his family, and his early childhood years. This is where the time should be spent. I know it's hard and not as much fun because your level of education does not allow you to comment on these more complex issues, but don't criticize my reading comprehension because of your own inadequacies and criticizing after the fact, does not do anything in the way of prevention. Isn't that what is important here--preventing this from ever happening again. Oh, or is it having a conversation about lacrosse that's important?
FYI - UVA is part of Albemarle County, not the City of Charlottesville, despite it's location.
Mike Sullivan, perhaps the greatest point made here was by you:
he was a mean drunk and he killed this beautiful woman”Š.who was trying to break away”Š.and society failed to protect her.
Now dig deeper. What society? The judge that failed to give the monster jail time for assaulting a police officer? His teammates for not reporting behavior that was clearly out of control? Teachers, Coaches, Administrators, or any adult that was aware of the entire situation?
Imagine this girl after her first date with this monster. She might have gotten butterflies, called her friends and was just happy about meeting a guy she liked. 2 years later look what happens! This story is so sad in several ways. Now you have teammates of the killer carrying her casket during the funeral. This story is so twisted it's hard to reconcile it on any level.
Restore the Republic,
Your post is very well stated.
Perhaps the resentment is not toward those with money who have worked for it and arrived through the sweat on their brow, but for those who feign superiority simply because they were born to those people. The game simply may seem to have evolved to a glamorous activity of that set, the way my generation often sees polo.
Dear S. Jones,
I am a female citizen of Virginia and have lived here, and raised a large family, including young women, through universities. I do not control, nor do I speak for or support all that the Governor of Virginia might choose to do, although you should realize, he has been in for just a few months, and therefore cannot be blamed for everything which has occured here. Therefore, indicting the entire state is counterproductive and bizarre.
Please read the posts more carefully. I am not JFK. I am not a man. I did not mention a republic of any kind at any time.
You wish to cast aspersions and fight, yet you have chosen to fight with a woman who has worked hard against all the things you despise, for many years. You wish to fight, but you need to read more carefully, consider a rational argument more carefully and hone it, select a forum more appropriate to a generalized attack of Virginia. Your argument remains unarmed.
How could I possibly be disgusting ? A womans, and for that matter, a man's life are two things I hold dear.
Best wishes to you. Seeing the world with venom and rage must be a difficult way to live.
Duh, thanks for the link to an insightful ariticle. In all the negative turmoil that is surrounding this case it's very uplifting to see that there were students who gained a positive experience from the sport at UVa. The number that have responded and the number of years back since graduation was surprising for me but it still reasserted my position that the sport is not to blame, just the individual.
I didn't read all the comments so excuse if this duplicates but I don't think lacrosse is the problem. I went to college in the midwest & hung out with lacrosse players and they were not worse than the hockey, baseball or basketball players (mostly Canadian btw). I think its the male elite attitude which leads someone like Huguely to think that he is entitled b/c he can play a sport & has money. Add in anger issues & a drinking problem that everyone ignored and there you have it. Lacrosse was just the sport he played well. Women play lacrosse too and come from elite upbringings as well. As far as I know, none of them have killed anyone.
...............so, where do you think LeBron will be playing next year?....................................
Let's get some protection. www.highteksecurity.com Pepper sprays, mace, stun guns, tasers. All non lethal and perfectly legal ways of protecting ourselves from these types of heinous crimes.
So the big question is how does someone like me, that cares about my child and teaches them to be the best person possible, to be kind, study hard, take care of mind, body and spirit, respect elders and others, to be a responsible citizen, how do I protect my child from a child that is brought up to be a sociopath? My son goes to private school. The motto is scholarship, citizenship and leadership.
Restore the Republic,
I mean only to say that some non-Lacrosse playing individuals may look at those who play as those with broader reaching opportunities than they enjoyed, and that Non-polo playing individuals probably also view polo players in the same way.
People create divisions between themselves even where they should not exist.
I don't know enough about George to comment, and I don't use the phrase "white trash" very often. I do know that he had a profound mental health issue which manifest in several cities over time. It seemed to manifest in physical abuse, rebellion against authority and was worsened by alcohol. Sadly, it's also true that if he had been a foster child, he would be seeing a psychiatrist twice a week, and be on three psychotropic medications following an anger management and then an alcohol treatment plan. His being a member of an elitist family appears to have shielded him from receiving the necessary help. His issues not only will not play well in prison, but he is presently ill equipped to survive there.
Northern Virginian wrote:
Did he have ODD - occupational defiancy disorder - and not receive treatment for it? As a teacher I see it all and having grown up in the area, I understand it all.
_____________
As a teacher, I would imagine that you know that ODD is not occupational, but in fact "Oppositional Defiant Disorder", and that this was simply a typographical error.
Your point in well taken, in that those of us who do remain here need to focus on solutions for the future for those who remain. I am sorry for the loss of your friend.
Unfortunately, most of us know someone who is a ticking timebomb. Either a child with an undiagnosed disorder as yet, or an adult who may have intermittent explosive disorder, alcohol or drug induced aggression, or a clear psychosis. Many times, as their friend or relative, we are quick, as a collective, to attribute these behaviors to stress and we don't take action. Sometimes when we do, we find that in our state especially, mandatorily having them treated can be quite impossible. I think that an important question to ask is what can we do to try to ensure that this does not happen to another young woman and another young man, because the families of both, and the lives of both are forever changed.
hey yeah, for my brief time in the Bay Area trying out with the SF Dragons I did a session with underprivileged youth at one of Matt Ogelsby's All West camps. It was very similar to the Denver clip. Thanks for that.
The most ironic thing about UVA lax besides them supposedly being "Cavaliers," or gentlemen, is well, after this incident, two of its star players, the Bratton brothers, who are both African American, were supposed to bridge the sport into different ethnic cultures, primarily AFrican Americans. Instead of glorifying NBA players, Hip Hop stars, etc, young Black athletes could recognize their own as stars on a lacrosse field, and utilize the sport as a means to higher education. They could have shed such a positive light on the sport. It would have been a huge deal. The Brattons played at Huntington HS and parts of Huntington are pretty ghetto. Those kids were incredible and I think, as juniors, they are still two of the stars on the team. After this whole incident, UVA will forever be tainted by this tragedy. So much potential....such a sad result.
@ a mom-Isn't it possible that GH is a spoilt kid with a drinking problem and anger issues and could be from any generation? From what we know so far he didn't "fend for himself" in daycare or aftercare which BTW, a lot of parents use not because they WANT to work but because they HAVE to do so. Given that the only mention of GH's mother's employment is that she worked as a model, it is very likely she was a SAHM.
Really, there are bad eggs in every bunch. I don't believe GH in any way is a fair representation of the majority of today's youth.
Kiki good point, I don't want to hear from the Baby Boomer generation about how the Under 30 culture is full of bad apples.
Sorry, but is our age group the reason for dissolving Social Security? Were we the ones who greedily increased corporate profits, eradicated "pensions" and spearheaded a society in which the gap between the rich and poor is forever growing? Do we have the luxury of a standardized 9-5 workday, including an hour lunch and the all but guaranteed retirement age of 55?
No we won't get SS, we will not retire @ 55, we now have to work 8-5, sometimes even 10-11 hour days with increasingly lower starting salaries. The Baby Boomers have done tons of damage
I don't typically respond to articles like this. You made an overly intellectual inquiry into a situation where not nearly so much analysis is required. Right now there is a family grieving the needless death of their daughter. It happened because a young man couldn't control himself and follow the most basic rules of society. While I am not a huge advocate of the death penalty, as a father I think it would be an appropriate punishment for this crime. Whatever nuances of East Coast elitism may have contributed to this young mans behaviour are irrelevent. He killed another human being, let him atone for that.
Before I break my computer because my eloquent response to your misinformed article was erased I would like to explain to you how skewed your perspective on "lacrosse" players truly is. Please keep in mind I had a 3 page response to your article that would have destroyed your entire premise. Let me just hit on a few of these points:
You are specifically talking about privileged/elite/Southerners. Please understand that in NY, we all grow up surrounded by the sport. It's no coincidence the non religious affiliated NEW YORK HS in your top 10 list are PUBLIC. If you expanded that said list to 150 you would notice that ALL NY HS are public ones. We do not discriminate; lacrosse isn't for affluent populations only. It's sad you don't understand this and make no mention of it.
We are just better human beings up North - we have respect for others/diversity, we hail from immigrant families and are just more grounded in general. We don't have fortunes acquired through the abuse of slavery, unlike many families residing in the Maryland/DC area. Everyone has the opportunity to play lacrosse where I come from. I grew up on Long Island, played collegiately and briefly professionally and not once met any lacrosse player who would have ever hit a woman, let alone murder her. There are also public HS that are comprised 100% African American HS students. Have you ever stopped to think WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO WITH RESPECT TO THIS PIECE CRAP GEORGE HUGELY AND THIS RESULTING SOCIETAL ABUSE OF ALCOHOL DRUGS AND DOMESTIC ABUSE THAT GOES UNCHECKED AND UNPUNISHED CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO SOUTHERN VALUES AND NOT LACROSSE IN GENERAL. Do you realize what happened when the South tried to challenge 3 Northern lacrosse players and their families at Duke, resulting in disbarred lawyer, public shame for both Duke and Durham, and over $25,000,000 in restitution payments paid out of Dukes endowment to those 3 players and coach Mike Pressler? Trust me, I've had drinks with Mike Pressler discussing this.
I've talked about this at length with dozens of players in NYNortheast and we are sick and tired of a select few of these "prep" kids from the DC/Maryland area destroying the reputation of the game we love. Of course most players from the DC/Northern Virginia area are great individuals, but there is a difference here that is taboo to talk about. PREP SCHOOL KIDS FROM NY DO NOT BEHAVE IN THE SAME MANNER AS THEIR COUNTERPARTS IN THE SOUTH. I can't even fathom this situation occurring in NY. It's basically impossible for it to happen here. It doesn't matter how wealthy an individual is if he ASSAULTED a NY police officer, as George Hugely THE FOURTH, he would be serving time and at the least been kicked off his lacrosse team. These events ARE PUBLIC RECORDS IN NY AND INCLUDED IN DAILY PRESS. No way this would have gone unnoticed. Heck anyone with the name ending in "the 4th" would have gotten beat up throughout public school! I dont' even know anyone where I come from that goes to private school you get beat up for being privileged in the first place!
Disclosure - I've spent plenty of time in NVA and the DC area around regular public school people such as poster ED B and although my opinion is pretty harsh I mean no disrespect
This essay makes me want to vomit.This sounds like an excuse for animalisitic behavior. The problem is NOT lacrosse. The problem is people with means think that they are somehow absolved of responsibility to be good parents, and children of means think that wealth allows them to be irresponsible and unaccountable. Society adds to this by allowing it. This guy is a cold blooded murderer who murdered a girl because he could not have things his way. His motives were entirely selfish and his methods were entirely violent.The fact that he knew her and knew her character makes the act more heinous not less. He deserves a swift and fair trial and once convicted a short stay on death row.
The reason for capital punishment is to rid the world of people like this who kill for no reason and without regard for others. He cannot claim poverty, lack of alternatives or stress. He can only claim that he was upset because he didn't get his way.
Maybe if society looked down on these people instead of the other way we wouldn't have to deal with tragedies like this.
@ Mike:
Apparently being a "better person" entails "beating up" kids with names you dislike or having the unfortunate luck of being born into an affluent family. I'm convinced, New York simply produces "better" individuals. Individuals who insinuate being from the South (Northern Virginia? South?) makes you predisposed to domestic violence. "Better" people must be synonymous with close-minded dolts.
There are also public HS that are comprised 100% African American HS students.
***
I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make here, but you end up being proud of having de facto segregation.
Male lacrosse players, for the most part, are guys who really couldn't make it in other sports. GWH was the quarterback of his relatively small high school team. You think he wouldn't have taken a scholarship to play football at Virginia or UCLA or OSU or even Towson State? Sure there are a handful of exceptions, but most of these guys are dudes that couldn't make it in football or basketball. So now they have an obscure, little understood sport that makes them feel like BMOC. BIG FISH, small pond.
This crime and pending trial is not really about lacrosse or college...it's really more about people of privilege and power and their access to protection that most of us don't or ever will have. Sadly, it doesn't end with college. This protected class goes on to become the heads of AIG and Enron; the Dubyas and Cheneys. For every Bernie Madoff or Ken Skilling who got busted and is doing hard time, there are hundreds and hundreds of the elite class who rob society blind, take us into phony wars for corporate profits, ignore safety requirements in coal mines or off-shore oil rigs. And those of us down at the bottom pay, while we wait for our supposed "trickle-down."
The system is rigged folks. And we're the suckers. GWHv made the mistake of taking it one horrifying step too far. He'll have to pay, as a sacrifice, so the remaining elite class can continue to skate.
Thanks for publishing this article! Yes we have to blame lacrosse to a certain degree. It is a rich kid's sport. The player's drink, do drugs, have girls at their disposal - when do they even have time to practice?
UVA wants us to believe that this all came as a total shock to them. PLEASE! Don't insult our intelligience. There is no way a coaching staff/athletic director would not have at least heard rumors that a player had been arrested or gotten into a fight with another player or with his girlfriend. Of course they knew this information - they just chose to ignore it. Much the same way his parents ignored it, his friends ignored it and so on throughout his life.
What makes me really sick about the behaviour of these atheletes is that they are being PAID to go to college. There are so many kids out there that really need the money to attend college and would so appreciate and treat a full scholarship like it actually was worth something.
Playing a college sport at a D1 school is a job - they get paid to play that sport. Bosses tell their employees what they can and cannot do in the workplace. Coaches need to have the guts to do the same with these young kids who are at a very impressionable time of their lives. The college should not be paying these kids to drink and do drugs. Instead they should be paying them to play their sport and be a role model for the young kids in their town who look up to them.
Are there no rules regarding alcohol and drug abuse during an athletic season at UVA? Obviously not. I could not beleive that Starsa actually bragged about the fact that when he came to UVA he put a no alcohol policy into effect for every day except Saturday. I just don't understand how a college that supposedly takes such pride in itself can condone behaviour like this.
My son played college athletics too. I felt a certain amount of peace when he went away knowing that he would be cared for by his coaching staff - that he would not just be a little fish in a big pond. He would immediately have a "family" to take over when his real parents were no longer there. ISN'T THAT WHAT THE COACHES TELL YOU WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO RECRUIT YOUR CHILD? Yes it is and they should be held accountable for that promise. Luckily my son did not go to a college like UVA. His coaching staff actually did have his best interests and safety at heart.
The same thing is happening at high schools right here in our own town. Coaches know that the players are drinking and doing drugs- breaking the so-called athletic rule of conduct - but they just ignore them. Let's face it, Bad things happen when young people abuse alcohol and drugs. Car accidents, fights, rape. And now murder...
We have got to stop turning the other way and ignoring disgusting behaviour. If someone - anyone - had stepped forward, maybe this would not have happened. Yes his lax career may have ended, he may have been really mad - but so what? Now his life and the life of a young girl have both ended.
I would really hate to be one of the people who was in his close circle - parents, siblings, coaches, friends. I don't think I could live with myself.
Finally how in the world can either UVA team finish their Lax season? It makes me sick at my stomach to even think of it. There has to come a time when these kids are made to grow up and realize there is actually a world out there that is larger and more important than they are. So they are a bit unhappy that their season has ended early. They'll live - Yeardley will not.
Oh yes Franklin, American nepotism at its finest! Well said, lets spend trillions on two Middle-Eastern wars, tax cuts for the rich, and bailing out major banks. Then we can watch Republicans get all righteous about a deficit they created and balk at spending 10 billion so millions of Americans can feed their families.
I liked your post, but you should give lacrosse players a little more credit. There are dozens of that turn down division 1 football scholarships and accept lacrosse ones instead. Overall you are mostly right, but there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of a system that allows you to gain a scholarship to a prestigious university/college through playing the sport.
ok Manie, I'm sure the behaviour you describe occurs @ Cornell, West Point, Middlebury, Darthmouth, St Lawrence, NYIT, Princeton, Skidmore, Wesleyan. Even the notorious Syracuse lacrosse team with their gazillion championships never featured a story like this.
The two major schools where a huge issue propped up were Virginia and Duke, One was a complete fallacy and an extreme overreaction to an event that had the Duke team fearing for their lives. The other was a piece of crap who thought he was so above everything and killed his ex girlfriend because she apparently wanted nothing to do with him. Are there parallels here? Who knows, male-female relationships were the catalyst for both events actually.
Mike, how does your statement "(California was created by rich elite slaveholders trying to escape during the Civil war by the ââ?¬Å?better” people who had to put an end to their nonsense)"
make sense and have anything to do with the reasonable book description that you quoted?
SBEEE
1) what would you call a bar in Northern Virginia (Arlington perhaps) in which it reeks like Virginia tobacco smoked cigars, with cowboy hat and cowboy boot wearing individuals making fun of "Those Dam Yanks" in a Southern drawl? Not Southern? Then you tell me...
2) Yes, but public schools are funded by local taxes, matched by state taxes and there isn't any element of prestige, associated with private counterparts that are privately funded.
3) Completely agree - not sure what your point is. People are as racist in NY as anywhere, trust me, but there isn't a cultural system in place (you can't just nevermind institutional discrimination/racism or deny the impact of Jim Crow laws still present)
for all arguing with "Mike"....don't rise to the bait anymore, maybe he'll go fish somewhere else....
David K - you're probably right, it looks really bad and it sends a terrible message. My thought when I initially heard was, will there be any celebration or even a sense of celebration if the men win? Hopefully the incoming president will see this as an opportunity to do a thorough review of why there seems to be such poor institutional responses to violence within the student population, and what could be changed. It shouldn't be easier to get someone kicked out for cheating than for beating up their girlfriend, though given some of the comments I've read here, abolishing the UVa police entirely and letting all crimes be treated as normal crimes, not private school matters, might be the best idea yet.
Andrew
Prep school Lax culture may have been a contributor, but at his core George Huguely is a sociopath.......a monster who was going to eventually kill somebody, most likely a woman. It was just a matter of time.
If you want an idea of what the Love family is going through, I recommend you watch the movie "In The Bedroom" (nominated for 5 Oscars).
To Mike from NY
It is clear to me that you are unfamiliar with many of the cultures you are commenting on. I have never responded to a post like this, but your language and ignorance is honestly offensive, and I am sure I speak for others on here when I say that.
This violent act had nothing to do with lacrosse, nothing to do with Landon and the 'preppy south', and nothing to do with UVA. If you cannot understand that, then as like you're tireless writing would imply, you are entirely self absorbed and are more concerned with expressing your bias publicly than addressing any of the issues at hand. This act had to do with ONE sick individual.
As someone who attended Landon, played lacrosse, and graduated just a few years ahead of George Huguely, I can say that the stereotypes being tossed around now are absoltuely unfounded and out of control. The vast majority of students at these schools do not play lacrosse and are not overly entitled. Almost half of Landon's student population, as I was, is on scholarship. That includes students that play lacrosse.
Entitlement exists everywhere. It is not exclusive to private schools or a specific geographies. DO NOT BE CONFUSED MIKE: This is a TRAGEDGY for everyone involved. That includes the schools that Huguely attended. To imply anything else is beyond ignorant.
just for the record..... Maryland was a slave state... in fact Maryland slaves were never emancipated their freedom was purchased by the US government after the war....
too bad the nimrods in the north didn't negotiate that deal with the south instead of giving up a half a million lives ....
and also for the record... prep school boys have brought us nothing but lawsuits, wars, politicians, and corporate executives who steal from the stockholders.
Name one good honest to god invention that was ever concieved by a preppie...
A Mom- AMEN!
UVA Mom- you are so right! Robert Chambers, 15 yrs (served every damn day of it), out and then right back in............
"Southern preppies rule, how dare anyone suggest we haven’t conceived of any good inventions. Our fashion sense alone should be commended. Our attitudes are even more endearing."
Indeed, the best idea conceived was the preppy invention of soap-on-a-rope, so when you really screw up and find yourself in the big house among the other inmates, at least you don't need to bend over in the shower.
And for fashion sense, I would agree, green pants and pink shirt are always in style. :)
Lacrosse is for hulking buffoons who aren't good at the other, more popular sports. It is the basis for the negativity.
I agree with Mike about frat-boy/jock culture. Forget Lax. There are plenty of star athletes or those who think they are stars playing a variety of sports. Some but not all are arrogant and full of themselves. They get away with things/incidents/police stuff etc. They do get breaks. This includes the haves and have-nots..the rich and the poor. Public school athletes and privates. Jocks have attitudes. Over the course of twenty years, I have met nice jocks and some who won't give you the time of day. some feel a sense of entitlement..college and pros. I have also coached..sometimes the parents are even worse than the kids and this is in grade school and high school.
It's interesting that there is some sentiment here that those who dislike the arrogance - 'Pretty much anyone that wasn’t one of them either didn’t exist, or existed solely as an object of ridicule.' - is somehow not rich and exists in a diminished economic state when compared to the lacrosse players. Actually, this attitude of superiority is what gives people who legitimately make lots of money a bad name. You see, anyone can spend money, and the lacrosse players have not been economically engaged long enough to have made the money they spend. So, obviously, they spend what their parents give them, or those that are lucky might have a trust fund. Either way it is money they have not sweated over, or earned! But to look down your nose upon people, and at the same time to have not proven any ability to make money yourself, is the pinnacle of hypocrisy and arrogance. And it is my learned observation in life that those who make the money don't spend anytime looking down their noses at people. The arrogance of a superior attitude can only come from those that have never rolled up their sleeves to do some work. The definition - arrogance - would include the word BRATS! Or, spoiled brats! Frankly, I'm just not impressed with an attitude that is drawn from their parent's station in life. The silly children - and from my perspective the lacrosse players are basically children - have zero basis to feel that those not in their little petty bubble social group should be a target for their petty ridicule. And, obviously, they didn't even have the gumption to keep one of their own away from killing one of their own. The words: wimps, cowards, and pretenders comes to mind.
Jk, I played college polo. If you are not conversant on local polo regarding polo grounds road, Farmingtion Hunt and Forest lodge, then I am not going to debate you on the subject.
Maybe you know something, so I am open to your next post. But if you are ignorant to the local activities, then we have little to discuss.
Restore the Republic,
I was less judging polo, and more making the observation that there were some who considered "The Polo Set" to be arrogant, superior, and elitest, just as some consider the Lacrosse set to be. Human beings are interesting in that they construct divisions between people when they barely exist, and sometimes, when they actually do.
You are correct that I am not familiar with local polo, although I have experience with polo in England, New York, New Jersey and most recently Goochland.
My comment was equally applicable to anything that Americans might consider elitist. For example, many people, particularly locally consider attendees of Princeton to be elitist and superior, where in actual fact, the attendees of Priceton, and of most every university comprise a really wide range of people with broad ideas and attitudes. I'll bet Lacrosse players and Polo players are the same.
I have been following these tragic events closely. Let me start by saying that I am the proud mother of a UVA graduate, class of 2009. I know how hard my son worked to get into UVA and prosper once there. It was one of the best experiences of his life to date. I found UVA to be a plce that allowed the students to grow, learn boundaries,to expand their circle and open their minds to more than just the world they were raised in. We are from a small town in upstate NY, our public schools continue to rate one of the highest in the country. The average income is quite high, the expectation levels for our children in everything they do is very high, almost too high at times. They know from early on the being "the best" is what is going to get you where you think you want to be. I have had mixed feelings about this place we chose to raise our families, felt it to be insulated from the "real" world at times. But, looking at the big picture, I would prefer my children to be given the best tools we can give them then to not have that advantage. I have heard many ramble on about "privledge" and "wealth", neither are the only makings of someone that could would behave the way George did in the early hours. There is something more important, deeper going on, and I feel as if ALL the bad planets collided that morning, the rage, the rejection, the dysfunction, the inability AT THAT MOMENT to handle it. He did this, fact. Laying blame does no good. It does not change one thing. We have the legal system to handle that. What we all need to do as parents, friends, teachers, coaches, humans, is to start teaching our children, peers, students, very early, on to respect everyone. They need to be taught to have compassion and empathy , to value others. They need to learn that not winning is NOT losing. They need to understand that it is far more attractive to be a decent person and that is most unattractive to seemingly have it all, but to be a poor excuse for a human being. And, they need to learn how to deal with rejection. As parents, we want nothing more than to shield our kids from pain and discomfort, but as we all know, life is not always comfortable. They need to understand what it feels like to lose, graciously, in school, social situations, sports, and in love. If they don't learn these lessons along the way, why are we so horrified when something like this happens? This was a momentarily desparate move that I am certain George wishes he could undo. I am certain his parents are mourning in their own way. I am certain they are asking themselves the same questions we are all asking. He is someone's child, he was someone's baby, full of promise. By no means am I making one excuse for his actions, I just think what we are all looking for is some sense of reason. Slinging blame, or lame explanations attributing this horrible event to his parents income level, his sport, whether he is from the North or South...it is all so very pointless. I wish many of you would just take half of the anger you are spewing out and do something positive. The negative posts are actually supporting some of the lame and ignorant theories that most of us know are wrong.
How did we get started discussing movie stars and poloponies?
#
S Jones May 16th, 2010 | 9:04 am said:
Worst Case Scenario:
Virginians isolating themselves from America.
Richmond, you have a problem. I f you do not take care of it, the United States of America will take charge!
What do you mean ? I am not aware of Virginians isolating themselves from the mainstream. In fact, Virginia, being the state from which the largest number of founding fathers/presidents were born, we tend to be in closer touch than many Americans, with our Constitution, the intent of our government, and our state and federal history. (Those presidents, if you are interested are: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, William Henry Harrison, John Tyler, Zachary Taylor, and Woodrow Wilson)
The death of Ms. Love occured in Charlottesville, not Richmond, so I am not sure how your comment relates.
How would the federal government take charge here, and for what reason ? Please explain.
If anyone in the Cville area wants to see an example of this culture firsthand it is right under your noses.
STAB is very similar to Landon, Gtown Prep, etc.
Attend a STAB lacrosse game. You can smell the entitlement.
Great article on the same topic:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/lacrosse-sport-bullies/story?id=10577297&...
Maybe you should add rock & roll and video games to your pointless arguments. In the meantime, be careful kids: lacrosse can kill.
I would hope the local lacrosse teams will disband and spare us a 2011 season. Honestly, the entire season will be focused on the question: will the men kill another female player this year? You folks are so arrogant it would be a credit to the community if you would just move on. We don't need another lacrosse player killing another player in 2011. Please stay home!
You've spent your lives looking down your noses at other people, and now society thinks you are nothing but scum. Truth wins in the end.
Citizen, just to clarify, you argue the Duke rape case was ridiculous but then go on to argue that Reade Sieligman and Dave Evans weren't choir boys, and also came from from Long Island and New Jersey.
Just so you understand the facts Reade wasn't even at the party during the stripper dance:
On January 12, 2007, Nifong sent a letter to North Carolina Attorney General Roy A. Cooper asking his office to assume responsibility of the case.[25] This came just days after the accuser changed her story yet again, now claiming that Reade Seligmann was not involved in the alleged attack.[26][27] Previously she had accused him and two others of the alleged rape.[26][27]
Also, " I read an account of Reade Seligmann’s testimony. He was the only white student in an ââ?¬Å?African American” studies course. After the accusations, his study partner gave him the cold shoulder and wrote an article about how the sexual assault of a black woman by white men signifies the return of the Jim Crow south, or some such BS. This kind of ignorance flourishes when admissions standards are lowered."
The Duke case is more of a North/South issue, because the main lesson learned from all the BS, hurting the perception of lacrosse in the process, is how contentious race relations between White's and Blacks are in North Carolina and the Greater South, resulting in a community that was hellbent on demanding justice for the "few" elite rich White Southerns who stepped out of line in a society that still suppresses minorities more so than anywhere else in the country.
Here you have an educated Duke African American student referencing JIM CROW LAWS and targeting a White individual who grew up in NY/NJ!!!!!!!! This is a human being who has at least one kin who put his life on the line to preserve the Union and free African Americans. ITS SICKENING
Mike, my point is that Long Island is a very segregated area. I'm not trying to make any comparisons to the South. My comment was in response to something you said way upthread, which gave an inaccurate impression of Long Island's racial demographics. You, yourself, are making my point by saying there are a dozen or so towns in which caucasians don't make up over 50% of the population. I will agree with that. You left out the fact that there are about 293 towns/hamlets/cities on Long Island.
South shore towns in Nassau like Baldwin and Freeport have large AA populations. But many more towns are like Bellmore, Seaford, Massapequa and Massapequa Park with caucasian populations of 96+%.
If anyone is remotely interested which towns on Long Island have concentrated AA populations click on this link:
http://www.newsdayinteractive.com/project/2007/mortgages/nassau.htm
It shows the communities with the top ten percentages of sub-prime loans in 2006 and the most foreclosure notices in 2007. They are the communities with well over 50% AA populations. AAs on LI are not dispersed across all towns. They are segregated in large numbers in a very few towns.
Lacrosse is not to blame or this. I know a bunch of the elite white preppy boys that have that attitude and they've never touched a lacrosse stick in their life. With community sports programs, like the one my son is in, now forming lacrosse teams, you will see this sport open up to more and more classes and ethnicities. Then hopefully people will stop bashing the sport. Sports do not do these things, people do them, people that had no moral core and were never held accountable, I ask again as I did up thread, where were the parents and the coaching staff, both at Landon and UVA? The other thing to look at is the society that welcomed the parents’ money and allowed them to sweep George’s past behaviors under the rug. All be it small incidents, but it shows a pattern of behavior and an increase to his aggression. Why was he allowed to be a repeat offender without any of the normal repercussions?
Sounds like some posters (esp Mike) are a little bit bitter about this. You can't write off this murder as a Northern vs Southern thing. I am sure if you had met George Hugely w/ your lax boys at a party you woulda been one of the ones "telling him how sick he is" and "reinforcing" the whole attitude that soo many of these lacrosee folks have. Lax is a bit cult-like and alot of people accept the stance of "we can do no wrong." It's a very insulated sport/culture. The Duke thing was ridiculous I agree- but it really opened the floodgates to the white/priveledged argument (unfortunatly). One of the Duke lax dudes "named" was from Long Island by the way-- the other from North NJ. while innocent of rape, I am sure they were no choir boys. I think the olden days of lax dudes getting good jobs after graduation (not based on merit) are over and done with. They will no longer be the B.M.O.C's. I am sure it is something the lax community wants to hold on to, but the lax community is not representative of the overall population. Days are #'ed. Big Fish- Small Pond. Kinda like wall street, the going was good, but when the going get's bad-- the instiution becomes more regulated and decentralized.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindbeaversbeat/2010/05/oregon_state_footba...
Way to go..former UVa QB who was kicked off our team for alcohol/drug test violations goes to Oregon State to redeem himself...only to get a DUI
How could anyone who has been around lax players not immediately agree what this guy is saying? It is an absolutely putrid subculture and UVa should be ashamed of itself for supporting it. Oh...and, yes, I can think of one reason.
@ lespedesia
I disagree, respectfully, with your assertion that lacrosse is a "putrid subculture" It is in fact a sport that encourages teamwork,friendship, & virtue,in a most positive manner. It propels the best players to a better future as do most sports. Please don't mistake the crimes of an individual as an indictment of the people who play, coach, and are fans of a game, as less than they are. If you are not a fan you don't have to watch. That's ok, but it's not a fault of a given sport if one of it's participants exhibits sociopathic behavior on a given day. Show me an occupation that doesn't.
Someone named "Lucky" posted on one of the lacrosse comment areas here. Obviously, "Lucky's" comment was not true. If the comment was true, "Lucky" would have been interviewed for a major story by one of the media outlets, instead of just posting one comment on here!
Just a Mom wrote: "This was a momentarily desparate move that I am certain George wishes he could undo."
That may be true of all men who murder their ex-wives, random women, or ex-girlfriends.
I don't think that judges should put part of the burden of deciding a punishment on the parents of the victim, however, because then it just makes the parents feel twice-as-bad if they have to choose something harsh!
You are making a situation with a simple solution into a difficult one. Yeah it has all the makings of a movie ie looks, sports, money, entitlement, but what is really about is LOVE.
Not everyone in this life experiences it, but when you do and it fails, reactions can run the gamut often fueled by our own insecurities of sense of entitlement. George played it out in the most extreme way but its only news because hes a UVA Lacrosse player. Money and ability does not overcome by emotion that is often made worse but the subtle actions of the one you love and who knows you love him/her.
Either way its a tragedy, but the lacrosse stuff is just background fodder to the human psyche.
One of the questions in the article was how could someone from such a privileged background, with everything going for him, do such a crime? The simple explanation is that a combination of deep-seated rage that he felt for being rejected combined with drugs/alcohol were the ingredients that led George to murder Yeardly. There are a lot of men that can't take being rejected once in their life by one woman because they have a lot of pride. But in addition to this, George was not a Christian man who had given his life to Christ, and letting the rage and the alcohol/drugs control him, he gave himself over to demonic activity. In other words because he didn't control his rage and he got himself involved with drugs/alcohol, he opened himself up to the demonic. Many people don't believe in demons, but it says that devil goes around seeking to devour and destroy. Well, he certainly did a good job in that, even though George has personal responsibility in this. If he genuinely repents at some point in his life, Christ will forgive him. Christ can forgive anyone if they genuinely ask for forgiveness. And He knows the heart. I pray that some good can come out of this tragedy.
I have been avoiding this headline for some time:
"...Lacrosse’s Worst Case Scenario"
I am not convinced that school sports are the most important thing in the universe and am not convinced that this one, single unfortunate death poses any threat to sport at all.Lastly I am not convinced that any school sport embodies the meaning of life for the human race.
This terrible death has enlightened me to the fact that LAX is apparently the ultra tubular (insert your prefered goofy slang term here)nickname for lacrosse amongst really lazy typists.
I have watched as the general population and the news industry has conducted an invisible trial of all parties involved and have arrived at giant-sized conclusions regarding everything that none of us knows yet with many "Guilties" and "Innocents" and proclamations of the vital need for college students to know their beloved sports teams are safe from vigilanties who do not even exist anyway.
I have also seen the astonishing overnight worshipping of one sport and a handful of athletes whom most never knew existed before. Vigils, fields of ribbons, support groups, conselling, symposiums, speeches, and top-level UVA administration personnel holding press conferences to deny knowledge (odd in itself), and to defend a sport which no one had accused of any wrong-doing in the first place.
It seems that the students might be as deprived of the education of right and wrong, as they are deprived of the knowledge of priorities.
We in here postin about lacrosse. Not basketball, not football... lacrosse. What are talkin bout? We talkin bout lacrosse. Lacrosse? We're talking about lacrosse man. We're talking about lacrosse. We're not talking about a sport that actually matters, we're talking about lacrosse. What are we talkin about? Lacrosse? Man, we in here talkin about lacrosse...
I have spent a LOT of time the last year taking on the UVA administration, as well as their tradition of coddling and covering up for both the greek system and the major athletes (there are largely one and the same).
But this article goes way too far to infer that it is a socio economic class - or a sport for that meter - that leads somebody to murder.
There are murders aplenty in the economic classes that can't afford $100,000 a year for high school. And there are murders aplenty among football, basketball, baseball, and any other ports players also. And guess what, non athletes commit murders too!
I know a few recently graduated UVA lacrosse players. They are some top notch people. Blanket blame or group guilt is always a bad idea. If this article was about the murder rate among inner city youth basketball players - it would have been cencored and never printed.
About all I can say about the lacrosse team is that they have a well earned reputation for being the most drug addict team at UVA. Not all of them, of course, but it's there. That is part of what needs to change here. But nothing needs to change more than Casteen resigning as soon as possible. The Creep of the Cover Ups should not be allowed to give the commencement speech. Not only has he earned it and then some, but that would give all students here (and that includes the athletes) that things are changing and the old ways of "we have your back" will no longer coddle and protect people like Mr. Huguely.
Frank, you think its just a stereotype that the South has better food than NY, is more laid back and women are more attractive? What!
and fine you got me, California was "created" by rich slave owners, but refer to the book I've mentioned. Southern slave owners attempted to flee to California before the Civil War, gain momentum Out West and admit it to the Union as a slave state. However they failed.
Boo and to those....even if Maryland is technically a Northern state, it is part of Southern lacrosse culture (DC/Maryland area vs NY/Syracuse) as I've outline before. Also listen to Jeff he's making good points
Angela and all these people suggesting that the author's argument is that LAX "caused" this tragedy, I think you're a little off base. In fact, the article says it's "not lacrosse’s fault. But if we’re looking to understand this tragedy in a way that teaches us anything, lacrosse matters. It’s part of the conversation."
Are you denying that LAX has nothing to do with this tragedy?
Angela, I don't think we need to take a stat class. I think you need to take a reading comprehension class!
Simona! abolishing the UVa police entirely and letting all crimes be treated as normal crimes, not private school matters, might be the best idea yet. - I can agree with that...allowing UVa to be an entity of their own has outlived the usefulness. However, then number of local officers would definitely have to increase to keep up with the "altercations", etc. Wonder how the City would handle such a challenge...any one up to give us their opinion!?
Mike O'brien,
So there is no diversification in NYC? Are you on drugs? Queens is the MOST DIVERSE COUNTY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA...I've actually left NY dozens, if not hundreds of times. I've traveled to every single Southern state as well as 4 continents. If you want to argue that the North is more segregated than the South, well I don't know what to tell you...I'm sure there are statistics to support both arguments. But I'll give it a shot:
"integration" you speak of falls, most likely, under an umbrella that can be construed as racist/discriminatory in the first place. You say you live in Alabama now. Did I just watch an HBO special about the schools first "integrated" prom a couple of years ago? I think this process is occurring throughout the South if I recall correctly. How can you possibly argue the North is more segregated than the South?
Once again, I'm tired of some of you coming on here trying to ridicule and criticize ME as opposed to refuting my points. I've showed respect...once again through this I'm proving my worth that lacrosse players up North such as me are pretty good people
tasers
justbeingwrong:
justbeinobjective May 11th, 2010 | 2:23 pm
For Boo Radley @Mike”ŠI think the Mason-Dixon line is the drawing point”Š.Maryland is NORTH of that”Š.
You lost your credibility along time ago. Keep up the personal shots they're cute.
@ Angela, it seems that you are the one who needs some writing classes: "Do you deny that LAX has nothing to do with this tragedy"
The idea that "lacrosse matters" if we are to learn anything from this tragedy is absolutely false. Lacrosse did not murder someone aand it did not cause the murder. Depending on how you look at it, this tragedy is either way bigger or way smaller than lacrosse. It is not about lacrosse.
yeah what, it's about a privileged kid who received too many free passes and murdered his ex girlfriend. They both just happen to play lacrosse. It's more about alcohol abuse than lacrosse. It's just a shame it shines even more negative light on the sport.
interesting article... but what still bothers me is why the coach has not been asked to step aside as the investigation moves forward. Having played a sport in college I would bet good money the coach knew about this boys off fieled problems and turned a blind eye. If found out that he knew about any of this behavior he shoudl be fired immediately!!
To bad all murders do not get the attention that this one and the Harrington girl received. If these 2 young ladies had been prostitutes, poor, runaways or anything not related to money they would have been on page 3 for one maybe 2 days. Sad but true.
@Mike:
Apparently you are the only one allowed to mis-speak I referred to you private school buddies - a mistake.
While we are fact-checking each other, you said, "Boo Radley, I went to Public HS so you should just go back, press control, C and delete that."
Control-c copies. It does not delete.
lol, yeah beingobjective, I'll call them d@mn Southerners and you've been calling them d@mn Yankees. Maryland doesn't get a break! yeah boo i guess i meant, you can press control, C and delete. That should work i think, but whatever I'm realizing more than ever it's really just a private school issue.
So great lacrosse isn't found in public schools down there? That's a shame. The only private schools on Long Island (and that's 6 million people in Nassau/Suffolk keep in mind) are St Anthony's/Chaminade/Kellenburg and the best teams can beat them. Ward Melville won like 40 straight games or something crazy when I was in HS 10 years ago. They were #1. Several programs go back almost 100 years. We all quit football in 11th grade to concentrate on our lax season and scholarships
Ahh...someone who will actually say it like it is. Those who dont want to hear, acknowledge, or even consider that this could be truth are simply naive.
The problem is NOT lacrosse, or ANY sport for that matter, and it is NOT confined to a geographical region or even a socioeconomic class.
The problem is that two or three or four generations of American youth of ALL races, colors, and backgrounds have grown up without sufficient structure, without discipline, without a stable family and constant parental presence. The change from my own childhood - say, 30 years ago - and today, is shocking.
We used to have behavioral norms that were generally accepted, and those which were shunned. Now that is viewed as antiquated, prudish, and judgmental.
Parents today want to be well-thought-of, and considered "cool." They are adolescents with paychecks. They no longer raise children with limits - if they raise them at all. Instead, children fend for themselves in day care and aftercare, and parents guilt-ridden by divorce or absence lavish their children with THINGS, cram their schedules with activities, and generally try to compensate for their own sense of inadequacies by living through their children's inflated accomplishments and distorted sense of their own importance.
Everything in the culture this author describes (and by that I mean the general culture, not George Huguely's in particular) - the sense of immunity from "rules," the binge drinking and recreational drug abuse, the "hookup" culture and promiscuity and disease, the disdain for others' feelings - all comes from the abandonment of adulthood and the worship of adolescence.
No surprise here. Nor will I be surprised when the explanations and the finger-pointing are at everything except ourselves. WE - and the culture we have come to tolerate - are the problem.
@ justbeinobjective, Maryland is in fact SOUTH of the Mason Dixon Line it runs along the boarder of Penn & Delaware with Maryland being SOUTH of those 2 states. I take this to heart, as I was born in Maryland and then raised in Tenn and VA (Charlottesville) and I am appalled at the un-southern attitudes of Marylanders. They act worse then people in NYC. I try and remind people that MD/DC is in fact in the SOUTH.
Their decision to continue the men's season was preceded by the Love family urging them to do so as that's what they believe Yeardley would have wanted. It's important to remember how passionate she was about Lacrosse and UVa. she was friends with many Men's players and several of them were even pallbearers at her funeral. Whether Starsia should have been overruled by Casteen or Littlepage is another story. Canceling it would have been an admission of some sort of culpability, and they seem to be subscribing to the best defense is a good offense strategery.
Mike's on to something sort of, but it boils down to people being enchanted and blinded by massive wealth - think The Talented Mr. Ripley, Great Expectations, the Great Gatsby, I don't think it's a question of north or south, but which enclave you're in or on the edges of.
This was a great article, that raises some important question. It might have been more effective if it recognized that the culture he is dissecting is really only a subset - even if this subset does produce the majority of men's college players. Another great article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/07/AR201005... (though not perfect).
Nobody is responsible for her death but GH. But at the same time, nobody tried to be a hero, nobody tried to even be a man. Hopefully this discussion will eventually lead to a place where our culture's sense of masculinity values protecting the vulnerable over being a bro.
I have been sending information about the Love/Huguely tragedy to my daughter (who is now in college) because she was involved in a similar relationship. The boy came from a relatively wealthy family. They both attended a private parochial high school with a reputation for great athletics. He just happened to be a lacrosse player. I noticed marks on her body and told her she needed to stop seeing him. He didn't "hit" her, but was overly physical when he "tickled" her or they "wrestled". There were bruises. I told her this "leaving marks on her" was a sign of agression and ownership. She didn't believe me. He had a temper, too. He drank and did drugs (she drank, too (she wasn't perfect) - as did the majority of students at that school). He called her derogatory names. He smashed the interior of her car and damaged the exterior in a rage. I made him pay for the damage. She told his parents she was concerned for him and asked them to get him help. They ignored it. He did whatever he liked. He had recreational sex with any girl he could. There were rumors of steroids. I STRONGLY encouraged my daughter to go to school on the west coast, saying it would be an opportunity to see the rest of the country and meet different people, but truthfully, I wanted her far, far away from him. Thank goodness she went west and finally, FINALLY, saw him for what he was and got away before he could leave any permanent marks on her or perhaps do something more serious. I love my daughter more than life itself and would have done anything to get her to see him for what he was. In college, he was arrested for assaulting someone. He has now dropped out of school. Although I have no care in the world for the boy, I sincerely wish his parents would open up their eyes and truly see what they have created by their own hands and somehow help the boy, if possible. IT IS NOT LACROSSE (by the way, my uncle was an All-American Lacross Player at the City College of NY), IT IS NOT FOOTBALL, IT IS NOT ICE HOCKEY, IT IS NOT ANY SPORT THAT CREATES THIS TYPE OF PERSON. It is a sense of entitlement and lack of accountability that parents bestow upon their children that can create this kind of person. North, south, east or west doesn't matter. The sport doesn't matter. It's the person.
The Mason-Dixon line actually separates Maryland and Pennsylvania.
Cookie....Maryland is a border state... You ask yourself if the area that George Hugely come from exhibits Southern or Northern elitist values:
Maryland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Maryland's history as a border state has led it to exhibit characteristics of both the Northern and Southern regions of the United States. ...
Boo are you on a quest to attack me or something? I'm not allowed to have a preference for women from one region or another? I don't like the attitude I hear music about California Girls, do the Beach Boys insult you too then? I'm allowed to have an opinion on a matter of subjects, and I've already apologized for generalizing my viewpoint on not making it clear that I was referring to "lacrosse players" from NY. Back off man
Finally, if you cannot differentiate the difference in lacrosse culture between the NYC metro area and the Syracuse region from the DC Maryland area, even if it is simply a function of the sport being more prevalent and exclusive to PRIVATE HIGH SCHOOLS in the DC Maryland area there is nothing more I can do.
***
The rest of us have always done this. The article is about a particular type of lacrosse culture that predominates in prep schools in various areas. It is not about lacrosse in every area. We all understood this. You're the one who stereotypes about areas and people generally.
Saying things along the lines of "The South has better food and women and the living is easy" or "California was founded by rich slaveowners (insert additional incoherent nonsense)" identifies you as someone who doesn't even realize that he's making crude stereotypes and generalizations.
To Ed B.. I wasn't making any differentiation in WHERE the public schools are since there are more on the list than Just J-D or West Genny.. (and kudos for KNOWING that we call it J-D in the first place anyway.. ).. And the historic reason for good public schools in upstate NY is the general lack of segregated schools... and the taxes!! You pay for the good public schools up there.. there's only ONE main private school in Syracuse. CBA.. home of Greg Paulis.. AND > Frank,, West Genny being ranked THAT low surprises me.. must be a couple of off years.. But the point of the matter is that LAX originated in the Iroquois Nation as a peaceful game not unlike the Olympics.. played over hundreds of square miles and territories.. a far cry from what it is now.. and NCAA wants to spread the sport with good reason. its fast and exciting.. I hope this incident and the prior Duke debacle and any further "jock/preppy acting out" doesn’t spoil it for the rest of the sport world. And maybe this was just in the Baltimore press but the Love family asked the school to continue the season in memory of Yeardly.. and the coach's father died too. Lots of saddness to this story...
For Boo Radley @Mike...I think the Mason-Dixon line is the drawing point....Maryland is NORTH of that....
Probably the most enlightening and telling sentences in your essay are:
1. "Eight players have been charged with alcohol-related offenses while playing for Coach Starsia, a player’s committed suicide, and a player’s allegedly killed someone."
2. In my experience, the ââ?¬Å?lacrosse social scene” looks upon alcohol abuse as routine, with marijuana and cocaine ubiquitous, women disposable, and outsiders incidental.
As we now know from statements by students, Coach Starsia was fully aware that months prior to Huguely killing Love, that Huguely had attacked and physically assaulted a team member WHILE that team member was asleep. Coach Starsia did little about Huguely's criminal acts and according to the school, the Coach failed to even report the assault.
I believe that in addition to holding Huguely responsible of this crime that Coach Starsia should be FIRED due to the gross negligence & bad judgment he displayed in failing to report Huguely's prior assault of a fellow student.
Frank and Boo...I can't say it enough. Please read what I'm saying below. Both posters, Jeff and Ed B , would agree with my point. Maybe it just bothers me how much negative press my sport receivers from the rich, private school kids in the DC Maryland area who are considered THE BEST players in the area whereas in NY, kids from public schools are the best players (simply look at the authors top 10 list, and if it was expanded it would show are stark difference)
ONce again:
Finally, if you cannot differentiate the difference in lacrosse culture between the NYC metro area and the Syracuse region from the DC Maryland area, even if it is simply a function of the sport being more prevalent and exclusive to PRIVATE HIGH SCHOOLS in the DC Maryland area there is nothing more I can do. IT IS A BIG DIFFERENCE
but I wouldn’t use the area as a source of pride if I came from somewhere that produced George Hugely.
***
But, Mike, according to you, George is a Northerner, coming from the same school (Landon) as a "Northern" Duke player that you said was mistreated by Southerners.
Anybody here (other than Mike) consider Maryland part of the South?
Mike, in a misguided attempt to ingratiate yourself, you said, "I love the South, come on you have better food, better weather, better women and take it easy at a slow pace."
That is insulting. You have now deemed yourself to be the grader of women. You can decide on the quality of womanhood in multiple regions of the country.
But you think it is a compliment because *you* have determined that Southern women are better.
Do you also judge dog shows?
BUT ”Što correct your facts.. you forgot that West Genessee High (PUBLIC SCHOOL) in Syracuse is one of (if not THE) best LAX high school in the country..
***
The author did not forget - he obviously just used current national rankings. West Genessee appears to be around #257 this year:
http://www.laxpower.com/update10/binboy/natlccr.php
LOL @ Mike
"We are just better human beings up North."
"We don’t have fortunes acquired through the abuse of slavery, unlike many families residing in the Maryland/DC area."
"Heck anyone with the name ending in ââ?¬Å?the 4th” would have gotten beat up throughout public school! I dont’ even know anyone where I come from that goes to private school you get beat up for being privileged in the first place!"
You really give yourself credibility and "destroy" the author's premise with statements like these.
This Huguely kid is a sociopath, it's just a coincidence he played lacrosse. He's a spoiled rich kid that committed a senseless murder, but senseless murders are committed every day and blogs and papers don't devote any time to analyzing to social cause of each one. The fact that this kid played lacrosse just ends up being a good story for those in the media. They get to bring the Duke case back up, I've seen reporters that actually draw some kind of comparison between George Huguely and the falsely accused kids from Duke. Did someone blame the victims parents for letting her go to UVA, it sure sounded that way.
To "Mike": If you think the poop of the NY and NJ folks doesn't stink, think again. Your prisons are full of the same types of criminals as any other states. If anything, Virginia is much less lenient in dealing with criminal behavior than our northern counterparts. The term "bleeding heart liberal" doesn't describe all that many folks down here. You might think your lacrosse players are somehow morally superior to those in VA and MD, but that opinion has no basis in fact. The only difference is that Huguely will be paying a much higher price than if he had committed his crime in NY, NJ or elsewhere in the higher-principled North. I seem to recall a certain rich brat in MA who drove off a bridge drunk, let his young female passenger die, and didn't pay any price whatsoever. Another rich brat in CT bashed a young girl's head in with a gold club and went scot-free for many years before finally facing justice. Then there's the "Preppie Killer" who only got 15 years for manslaughter.
Very interesting article. Your inferences about "Lax Culture" mirrors the culture of most high school and college sport scenes. It's so sad that we are often blinded by someone's athletic ability. The "Jock Culture" in no way helps one to become a responsible, accountable member of society. Instead it teaches them a sense of entitlement that many times leads them pushing the envelope in every direction.
(California was created by rich elite slaveholders trying to escape during the Civil war by the ââ?¬Å?better” people who had to put an end to their nonsense)
***
That's right - the Spanish colonization, Mexican rule, a little thing called "the 1849 Gold Rush" - these things had little effect on the development of California.
I knew someone from the South would speak up and defend themselves!
There certainly are Frankhardy, but first they don't behave like George Hugely, nor would the systems of law allow anyone to get away with such privilege (think Plaxico spending 2 years in prison for even discharging a gun into himself - laws are stricter bottom line) And second, they don't play lacrosse in Midtown Manhattan, Lower East side, Greenwich, East Village Manhattan...it's not a prevalent sport in Manhattan and you don't go to private school where i come from.
Based on the total population, the amount of HS students proportionate to the total amount of private HS students, the latter is so much greater in the DC area. I didn't even know what a trust fund was, nor did any of us heard the term "new" vs "old" money and what it entails until i stepped foot in DC and San Francisco (California was created by rich elite slaveholders trying to escape during the Civil war by the "better" people who had to put an end to their nonsense)
Get my drift! Keep in mind if you are one of the 95% of the good people down there I do not mean to disrespect, but there is a ruling class in the South that is pathetic and does not exist up North. You have lying and stealiing #$#$# like Bernie Madoff instead lol!
Have you ever considered that your view of lacrosse and the people that play it may be a bit skewed due to the fact that you only seem to associate with these kids from elite private schools. In the MD/DV/NOVA area just about every public school plays lacrosse. These kids are just normal kids, I was one of them, I was friends growing up witht them. When I got to college and played lacrosse I was introduced to a whole different kind of lacrosse player, the elite prep school player you describe. I had known some and we had played against some, but playing on the same team you could really tell the private school players from public school. I think this is more an indictment of these kids in general from these private schools, they all seem to feel entitled and above everyone else, not just the lacrosse players. The lacrosse players may be a bit more obnoxious about it, but in most regards all these kids thought they were better than everyone else. Maybe that's the problem, not the sport of lacrosse?
This is an amazing essay and an important one. As a Midwesterner who moved to DC, I was at first baffled by the aura around the whole LAX scene. But I agree with the author that the Lacrosse culture is complicit in this tragedy -- another bubble to protect the privileged from responsibility for their actions. So interesting that sport created by Native Americans would be warped to pave the way for more entitled rich kids to get scholarships to elite schools because they excel in a sport that only they play. One can only hope it's popularity as the "in" sport helps it trickle down, so that a more humble group of athletes with a more realistic view of the world, not to mention a heckuva lot more heart, take it over as they have every other sport.
In keeping with your anthroplogical perspective, and as someone who is Celtic and native American in ancestry, I wanted to share the following:
"In the Celtic religion the head was considered to hold an individual’s essence or soul. Head hunting was an essential by-product of Celtic warfare. Normally, an enemies head was treasured ââ?¬â?? except in those instances when the enemy was regarded as half human or bestial. Then ââ?¬â?? the enemies head was given to the children to use as they thought fit ââ?¬â?? normally resulting in what we would today call a ball game from which football and rugby derive."
"Apart from its recreational function, lacrosse traditionally played a more serious role in Indian culture. Its origins are rooted in legend, and the game continues to be used for curative purposes and surrounded with ceremony. Game equipment and players are still ritually prepared by conjurers, and team selection and victory are often considered supernaturally controlled.
In the past, lacrosse also served to vent aggression, and territorial disputes between tribes were sometimes settled with a game, although not always amicably. A Creek versus Choctaw game around 1790 to determine rights over a beaver pond broke out into a violent battle when the Creeks were declared winners. Still, while the majority of the games ended peaceably, much of the ceremonialism surrounding their preparations and the rituals required of the players were identical to those practiced before departing on the warpath."
When you adopt a ritual and warfare practice for entertainment/sport one must be aware of the elements within us it is designed to evoke. Violence and territorial rights are the root of both sports.
If we encourage young men to play with these forces, we must build in elements to mitigate and contain this aggression. When we do not, the violence will spill into the community.
"The ancient rule of Lacrosse wherein "the cardinal rule in all varieties of lacrosse was that the ball, with few exceptions, must not be touched with the hands." The cardinal rule of society should be that women, without exception, must not be violently touched with the hands.
But somehow this is forgotten all too often. It is chilling that he admitted banging her head --specifically--against the wall repeatedly. Women are not "half-human" enemies of the ancient Celtic tribes to be kicked about like a rugby or football.
@Kathy- rich people took over the Native Americans land, why wouldn't they take their sports, too?
This is an insightful essay - glad to see that the Hook republished it.
I think it is important to know who your kids are dating in college.
Lacrossey is a joke
Thank you for the essay, many of us with college age kids are trying to understand how in HELL this could happen.
Wow! Two initial reactions to your essay. Firstly, you obviously did not have a positive social experience in high school or college in regards to lacrosse players. Your synopsis is very one dimensional and does not take into account countless lacrosse players who are public school students and who come from middle class families. Secondly, and more importantly, lacrosse did not cause Yeardley's death. As a parent of four children, three of whom play lacrosse, it seems to me that it is our society and parents that fail to hold children accountable for mistakes and bad choices they make. We want our children to always "feel good". We blame everyone but our children when things don't work out the way we want them to. If they aren't the star on the team, instead of telling our sons and daughters to work harder, listen to your coach and be a good team player, we tell them it's the coach's fault. As parent's, coaches, teachers we need to start holding our children, athletes and students to a higher standard. And most importantly, hold them accountable the FIRST time they make a mistake or bad choice. In the end, they will be better person.
We are just better human beings up North
***
Lovely stereotyping. That's right - there are no pampered and arrogant private school kids in the Northeast. None in Manhattan, none in Philadelphia, none in exclusive prep schools throughout New England.
hakafos....I like the history lesson!
The only reason Lacrosse is concentrated in the Mid Atlantic and Northeast is because of the indigenous American Indian populations in the region. Nothing more...
The most intriguing lacrosse American history parallel was the murder of British troops in Fort Michillimanic (spelling!) somewhere in Michigan by Detroit. After the conquest of New France the British parliament was clueless on how to tame and relate to American Indian populations through frontier. Things got so out of hand that a GAME OF LACROSSE WAS STAGED BY LOCAL INDIAN GROUPS, AND THE BRITISH TROOPS WERE NOT AT ATTENTION AND SIMPLY WATCHING THE SPECTACLE, WHAT INSUED WAS UNBELIEVABLE! THE WOMEN IN THE FORT HID WEAPONS IN THEIR ATTIRE AND DURING THE GAME THE BALL WAS ROLLED INTO THE FORT AND ALL OF SUDDEN A MASS MURDER OF ALL BRITISH TOOK PLACE. EVERYONE WAS EVENTUALLY KILLED EXCEPT FOR A FRENCH FAMILY LEFT TO TALK ABOUT THE MASSACRE! THERE WERE POOLS OF BLOOD EVERYWHERE, BRITISH TROOPS BEING ROASTED AND EATEN ALIVE, ETC.
And people say lacrosse players aren't tough lol
@Mike
Inane drivel from a short-sighted bigot.
Do you realize what happened when the South tried to challenge 3 Northern lacrosse players and their families at Duke, resulting in disbarred lawyer, public shame for both Duke and Durham, and over $25,000,000 in restitution payments paid out of Dukes endowment to those 3 players and coach Mike Pressler?
***
Wasn't one of these 3 players from the Landon School, the same school as George Hugueley, V?
And people from poor communities never wear the same style clothes, never wear their hats backwards, and never commit crimes (since they didn't have a privileged upbringing)...
Anyone spot the fallacies?
In my opinion, UVA's decision to play has very little to do with honoring Yeardley Love, it's merely propaganda for the game to go on and further elevates the importance of Lacrosse. If UVA truly wanted to honor her they wouldn't play at all, that action alone would have much greater impact in expressing how horrible and tragic the loss of her life is than in "continuing the season to honor her". How can a win or finishing the season even come close to compensating for what has happened. As if Landon winning was a consolation..... It's pure denial. UVA's season was over when Yeardley Love was murdered by one of their own. It's incredulous to believe otherwise. Their decision to play only perpetuates the culture you described and to whom UVA and their coaches are equally responsible for and contributed to.
Mike - California became a state in 1850 due to the influx of settlers because of the Gold Rush. Your claims about the importance of the Civil War on its development are, unsurprisingly, uninformed and delusional.
Very good thoughts.. this is a tragedy of epic proportions for both families. no one knows what both families are going thru right... two lives shattered.. a modern day Romeo and Juliet, albeit not the same story line. Some parents just can't reign in their kids. Either they don't want to or can't. Alcohol and drugs are epidemic in the LAX culture. But thats the preppy world for you. Money and advantage.. what a waste.. BUT ...to correct your facts.. you forgot that West Genessee High (PUBLIC SCHOOL) in Syracuse is one of (if not THE) best LAX high school in the country.. and I'm a Syracuse boy and my wife went to Jamesville-DeWitt HS. (our nemesis from F-M) I NEVER heard of any such issues at either school.. maybe the public school system in Syracuse knows something the private preppy schools in Maryland don't. how to raise your kids with respect for others. just a thought.. since most of the other schools on the list are expensive private schools.
Perhaps we could save a lot of time if people realized that the description of prep school lacrosse culture described in the article is not the same lacrosse culture that may predominate in their local area.
I agree, UVA wants everything to go on as if nothing happened, and this sends a powerful message to everyone considering where they want to send their kids to college.
@Mike:
If you met over a hundred lacrosse players, I can GUARANTEE you that you have, in fact, met a lacrosse player that would hit a woman. (The same is true if you met over a hundred lawyers, physicians, baseball players, tuba players, etc.)
And your Northern elitist attitude is actually the same attitude that this writer attributes to lacrosse players. It's that impression that you are better than others by your "privilege" of birth. In your case, it is the snobbery of geography of your parents' locale instead of their assets.
According to you, your private school friends show violent tendencies toward people based on bias regarding other people's financial circumstances. Real classy people, there. Somehow it is right to assault the wealthy, but you would be the first in line to hang those same wealthy people if they assaulted anyone you deem more important.
The Duke lacrosse players' lawsuit had its basis, not in privilege, but in discrimination. It was the discriminatory behavior that permitted one person's (false) accusation to facilitate the demonizing of a group of people. If people had not jumped on the racially-tainted bandwagon, there would have been no lawsuit. Metaphorically speaking, it was a racially motivated lynching. But because the victims in this case were of a class you deem unworthy, you think they should be punished for having the misfortune of being victims of a more valuable human.
Your whole rant shows the same superiority complex, propensity for violence, and disgust for those classes you deem inferior as the writer of the article. You've just chosen different people as the subjects of your hatred. You are no better than the people the article writer describes.
And then you have the gall to say that "although my opinion is pretty harsh I mean no disrespect". Did you mean no disrespect when you said, "We are just better human beings up North"? That is not a respectful statement by any stretch of the imagination. Therefore, not only are you an elitist, a bigot, and someone willing to assault another person based on their bank account, you are either a liar or you really need a dictionary.
Mike, this area didn't produce George Huguely, Maryland a "Northern" state did.
Ummm @Mike--I grew up in an affluent area of the South. And while there are certainly misguided boys everywhere, the South does not have the market cornered. Does Robert Chambers ring a bell? I have been in CT for 25 years and I have seen plenty of arrogant prepster boys here in Fairfield County and throughout New England. My son played four years of football against plenty of them. Plenty. You should apologize. Really.
The culture in upstate NY public schools is certainly different than in a DC area elite private school, it doesn't take a genius to figure that out Jeff. I'm a MD public school lacrosse player and I couldn't relate to the kids from schools like Landon. I got along with the kids from JD and WG but couldn't relate to the kids from Holderness, Exeter or even Chaminade. I think that all has to do with being raised in a priveledged family vs a middle class family. It would be silly and simplistic to somehow turn this into a New Yorkers know how to raise their kids and Marylanders don't.
The question is why did no one stop his actions? Because no one had the BALLS to do so- not his parents, his ââ?¬Å?friends”, his coaches, the school, the judges, the lawyers, yadda, yadda, yadda”Š”Šthey all knew that this punk was a friggin’ disaster. The schools gets rid of you for poor grades and educational standards, but not for poor life standards.
Wake up everyone- it was his fault, and he knows it Boy George- BOHICA!!!!
Frank thing again...you want to call me uneducated and delusional you should think again. Like I said you should read the book I recommended:
After the victory in the Mexican War, both northerners and southerners viewed California as the prize acquisition. With its lush, fertile soil, southerners saw the great agricultural potential, especially if California was open to slavery. Northern merchants envisioned the building of numerous ports and the chance to dominate the China trade. Of course, the discovery of gold at Sutter's Mill in January 1848 dramatically magnified the hopes and dreams of Americans devoted to "Manifest Destiny." The gold rush launched a sort of national madness that populated the West, turned some into instant millionaires, and others into frozen corpses. As Richards illustrates, it also intensified the hostility between the North and South; at a minimum, it was a contributing factor in causing the Civil War. Richards offers a broad panorama that moves seamlessly from the goldfields to the halls of Congress. This is an excellent work of popular history that will add to the appreciation of a critical epoch in our national development. Jay Freeman
Copyright © American Library Association. All rights reserved
I love how I'm getting criticized for making accurate points because you can't grasp that the issue here is one of Sourthern privilege, more than a lacrosse one...and I'm not arguing there are not pieces of crap up North, but in general lacrosse players aren't the pieces of crap up North. Look what happened @ Duke when the entire the Southern community attempted to crucify these 3 individuals for what was assumed to be abuses of justice from rich white prep school kids, that continually go on down South, but unfortunately NONE OF THEM WERE FROM THE SOUTH! Is this so hard to grasp? Meanwhile the "victim" is on trial for attempted murder, the police and DA are facing lawsuits and possible jail time, the Duke president is shamed, several Duke faculty behaved in a deplorable manner, etc, etc, etc This would not have happened in a "privileged" school in the North...
cookie, I just realized you were bringing up those persons who benefited from the slave trade in the North in the 1600/1700's etc...no duh, the slave trade was still functioning up there. If you want to argue that Northern families still benefit from the proceeds of slavery more than Southern families still do to this day than you are crazy
Mike - you continually fail to recognize the basic point that people have repeatedly pointed out to you. Just because some people in the Northeast who abuse privilege don't play lacrosse doesn't mean that some people in the Northeast don't abuse privilege. Your generalizations and stereotypes are absurd.
Two quotes from Mike:
"We are just better human beings up North"
"I love the South"
UVAmom I apologize for generalizing, but Robert Chambers wasn't a lacrosse player. I should have clarified that I'm being specific to my sport, although I do maintain my opinion that those who grow up North are a little more grounded, even if it's a function of growing up around with more diversity, and less segregation as it exists in the South.
It's more of a Public vs Private HS issue anyway
Its funny I'm getting criticized for criticizing people like George Hugely, not people in the South who grow up in a "normal" town, attend public HS and become good functioning members of society, unlike George Hugely the 4th who abuse their privilege and become monsters. I'm claiming this article needs to be written as a DC area lacrosse issue in a greater context of Southern privilege. I love the South, come on you have better food, better weather, better women and take it easy at a slow pace. And I don't even like New York City lol
same source as above:
"Even after slavery was outlawed in the North, ships out of New England continued to carry thousands of Africans to the American South. Some 156,000 slaves were brought to the United States in the period 1801-08, almost all of them on ships that sailed from New England ports that had recently outlawed slavery. Rhode Island slavers alone imported an average of 6,400 Africans annually into the U.S. in the years 1805 and 1806. The financial base of New England's antebellum manufacturing boom was money it had made in shipping. And that shipping money was largely acquired directly or indirectly from slavery, whether by importing Africans to the Americas, transporting slave-grown cotton to England, or hauling Pennsylvania wheat and Rhode Island rum to the slave-labor colonies of the Caribbean."
Boo Radley, I went to Public HS so you should just go back, press control, C and delete that.
If you are whole RANT intends to criticize me for being a bigot/closed minded you are way off base. You are also attempting to make so many points you lack any clarity in meaning. There is nothing wrong with having pride in and growing up in an area (Southern Long Island), in which you have very limited wealth, ethnic diversity and a propensity of helping others. I was VP of NHS, I'm working for a Masters in social work. DId I go overboard saying "we are better people up North?" Of course, BUT WHAT I MEANT IS WE, AS IN "LACROSSE PLAYERS" ARE BETTER PEOPLE UP NORTH!!!
But no, I'm getting criticized left and right for this one sweeping statement, and you have noticed I have not ONCE MADE ONE NEGATIVE COMMENT TO ONE PERSON ON HERE like the multiple comments fired at me; if that is not sign that perhaps i'm not a terrible person then I don't know what is.
Finally, if you cannot differentiate the difference in lacrosse culture between the NYC metro area and the Syracuse region from the DC Maryland area, even if it is simply a function of the sport being more prevalent and exclusive to PRIVATE HIGH SCHOOLS in the DC Maryland area there is nothing more I can do. IT IS A BIG DIFFERENCE
ââ?¬Å?We are just better human beings up North”
"BUT WHAT I MEANT IS WE, AS IN ââ?¬Å?LACROSSE PLAYERS” ARE BETTER PEOPLE UP NORTH!!!"
***
For Mike, "human beings" = "lacrosse players."
FrankHardy, I wonder if he extends it to:
Not lacrosse player = Not human
Boo Radley May 11th, 2010 | 1:59 pm
Two quotes from Mike:
ââ?¬Å?We are just better human beings up North”
ââ?¬Å?I love the South”
Unlike all of you I enjoy my time down there visiting, but I wouldn't use the area as a source of pride if I came from somewhere that produced George Hugely.
Frank if you filter all my "absurd" and "stereotypical" statements with the understanding that I'm referring to "Lacrosse players from NY" and not necessarily the area as a whole, my points will make a whole lot more sense. Fair?
Finally, if you cannot differentiate the difference in lacrosse culture between the NYC metro area and the Syracuse region from the DC Maryland area, even if it is simply a function of the sport being more prevalent and exclusive to PRIVATE HIGH SCHOOLS in the DC Maryland area there is nothing more I can do. IT IS A BIG DIFFERENCE
***
But Mike, you're the one who didn't make this point originally, and instead have continued to engage in all mannner of social and geographic stereotyping as well as historical inaccuracy.
Here's hoping that GWHv can start up a prison-yard lacrosse team and is able to become the long-term coach after 15 or 20 years of playing.
Refer to FrankHardy @ 2:25. He said it best.
I have to say in a way I agree with what the writer has said, but I feel it's not the sport, but the wealth and privilege of these type of kids that make them feel as they are free to do as they please and will not have to suffer the same way the rest of the world does. I say this taking into account the Hugely was friends with the Duke students charged with rape and he even spoke out in their defense. I say this having grown up around kids like this, that partied hard and broke rules, that then their parents protected them from the reproductions. I have thought long and hard about this, because I am a parent of a lacrosse player, he is 8 years old and in his 2nd year of the sport, LOVES it and is looking at doing it year round. I’ve thought about the spotlight that this and the Duke incident put on the sport, but I truly believe that it’s not the sport, but many other factors that shape the person. My son is the product of a single parent household and knows nothing else, as it’s been this way since he was 2. I am fortunate that I have a stable career and make a decent living to be able to afford him the opportunity to be involved in many extra circular activates and I know (having grown up as a national competitive athlete), that if you balance out the benefits of sports with the right amount of respect, discipline, humility and teaching your kids to be accountable for their actions, these types of things will not happen. My son will continue to play lacrosse for as long as he likes and hopefully he will get a scholarship to one of those prep schools and then onto college, I will say that looking at lacrosse camps for the summer, I’m not sure that the UVA camp with staff from Landon is going to be my first choice. I believe someone needs to look at the parent involvement and the ideas and beliefs of the Landon coaching staff, since this is the 2nd time some of their players have been involved in an issue this extreme.
Wow! I think all of you need to take a basic statistics class. The fact that you are all attempting to not only establish correlation between lacrosse and murder, but causation between lacrosse and murder, or being from the south and murder, or whatever other inept generalizations you are making is frankly a little embarrassing for you (and your I.Q.). The only way to demonstrate that any of these things (being from the south, playing lacrosse, being rich, etc.) is the cause of murder would be to rule out that being from the north, not playing lacrosse, or being poor means you don't murder). This is basics people.
The sad part is that, while all of you continue wasting your time finger-pointing, others will be murdered uneccessarily because efforts are misdirected at correcting the problem. The bottom line is, we are not sophisticated enough in our understanding of human behavior to know why this happened. George Huguely was unable in that moment to restrain himself from harming another person. He lacked the empathy and coping skills to avoid this outcome. BUT, there are 1000s of other rich lacrosse players who experience unrequited love and DO NOT murder because they have a different set of skills and a developed sense of empathy (which, by the way, is developed by the time you are 5).
There are MANY other George Huguely's out there with the same background as him that DO NOT commit murder and because of that, the only aspect that can explain his ability to murder are the unique intricacies of his own behavioral development. Either he is mentally disturbed or suffered from systemic family dysfunction. This is what explains his actions and NOTHING else.
This does not mean it was right. But, until we start doing the hard work of digging deeper and trying to understand the individual within the complex system in which they develop, we will continue burying innocent victims.
If we as a society could wake up and accept this, maybe we would spend more time talking about the right issues.
Having read this essay, and as a former Duke Lacrosse player, I have to say that I agree with much of it as to the culture that these kids grow up in. I thought that it was interesting, however, that none of the emphasis of this article involved the parents. Maybe we'll find more of this out later, but WHERE were they? More importantly and to the point made in this article - where was Coach Starsia? The same question was asked over and over regarding Caoch Pressler at Duke, and no one died there - and he still resigned. Far from that, Coach Starsia is proceeding with a business as usual approach, with the superficial impimater of decency, that it is OK to play in the NCAAs as long as the parents of murdered player approve. I'd like to see Coach Starsia do the right thing and decide that even with he approval of Yeardly's mom, that now is probably not the best time to move forward business as usual, as if nothing has happened. Then and only then will the players see that people's actions (whether theirs or soemone elses) have copnsequences and that these consequences can not just be swept under the rug, like so many disgarded beer cans, the night after a big bash.
Wow! I think all of you need to take a basic statistics class. The fact that you are all attempting to not only establish correlation between lacrosse and murder, but causation between lacrosse and murder, or being from the south and murder, or whatever other inept generalizations you are making is frankly a little embarrassing for you (and your I.Q.). The only way to demonstrate that any of these things (being from the south, playing lacrosse, being rich, etc.) is the cause of murder would be to rule out that being from the north, not playing lacrosse, or being poor means you don’t murder). This is basics people.
The sad part is that, while all of you continue wasting your time finger-pointing, others will be murdered uneccessarily because efforts are misdirected at correcting the problem. The bottom line is, we are not sophisticated enough in our understanding of human behavior to know why this happened. George Huguely was unable in that moment to restrain himself from harming another person. He lacked the empathy and coping skills to avoid this outcome. BUT, there are 1000s of other rich lacrosse players who experience unrequited love and DO NOT murder because they have a different set of skills and a developed sense of empathy (which, by the way, is developed by the time you are 5).
There are MANY other George Huguely’s out there with the same background as him that DO NOT commit murder and because of that, the only aspect that can explain his ability to murder are the unique intricacies of his own behavioral development. Either he is mentally disturbed or suffered from systemic family dysfunction. This is what explains his actions and NOTHING else.
This does not mean it was right. But, until we start doing the hard work of digging deeper and trying to understand the individual within the complex system in which they develop, we will continue burying innocent victims.
Please stop blaming the game of lacrosse for a kid who obviously had issues controlling his anger while under the influence of drugs and alcohol. There are a lot of people who live in trailer parks who have the same problem.
Since the only two stories that have attracted national news for the sport of lacrosse involve a murder case and a rape case, it’s no wonder people have this ridiculous view that lacrosse is some kind of club for over privileged white kids who think they are above the law. There have been similar stories of violence against women from multiple basketball and football players and as far as I know they all were not from elite east coast prep schools.
People get murdered by people they know every day in American, the only reason this case is getting more press then those cases is because it is not common and people like to read about events like this especially when they happen to attractive people with money.
And not ever good lacrosse player is bred from millionaire parents- a lot of these high schools with hefty price tags offer good athletes scholarships to go there so they can maintain their athletic programs. Also, I am not sure you have ever purchased lacrosse equipment before but besides the $100 for the stick the equipment isn’t any more (probably less) expensive then football equipment and the game is played outside on a grass field with two metal posts.
This is the worst series of comments I've ever seen here. Focus people.
As for the article, it is written by a kid who lives in a bubble and oddly enough is about another person's life in a bubble. It really is a weak and pointless essay. Sorry to have read it.
Enough with the beating-a-dead horse coverage of this story. A murder happened, why must it be milked for all its worth, every possible aspect of things written about and then endlessly debated by stay at home moms, retired older folks and computer warriors at work with too much time on their hands? Now we're going to speculate on what the families of each are thinking if they cross paths? Enough already!
Thanks Shannon for reference...
Good job Boo, so we now know the fact that Maryland is by definition a Southern state since it lies south of the Mason Dixon Line...you want to take that back now below:
Boo Radley May 11th, 2010 | 2:20 pm
Anybody here (other than Mike) consider Maryland part of the South?
justbeingobjective you might have to use a new name bro!
Mike you also forget to ignore that the south is more integrated than the north, which you believe contrary, because there is a much heavier African American population down here. This is coming from someone who grew up in Baltimore and played lacrosse and now lives in Alabama. Maybe you should leave New York and experience what a culture is really about by spending time there before you put labels on things you are uninformed about. And by the way, I have spent significant time in NYC and upstate New York and New England, and I know that there is not much diversification, which you blatently lied about.
A few things for Mikey-boy...
1) Northern VA and Maryland are not "the South," culturally or otherwise. Period. End of story. If you'd spent more than a passing moment there, you'd realize that.
2) In many affluent areas (including...shocker! NY and New England!), public HS's are just as good/elite as private HS's.
3) I am from Richmond, VA, and I have never--EVER--experienced the sort of open racial hostility as the kind that I encountered when living in Brooklyn, NY last summer. The difference is, in the South people generally are more hush-hush about their prejudices (nevermind the legacy of institutional discrimination); in the North, it's matter-of-fact.
Simona...the idea that Yeardly's Mom (I think her dad died in high school) gave consent might comfort Coach Starsia as he makes the wrong decision. I think that appoval was mostly direct at the grief stricken girls team the obvious victims of this horrific event. But understand something - As soemone who played on a top ranked team in the ACC for 4 years I know this situation, this culture and what is going on behind the scenes. I can tell yopu onw thing GH's classmates - the seniors had probably witness many multiple events where they could have intervened and did nothing. In my graduating class there were nine of us and we all knew every part of each others lives - the good, the bad and the ugly. We helped each other, covered for each other, fought with each other -theses guys knew GH and probably knew that he had problems. Whethere they helped in time or not is now irrelevant. Going out and playing lacrosse, right now send a terrible message. These guys needs to take the summer and the rest of their lives for that matter and evaluate all that has happened and how that might relate to them. Getting back to normal is not the goal - for these boys the days of normal are over...a girl is dead. Play lacrosse some other time...
muh muh said:
"It really is a weak and pointless essay. Sorry to have read it."
Exactly! Pointless, weak, beating a dead horse. Enough already! That's how the media is nowadays. Take every tragedy and milk it, stretching it as far as one can possibly stretch it. You see it with the newscasters covering tragedies. Even when there's a lull with no new info. they'll endlessly rehash and browbeat whatever has been revealed, JUST to have something to say and to continue to be on camera. This is why I hate the media. I like The Hook, don't get me wrong, but this is just too much.
For Frank and Boo....my sweeping generalizations and touch of bias in my comments regarding Northern vs Southern culture as a whole was a terrible way to discuss this issue...
I've come to the conclusion that the privilege George Hugely received and the Southern privileged culture that enabled him to behave in such a way, as to go unchecked and unpunished after multiple run ins with the law, whether or not it was a mental health or drug/alcohol issue, outlines the stark difference in lacrosse "culture" portrayed in the Long Island/Syracuse hotbed vs the DC/Maryland one. It might simply be a function of lacrosse being concentrated in private schools of the latter.
This is in response to "Liz" saying "In my opinion, UVA’s decision to play has very little to do with honoring Yeardley Love, it’s merely propaganda for the game to go on and further elevates the importance of Lacrosse. If UVA truly wanted to honor her they wouldn’t play at all".
Well, I am pretty sure you never played a college sport because if you did you would understand the demanding schedule and lifestyle it takes to be a student-athlete. Perhaps you have never done anything this challenging at all.
As a student-athlete you spend your entire year working toward the ultimate goal of going to the national championship. Every part of the year is consumed with working toward this goal. This commitment stems from the players love of the game and desire to be great. Meanwhile, they are expected to be full-time students in good academic standing. They must juggle practice, traveling, games, lifting, homework, tests, other extra-curricular activities, finals, social life, family life, and some student-athletes even hold of job.
To say that the UVA teams should not play on would be as if all of the teams (including Yeardley Love) hard work, dedication, and commitment were for nothing. These teams should play on for themselves, the school, and for Yeardley Love. Bad things happen but it is what you make of the situation that shows what your really made of. Do you think it will be easy for these teams to just move right into practicing and games again with all of this on their minds. To see Yeardley Love's empty locker and her uniform still hanging on the stand? The UVA teams are taking the hard road here by pushing their feelings aside in order to carry on the mission of becoming the country's best lacrosse team even without their fallen member. I wish the UVA teams only the best of luck during the upcoming weekends. Your your resilience is admired and your strength is unmeasurable.
RIP Yeardley Love
trevor, you mean other than the beer bong?
outlines the stark difference in lacrosse ââ?¬Å?culture” portrayed in the Long Island/Syracuse hotbed vs the DC/Maryland one. It might simply be a function of lacrosse being concentrated in private schools of the latter.
***
My understanding is that the traditional lacrosse hotbeds have been 1. Baltimore, 2. Long Island/Upstate NY, 3. private schools. The sport has obviously expanded from those areas, but, yes, I'm sure that there is a public/private school divide.
Very insightful....how about this? ....the POS. had chemical dependency problems from the time he was in Highschool....he is now a Sr. in college...he was on alcohol and possibly other drugs...he was a mean drunk and he killed this beautiful woman....who was trying to break away....and society failed to protect her.
Thank you A Mom. You HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. We as a society, our American society is at falt. We tolerate and glorify this behavior through our culture: materialism, Hollywood, food, TV, violence. We tolerate this, we perpetuate it. If you go against this you are a deemed a crazy nut liberal that is anti-American. Only Huguely is to blame for his actions, but if we take a look at the relationship that he had with his parents I think that this will say a lot.
On another note, how many UVA sports players have been convicted of felonies? Is a college campus and athletics the right place for these young people?
Interesting article from Jon Wertheim in Sports Illustrated:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/magazine/05/11/virginia.lacrosse/i...
Isn't it still the style to wear the sunglasses and croakies backwards around the neck at Foxfield? Hat turned backwards too with a wad of Kodiak packed in the mouth? Abercrombie and Fitch loves us...
Southern preppies rule, how dare anyone suggest we haven't conceived of any good inventions. Our fashion sense alone should be commended. Our attitudes are even more endearing.
Got to get back to drinking my "Fratty" Light now...
Frank and Trevor good posts!
And DM one more thing,
I'm sure it's difficult for you right now having your alma mater receive such criticism because George was a former student. Just as our sport of lacrosse is under attack in various media circles, it's not fair to assign blame to one school for being "responsible" for someone behaving a certain way. There will be ongoing discourse of the reasons why and the answer may never be known. All we can do is use our intellect/education to formulate a hypothesis and discuss. I do think it has a bit to do with the culture private institutions provides. And I spoke as much as I can of the Southern/Northern understanding of lacrosse. The community outrage of Durham would NEVER happen in place, such as Cornell, Hofstra or Stony Brook because the perception of lacrosse players is different.
Anybody else's input would be appreciated.
You don’t seem to know this lax culture as much as you claim
***
Whom are you responding to? The piece was obviously republished from SBNation.com.
I do not believe that any sport, any particular school, or any particular subculture be in Northern, Southern, Mid-western or otherwise creates someone who would unknowingly kill a young woman whom he had been dating.
I do believe that sometimes a family, realizing that a particular child of theirs may have difficulty with aggression issues, or has addiction potential, enrolls them in as many sports as possible hoping to find a sport in which the child develops both self control and self esteem. Sometimes this appears to work, as the child excels in a particular sport, as this one did. Sometimes, the time and money spent should have been on therapy. It can be hard to know which in advance of a tragedy such as this.
1) bill gates dropped out to form microsoft.. while he is a nerd he is hardly a preppie.
2) the baby boomers do have some responsuibility here since they are the ones who spared the rod and spoiled the child.
3) the under 30 crowd are pretty worthless.. they think they deserve a new car house and big screen by only working a forty hour week with three weeks vacation, retirement, full medical and no responsibility to produce. Most of you couldn't outwork a broken vacuum.
4) I hope this guy never sees the light of day.
What a ridiculous article. Just when the Hook looked like it might have some integrity, we have to read the equivalent of a journal entry in an 8th grade English class. Looks like since the autopsy and toxicology reports aren't out the Hook has to go all tabloid on us and start publishing filler.
Kiki--sorry to disagree, but there are no "bad eggs." People are not born bad or good. Infants are essentially empty slates molded and developed by the environment they are immersed in which includes their neighborhood, their school, their family, peer groups, etc. Yes, of course there are people who are born with mental impairments, but they are not born bad and those impairments certainly would have been exposed before this incident. Since we are all hypothesizing here--here goes, GH was born into a wealthy family with parents that did not get along. His father was non-existent, possibly abusive to him and/or his mother. He lived in toxic conflict for many years, saw his father get and take whatever he wanted and no modeling of positive conflict resolution. At the end of his childhood, he had developed no real emotional attachments to anyone in his family because they were emotionally unavailable. His obsession with Yeardley became more of a quest to achieve the emotional connection he never had with this parents. When she rejected him, she became just like his parents--another person that rejected him. The substance abuse problems were a crutch for his pain and when combined with the rejection, it was a lethal combination. YES, he certainly had some predisposed psychological problems that contributed to all of this (i.e., he is not like the rest of us who wouldn't have murdered someone in this instance), but that is the black box we don't know about. We do know that strong parental role models, supportive loving family relationships, and effective modeling of conflict resolution are all barriers to this type of very negative outcome. Sometimes parents are to blame. Sorry.
I agree with Haste, and the nastiness on this blog is a horror to the memory of Yeardley. Shame on all of you nasty posers.
1) bill gates dropped out to form microsoft.. while he is a nerd he is hardly a preppie.
***
He dropped out of Harvard. He graduated from the Lakeside School, an exclusive private high school.
Mike,
May I ask a question. If you're reading this then you must be "down south" going to school or work. If we're so barbaric here.. why are you here?
Go back to your beloved Yankeeville, USA.
@Angela-I was not implying people are born bad or good. I was simplying pointing that in any generation, any peer group, any socioeconomic group you are always going to find some rotten people.
Also, why are you saying his father wasn't around? Where did you read that or how do you know that?
Forgot to add: "His father was non-existent, possibly abusive to him and/or his mother. He lived in toxic conflict for many years, saw his father get and take whatever he wanted and no modeling of positive conflict resolution. At the end of his childhood, he had developed no real emotional attachments to anyone in his family because they were emotionally unavailable. His obsession with Yeardley became more of a quest to achieve the emotional connection he never had with this parents."
Where are you getting this information from? Do you know the family? Yes, some or all of it could be possible but until it is confirmed, all of this is mere speculation. All that is known about his family is that his father's family was very wealthy, his parents divorced, and his mother was a former model.
Ahh - the nature versus nurture debate. Count me on the probably both side. The Bad Seed is a great black and white movie.
This is full of contradictions. If it's so hard to write about, why are you so verbose?
Why spend 4+ paragraphs linking yourself to these events? Showboat. You know people who knew these people? You went to a rival high school? This doesn't increase validity.
If you're going to identify the "culture" (which exists as the writer states), then you can not separate lax from its cutlure. Furthermore, you should not lean on "substances" as a "cause". I know lots of people who know lots of people who take drugs, and they've never smashed anyone's skull. So if it isn't the culutre, then it isn't drugs, either.
Lush with
Um, I think you forgot the #1 High School Lacrosse program in the country, and its a public school in Syracuse, NY. - West Genesee. no tuition required. In upstate NY, its not all about the ââ?¬Å?rich kids” .maybe you should take a ride there sometime
This is full of contradictions. If it's so hard to write about, how are you so verbose?
Why spend 4+ paragraphs linking yourself to these events? Showboat. You know people who knew these people? You went to a rival high school? This doesn't increase validity.
"Ooh! Ooh! This has something to do with me! Ooh! Ooh!" This guy's been waiting for something like this to happen since the tennis blog.
If you're going to identify the "culture" (which actually exists as the writer states), then you can not separate lax from its culture. Furthermore, you should not lean on "substances" as a "cause". Lots of people are taking drugs right now. It is likely they aren't smashing someone's head. So, if it isn't the culture, then it isn't drugs, either. Drugs did this like spoons made Oprah fat.
It's weird how these parents drop their kids off here. There's the campus, and then there's a whole row of bars next door, so that you can numb yourself enough, as prescribed, to ignore the banality of your watered-down education, and live your life in as close accordance to your favorite television personalities as possible.
The proportions are completely speakable. The consequences of this, for most, are nill. People are fed fear propaganda their entire lives. Boys are fed machosim and violence, and girls are fed beautification. We are made to believe that we are separate from one another, and separate from the world.
You people are getting off on this. One spoiled brat whacks another. And then the outpouring of sensational comments regarding the deceased ensues. I wish people would speak like that of the living.
Um, I think you forgot the #1 High School Lacrosse program in the country, and its a public school in Syracuse, NY. - West Genesee. no tuition required. In upstate NY, its not all about the "rich kids" .maybe you should take a ride there sometime
College is nothing but a four year social indoctrination, with a side goal of being responsible enough to maintain a GPA. Very few twenty-two year olds can grasp "warning signs", especially with graduation, a chance for a national championship and the last summer as "kids" visible on the horizon.
The mere notion that the men's team did not pull out of the NCAA's proves that they hated the guy well before May 3rd.
Poorly written and ridiculous article. You come across sounding jealous of lacrosse players and their lifestyle. No sport can compell a man to be a stalker, psycho/abusive boyfriend and murderer.
Huguely seems to have been born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and that is the large reason he may feel entitled to anything - not that he plays lacrosse. Even if neither of them were on the lacrosse teams, their paths probably still would have crossed at UVA - based on their similar backgrounds and social circles.
It is a very sad story. I don't think Yeardley's family would appreciate people blaming lacrosse for her death.
@thorninmypride
"Very few twenty-two year olds can grasp ââ?¬Å?warning signs”, especially with graduation, a chance for a national championship and the last summer as ââ?¬Å?kids” visible on the horizon."
Fair enough . . . so where were the coaches?
Turning a blind eye or not bothering to know what's going on with the team, whose fault is that?
The most important contribution of the essay:
"UVA and the entire lacrosse world owes it to Yeardley to take a step back, and take an honest look at what happened. It’ll be gut-wrenching, but for UVA and college lacrosse, it’s time for a gut check."
A real gut check. That is what's missing.
Coach Starsia wants to "move forward." Casteen runs off for a photo op with the Guv. Team members and other students are keeping their mouths shut. There's something wrong at UVA and it needs a deep look at the root causes not the symptoms.
Simply "moving forward" without changing the paradigm and guess what folks . . . history has a way of repeating itself. Want another Yeardley on YOUR conscience?
@ponygirl
"What happened to Yeardley has nothing to do with lacrosse or being Southern (Maryland, George’s home state, is north of the Mason-Dixon line, after all)."
The Mason-Dixon line is the southern boundary of Pennsylvania and western boundary of Delaware. Maryland is south of it and west of it. Maryland is in the South.
Other sports teams at UVA do not spend three or four nights a week in a bar getting loaded. Most UVA coaches don't tolerate that behavior. So maybe it is about the lacrosse culture at UVA.
When Huguely attacked a fellow teammate in his bed, he should have been kicked off the team. Instead Starsia slapped his murderous wrist and ignored the aberrant behavior.
Don't ask (coaches), don't tell (coaches and players). A deadly combination at UVA.
@PONYGIRL: Uh, check your maps, please. Maryland is SOUTH of the Mason Dixon line.
Agree with Kate, not only are the stated and implied conclusions in this article silly (and naive), but the writing is poor. This article is not worth any additional comment.
@Mike...just read your 5:57 pm post about the differences between how lax is perceived in North vs. South states and then you offered anyone to step up...haven't seen any posts yet, but I think it would be beneficial if they did. My perception of all the posts is that people think that none of the other sports drink, party etc. Sorry, can't believe that. This whole scenerio was caused by a PERSON(s)...not a sport. There were people that didn't see the warning signs, coaches that made bad judgement calls, and a University that seems to cover up it's students bad behavior. Comon' people, stop blaming the sport and blame GH's behavior, environment, drinking problems, etc. This guy didn't get to where he is via Lax.
From a recent SI article:
"By that time the Facebook group In Memory of Yeardley Love had more than 50,000 members. In the wake of Love's death, the Virginia Lacrosse Alumni Network (VLAN), composed of more than 300 former men's players, invited UVA lacrosse alumnae to join their group. Then they raised $500,000 to fund the Yeardley Reynolds Love Endowed Scholarship, to be given annually to a member of the women's team. "Some good has to come of this," says Drew Fox, a player on the 1994 men's team and the VLAN leader. "It just has to."
Just more evidence of the insulated, self-absorbed world of this privileged lacrosse community. So the "good" that comes of this is a scholarship for a female lacrosse player on a Division I school? What about donating this money to help victims of domestic violence - or even better, funding resources for UVa to assist female students in similar situations? Shouldn't the goal be to try to prevent this from happening again? No - it's just to help ensure a top-10 Virginia lacrosse team. Sickening.
What I take from this article is not that "lacrosse culture" created the Huguely monster .... it's that it allowed the monster to flourish.
(Also, I'd like to replace the term "lacrosse culture" with "narcissistic entitled frat-boy/jock culture" because I think we all know that it exists across many different sports, and also outside of sports.)
Why did Huguely's bad behavior go unchecked for so long?
One, because he was protected by his elite athlete status (and almost certainly by his wealthy family).
Two, because society has come to expect and EXCUSE that behavior as typical of the entitled frat-boy/jock.
Now, why we as a society think this behavior is harmless, I don't know. These are the guys who destroy property, bully others, and sexually mistreat women, all in the name of brotherhood and the college experience. But the fact is that most of these guys, obnoxious as they are, don't kill people.
So Huguely, a dangerous man, slid by for years under the cover of an obnoxious one. No one recognized the warning signs, simply because they looked far too much like the behavior we've come to expect of his kind.
It's time to stop excusing the bad behavior. The jocks and frat boys need to man up; the colleges and universities need to take a stand; and the vast pool of potential victims needs to come together and learn how to protect themselves as best they can.
I am wondering why there isn't much coming out about the 2 of these people. No text messages released, the letter he had written to her wasn't released. Surely friends and classmates know more about how their relationship was. ...
@Marley-The text messages,et al. probably won't be released to the public in order to insure Huguely gets a fair trial. If he pleads out, the'll probably be released.
"Pretty much anyone that wasn’t one of them either didn’t exist, or existed solely as an object of ridicule."
This statement really shows the level of mass delusion that surly is not exclusive to the lacrosse world. I laughed until tears were streaming down my cheeks when I read this because none of these children/young adults have any life skills at this point other than chasing a ball with a stick; which is not really a life skill. And the funny part is that my boarder collie can play ball better than they can and she does not even need a stick; she also, to the best of my knowledge, does not ridicule anyone. I also agree with the statement above that lacrosse didn't create George, but the pettiness certainly nurtured him. So, your homework over the summer is to learn life skills from just about any dog, because obviously your peer group has nothing to teach you. And if possible, volunteer at an SPCA, scrub some dogs runs and cat cages to learn a bit of humility.
Bravo @ Restore the Republic.
These kids won't learn humility and will not regain their humanity until famine strikes. It would almost be worth going through it to watch them wriggle.
The more I think about it, the more I think that alcohol and possible drugs and lacrosse wansn't the only antagonist, here. Ever heard an American girl talk crap? These days most of them act like guys. And they talk smack like a guy, based solely on the fact that most guys won't get all ragey on them.
deleted by moderator
Sara Madison May 12th, 2010 | 10:05 am
What I take from this article is not that ââ?¬Å?lacrosse culture” created the Huguely monster ”Š. it’s that it allowed the monster to flourish.
(Also, I’d like to replace the term ââ?¬Å?lacrosse culture” with ââ?¬Å?narcissistic entitled frat-boy/jock culture” because I think we all know that it exists across many different sports, and also outside of sports.)
Come on, you don't know what you are saying. That is not the "lacrosse culture" everywhere. Many division 3 lacrosse programs don't even have Greeks! (and keep in mind top D3 programs are better than half the D1 programs and Salisbury State - a D3 school - is arguably the best lacrosse team in the country) Do some research please. If you are just saying "jocks" act entitled, abusive, belligerent in college well think what you want. I'd like to think overall, lacrosse players from public HS, and from NY, and even most "preppie" lacrosse players from the DC area, are actually better students/people than their fellow football/basketball/baseball student-athletes; they do more extracurricular work in their school as well as their community and go on to have productive careers in whichever field they choose. The author conveniently skewed his top 10 HS lacrosse programs to suit his argument...if he simply expanded the list to 100 you would clearly notice that 90% of the programs from NY are ALL PUBLIC SCHOOLS WITHOUT PRIVILEGE. I can't make this any clearer. When I was in HS in 1999 Ward Melville was the #1 ranked lacrosse program in The World. I'm serious. Even UVA stars, the Bratton twins, from Huntington public H, were the top team in NY after winning 62 straight games or something crazy like that.
^^^^ why would you even attempt to blame the victim????
HAHAAH restore public, I worked at a Dog Kennel/Groomer one summer during HS making like 5 bucks an hour cleaning sh(t pans. You would walk in at like 8 am and all the dogs are just going crazy! They are jumping around in their sh(t banging their heads on the cage roofs. I'm like, "life is going to suck for the next 4 hours!"
25 bucks was alot of money back then...now its one round of drinks lol
"I hope you realize how rigorous they are, and how many talented kids are enrolled. You don’t know what it’s like because you were never one of them."
I mean, that's a tough statement. Most private high school students are receiving an educational advantage based on their parents wealth. It is what is man. This country provides them every right to pay more for their children's educations, and thus protection from socializing with those less fortunate. Sure, some are "talented" like you say, and others may have gotten admittance by scholarship, but I've met many of them after going to a private college after public HS. They would try to argue they knew more about the world based on experiences in a "bubble," when in reality, their private HS particularly lacked any type of class or ethnic differences. I've seen them driving around my college campus with a BMW, disrespecting those not as affluent as them, meanwhile in class they are dissing America and corporate culture, hugging trees and spending daddy's money on cocaine/weed. Maybe they are just rebelling from their parents who think providing excess monies and luxuries equals parenting.
Refer to Franklin T's post at 6:35 pm. He said it best below:
This crime and pending trial is not really about lacrosse or college”Šit’s really more about people of privilege and power and their access to protection that most of us don’t or ever will have. Sadly, it doesn’t end with college. This protected class goes on to become the heads of AIG and Enron; the Dubyas and Cheneys. For every Bernie Madoff or Ken Skilling who got busted and is doing hard time, there are hundreds and hundreds of the elite class who rob society blind, take us into phony wars for corporate profits, ignore safety requirements in coal mines or off-shore oil rigs. And those of us down at the bottom pay, while we wait for our supposed ââ?¬Å?trickle-down.”
The system is rigged folks. And we’re the suckers. GWHv made the mistake of taking it one horrifying step too far. He’ll have to pay, as a sacrifice, so the remaining elite class can continue to skate.
This guy can't write. It's true. It's "flush with wealth", not "lush with wealth". The editor and writer are both goat ropers.
F--- prep students. You can't fend for yourselves. You're completely domesticated, gelded, and misdirected. Stop sucking on the pop culture nipple, you m!ndl3ss scuttlebutts. Rich kids vs. poor kids, I know on who I will place my money!
Take off all that padding, and wreck yourselves like rugby players.
Here's your pop culture zen moment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1nSU7mZUz0
true kiv, I was trying to be "nice" to "I mean," but you said it well. I can't lie I completely agree except for your shot on lax players. Rugby is a tough sport, but so is lacrosse. There is mutual respect here
When the "rigor" of the curriculum "I mean" speaks of includes getting jumped by "underprivileged" youth from your neighboring town walking home from a school event, in which your best friend lays in hospital bed for a few days come talk to me. When you see another "underprivileged" student knock on a classroom door, politely asking the teacher to speak to a student, and once the student steps outside he gets his head slammed on the wall, punched in the face until he is profusely bleeding and falls to the ground unconscious with almost a perfect rainbow of blood left stained on the wall come talk to me. When "underprivileged" kids breakout into fights every week in school, bring guns to homeroom and when one of them threatens to shoot up the graduation crowd inciting town officials to bring in extra state police come talk to me.
When private schools kids have to deal with anything like this let me know. Public school is more rigorous than private schools in so many non academic ways it's not even funny. When you can excel in this environment, well you just KNOW the deal.
This guy can’t write. It’s true. It’s ââ?¬Å?flush with wealth”, not ââ?¬Å?lush with wealth”. The editor and writer are both goat ropers.
***
Well, "flush with wealth" would be the cliche.
yeah Jan true...once you see a "psycho" dad in action, you know EXACTLY where the kids get it from. I asked my parents for years to come to one of my lacrosse games, and they finally showed up my last home game senior year of college lol. what a contrast!
You should be arrested for being a psycho dad. Just because you couldn't cut in it any particular sport doesn't give you a license to act like a total ahole, usually treating your child/other parents with total disrespect in the process
Mike, how can you blame parents for not wanting their kids to deal with the violence you seem to be claiming to have witnessed as a public school student? If I lived in Richmond or D.C. I would never send my kids to public schools. Do you think being terrified to go to school builds character somehow? If so, then in what way?
These postings are extremely distressing. @Mike - you don't know it all. No one does. Please stop acting like it. But your heart is in a good place and this murder clearly has affected a lot of us. As for the "lacrosse" generalization - everything can be generalized but does nothing to solve the problem. My private school had nice kids and jerks and sociopaths and gays - you name it. A guy "allegedly" killed his ex/present girlfriend with his bare hands. It happens everyday. Humans kill each other all the time for all kinds of reasons. The first road to solutions is to stop blaming anyone, anything, any culture. Humans are not a really "nice/empathetic/gentle" species. Period. The only thing that I believe is going to stop such horrible acts from occurring is humans evolving into something else entirely. We are a violent species. Just because every single one of us is not violent does not mean that we are not a violent species as a collective. Perhaps when we can all stop blaming each other and look at ourselves as part of a collective we could see and find some solutions. I really don't see that happening anytime soon. People need to understand that Virginia is also a death penalty state and I have a hunch that the State Attorney will seek same but who knows? As if that will "solve" anything either. Charlottesville is also a teeny tiny town and the gossip about this is going to start to fly muddling up what really happened in the process. Tragic in all senses of the word.
I'm very white and I weigh 145 soaking wet. I used to live in Harlem. If you get jumped by kids, it's because you're acting like you need it.
Distressed nailed it!
where's tim brown? might be into kiv here.
Many of your points have a good bit of truth and I'm not of the lacrosse culture in any way. I just wonder if you feel much the same about the cultural issues and effects on youth from hip-hop and the associations the NBA has..(?).
Fu, good question. Sorry for the really long reply, but its the best I can do.
I'm not seeming to claim anything. I'm simply explaining my experience as a witness on a Southern Long Island town and public school. Granted, the violence I speak of isn't at the same level or extent it would be in inner city public schools in just about any city, but it's rampant with gang violence everywhere nevertheless. Speaking to a father/mother of a child who has to make a choice for the best education for his/her child, of course I can't fault you for not sending him/her there (public HS), nor recommend you subject your child to that culture. However, keep in mind many parents don't have that choice. With that said, you have to be cognizant of the inequalities of the system. It's simply not fair, but it's a problem America should be dealing with, not you as a parent. Maybe if the wealthy/affluent couldn't just avoid the problem simply by sending their children away to private schools the government would be forced to address the problem.
There are two systems in this country that should be removed from privatization: education and healthcare. I'm speaking from a fairness standpoint, but since this country wasn't designed for equality as much as our constitution states otherwise, it will forever remain a problem. Likewise, we are too capitalistic as a society to understand that education shouldn't be available for purchase, and equal opportunity for all is a joke as long as it remains so.
You have to know both worlds well to even gain a decent perspective on the subject. When your HS has 4 advanced placement classes but others teach Latin in grade school there is divide here that can never be bridged; the best you can do is work harder at university to catch up, but since private school kids are as genetically intelligent as you are, it's basically impossible.
I think you answered your own question. Of course being put in that environment builds character. You acquire skill sets that cannot be taught in a classroom and can only be acquired by being subjected to a certain subculture. Terrified is an interesting word; perhaps if George the monster was terrified by some of those "underprivileged" youth in a different social setting on their terms and not sheltered in his private school bubble he would never have had the wherewithal to treat others with such disrespect and commit such an atrocious crime on his ex girlfriend. You could also argue it has nothing to do with his background, but if his psychological issues were the reason and he behaved in this manner before in the first place, he would have been beaten up badly, or even killed a long time ago rather than given a free pass time and time again. HE NEVER LEARNED. From what I've read his behavior would not have been tolerated in many public schools. It's actually unfathomable really. People use the cliche street smarts. They do exist. You learn how to deal with issues that aren't prevalent in private schools. These "underprivileged" youth i'm alluding to do not exist in private schools and would be expelled for such behavior, but they are public school problems that administrators are forced to deal with. They are members of your community and therefore you learn to live with them because they have a power you need to respect. Many of them don't respect life in any way and could easily take yours if you don't know how to deal with them. An interesting example happened in my neighboring town of Wyandanch a few years ago, a student from Half Hallow Hills East, a neighboring district of my school... he was a kid who attained a basketball scholarship and was murdered by gang members of a rival school.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=4171129
I'm not sure if they were jealous of his opportunity to go to college. Some say he refused to join their gang, but the press maintains it was a random fight and subsequent shooting. Who knows, of course his killer(s) was never found. Although my environment wasn't this bad growing up, even with the examples I gave previously in the last post, in a twisted sense I have a great deal of pride coming from this type of environment,...and these "skills" have given me as much of an advantage dealing with what life throws at you as any higher educational received at a private institution.
The best advice I can give you, with reflection of this monster George and Yeardley's tragedy is to do everything in your power as a parent to raise your child not to abuse the privilege you can bestow on him by sending him to a private high school. Make sure he/she is involved in the greater community WITH public school kids in the area so he can learn how the "lesser" half lives and be grateful of his status. Unless he can forever be protected like so many "elite" "prep" school kids are throughout their lives, given whatever they want by the disease of American nepotism than none of this matters. (refer to Frank's T post at 6:35 pm he said it best)
Thanks for listening
Mike -- you completely, 100%, misinterpreted my post.
The point I was trying to make is that it's not "lacrosse" culture that the problem. It's a culture that is not specific to ANY sport (but, unfortunately, thrives across many of them).
It's the culture of spoiled, narcissistic men who think that their status as athletes and/or scions of wealth entitles them to behave with total disregard for others.
Hope that clears things up. Because actually, I do know what I'm talking about.
Distressed, yes you're probably right. Of course I don't know it all. It's funny though, no matter where, which state, which country, no matter the venue I always end up with the same blank look form prep school kids and saying something along the lines of, "What do you want me to do, apologize for being wealthy?"
Private school education offers amazing educational advantages to kids who can afford to go there therefore we should ban it b/c it's unfair? From what I hear, Long Island has some of the best schools in the nation, reflecting the average income of its inhabitants & accompanying taxes - that's not fair & pretty much the same thing as private schools so maybe all the children of Long Island should get bussed somewhere with terrible schools so they're not getting any unfair advantage. Harrison Bergeron anyone?
The thing is, nobody is going to figure out "the answer" to this tragedy. It's not just private school privilege, it's not just lacrosse culture, it's not just bro's before ho's culture, it's not just bad parenting, it's not just GH is an evil bad seed who was going to kill somebody someday, it's not just UVa ignoring that student victims of domestic violence have very few options, it's not just Coaches & teammates going the see no hear no speak no evil route, it's not just UVa encouraging violence against women by slapping student offenders on the wrist in a misguided effort to protect it's image. It may be all of the above amongst many other factors we have no idea about b/c everything we know is based on a couple affidavits and rumors we've heard. I don't mind the many discussions that this has raised - I think many of them are important and long overdue. But my 2 cents is that you can't convincingly take any one potential cause and say, this is it, this is why GH murdered a gorgeous, beloved, and by all accounts extraordinary young woman.
Well Simon, perhaps you should walk around Copiague, Amityville, Freeport, Wyandach, Central Isip, Brentwood, Bellport, Riverhead and see how "un-affluent" parts of Long Island really are.
How about not banning private schools entirely, but dissolving them in order to strengthen the academic institutions called public schools to truly give EVERY AMERICAN STUDENT AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY? You have parents that are already paying for public school taxes and still discern that they "are not good enough" for their child. What does that tell you? Money is no barrier.
I love the author Harrison Berguron reference. Fantastic, I basically majored in dystopian and utopian thought under the political science umbrella so you just won't win this one. Sorry. Im obvious predisposed prior to my college experience in thinking this wasn't fair. Once I met many of these "prep" kids somer were great, others were basically useless without their parents. So yeah I have no problem putting handicaps on prep school kids. THAT IS WHAT I'M CALLING FOR RIGHT?
BTW, your entire premise is off, I'm asking for wealth not being used as a tool for an educational advantage, as opposed to giving those with greater genetic characteristics a physical or mental handicap. That is what Harrison wanted to do to make everyone equal. Instead, you can raise the expectations of society so that someone such as Michael Jordan or Bill Gates shouldn't be "compensated" for their extreme gifts, to the benefit of them and their families, instead they should "expected" to perform them as a part of society, i.e. as in Thomas More's Utopia.
The only thing that can be considered Harrison Bergeron's "handicaps," are publics schools as they exist in America today, because they basically function to the detriment of American "underprivileged" youth.
And Simona you're obviously pretty intelligent. Please keep in mind I'm strictly referring to "males" when I argue my points about public vs private HS. Women are just better people so i'll stop there. The Women at the Seven Sister school I attended (not hard to figure out now!) are all pretty much going on to do some good things, except Anne Hathaway lol.
Anyway, I think your list is more than adequate to discuss it.
My answer for why:
50% wealthy upbringing, entitlement and coddled home and schooling environment (which creates a system that allows the NUMEROUS breaking of laws and school policies left unpunished and unaddressed)
25% anger management/alcoholic and drug issues (he did kill her in an alcoholic rage)
25% a UVA environment (teachers, coaches, police, friends, teammates, etc) that failed to protect a pretty little girl who was obviously dealing with a ranging ex boyfriend who she couldn't keep at bay.
Anyway, signing off...this story just stings. When Yearldley was 14 she wrote:
"If I had to wish for three things in my life, they would be to go to the University of Virginia for college, have a happy and healthy family when I grow up, and to always keep in touch and stay close with my family," she wrote.
I don't believe, but I hope this kid burns in hell and gets the chair
Since when did dystopian and utopian thought qualify as a concentration. Wow. I guess what's richer than that is the idea that having a concentration in college automatically means you win an argument.
It's not officially a concentration but it's mostly what I studied. Part of your senior year seminar is submitting a work to The Utopian magazine and are partly graded on its publishable quality. You choose from American International Comparative and Theory. You mix and match, but I've read many novels (about 25 or so) in the field, including 100 or more short stories/essays. But yeah you're right, for assuming I'm the only one who concentrated in the area and some kind of expert. It's written on my resume if that counts for anything lol
It's all naught really, the world is the way it is. You can do your best to envision a better one and attempt steps to take it in the right direction based on your miniscule influence throughout life.
Re: some of the comments, not specifically the essay.
Long Island is one of the most segregated geographical areas in this country. The vast majority of towns are predominantly white. African Americans are concentrated in a few towns which not coincidentally have the lowest performing school districts in Nassau and Suffolk Counties. Some towns, like Amityville (yes the horror) are split in half, poor AA in the north and wealthier whites along the south shore (yes, that would be near the ocean).
The three private high schools that were mentioned upthread are not the only private high schools on LI. Perhaps you meant they were the only (worthwhile) lacrosse playing schools?
I attended SUNY Binghamton in the late 70s. That is a state university in NY (upstate). We had a lacrosse team. Six of the players lived in my dorm. They were drunken, druggy, misogynists who hurled abuse at women on a regular basis.
No Red, North Amityville is as bad as North Oakland. I've spent a year living next to North Oakland at Berkeley and Amityville is fewmtowns over from where I grew up... add in a California Sun and nice weather, a larger area, with more guns and they are basically identical. So are the 10 other S L towns that are rampant with gangs violence. White flight has already undergone from the time you were in school A good example is in 1970, Wyandach was almost all White, and is now 90% AA.
BTW, I think the initial argument was NY vs DC/BA and thanks to IRONY for an article stating what Maryalnd's Heach Coach believes:
(University of Virginia Lacrosse Player's Death Plays Out in Public)
"Cottle and others in the lacrosse community took issue with the depiction of collegiate lacrosse players all coming from a handful of elite prep schools.
"The first problem that I have is the stereotype that they're all private school kids," the Maryland coach said. "This is a sport where there is a wide range of private schools that participate and probably a high percentage of the private schools that participate are at the high end of the sport and that's probably why it's perceived the way it is."
Cottle noted that in some of the big hotbeds of the game, like Washington DC and Baltimore, the top teams are private schools but in areas like Long Island and upstate New York, the public school teams dominate."
Thanks Coach, exactly what I was trying to explain here
WOW -- and all this time I had been thinking LAX was an airport in California... I actually have known that for years, but it took almost that long to wade through this complete twaddle.
There are dumber microcultures than this one, not so many, yet there are -- but in most of them, the denizens are not well-heeled, nor do they look like Barbie and Ken.
See you in Port-Au-Prince.
Love back,
I am a little disturbed to see exactly how much venom is directed to those who have perceived to have money, or others who lived a slightly different life than your own. This is one wrongful death that is likely to be proven as a murder, at the hands of a young man with an apparent alcohol and anger problem. Alcoholism and anger as a package is spread pretty universally throughout all socioeconomic groups, and ultimately all the perpetrators lose, along with those who love them, and those they hurt.
Money is money. It comes and it goes depending upon the financial skills and stock market conditions of the present day. It does not guarantee happiness, healthy children, general health or love, or in this case that your child won't do something terrible to someone elses.
I find the article that Irony sited and many others VERY disturbing in that they still include the incident at Duke with the crime here in C'ville. All the players were acquitted (and I am not sure if this is the right word due to the nature of all things involved in the case, prosecutor and alledged victim and the outcome) of these crimes yet it's portrayed as if they were guilty in suttle ways. Or maybe they are "forgetting" to mention the true outcome of the Duke incident. Gives one a lot to consider about our "media machine".
"I am a little disturbed to see exactly how much venom is directed to those who have perceived to have money,"
This is simple. These people are angry because someone has something they do not. Life is not fair and most just do not get it or want to get it.
Discoduck
Yes, but this alone is disturbing. When we were all five years old, we noticed this, and it is the job of parents to let you know that whomever you are, and wherever you are, there will always be someone who appears, at that snapshot in time, to have more than you, or something you wish you had. It should not take long for us to realize that the wealthy family who has all the nice cars, also has a son dying in pain of cancer. Every life has benefits and sorrows, and we should be focused on the life and challenges we each were given, and not peripherals temporarily given to others. This is the true meaning of "Thou Shalt Not Covet".
I think this is a well written and circumspect article; however, I agree with the Ed Bs of the world in that it should be more of an indictment on elitism in general. Lacrosse has been a common denominator in some well-publicized and notorious event, yes, but it really boils down to a segment of our society that is delusional with respect to consequences of their actions which is tied-in to entitlement, wealth, detachment, and elitism. Lacrosse is coincidental.
Mike: White flight is not the cause of the segregation on Long Island, although it has contributed to it. Wyandanch's racial demographic began changing in the 1950s, not the 1970s.
The famous development of Levittown (the one on LI), built in 1947 for the returning WWII veterans had a restrictive covenant from the get-go, which permitted only caucasians to own homes there. Wikipedia reports the following demographics from 2006:
As of the U.S. Census Estimate of 2006, there are 53,067 people, 17,207 households, and 14,109 families residing in the community. The population density is 7,717.5 per square mile (2,978.1/km²). There are 17,410 housing units at an average density of 2,531.9/sq mi (977.0/km²). The racial makeup of the area is 88.6% White, 0.2% African American, 0.07% Native American, 8.7% Asian, and 5.7% of the population are Hispanic or Latino of any race.
Although other towns may not have had an official restrictive covenant, for all intents and purposes they operated the same way, and simply did not allow African Americans to buy houses.
@Restore the Republic Lacrosse is not what killed this poor girl, George Hugley IS! I am a single mom who lives in the DC Metro area and knows parents that have their childern at Landon and some of the other prep school, my son is not, I don't have the means to send him there, but wish I did. And if I did he would still play lacrosse and not end up as George Hugley did, why? Because my son has a sense of humility, knows respect for other individuals, controls his actions, and knows he is not entitled to everything in this world.
Someone needs to look at that the fact that he came from a family that swept things under the rug and that his father ran the family business was probably never home much and that his parents divorced. Also, at the fact that I'm sure this wasn't the first incident between the couple and people didn't get involoved. It takes strength and courage and support to get out of an abusive relationship, I know, because I did, I'm sure being in school and 3 hours away from her mother and sister, Love probably felt alone, she knew the right things to do, but what she really needed was distance from George. Having grown up in Charlottesville, getting distance is almost impossible and even harder when you are talking about just UVA.
Red I'm not sure what your point is. Are you trying to say that during the post WW2 Era and Civil Rights Era Long Islanders were racist? Of course, many still are. Do you want to even attempt to compare Long Island racial tolerance to the greater South in which Jim Crow laws were still maintained? It's not even a comparison. A couple of my buddies moved down South and they were like, "Damn, AA are so nice and polite down here it's unbelievable." What does that tell you about suppression and keeping "order" and those "in line?"
BTW, Levitown is not even a good example, in that town you are officially called a Leviclown if you grew up there, check out West "White" Islip (one of the 10 HS lax programs the authors lists actually). I think there were a couple of AA students in the entire school. But overall Southern Long Island is very diverse. There are a dozen or so towns that Caucasians aren't 50% of the population. I've already named them. I don't see too many SUBURBAN areas in the DC/Baltimore areas that reflect that demographic AND are good at lacrosse, even if any exist. I think that is my point. I quoted above what Maryland's head coach was saying:
"Cottle noted that in some of the big hotbeds of the game, like Washington DC and Baltimore, the top teams are private schools but in areas like Long Island and upstate New York, the public school teams dominate.”
There is no way around it, a division one head coach lacrosse coach noted the difference in lacrosse cultures between North and South and ACTUALLY DIFFERENTIATED BASED ON PRIVATE AND PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS!!! What the hell does that tell you?
"what would you call a bar in Northern Virginia (Arlington perhaps) in which it reeks like Virginia tobacco smoked cigars, with cowboy hat and cowboy boot wearing individuals making fun of ââ?¬Å?Those Dam Yanks” in a Southern drawl? Not Southern? Then you tell me”Š"
Mike--are you serious? I have lived in Arlington for 7 years now and spent more than my fair share of time in just about every bar in this area. Cowboy boots?? Cigar smoke?? Cowboy hats?? "Those dam Yanks". You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I laughed for about 10 seconds until I realized you might be serious.
I'm glad I read that because now I know better than to waste my time, as others have, replying to any of your ridiculous assertions. Try to find better ways to spend your time...you only live once. Good luck in your endeavors.
RIP Ms. Love
Disco, you eventually learn to stop complaining about the hand your dealt, and learn to play it the best way can.
I don't think its "anger" you are alluding to, it's more a combination of being indignant and disappointed with people who were given much more than us, and still completely fail to live a semblance of a decent life.
Honestly, if you come from an affluent family and received a privatized education you should be grateful this world has given you so much, only because you were just born into a certain family. Im kind of a feminist which is tough to be as a guy, because its amazing how many more young women than men, like Yeardley, who come from affluent backgrounds and do things such as volunteer at a Soup Kitchen sand utilize their education in an eventual philanthropic career. I know of dozens of females from my college that are doing non profit law or going on to be doctors and I know maybe 1 male who is. The rest are on quest to match the bank accounts of their fathers
Ok JJ, I believe it was Mannassas, that's why I said perhaps Arlington (which is where my friend is living) because I forgot I stayed at the Holiday Inn in Manassas for his wedding. The bar I was speaking of was in 45 minutes W/NW of Arlington. It was right down the street from the Holiday Inn . After the "Damn Yankees" comment my friend said something to him. Do you even want to attempt to refute that what I just described could possibly happen there? Didn't think so.
I know exactly what I'm talking about, and obviously you won't, until you stop thinking so subjectively. There is nothing wrong with being who you are. There is a cultural divide in this country from North to South and always will be. It is what it is. But it wasn't too long ago 2000 "Yankees" were annihilated at Bull Run. We remember that...
Not trying to open up a can of worms here. It's in the past. My major point spent on this blog was to differentiate between Northern and Southern lacrosse cultures and their respective idiosyncrasies ...and I believe I have..Maryland's head lacrosse coach said exactly what I said, VERBATIM
Good luck to you too sir
And Shannon you said, "because my son has a sense of humility, knows respect for other individuals, controls his actions, and knows he is not entitled to everything in this world." Where did you send him to school? You are implying you couldn't afford private school and it seems like you made the right choice then because of the way he turned out.
Mike - my son is 8 and attending public school in Montgomery County. He plays U11 lacrosse through the local sports association, we do have some of the Landon, Greogetown Prep and Good Counsel boys on are teams and you can tell a difference in the kids attitudes. Those kids handed everything and not knowing what it takes to earn things is the biggest difference I see with all the kids my son is around. I also have to say that his wrestling coach and grandmother are a big help in teaching him to be responsible for himself, his actions and to respect others. My son aspires to go to either The Naval Academy or UVA, he told me when he wad five that those people that go to school at UVA are so lucky because the school is so beautiful. I'm doing everything in my power to support is aspirations and make them reality, while keeping him grounded and knowing it takes hard work all around.
@Mike - Nice that you kept this conversation going.....When it is read entirely so many perspectives come out. @DiscoDuck.... so sad that you have such a narrow point of view. Some of us grew up very wealthy and shunned our own families because of the entitlement crap attitude that was so pervasive....My favorite "Do you know who my family is?" - My answer always - "Unless it is Gandhi-like or something similar - I don't care. YOU are not 'your' family. And if that is who 'you' are - you all should be ashamed of yourselves."
@Mike - it looks like we as a species are just going to continue to kill and hurt and maim each other. But, it looks like you care and I for one am glad to see that some of the species want to see some real evolution and change. And that would be YOU. Thanks for that. You are a good part of the debate. At the end of the day, we are all human. If I were the aliens, I would not come anywhere near "us". "We" are like a pack of crocodiles in the Everglades.....scary stuff.
@Shannon - I have always wanted to drop the "entitlement" kids down in Haiti with no phone or money for two weeks. Nice lesson learned. Most are truly spoiled brats and it is very sad. Your son raised well will be able to more than he realizes and the school won't matter - the only thing that does is him.
Why don't you teach your kid to do something that actually matters? Tossing a ball into a net, using a stick with a tinier net on it doesn't acheive ANYTHING.
Bankers have hijacked $28 trillion, there are 12-30 million illegals in the country (entering the US without permission IS A CRIME), fluoride and vaccines are damaging people's brains, 6,000 of our troops have comitted suicide.... and everyone is STILL celebrity, sport, and entertainment obsessed. What's it going to TAKE?
How far would we have gotten if the founding forefathers had such an aversion to real issues?
One of the consequences of not participating in politics, is being governed by your inferiors.
Kiv- I teach my child to be a worthy and well rounded individual. Those are the main factors, what he choses to do, be it politics, the Marines, an engineer, a professional athelete is solely up to him. I support whatever decisions he will make in life as long as he is a contributing member of society. At 8 he already know that his actions have consequences, taking sports away is not the answer. He does well in school and is rewarded by being allowed to play.
I doubt from your comment that you have children, so please refrain from commenting on patenting styles till you have walked in my shoes.
Shannon good stuff. Your son is so young he's still going to figure out things on his own. Don't let him quit the great game though if you can help it. I did't even pick up a stick until I was 15, but the reason why Long Island is such a hotbed, as is MD/Balt is that part of your requirement as a Varsity player is to work with kids in the 5-13 age group because our coaches wanted them to have better stick skills than we had when they got to HS! It worked out well, our school produced John Glynn who was a 3 time All American midfielder on Cornell's team last season when they lost to Syracuse in the Final, and the HS athlete of the year in a county of 3 million people.
I wanted to recommend West Point as a destinstion if your son has serious aspirations to be a military officer. I know the Naval Academy is right in your backyard but Army is it's brother. I was very close to attending the academy there, had my local representative's nomination, a HS alum 2 years above me as a reference, a former teammate of mine who was the longpole middie @ Army (Mike Piro) at the time. I was so very close, and ultimately after talking with my family and thinking seriously about my future I decided a different path...and unfortunately I wasn't immune to the damaging aspect of what that life entails - my lacrosse captain @ college my freshman year, after the Sept 11 attack, he enlisted and earned the Green Beret and died in Afghanistan June 2007 (Robb Rolfing RIP).
It's always nice to hear that another public school lacrosse player is on the right path...good job and good luck. I remember when I sat down and had a few drinks with former Duke's lacrosse coach Mike Pressler, he made it pretty clear that area codes 631 and 516 was his favorite area to recruit because those players had an "edge" that could not be taught in advanced classes only. That is why I'm such an advocate of public school bred lacrosse players. They just wouldn't behave in the same manner as George Monster Hugely. It's impossible, they don't grow up like him and woudl be quickly ostracized from the sport of lacrosse, as we understand it.
Distressed I think we see eye to eye on a lot of things. However, you wouldn't have to bring them all the way down to Haiti, you can teach them the same lesson by dropping them at any of the really depressed areas throughout the country where the other "lesser" half lives. LOL It would be great they should make a reality show out of it LOL!
Kiv..."Why don’t you teach your kid to do something that actually matters? Tossing a ball into a net, using a stick with a tinier net on it doesn’t acheive ANYTHING."
Well, like learning to swim, or playing baseball, or playing chess, or acting in a play, or playing tennis, or running track, or being on the debate team, or playing ANY sport or participating in ANY extracurricular activity doesn't accomplish ANYTHING and doesn't "actually matter". What a narrow attitude. Sports, and most other extracurricular activities DO matter. They involve our children in group activities, teach them team concepts and team work, allow them to compete in wonderful experiences, promote physical activity (in the case of sports), and add to an overall wonderful educational experience.
What school age activities would you promote that do "matter" would you instead promote?
Mike - thanks, we are stuck with lacrosse, hockey (he's been on skates since he was 18 months old, I was a nationally competative figure skater) and wrestling. We have a great community sports organization that produced Paul Rabil, the all American from Hopkins that has gone on to play professional lacrosse for Boston, so were lucky.
He's hooked on Naval Academy because of wrestling and wanting to be a Marine. He's got lots of time to change his mind, but he's said the Marine thing since he was 2 and after going to Joint Forces Open House at Andrew's Airforce base, said instead of a pilot he wants to build the planes or their engines. He's giftedqgen it comes to math and science, so all I can do is support and encourage him. He's a great kid with an old soul and 250% boy. I would like to try to see someone raise an active boy with no sports, blaming sports is not the answer. More parent involovement with your children, where it counts and more coaches being involoved instead of looking at the wins, is all it takes. I hope my friends with children at Landon and part of the lacrosse program there put some pressure on the coaching staff.
Compelling words from former Cavaliers.
http://insidelacrosse.com/news/2010/05/13/virginia-lacrosse-alums-speak-...
@Mike, you certainly drink the lacrosse kool aid my friend, but you cant really distance yourself from the "bad" aspects of lacrosse- not to mention it sounds elitist. Like Al Gore w/ Gloabal Warming yet he his house uses XXXXX kilowats of elctricity. Actually, the people in MD/NOVA/balt are generally children of hard working parents who have come to DC area for jobs, quality of living and to provide their kids education and opportunity. While some folks families have been here for years, DC/NOVA is a very transient area...and most of the parents of these households are educated and good parents who don't raise their kids with this type of attitude. Either way, what Hugely did and what Duke (didn't do) but was accused of only gives the sport a black eye.
Oh and C'mon, those Long Island towns are full of Wall Street dad's and country clubs as well- let's not try and pretend NY laxer's are "average joe". If the majority of laxer's went to a Michigan, MidWest, Texas, or California public university/school (were Lax was not an organized sport) they'd be a run of the mill students (not tall enough to play hoops, not big enough to play football). And would probably get lsot in the crowd