UVA brass: Honchos defend school after lacrosse killing
President John Casteen, Allen Groves, Patricia Lampkin, and Craig Littlepage.PHOTO BY HAWES SPENCER
UVA President John Casteen deflected blame from the university by suggesting that a Rockbridge County court should have acted on the allegation that murder suspect George Wesley Huguely had earlier threatened to kill a Lexington police officer, but at the same press conference, Athletic Director Craig Littlepage admitted that he has yet to find out whether lacrosse coaches, including the head lacrosse coach knew about their player's prior arrest.
"Nothing was reported to me," said Littlepage, which prompted a New York Times reporter to press for clarification on whether that meant the coaches knew. "I can't speak to what they had knowledge of," Littlepage conceded.
It was the largest press conference in Charlottesville since (and including) the infamous 1998 baby-switching case, and it took place in a ground floor room in the Harrison Institute and Small Special Collections Library with most of the nation's major news operations represented.
There was an allegation by one reporter that a prior altercation took place between the suspect and the victim, 22-year-old Yeardley Love, at Delta Kappa Epsilon, the "Deke" house, approximately two weeks before the fatal altercation. However, the university officials present professed no such knowledge, and the house's active member roster doesn't show Huguely's name; and a noon Wednesday email to the chapter president was not returned by posting time.
With what-did-they-know-and-when-did-they-know-it as the question of the moment, this reporter emailed the head lacrosse coach, Dom Starsia, prior to the press conference to see if he knew of Huguely's prior arrest, but he did not immediately reply.
President Casteen said he checks the UVA Police reports every morning but said that other than the occasional "courtesy" notifications, there's no system to alert him to student arrests in other jurisdictions.
The arresting officer in that November 2008 Lexington incident, R.L. Moss, has released a statement with some stunning revelations including alleging that, despite her police training, she was "no match" for the large and surly lacrosse player.
As was first reported in the Cavalier Daily, this arrest and subsequent pair of convictions involved being drunk in public and resisting arrest. And as the Washington Post first reported, the officer claims that Huguely made death threats.
"I'll kill all you bitches," Moss says Huguely said during his arrest.
But it didn't end there. Officer Moss reports that Huguely, when he appeared in court, didn't recall that a female cop arrested him and, more surprisingly, didn't remember getting Tased.
Not remembering an officer's gender might be something to slip through the blur of a bad night. but to forget getting hit by a painful and incapacitating dose of thousands of volts of electricity is a feat reserved for the most intoxicated or most forgetful of human beings.
A request for comment put to Huguely's lawyer was not immediately returned.
190 comments
Like I have said on another related story...the lacrosse coaches must know something. There are young coaches on the team. You know the players confided in them. I'm sure several players knew of his violent past and his arrest. I'm sure they mentioned it to the coaching staff and probably had a good laugh over it. I wish Coach Starsia would come forward and comment on this whole situation. It's just making his team look worse and he needs to remedy the situation. Maybe he has been advised to keep his mouth shut.
I guess the saying, "bro's before hoe's" applies.
TVOTC, you can always look at a UVa catalog. The courses are all incredible. Whatever was in those great courses did not motivate the accused: they were out for one thing, revenge. And fine - so several other UVa lacrosse members drank - drinking is legal at age 21. But did they also kill someone?
No.
Did he learn about how to do that in a course, or would a course have made him think differently?
No.
Was the accused a ticking time bomb?
I would argue Yes. Reading about his arrests (2007 Palm Beach for alcohol possession, 2008 Virginia), the public fights with the victim in 2010 (broken up by other lacrosse players from another school), his jumping off his dad'd boat at the end of 2008 (leading to another report by the police), and the tricks he used to pull on fellow players and coaches in high school leads me to think that only prison could stop them.
No amount of schooling could do it. Perhaps some treatment from a psychiatrist would control him, but only if he complied with treatment.
I'd argue that nothing but a bigger person would have intimidated him - probably someone bigger, taller and stronger that would have blocked the door - or several people like that. This guy was a ticking time bomb, and not a small one at that (6-1, 209 pounds? No wonder he was not a starter on UVa's team!)
I am sure if someone spoke with members of the lacrosse team, that they will tell everything they know. Not everyone trusted the accused. The victim's friends likely knew something - she was part of a sorority and encourages camraderie, and her own lacrosse team will also know something about this relationship.
Nothing to do with the classes and what's in the coursework. It's pretty deep stuff, but I highly doubt that any of it made it from the paper to their thinking - none of it. This guy had contradictions written all over him. It's not about class or anything like that, it's about someone getting away with something over and over and over.
How much different is this case than any that involves the sharing of information? UVa police not sharing with local police - how different is that from the FBI not sharing with CIA, even when required by law? That's why bad people get away with horrible things. They should be pinned down - instead nothing touches them.
REMEMBER FOLKS REALITY!!!....NOT BANTER AND SPECULATION OR SPIN DOCTORING...REALITY. THE PUBLIC AFFAIRS AND PROTOCOL OFFICES ARE FIGURING OUT HOW TO DO DAMAGE CONTROL AND NOT FIX THE ISSUE. BOTTOM LINE IS THAT C'VILLE AINT THE GLASS TIERA ITS PAINTED TO BE...GET REALISTIC AND MOVE TO THE 21ST CENTURY! THE NATIONAL MEDIA HAS TO KNOW ABOUT THIS.
Hoping that Casteen and Lampkin will read this.....
Back in 2004 I alerted you of the rape of my daughter. You chose to do nothing. This man raped another young coed 6 months later. he was found guilty by a jury of peers and not sanctioned.
Now you defend UVA saying you didn't know. Well, even when you do know, you do nothing!
The Dept of Education has found UVA to be in violation of the Clery Act. When questioned by the reporter from the Center for Public Integrity, VP Lampkin denied knowledge of the DOE investigation. You can hold a press conference and snooker the media with your pretense of solidarity and caring, but for those of us who have had our lives altered by your ignorance and refusal to act, we know better than to fall for it.
MJ just because it will get deleted does not mean it doesn't need to be said.
You again illustrate that you have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of dogs or pack mentality. Good luck trying to beat a dog into submission, let me know how that works for you.
From Washington Post: "The fatal altercation between Huguely and Love early Monday in her Charlottesville apartment may not have been their first violent encounter. Two months before Love's death, two current and one former University of North Carolina lacrosse players intervened to separate Huguely from Love at a party on the U-Va. campus in Charlottesville, according to two sources with knowledge of the incident. The UNC players were in Charlottesville visiting with friends.
A reporter asked U-Va. President John T. Casteen III about the incident at a news conference Wednesday. Casteen said he knew nothing about it. Huguely's attorney did not immediately reply to a phone message and e-mail seeking comment.
Casteen also said that school officials were unaware of Huguely's prior arrest and that officials, coaches and trainers had no indication of violence on his part. But Casteen acknowledged that "there are a number of gaps in this system that concern me." He said the school would begin to screen students against public records before each semester. "
dog whisperer, I am not back pedallimg at all. He needs to be broken like a dominant dog.. if you are a dog owner and your own dog growls at you you need to take him down.. prefereably as a puppy. My example of beating an attact dog was just an expansion of that. Watch any dog training video on how to train an aggressive dog on youtube. I don't think a "lacrossewhisperer" would have done the trick.
The point is that we as a society ALLOW losers like this to grow and dominate when they should be broken. They are the real bullies of the world and get that way because no one gives them a comuppance.
Men who are given the gift of size and strength and a decent temperment have the same obligation to society to help protect us as a person born with an inate sense of compassion should step in to council.
The problem is we stil want the counceling but if a man steps up to the plate to shut jerks like this down before he kills somebody people like MJ and whiperer make it an unoble act.
She is dead because no one stood up to this guy when he no doubtedly was acting like this when he was twelve.
Casteen is covering his butt. No more no less. He has done NOTHING in his entire career at UVA to prove otherwise. Good riddance.
Forever and ever Amen @ CAN WE GET A MOD FOR THE REPORTER.
Thank you, Kevin and Jake. Maybe a criminal history check at the beginning of the 2009-2010 would have revealed Mr. Huguely's 2008 Lexington run-in with the police. Maybe not. Maybe there does need to be a reporting system from state-to-state.
I'm not sure that President Casteen was deflecting, but with regard to knowing that Huguely was involved in an incident in Lexington, how do any of us know what we don't know. If there was no report made to UVA/Charlottesville/Albemarle police officials, how would anyone know of incidents. It's not reasonable to expect that UVA would query every police jurisdiction around the state or nation to determine if that previous night a UVA student was involved in police activity. Nevertheless, Huguley seems like a very troubled and disturbed young man. How terribly sad that a lovely young woman lost her life at his hands.
It's funny how you can ask a cop 6 questions in a row in a case, and the only answer you can get is, "I don't recall!" A Hook reporter witnessed this last week.
But 18 months later this cop named Moss remembers everything.
quote: " It’s not reasonable to expect that UVA would query every police jurisdiction around the state or nation to determine if that previous night a UVA student was involved in police activity.
Why isn't it reasonable? The university should be checking the criminal record of every student they admit. If they don't, I would be surprised to learn this.
I can't believe the University didn't know anything about his arrest for resisting arrest, public swearing/intoxication or his 6 months of supervised probation. Wonder where he had to report in for his probation?
Chris-sure lots of college kids drink, and some may get caught and be let off with a warning because they are remorseful and polite- how many students do you know that have to be tasered because they are nasty and obnoxious and resist arrest? This Huguely obviously had severe anger issues.
I'm sure the whole team was talking about this incident and of course Starsia knew about this, there is no way he didn't.
Let me get this straight - underage college lacrosse players drink? Shocking.
Digusted=Disgusted.
That's what I get for trying to correct someone's spelling...
Any woman who sees all of this and sticks around guys like this is asking for it. THATS RIGHT.....ASKING FOR IT!!!!
It is sad that we have lost the days when "buddies" would stop their "buddies" from beating up women.
Guys like this need to be taught lessons in language they understand. they need to be broken like a dominant dog.
When I was about twelve my father witnessed a neighbor pushing his wife around and went over to intervene. The guy was bigger than him and pushed him away. My Dad then went inside and called two other neighbors and they beat the crap out of the guy and told him that if he ever touched her again they would come back and kill him. They did this because the albemarle sherriff just "talked" to him numerous times but did nothing else. Whatever happened between those two after that I don't know, but the sherrif never had to come back and the hollering stopped.
This guys "friends" are as culpable as he is for allowing the behavior.
I hope he gets raped in prison.
and Robert E lee and lewis and clark would have most likely beat the crap out of this guy at the party where he wash pushing the girl around.
The world needs strong men to defend the weak against wild animals including human ones. We need to honor them and differentiate them from the bad people out there. (which includes women)
No, I do not believe UVA is to blame for the murder.
I do believe the UVA administration has been turning a blind eye to campus crime, specifically violence against women, for the past 20+ years. By creating a culture that makes it impossible for a woman to get help when she reports a rape, they have empowered the sickos to keep violating women, and now murder happens.
A protective order is only as good as the paper it is printed on. I've known 2 women who had restraining orders and were murdered by their ex-husbands.
GASBAG -- What you are describing would violate federal law. Criminal records can only be run by law enforcement for law enforcement purposes, with only a few exceptions (one is that with the appropriate waiver of privacy executed, a law enforcement officer may run a criminal record for a prospective employer).a The records are to be run one at a time, not in batch mode. The identity of the requester is registered. The reports are given only to law enforcement officers.
In short, they can't do it. Now, if you want to change federal law to permit it, that's different.
But when you consider that, it gets back to the question of whether colleges and universities are to serve in loco parentis. Colleges and universities have long fought against any attempt to give them those responsibilities, because of the liability issues. And then there is the reality -- colleges and universities don't control their students, who are, after all, adults.
FIGHT THE REVOLUTION...OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A PUBLIC OUTCRY TO OUST THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION...PROBLEM IS THAT UNLESS THERE IS NATIONAL PRESSURE, IT WONT HAPPEN. LOCALLY, uva HAS A LOCK ON THIS COMMUNITY...WHAT THEY SAY ....GOES. IS THIS RIGHT? IS THIS FAIR? IS THIS CORRECT? NO, BUT UNTIL PEOPLE DECIDE TO VOICE THEIR OPINION AND RAISE THE ISSUE BEYOND THE CURRENT AUDIENCE, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. WHAT ABOUT A 60 MIN OR 20/20 PRODUCER GETTING INVOLVED? ANOTHER MEDIA OUTLET TO REALLY USE THE 1ST AMENDMENT AGAINST THE UNIVERSITY AND CLAIM FREE SPEECH FOR ALL...TO INCLUDE YEARDLEY LOVE!
The UVA boosters and employees ought to step aside for quite a long time until the police get to the bottom of this murder. You sound like the employees of Goldman-Sachs defending yourselves at Congressional hearings.
@Lynn: "Maybe there does need to be a reporting system from state-to-state."
What state-to-state? The 2008 incident was in Lexington Virginia. An hour south west of Charlottesville.
@Gasbag: Checking them once is one thing. Checking them again every week is another.
"Why isn’t it reasonable? The university should be checking the criminal record of every student they admit. If they don’t, I would be surprised to learn this. "
The arrest occurred after the student had been admitted.
If Yeardley was trusting in Christ as her savior she is celebrating in heaven right now with every sin forgiven. We need to keep this in mind as I’m sure there will be some ââ?¬Å?blame the victim” stories to come.
God’s grace is big enough to forgive George but he needs to sincerely repent and accept it. He still has to pay the earthly consequences.
God’s grace is big enough for forgive George’s enablers. They need to sincerely accept the role they played, repent and ask for forgiveness also.
I do think the teams should play BUT”Šanyone (UVa employee, male or female students or athletes) who knew George had violated rules that warranted dismissal from the team and expulsion from the University and took no action or actively kept his secrets should not participate in the final games. You can’t expect the coaches to know everything, that’s the role of team captains. What a statement if UVa took the field with mostly freshman and sophomores stating that certain players acknowledge their inaction played a role in the situation getting out of hand or that they too are guilty of honor violations and are now ready to come clean in memory and in honor of Yeardley.
Microchip implants? Gas, I often don't agree with you, but it looks like someone has hijacked your user name in an over the top effort to make you look ridiculous and that doesn't sit well with me.
The revelation that Huguely was involved in an altercation at the Deke frat house is not surprising. This is a frat guy to the extreme. Some commentators have posted that he was in fact a member of the Deke frat (It wouldn't be that difficult to remove his information from their website). His personality is consistent with the type of students the UVa chapter recruits: wealthy prep school athletes, etc. I think there is a justifiable sense of alarm on the part of reasonable people that there may be a cover up. These concerns do not emerge from any fringe group of nutty conspiracy theorists. A lot of people knew about this kid but his brazen, belligerent behavior is all too consistent of the frat type at UVa to have raised any concerns... Very troubling.
This post isn't journalism, it's muckraking. It's awful. The headline is bad grabbar and insulting to the administration. Bringing up the size of the press conference and relating it to an incident where the University was in an embarrassing position? Painting a picture of possible (but unfounded) evidence that Huguely should have had a long and easy to follow record of violence? If it's so easy to find why are you just posting possible suppositions? Quoting, again, the officer in the Lexington incident in what is ostensibly an article about the press conference? Do we really need a reminder that Huguely might be violent?
And lastly: "Not remembering an officer’s gender might be something to slip through the blur of a bad night. but to forget getting hit by a painful and incapacitating dose of thousands of volts of electricity is a feat reserved for the most intoxicated or most forgetful of human beings." Since when are you a medical expert? Since when are you an expert on the effects of alcohol intoxication and the memory loss that follows it? Or of the memorable nature of being tased?
I am not a friend of Huguely's and would never defend him. From court documents we have an admission that he committed a violent act and then attempted to conceal something. We know that he was arrested in the past and resisted arrest. We know that he had a relationship with Love. We know that a young woman who was loved by many people in this community was murdered. These are the things that we know; and journalism is about reporting those things, and discovering what is unknown. What you're doing is elicit a reaction of bias against the University and against Huguely. What you're doing is trying to cope with your own feelings about this event? I understand. As a husband I am tortured by the notion that hate could displace love so thoroughly. As a future father, I am frightened at the prospect that my own daughter could someday die at the hands of a spouse or boyfriend; or that my son could commit such a heinous act.
But you're job is too important to do it badly. And the story isn't whether UVA should have known that Huguely would do this. The story isn't how Huguely resisted arrest in Lexington. The story is how a community lost a member and mourns that loss. The story is how a relationship turned to violence, and how regrettably common is that turn (http://hamptonroads.com/2010/05/murdersuicide-suspect-was-exco-carrier-s...).
I hope you understand, I mean you no ill will or harm. I just want this community's loss to be treated with the utmost respect, particularly in the press. And this piece does nothing but taint this tragedy with rumor and speculation.
Well said. As Casteen indicated, Lexington/Rockingham county had the ability to act on these supposed allegations from the female officer. They chose not to. Why exactly does the press expect UVa to be aware of "facts" never entered into evidence?
And to classify the female officer's claims as a "revelation" rather than an "allegation" is irresponsible. Unfortunately, the Hook isn't the only media outlet acting irresponsibly.
How about the 2007 arrest in Palm Beach, as a minor? From the Palm Beach Post newspaper's Jose Lambiet (who describes the accused inaccurately [I don't think the accused was a star - he was not even a star-ter, and at 6-1, 209 pounds I cant imagine he was a very fast midfielder] but must have some found some source in the Palm Beach police who gave a few details of the court record):
"The 22-year-old All American lacrosse star from the University of Virginia spend plenty time in his formative years in South Florida, even getting arrested here in 2007 for drinking alcohol as a minor."
http://www.page2live.com/2010/05/05/u-of-virginia-killer-has-south-flori...
The more I read about him the more he looks like classic sociopath/psychopath - the veneer of normalcy but underneath, a monster. The extreme risk taking, polish, manipulation of others. It's bad news.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jxE8H_NFgNdQBmh6ArH6rs...
Come on people. There is no way UVa could know about his arrest in Lexington. I guarantee 250+ kids are on campus right now who have been charged with something to that degree and the University will never know about it. The kid was a kook, a sociopath, anger problems to the extreme, etc. He was probably more than drunk that night, who knows. The point is, it is a black eye for the school but it isn't their fault. They cant control kids, they cant even vet them that well. Do you know how many kids in athletics have aggression issues....probably a good 50 percent. And to think they should know about an altercation in front of Deke two weeks ago?!?! Come on. There are altercations as I type this. Sadly, others knew about this fatal relationship and decided to just let it go. Perhaps they figured school was almost over and the two were graduating, life was going to take its course.
YL didn't need to go. Justice will never be served because it can't bring her back. Her name and her story will ever be a part of Virginia history....Much Love
@ look both ways - "according to the Washington Post,2 of the 8 were found not guilty. That leaves the stats at 6 out of 41 lacrosse players committing alcohol-related crimes, or 15%. I would guess that number is right in line with the UVa student population, which is a problem. If you are going to blame the lacrosse team for this, The University has to be blamed as well."
You really believe that in any given year 3000/20000 of the students walking around grounds have been arrested for some drinking related crime? Seriously?
@the Dude -- you refer to "whackjobs" who are "still defending the lacrosse team." I was not aware that the lacrosse team had been charged with any kind of a crime in regards to Yeardley Love's murder. What exactly do the 40+ separate individuals (aside from GH) on that team have to be defended against?
You also point to the WP's claim that 8 out of the 41 lax players currently at UVa have been charged with alcohol-related offenses at some point during their time at UVa (which could range from four years to one year, depending on which student you're talking about), suggesting that this information somehow devastates the case of those whackjobs still "defending" the lax team (against what, I'm still not sure). Can you explain how those 8 alcohol-related offenses put the entire lax team beyond some kind of pale? In other words, the fact that 8 out of 41 lax players had alcohol-related offenses means...what, exactly?
Also, can you put this information in context against the percentage of alcohol-related offenses racked up by members of other all-male subcommunities on Grounds? Is it significantly more? I don't know, and the WP story didn't say, but you seem pretty confident that it's the final nail in the lax team's coffin, so you must know how it looks in context against the numbers for other teams, or for fraternity males, or UVa males in general, etc.
not so sure about that statement, jillpan, but it would be interesting to find out.
I think it speaks to the issue of accountability in general. This perp certainly knew he was arrested and he certainly knew that UVA knew nothing about it. If there was more a stringent level of accountability for criminal behavior built into UVA's system, he may have been made aware of the repercussions for criminal behavior prior to finding himself locked up facing a murder one charge with a murdered ex-girlfriend.
As President Casteen said yesterday, this kind of happenstance challenges every system at the University. There will be revisions to the policies regarding reporting of criminal behavior as well as the reporting of domestic violence and/or threatening behavior as a result of this horrific tragedy. Those changes will not be because the system worked and everything was done to protect Miss Love, but because whatever system is in place failed miserably to do so.
OK, Hawes went a little Gonzo at the end, as he is occasionally wont to do. The Hook's sophisticated readers appreciate that.
@Susan,
That is what protective and emergency protective orders are for. I'm not sure I'd EVER want a University to be shouldering the burden of protection in an incident such as that. It's the court's job.
Do you honestly believe that University is to blame for this murder?
Okay, Decent Guy. Are you saying Yeardley was asking for it? Really?
It would appear that she had tried to break off her relationship with him several times, hence the on-again, off-again part of their relationship. She told him that she was finished. At least, that's my guess. And what does he do? He beats the crap out of her and leaves her for dead. How in the world was that "asking for it"?
What are a girl's options? If she doesn't like the guy, and tells him it's over, but he doesn't want it to be over..... is she still asking for it? How exactly was she supposed to keep him from kicking down her door and slamming her head into the wall? He was practically twice her weight and probably a good bit taller than she. Was she still asking for it?
Maybe she should have contacted the authorities earlier - maybe she should have gotten a restraining order. But she didn't, so she was asking for it? How is this tragedy in any way her fault? How can anyone blame the victim for this?
About the only thing you said that I agree with is that his buddies should have schooled him in the way to treat women correctly - but wait, his friends did nothing. And she's the one who was asking for it?
You should be ashamed for even suggesting such an atrocity.
Who is to say she stuck with him? It is possible she dumped him for good after this incident where he supposedly pushed her in public. From the evidence, it looks like she did not let him into her bedroom-the door was kicked in.
No one asks for this-no one.
Further: the dominant dog is alert AND relaxed. That's why they're dominant.
UVA has noble pursuits and values, but these principles are resting upon a foundation of Jeffersonian double-speak that ultimately excuses all manner of violence and abuse, especially male violence against women. We somehow overlook the unseemly side of Jefferson and his partners in westward colonialism and southern slavery because they were able to articulate higher principles that helped our country to form. This kind of deference to our founding fathers is also what informs us to excuse the actions of our current brothers when they abuse the rights of others, because we somehow hope and believe that they are guided by better angels. Yet in hindsight, looking upon their legacy, we see their monuments to war and violence: In Charlottesville at the eastern entrance to the University we find a monument to General George Rogers Clark, "Conqueror of the Northwest." This monument displays Clark attacking a family of Indians. Further down University Ave. we find a sculpture of the rifle-carrying Lewis and Clark towering above Sacajawea, looking west towards U.Va.. Around the corner from there we find a larger than life bronze of General Robert E. Lee which is placed at the center of Lee Park. These violent male heroes of Virginia remain standing, floating amidst the Cavaliers. I have to wonder what they are teaching in Charlottesville at the University of Virginia about male privilege and its impact upon the rights of others not considered equal to white men by Jefferson and his peers. I hope that male privilege to abuse the rights of others is acknowledged as part and parcel of the legacy of the University of Virginia and that we must somehow withdraw from the untenable moral position that extols violence against others as justified, something a bit difficult to do so long as Virginia takes so much pride in its violent legacy.
Oldhoo72, very simply put, a microchip planted in my hand with my full history would have prevented a red headed stepchild cop shoppe rookie from starting the vicious cycle of misconduct and corruption I had to endure for over a decade.
But we don't really need to make this thread about me again, do we?
And I'm sorry for not responding sooner, I was busy making a Dominion power worker extremely happy. I told him to come into my yard and feel free to cut down the tree down that is approaching their power lines. He said most people chase them away with shotguns! :)
Well, I left a comment - it had nothing offensive in it. It was just critical of the "blame game" - so I am left to wonder why it was censored.
@Decent: Please cite a source for your "60% of women are victims of rape in Mexico" statistic.
Simona,
Well said, I am sure more like this will be expressed.
Of course the teammates and coach knew about this punk. The Lexington incident occurred at another FRAT house and I'm sure Huguely was with his frat buddies and teammates at the time.
Many newspapers are now reporting that Huguely also had 'alcohol related incidents' at his summer house in FL before the Lexington incident. Apparently he jumped off a boat after a heated discussion with his father. Dude was out of control.
http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/lacrosse-slaying--runin-with-law050610
Another can of worms, and I am opening it.....
Lucy, this is actually a pretty good argument for everybody having a microchip implanted in their hand. This microchip would contain everything about a person... criminal history, driving record, medical records, blood type, etc... Ten years ago anybody wanting to place a microchip in my hand would be doing so over my dead body. But I see us, as a nation coping with out of control crime, moving closer to this with each passing day.
I would even suggest GPS tracking in this microchip if possible. But my wife would know where I was at all times! :)
Decent guy...your comments are probably going to be deleted. They are not accurate and...not decent.
Restore the republic...
I would be just as happy if they banged his head against the wall a few times gave him a black eye and let him die.
"ruel and unusual" should only kick in if it EXCEEDS what you did as a criminal.
from another article: "Both Casteen and Athletic Director Craig Littlepage said neither school officials or Huguely's coaches know of his 2008 arrest in Lexington on public intoxication and resisting arrest charges."
CL first said no one at uva knew of the lexington arrest, and then later he said that he had no personal knowledge of the lexington arrest.
If the men's lax coaches did know of this lexington incident then they are in deep trouble.
When I applied for a job at UVa a criminal background check was run on me? Why? To determine if I would be a danger to those I work with and others at the university. Why should the same not apply to students? Because they pay? One could argue that employees have certain access that students don't but students also have the ability to wreak havoc to others in the community. This incident and the mass shooting at Virginia Tech are testimony to that.
When I was completing the process of applying for a green card I had to provide a criminal background check at my own expense for every state I had lived in. I had to submit this to immigration.
I don't see why students can't supply their own criminal background checks along with other forms as part of the application process. If that standard is good enough for immigration why not for the university? And just because someone has a criminal charge doesn't mean they need to be rejected because there is a big range of criminal offences. There could be criteria and people trained to decide what is worthy of rejection and what is not based on someone's potential to cause harm to others. And if the university instituted this check and decided to be stringent in their criteria, then it teaches kids that their actions have consequences, that even money cannot reverse.
That addresses the problem on an institutional level. On a community level, we need to think more about looking out for each other. If we know something is amiss we should act. I don't buy the "It's none of my business" line. As far as I am concerned, if I hear it or see it, it is my business. Young people need to be taught to wake up and be responsible.
I am not the real Observer? Hmmm..I guess the person on the other forum called Observer took on the name before I did, so that makes them the real Observer. That's fine, I'm happy to be the "not the real Observer". I should have chosen a more obscure screen name.
Thank you, Annoyed, that is exactly what I was going to write. As a Lexington native, let me tell you the cops over there are used to dealing with drunk and disorderly privileged college kids at W&L. George Hughley must have been way over-the-top to have the cop Taser him, but I'm not surprised the charges were mild. Town-gown relationships are important in such a small town (and I'm sure the officer didn't know he was from UVA and not W&L at the time of the arrest).
Now, here's the thing: Do you think, once back at UVA, his teammates didn't talk about his getting arrested? Do you think the coaches wouldn't at least have overheard this? The head coach is being fairly evasive about who knew what.
That UVA wants to shift blame to the arresting office in Lexington is beyond absurd. What is it with our "not my responsibility" culture? It disgusts me. This kid sounds like he has a reputation as a mean drunk who blacks out. Dangerous. Too bad everybody looks the other way when a student like that is also a talented athlete.
Mostly I am crushed for Yeardley Love's family. What a horrible, horrible thing.
There is no way the coach could not have known about the Lexington incident or about Huguely's other behavior problems. No way. Other team members certainly knew, and word would have gotten out; UVA and UVA athletics make up a small community, and it's hard to keep secrets. It apparently was common knowledge that Huguely was an abusive little punk, and I have heard that team members had complained about him to the coach. Moreover, look how easily all the papers have been able to gather the information about him--just scratch the surface, and there are many damning incidents about the guy. For example, some visiting players from UNC had to intervene when Huguely went after Love at a party a couple of months ago, according to news reports. The kid was bad news.
The coach and Littlepage chose to look the other way--as did the kid's family. The adults around this kid who did nothing to intervene when he showed these disturbing tendencies have blood on their hands.
As for the other team members' alcohol-related offenses, it seems as though the coach is not enforcing his own policy, which allows team members to drink only once a week. Frankly, who cares if the kids are drinking as long as they aren't committing other crimes while doing it? It's hardly a shock to find that college kids drink. I'm sure many of them are better behaved than some other kids because they have more to lose.
Anyone else think the Lexingotn cop is full of crap? How did he threaten to "kill everyone" and just walk away with a hundred dollar fine? Answer: he didn't and she is lying. She like having the New York Times talk to her.
@ oldhoo72
I think GSOE was suggesting what he believes to be the strategy by which the AntiChrist will coax the World into bearing a "mark" on their right hand or forehead signifying allegeance to him in order to fullfill prophecy.
Here's UVa's organizational chart:
http://www.virginia.edu/orgchart/
Under Casteen, there's an executive vice president for operations (Sandridge), an executive vice president for academics (some medical dude), and a senior vice president for development and public affairs. Click on that last section and there are 3 or 4 development divisions and the public affairs division.
@chris2059: according to the Washington Post,2 of the 8 were found not guilty. That leaves the stats at 6 out of 41 lacrosse players committing alcohol-related crimes, or 15%. I would guess that number is right in line with the UVa student population, which is a problem. If you are going to blame the lacrosse team for this, The University has to be blamed as well.
From a different perspective. When I see of major incident as this, my first research as it were, is to find out if that person was a drinker of alchohol. "Roomate called police that she may have had alchohol poisoning", and one of the first photos of her to hit the internet shows Yeardly with other students holding cups, and it could have been a diet coke, but the mention of poisoning tends me to believe she was not a tea totaler. Where am I going on this. As a Puritan, I learned early on to abstain from booze, tobacco, recreation drugs and use of them condemed us to eternal punishment. So, as I said at the outset, my mind is and was first thing, where is her soul?. I am not being judgemental, but as John Casteen said of the whole incident, "This has been in my mind day and night". As I age, 83, I am more and more prone to my own life and more keenly aware of others, because we can not return. Eternity is a long time. My wife and I have always wished even when my Children Attended, that UVA would have been a Dry School. I know I will get a lot of retalitory coments, but I have gotten it off of our chests.
UVa is definitely not perfect, but I think holding them responsible for the murder for not checking criminal records or not kicking someone off the lacrosse team for a drinking/drunk in public is a bit reactionary. I think it's also reactionary to blame the Lacrosse team or the coaches for basically not being psychic. In the wake of tragedy such is this, it's natural to try to blame something we can actually affect - in this case UVa or the Lax Coaches.
My questions, in regards to UVa's role in this, which I don't think will be answered for weeks or even months, are more along the lines of did they know if he'd beaten her before, was the victim actively trying to get a restraining order and UVa was unhelpful, did they know and choose to ignore previous incidents of domestic abuse on his part against other women, was there evidence from random drug testing of cocaine or steroid use and it was ignored?
People should be aware that when you send your kids off to college, a conflict of interest might arise from the administration if anything bad happens to your child, b/c they have incentive to conceal what happened to protect the schools image.
Come on folks, this isn't hard to figure out. Run a criminal history check on every student at the beginning of each year. Better yet, run a criminal history check twice a year. With the technology available nowadays, and the cooperation of the UVA Police Department, it only takes a few seconds per student.
@Restore the Republic - As far as Yeardley Love is concerned, at what point should she have sought protection for herself and alerted the authorities? Please note that I put zero blame on the victim, I am only asking a question. And do victims feel they can seek help without triggering the very violence they seek to avoid?
Being a victim of this same type of violence (mine ended with me moving three hours away and not telling him where I was) and not near as intense as this situation, I can tell you that it was probably very hard for her to get anyone to really listen if she did seek help and even harder for her to admit that she couldn't handle it on her own.
can we get...
what should the hook do when the largest press conference since 1998 takes place? Ignore those facts? Not report the questions posed? Not report the unfolding story from lexington?
Should reporters just stop now and wait however many months or years for the trial?
Yes, there is rumor and speculation. Eventually the truth will come out. But as facts unfold, the media definitely should report them.
This is a huge black eye for UVA. It should be. That doesn't mean UVA is to blame, but this guy was at the top of the food chain over there and is apparently a violent sociopath. How those two facts could coincide is part of what the community and the University should sort out.
Why isn’t it reasonable? The university should be checking the criminal record of every student they admit. If they don’t, I would be surprised to learn this.
***
Do you really expect this? Among other things, most of their applicants are barely 18, if that, so they're not going to have adult criminal records that you can check. And applications require recommendations from the likes of guidance counselors, so I can't imagine many hard-core felons getting in. And are you suggesting that people with criminal backgrounds should be barred from higher education?
How about the 2007 arrest in Palm Beach, as a minor?
***
He wasn't a minor, he just wasn't old enough to legally drink.
Lets face it folks, it is yet another example of how UVA and Charlottesville "sweep things under the table" they were more worried about the lacross team then the situation at hand. The Prez will start to deflect blame to shield the institution. If folks only knew what really happens in C'ville. Gang warfare from Central America, lack of modernization, a Nuclear Reactor torn down and cancer rates on the rise...come on folks get with it. This is the 21st century. Just because a dust mite from Jefferson's estate lives on a plot of land does not make it historical...give me a break. Until someone reports to the national media how the city and county really do business, it wont matter. That is reality my friends!
S Jones: No I don't post on blink. I suppose Observer is not an uncommon screen name.
UVA shouldn't run a criminal background check on every student. They should, however, run a criminal background check on every NCAA athlete. That would be very do-able.
"That UVA wants to shift blame to the arresting office in Lexington is beyond absurd. What is it with our ââ?¬Å?not my responsibility” culture? It disgusts me. "
I agree, GH's friends were with him when he was arrested in Lexingtonn and should have reported this to the coach. Who knows, they may have and even if they did not, I'm sure the coach caught wind of this arrest.
I'm sure Casteen encouraged Starsia to continue with the Tourney....classless, I agree
Starsia's decided murder schmurder, the game must go on:
http://www2.dailyprogress.com/cdp/news/local/crime/article/u.va._lacross...
Real lost opportunity to show some class.
MJ May 5th, 2010 | 10:28 pm
Here is a Q and A with a New Yorker journalist and a sociopath/psychopath expert - see if the accused matches these descriptions.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/ask/2008/11/questions-for-seabrook...
Here is also a link to take a look at re: psychopath test.
http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html
ââ?¬Å?The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:
glib and superficial charm
grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
need for stimulation
pathological lying
cunning and manipulativeness
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
callousness and lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity
early behavior problems
lack of realistic long-term goals
impulsivity
irresponsibility
failure to accept responsibility for own actions
many short-term marital relationships
juvenile delinquency
revocation of conditional release
criminal versatility”
-------------------------------
Sorry MJ. is this for George or UVA officials?
Observer2
Actually I would prefer a sign in and a real name attached to it for integrity purposes . I do enjoy some of the monikers , hoolariouse is my fave here at the hook .
Many people are mistaken you for another poster who uses the same screen name . No offense meant at all .
Now I see some good ideas to make students safer like criminal background checks . I feel the issue is deeper than that . We have to start being proactive , not an overnight fix but we need to teach our children how to respect each other and our young men how to TALK and express their feelings . This clown here has been a ticking time bomb for years it seems . Just from the smug expression from his father my opinion is the apple doesn't fall far from the tree , I get the feeling this hugley kid learned how to talk with his hands from his father . I use father very loosely here because a real father teaches their boys that Women are not punching bags .
We need to be proactive and stop the kneejerk reactions to domestic violence .
Dakota
As far as people questioning why this murder is reported more than others. I have a few thoughts on that. One is that love UVa or hate it, UVa is at the heart of the community here. When someone is brutally murdered at UVa, of course everyone is concerned because we/they are all part of the same community. Secondly, what makes big news are events that are unexpected and contradictory in some way. The perception that society has is that white, affluent and educated people don't kill each other. When that expectation is violated it is naturally newsworthy because it is considered out of the ordinary.
And as one person honestly admitted, he likes beautiful rich, white girls. In our society many people look up to this as an ideal. In this case, the victim had many wonderful qualities. Why should people not be upset and care about it? Of course we care when something beautiful is erased from our world.
I think that you overestimate Casteen's interest in intercollegiate athletics.
Everyone should read this article. This statement grabbed my attention:
"Eight players have been charged with alcohol-related offenses while playing for Coach Starsia, a player's committed suicide, and a player's allegedly killed someone. If we ignore the connections between those three events, and similar problems at other schools, we run the risk of letting Yeardley Love die in vain. Her murder was a senseless tragedy of unspeakable proportions, the sort of thing you simply can't explain or understand."
The writer, a lax player from a competing school of Landan's also seems to be preparing the reader for the likely possibility that Huguely will test positive for cocaine or meth -- and for that matter, he believes quite a few others on the team, if they were to be tested, would also test positive. I hope the authorities take this writer seriously and go ahead and test the whole team and shut the whole operation down.
I'm ashamed of this university and would love nothing more than to unleash some SEC football players on these sick, American Psycho obsessed, athletically amateurish and mentally stunted punks....
Has anyone seen or heard any comments yet from Dom Starsia on any of this? If so, could you post them and the sources. Thanks.
As a former young person myself, I am well aware that people get drunk and make ridiculous threats without ever intending to follow through with them. The Lexington cop was probably used to dealing with drunks telling her they would kill her when she arrested them. One arrest for public intoxication and resisting arrest does not imply that down the road a person is going to murder someone. I see no reason why the cop would have felt it necessary to alert UVa if that was not a standard practice for all arrests.
Seriously, after going to one Foxfield Race, yes, I can believe it was possible to charge them, but doubtful that they have been caught.
Everyone drinks underage in college, just for that many to get caught?? They must be the worst at getting away with it, or the police must just be after them...
Actually, did Hugely's murder arrest count towards the 8 arrests. If so that would put them over 20 percent. I know someone mentioned earlier that only six got convicted, but we all know that is the result of the cop not showing for court and other factors. But, I guess if Hugely gets aquitted by the typical C-ville bleeding heart jury, that arrest won't count against the program either...so they should be good to go for another championship run.
UVA President John Casteen deflected blame from the university
John Casteen = teflon man
------------------------------
ââ?¬Å?Nothing was reported to me,” said Littlepage, which prompted a New York Times reporter to press for clarification on whether that meant the coaches knew. ââ?¬Å?I can’t speak to what they had knowledge of,” Littlepage conceded.
Littlepage = Don't Ask, Don't Tell
------------------------------
There was an allegation by one reporter that a prior altercation took place between the suspect and the victim, 22-year-old Yeardley Love, at Delta Kappa Epsilon, the ââ?¬Å?Deke” house, approximately two weeks before the fatal altercation. However, the university officials present professed no such knowledge,
University Officials = Ignorance is Bliss
-------------------------------------
Bottom line folks....you get what you pay for....or do you????
How many UVA contributors care what actually goes on under their own noses???
How about the parents of those UVA students...Did you really think MORGAN HARRINGTON's murder didn't affect YOUR CHILD she was a VA TECH student?
MORGAN WAS AT UVA AT A UVA OWNED STADIUM....
----------------------------
UVA = Pontious Pilate = washes their own hands from the guilt and blood.
---------------------
Turns page: Welcome Freshman class of 2014!
What would UVA do with the arrest info? 19% of the Lacrosse team has arrest records and still play. Sadly, I'm sure this is representative of college sports across the country.
When I said 19% of Lacrosse team had been arrested, I was referring to the WP article.
the Washington Post is now reporting ââ?¬Å?Eight of the 41 players on the roster of the University of Virginia men’s lacrosse team, including accused murderer George Huguely, have been charged with alcohol-related offenses during their careers at the school, according to court records.”
Oh boy, here we go again!
Rihanna wasn't pretty, white and rich.
She received more media coverage than this case ever will.
The link to the article is http://www.sbnation.com/2010/5/6/1459030/george-huguely-yeardley-love-uv...
"Lucy, this is actually a pretty good argument for everybody having a microchip implanted in their hand. This microchip would contain everything about a person”Š criminal history, driving record, medical records, blood type, etc”Š Ten years ago anybody wanting to place a microchip in my hand would be doing so over my dead body. But I see us, as a nation coping with out of control crime, moving closer to this with each passing day.
I would even suggest GPS tracking in this microchip if possible."
GSOE - most of the posts I read with your name attached tell us about corrupt or incompetent police and how their buddies cover for them. Yet you would trust them with that much data about you, including where you are at any time??
Ok everyone, For the handful of whackjobs still defending the lacrosse team, the Washington Post is now reporting "Eight of the 41 players on the roster of the University of Virginia men's lacrosse team, including accused murderer George Huguely, have been charged with alcohol-related offenses during their careers at the school, according to court records."
I am curious how UVa did not know about the arrest in Lexington, too. Also, it appears that this young man may have had a drinking problem. What were his parents doing? Surely they were paying the legal bills and knew something was up with this kid.
Chances are that some students on the lacrosse knew that Huguely was an out of control monster. I'm sure some of them witnessed his drunken antics in Lexington and I also believe Huguely's coaches had to have known about this incident.
cvllelaw, employers request criminal history and driving records on applicants all the time. The only thing that is required is the applicants permission.
Even I can request my own criminal history through the Virginia State Police for a small fee (used to be $15), with no "law enforcement purpose" whatsoever associated with my request.
If nothing else, make each and every student provide their criminal history as a condition of enrollment each year.
Every day in this country dozens (if not hundreds) of women are beaten and many of them killed by men. Why is it that only when they are pretty, white and rich that the media seems to care ?
@Dave because everyone loves pretty, rich, white women. I know I do.
WOW!!! Hawes really opened up a can of worms on this one! Such hot debate on whether UVA and lax team members have accountability in this....so for what it's worth...
IMHO...the individual has accountabilty for his actions from day one. If the coach knew of his past history and his personality and did nothing, then he should "take it on the chin". If the administration knew of the above and did nothing, then they should "take it on the chin". If the other lax team members knew of the above and did nothing or worse, ignored by the admin, then they have to live with themselves for not pursuing what was directly in front of them. But did THEY have the maturity to understand WHAT they were seeing? Just asking this question as food for thought because when I was 21-22 I really never thought about the consequences and long term impact of things and I was FAR from a priviledged/silver spoon individual. Aren't we glad that we grow up and WISE up?
Now secondly: IF the above mentioned would come clean about IF they knew (and I say this specutively because I can't say one way or the other) and "took it on the chin" due to their obvious oversights and turning a blind eye to past incidents...we might all gain a great deal of respect for them.
Unfortunately, the poicy changes will come too late for Miss Love and all the others that have been overlooked. In a world where we are driven to be PROACTIVE, where is UVa in that thought train? Just asking...
@Gasbag you are ridiculous if you think that being required to provide a background check on condition of enrollment to a public school will slide. Besides, there goes half of the football team...
As for the 8 players arrested on the Lax team, I don't find it unreasonable for a student to be reprimanded for an alcohol-related violation in COLLEGE.
But the DUIs that occurred, and surely resisting arrest should have demanded big consequences on the part of the school (and there is no way the coach/trainers/teammates did not know of it.)
But the fact that any member of the lax team has been charged with DUI and continues to play makes me sick. So, by the grace of God, they didn't happen to mow someone over with their car. And because they didn't, because they got their 4Runner home safe, somehow it's excusable behavior? It's amazing no one else has been killed at the expense of the AD's leniency. Oh but yes, they're #1 in the country...
@CVILLE IS IN A BUBBLE: Of course the University has a stronghold within the community. The community EXISTS almost entirely because of the University. MOVE AWAY if you don't like living in a University town.
@lucy...As for the 8 players arrested on the Lax team, I don’t find it unreasonable for a student to be reprimanded for an alcohol-related violation in COLLEGE. - Careful of your words there, this sounds like you are saying "hey, it's okay to drink while you're in college, we'll overlook it"...these young people are supposed to be examples of what the future looks like, not excused for four years of their life...so if they ARE atheletes, I don't see where their behavior on/off campus and the playing field should not be scrutinized. They will be scrutinized later in life by employers for just such behavior...teach them the way they should go now and they will follow for life.
Opps! Appologies Lucy!! I misread your post!!! Here is me, bowing and begging forgiveness!!
Clearly, you wouldn't recognize "class" if it bit you on the... head.
@Disguested... Did you get rejected by UVA or something? There's an awful lot of bitterness in those ramblings.
Digusted by Disguested May 6th, 2010 | 12:06 pm
@Disguested”Š Did you get rejected by UVA or something? There’s an awful lot of bitterness in those ramblings.
------------------
No, just empathetic to any family whose child was injured, raped, murdered and justice is not done.
Or they're belligerent when drunk.
Just some food for thought...has anyone noticed how quickly his "elite" society abandon him after he was arrested? AND UVa and Casteen are just covering their rumps...look at the VA Tech "disaster" a couple of years ago...didn't a settlement just get ordered for victim's families (I could be wrong about this)?
"decent guy" sounds like a bitter guy. His moniker "decent guy" suggests that he sees himself as a good guy and his first line
"Any woman who sees all of this and sticks around guys like this" expresses bitterness at those women who don't go out with "decent guy"s.
So his expression that she's "asking for it" is really him saying, "girls like this deserve to die because they won't go out with guys like me".
Sad, really...
Also many reports detail dominant "types" stepping in and "teaching a lesson": the police in Lexington, the police in Palm Beach, the lacrosse players from the University of North Carolina, and no doubt (and not yet reported, but should be speculated) one of the players on the UVa team took it upon themself to take with the accused. Certainly some were concerned enough to voice that to the victim, who certainly made efforts to separate herself from the "insecure dog". That's where the problem is: the "dominant" forces that should have stepped in "were not involved appropriately". The police could have been brought in at the first signs of domestic violence; maybe the victim's own sorority sisters, who likely advocated the break up (smart) may not have advocated the next step of "reporting" the accused before he did anything further. Sure it would not have involved an arrest (prior to a crime) but it would have put his name on their list as someone to keep tabs on. So who knew what - and what did they do. That's essential and something that John Casteen asked students to report in the future - to aim for collective security. I do believe that this was not just a failure of institutions, but a failure of people to report issues to the right authorities (a failure of friends/family/teammates to not only voice concerns but to voice them to the people that could do something).
I do wonder how it is that the accused could be withdrawn so quickly from the University. How is that possible?
Sorry Decent, I just don't agree whatsoever. Dominant dogs become powerful for more than force - often it's presence, it's what they do to intervene, how they intervene, not that they beat the pulp out of someone. In Mexico it's not "wimpy men" - it's a culture of impunity where laws are not enforced or are even designed to protect men! So in some parts of Mexico, what one would see is what you describe - where people do the "dominant" thing and take justice into their own hands. In other parts of Mexico, people fight to change the laws so that domestic violence is recognized as violence. I would think everyone wants that to happen.
and the dog is a metaphor I wouldn't beat a dog ... unless it was attacking someone, than I would beat it as hard as nessasary. (because I am intelligent enough to know that that particular dog has a problem it needs to be stopped.)
Of course your idea of jumping on top of your prius and calling 911 makes much more sense... it isn't like a rabid dog would be able to actually kill a person in the half hour it would take for the cops to show up and shoot him...
I know that if this clown had been pummeled and told to back off this girl might just be alive.
The judicial system let this guy go..not the cop...
MJ... how do you think the dominant dog BECAME the dominant dog??
how do you think he handles a challenger?
The only reason this guy was allowed to become the dominant dog is because society has frowned upon any kind of old fashioned way of keeping animals in check.
In mexico 60% of women are victims of rape... while the wimpy men let it happen. They are still uncivilized. We let crap like this happen and expect the wimpy judges to give guys like this a "time out".
Well this proves that it doesn't work and all the wishing won't make it so.
Fathers and brothers and friends need to step up to our brothers and tell them enough is enough and if they want to punch a woman they need to get through us to do it.
Don't mistake my opinons for anger. I am not angry I am a realist.
How bad does it have to get before we once again show respect for a man that will step up and get involved?
"I agree, GH’s friends were with him when he was arrested in Lexingtonn and should have reported this to the coach."
Do we know if anyone was with him during the incident in Lexington? The police report reads as if he was alone at the time of arrest, and they asked him if there was someone who could take him home. It's possible that he was by himself, got sent to the pokey to dry out, drove back to school the next day and told no one.
I guess you've never had a dominant dog before if you thinking beating it will break it over making it angrier.
The Dog Whisperer is completely right.
Don't try and back-peddle, Decent. Your metaphor had nothing to do with beating a dog during an attack. You were referring to how dogs are dominant in a pack.
And no one said anything about Prius's or 911, so your pretentious little ramblings are meaningless.
The bottom line remains the same: You have no idea what you're talking about. End of story. Goodnight.
Here's another way to deter: publicly involved others. Here's a speech from Casteen. Such an awful tragedy.
http://www.virginia.edu/president/spch/10/casteenvigil050510.html
So how to stop a "deranged" dog? For one, prisons do that. They put up huge walls around (hopefully) the most dangerous people in a society (doesn't always happen that way, but for the most part that's the purpose). For another, institutions and culture. The pieces were certainly in place to "deter" the accused: he wasn't the only "big" player on the lacrosse team, and who knows what things he did to preserve his "status" on the team?
How does a senior, who other players "look up to", get put in "check" by the other teammates? For one, the younger members of the team probably aren't likely to deter the senior. On a team of 44 players, 12 are seniors, with four of them about as big and strong as the accused. So what was the accused' place among the seniors on the team? We know he was not captain. We also know that, on a talented team, he wasn't a starter but also played all games. So that means he's an "improtant player off the bench" - one of the better players off the bench who is subbed in to give the stars some rest. Within the seniors, was he an outcast? Was he a leader? Or was he someone they tolerated and looked forward to never seeing again?
There's just not enough information. These players are plenty big and strong - and we as the public have no idea what they as players did to mitigate/keep the accused in "check." For all we know, they might have spoken with him and deterred him. But, left to his own devices (and he certainly was on the night of the killing) he decided to do something outside the context of the team.
So the "team" mechanism that would have blocked him, couldn't - they weren't with him. An unlocked door then removed another barrier - as maybe one of the roommates didnt lock the door (or he had a spare key somehow). So all you have then is a brute of a person and one last obstacle to break down and there you have it, all obstacles removed.
Isn't the point being made this it is domestic violence and murder, which in some sense is viewed as more chilling than other types of murder?
"Your assailant was not a UVA student and that’s why he was sent to prison."
That's *WHY* he was sent to prison, Susan? BECAUSE he was not a UVA student? Not because he committed the crime OK described?
Sorry. You might just be the Cindy Sheehan of this issue. Do you give any credit to UVA for the fact that it's one of only a handful of schools in this nation with a SANE nurse? And there have been numerous policy proposals stating that SANE nurses are one of the leading ways schools can reduce the sexual assault problem?
Sean, the tape was gone this morning around 11:15. There was the NBC 29 car parked there. Henry Graff was preparing notes for most likely his noon segment. I can debunk that one aspect of your post. I would not even try to debunk the rest of it. Of course, if I work at UVA so you'll probably accuse me of lying through my teeth in order to save the U's reputation. (And yes, that sarcasm.)
Jake, why would Huguely's BAC and/or other intoxicants therein be witheld? For what purpose? It comes out in so many other cases a day later.. Why is this one different?
The Pantera shirt found on 15th. street, and the sighting Harrington on the west range of the lawn are NOT two details that police kept anyone from reporting. Media sources decided to cover those details very late - or not at all - on their very own. I was the one lambasting the Cavalier Daily for not covering the find of the shirt months ago. I turned out to be right that it WAS news after all. Evidence is news in most places.
Not here !
Goodgrief, the tape was up around 9 pm last night.
I was the one lambasting the Cavalier Daily for not covering the find of the shirt months ago.
***
Wait, so they actually waited until it was confirmed that the shirt was actually Harrington's?
Wow, the Cavalier Daily actually did something right for a change! Oh, and you would have a better case against media types if you actually learned how to write.
Guys,
Any and all details, sightings, and evidence in a missing person's investigation should be treated very differently by the police and local media. Anything and everything substantial should be out and about in hopes of jogging a memory or catching a lucky lead to save a young woman's life if possible. Black Pantera shirts don't exactly grow on trees, and that ancient band is not exactly huge at UVA these days. And yes, I was right abou it being news after all. So was the Hook. And an eyewitness sighting anywhere else in town other than on UVA grounds would have been front page news the next day.
I would think that would be common sense.
But not here !
UVA made the press rounds today, trying to deflect blame. They say if only they'd known this kid had a police record ... and we all shake our heads yes. And then the Governor summons Casteen to his office and they talk about a swift reaction - make police records available to the school. Any of us who are snookered by this pretense of caring are part of the problem, not the solution. Even Ms Kaplan went on air this am and talked about how they educate students for the signs of partner violence. Do you think GH was listening? your target audience will sit through the little lesson if it is mandatory, but they won't identify.
Once more, I will say this: Teflon Casteen wants to blame others, and his staff cover for him. I would like to ask Casteen and Kaplan, if someone came to you and said GH had been arrested for drunk and disorderly in public, what exactly would you have done?? Your comments in the press releases and media interviews today imply that you would have taken action; please explain.
As the mother of a victim of violence on your campus, I know the answer. You would have done nothing.
You can silence the victims, but you cannot silence the parents.
My daughter's rapist raped another coed 6 moths after my daughter reported her rape. He was found guilty by a sexual assault board and not sanctioned. He was allowed to remain on campus and graduate "on time". The trauma he inflicted upon my daughter was unbearable. I contacted you both many times about this -- and again I will say it, you did nothing. So, today you make statements to the press that are politically correct, but your comments ring hollow with every woman who has turned to you for help or been a victim of violence on your campus.
The Governor should summon all the victims of violence on the UVA campus and ask them for their opinions. Then some progressive ideas might emerge to curb violence against women on the UVA campus.
@Restore the Republic - Also, criminal records released to a University seems like you could possibly walk a fine line between privacy and judging people on past transgressions. And how long do you continue to scrutinize people who have paid the debts for past transgressions through fines, jail time, or community service?
Very interesting questions....How long do you punish someone for past transgressions that they have already paid for? Do we give them the benefit of the doubt? or do we continue to be the paranoid society we have become trying to "protect" ourselves and our families? I, too, think there are no clear answers....just questions.
My daughter's rapist was arrested for obstruction of justice - the school did not care. And why should they? half the school population gets arrested - drunk in public, possession of alcohol by a minor, etc... it's the culture and there's nothing in those arrests that would indicate any of those kids are murderers. That's why I said that Casteen's deflection of blame to the Lexington cop was to cover. And so many people shook their heads and said yes.
The real way to eliminate these type of people is to take swift action when they are reported, ie when a student reports that they are raped, don't wait 10 days to interrogate the perp, as was our experience. (Who knows what that man could have done to my daughter in the 10 days following the rape?) Have a proactive sexual assault coordinator, a Dean of Students who takes the job seriously, and an independent watchdog panel that oversees the actions of these paid positions.
It is a good thing that Casteen is leaving, but the culture of violence against women will not be gone with him.
Susan R, I am sorry to read your comments about your daughters rape. I cannot begin to imagine what you have all been through.
As far as Yeardley Love is concerned, at what point should she have sought protection for herself and alerted the authorities? Please note that I put zero blame on the victim, I am only asking a question. And do victims feel they can seek help without triggering the very violence they seek to avoid?
Also, criminal records released to a University seems like you could possibly walk a fine line between privacy and judging people on past transgressions. And how long do you continue to scrutinize people who have paid the debts for past transgressions through fines, jail time, or community service?
These are troubling questions with no clear, or immediate answer(s).
@Tahoe: Here's my infamous question: UVA supports a Zero Tolerance policy for Cheating, but not for Rape. WHY?
At a campus meeting held on 25 March 2004, the University publicly acknowledged (and was quoted in the Cavalier Daily) that no one found guilty of sexual assault during the previous five years had been suspended or expelled from the University. In contrast, 38 students were expelled for "honor" offenses such as cheating or stealing in 2003.
Since 2001, no one found guilty of sexual assault has been suspended or expelled despite the student and media attention focused on this issue. Who has determined that rapists deserve to remain on campus?
It is an unacceptable fact to learn that as the crime statistics for the number of reported rape and sexual assault cases continues to increase, not one person has been expelled from the University for committing acts of sexual assault, even when found guilty by a Sexual Assault Board.
@Susan R: At a campus meeting held on 25 March 2004, the University publicly acknowledged (and was quoted in the Cavalier Daily) that no one found guilty of sexual assault during the previous five years had been suspended or expelled from the University. In contrast, 38 students were expelled for ââ?¬Å?honor” offenses such as cheating or stealing in 2003.
The distinction would be what constitutes a crime against the University versus a crime in the private sector that already has a well established judicial system? And, where would the University draw the line in deciding when to expel students and for what crimes? You single out rape as a crime that justifies being expelled, but if you go down that road I don't think you could hold the line to just rape.
Susan, I have disagreed with some of your comments but I also know you have had a lot of reasons to believe what you do. That said, I was glad you wrote that you did not believe UVA was to blame for this murder.
I'd argue that UVA does not exist in a vacuum -- in the past twenty years, it seems to me that women are treated still like objects, dehumanized, and mistreated. I don't think that we have made a lot of progress in the past twenty years to some extent. It's not UVA. Look at magazine cover, websites, etc. (And I'm not saying that ALL men treat women like this; I see a lot of coarseness [for a lack of a better word] from women towards men, trust me that I see that aspect of it too.)
I know that UVA has tried to do some things with abuse; I recall tons of literature passed out, bathroom stalls still have some signs about controlling men and potential abuse. I also remember how I was at 18-22 -- would I have reported a friend's boyfriend for this? Would I have reported someone who was an athlete and/or had money and connections? Would I take the chance that I would be accused of wrongdoing if I had persisted? If my friend said she was okay, would I have persisted still? I suspect that I wouldn't because the possibility that she could have been murdered by a "nice" boy would have seem very far-fetched and wrong of me.
I'm not blaming any of her friends, the team players or even the coaches (and it's interesting that no one is asking if her coach knew about any of this -- if she had, did she consider talking to her colleague about this?) or UVA. We are still hearing bits and pieces of all of this and it would be wrong to immediately say it's this person's fault or it isn't this person's fault.
This whole episode is something that could happen to anyone, any where, any time no matter what their social status, education, intelligence, or lack thereof. This is not just an UVA problem but a problem that is common throughout our community and we should figure out all the ways we can improve on helping ALL women (and men) who are being abused.
The idea that these claims of this Lexington officer are treated as "fact" by the media, including the Hook, shows just how irresponsible reporters and editors can become in times where the public demands a hanging. If in fact Mr. Huguely threatened to "kill" the officer, why was he only charged with resisting arrest? And why is it somehow UVa's fault or the lacrosse coach's fault that they were unaware of the extent of these allegations that are just now surfacing.
For all we know, this Lexington officer is sensationalizing her claims in light of this weekend's tragedy. It's a big leap from attempting to prevent a law-enforcement officer from lawfully arresting him - a class 1 misdemeanor - to threating to kill that officer.
Casteen by his nature is not very well equipped to handle an episode like this (not that anyone really is). He has about as much personality and feeling as a tax audit. I'll be looking forward to a new administration top to bottom.
How would anyone who doesn't actually know the accused know if he possesses these traits?
Here is a Q and A with a New Yorker journalist and a sociopath/psychopath expert - see if the accused matches these descriptions.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/ask/2008/11/questions-for-seabrook...
Here is also a link to take a look at re: psychopath test.
http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html
"The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:
glib and superficial charm
grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
need for stimulation
pathological lying
cunning and manipulativeness
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
callousness and lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity
early behavior problems
lack of realistic long-term goals
impulsivity
irresponsibility
failure to accept responsibility for own actions
many short-term marital relationships
juvenile delinquency
revocation of conditional release
criminal versatility"
"Not remembering an officer’s gender might be something to slip through the blur of a bad night. but to forget getting hit by a painful and incapacitating dose of thousands of volts of electricity is a feat reserved for the most intoxicated or most forgetful of human beings."
Editorialize much? This is unprofessional, unedited journalism. (Also evidenced by the 70-word lede.)
The all caps make your paranoid argument all the more credible ....
Florida Wahoo...thanks for this article.
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/5/6/1459030/george-huguely-yeardley-love-uv...
This is incredible and every lacrosse player should know that right or wrong, THIS Sterotype is there now. Come clean UVA LAX players...tell what you know. Do not protect this boy. He doesn't deserve it. Yeardley deserves justice!
Oldhoo72: "GSOE - most of the posts I read with your name attached tell us about corrupt or incompetent police and how their buddies cover for them. Yet you would trust them with that much data about you, including where you are at any time??"
Still no response from the Gasbag... Steve's head must've exploded when he realized that he couldn't BS his way out of his own BS.
Wow...just read this and was taken back a bit by the author's article. This is just one opinion, but he was on the "inside" of the lax culture....
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/5/6/1459030/george-huguely-yeardley-love-uv...
@Narrow Minded: Thanks so much for your Calvinistic worldview. A sober, abstemious approach to life is praiseworthy if you've had one, and good general advice. I also distinctly remember those passages in the Bible that refer to eternal damnation for those who imbibe. *smirk*
But before you get to cocky about your impending trip to Glory, let me switch reformers and remind you that Luther was emphatic about justification through Christ alone. Meaning: It doesn't matter how good you think you've been--you're industrial strength Kaka in God's eyes but he/she/it is willing to redeem you out of love. So maybe back off and go pray for salvation--it's given not earned.
The accused has had more than a few run-ins with the law over his apparently powerful thirst. This little ditty from Fox News:
(the last three paragraphs are precious)
http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/lacrosse-slaying--runin-with-law050610
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - Police records show that the University of Virginia student accused of beating a female lacrosse player to death had two run-ins with authorities in Florida.
The Washington Examiner reports Wednesday that George Huguely of Chevy Chase, Md., was charged with possession of alcohol by a minor in 2007 in Palm Beach County, where his family has a home in Manalapan.
A year later, a Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office report details an incident in which Huguely got into a "very heated" argument with his father and cousin on a 40-foot fishing boat.
Deputies said Huguely wanted to go back to the beach, but his father would only take him home, so he dove into the Atlantic Ocean to swim the quarter-mile to shore.
A passing vessel picked him up. No arrests were made.
Regarding: "@Gasbag you are ridiculous if you think that being required to provide a background check on condition of enrollment to a public school will slide."
Not true. I have two children attending US military service academies and both were required to submit paperwork to the local police department for full criminal background checks (down all the way to traffic stops) well before they reported to school.
It most certainly can, and is being, done.
With what-did-they-know-and-when-did-they-know-it as the question of the moment
-----------------
Better questions:
Why do you only know what you WANT to know.
Why DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT GOES ON IN YOUR OWN HOUSE????
------------------
Please understand, I am not pointing fingers only at UVA. This goes for ALL Universities. Deal with the Drug abuse, Rape, Alcohol abuse, violence on YOUR campus.
THIS SCHOOL IS YOUR responsibility to know what goes on. Get out from your ivory tower and walk among your students on a Friday or Saturday night. Go to a frat party, go to a local bar. Get up from the political dinner table of contributors and walk your property line....you may be amazed at what you might find!!! MR BASS of ANCHORAGE FARMS did....You OWE IT TO THE PARENTS and STUDENT to CLEAN UP THE MESS YOU HAVE ALLOWED ON YOUR WATCH.
(sadly shakes head and breathes)...disguested to put it mildly.
Gasbag Self Ordained Expert May 6th, 2010 | 10:07 am
cvllelaw, employers request criminal history and driving records on applicants all the time. The only thing that is required is the applicants permission.
Even I can request my own criminal history through the Virginia State Police for a small fee (used to be $15), with no ââ?¬Å?law enforcement purpose” whatsoever associated with my request.
If nothing else, make each and every student provide their criminal history as a condition of enrollment each year.
-------------------------------------
If you want to apply for a job, you have to put your criminal record on your applications....Oh wait...."WE" (ie UVA) are above that. "WE" are blueblood..."WE" most certainly smell of roses and wear white gloves. "WE" are above such common things..
From CNNSI:
It came as news to Casteen this week that the state of Virginia keeps a database of people convicted of crimes in the state. He said the school would begin using that database to check backgrounds. That database that eluded Virginia officials until this week, by the way, can be found easily by searching "Virginia criminal records" on Google.
Casteen lamented that no law exists requiring municipalities to alert universities when a student is arrested.
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/andy_staples/05/06/virgini...
The Dude May 6th, 2010 | 12:22 am
Ok everyone, For the handful of whackjobs still defending the lacrosse team, the Washington Post is now reporting ââ?¬Å?Eight of the 41 players on the roster of the University of Virginia men’s lacrosse team, including accused murderer George Huguely, have been charged with alcohol-related offenses during their careers at the school, according to court records.”
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Bet they still get to play... #1 team currently right??? Don't lose your ranking....
Not true. I have two children attending US military service academies and both were required to submit paperwork to the local police department for full criminal background checks (down all the way to traffic stops) well before they reported to school.
It most certainly can, and is being, done.
***
That's true, but somewhat irrelevant, don't you think? US military academies have different selection methods (appointment), student actions (use of weapons), student obligations (contractual military service), and student benefits (tuition, room and board, and stipend paid by the US government). Convicted felons might not even being eligible for the military service that military academy graduates are required to serve.
In other words, I don't think that most people want to see a convicted criminal shooting live ammunition at West Point. On the other hand, I don't see the objection generally at other public or private universities.
I've been told that all UVA press statements are run out of the development department. Can anyone verify this ? We will depend heavily on the Hook in coming months to follow this closely and not give UVA a pass.
NancyDrew - you're really letting down on the case:
http://www.virginia.edu/publicaffairs/staff.html
http://campaign.virginia.edu/site/c.jiKRL5POLvF/b.4915215/k.6A8D/Develop...
The only connection that I see is that the same Senior Vice President oversees both development and public affairs.
8 out of 41 players arrested is almost 20 percent. The University of Miami back in the "thug U" days wasn't that bad on their football team. UVa should be ashamed of these student/athletes, and someone held accountable. I hope it is worth being number one, to have your school all over the nightly news for murder.
As I hear, Huguely did 50 hours of community service at the Blue Ridge Food Bank after the 2008 arrest in Lexington. Did Starsia think it was voluntary and commend him for it? That might hold a key.
No way anyone asked for this. I think the accused definitely acted like not just a dominant but deranged dog. A dominant dog would not have to exert authority in order to maintain it - but an insecure dog or one that challenges the dominant dog would. I don't want to link the two contexts of the animal world and the human world and this case. The insecure dog would always go after the dominant dog.
I need to correct myself: the accused acted like an insecure and challenger dog, not the dominant. The dominant doesn't have to exert authority - it wouldn't go out of its way to make a point.
I don't agree with Decent guy. I do think though that the only deterrent to the accused would have been someone bigger and stronger - either a police force or someone like a bouncer. The guy was 6-1, 209 pounds - that's not fit for an athlete, but it is brute strength and force. Add to that frame a deranged state of mind (psychopath/sociopath) and you have a monster. There would have to be borders and boundaries. Is it possible he also had a key to the front door?
1) I did not blame this poor girl I am pointing out that if you do not learn your lesson from her experience and it happens to you it will be YOUR FAULT. She did not have the benefit of reading and seeing something as horrific as this and is a pure victim. (in my eyes)If you do not come away with the common sense to stay away from the animals that are among us then YOU will make her death a death in vain.
2) If beating a dominant dog only makes it angrier than you are not beating it hard enough. This is what all wolf packs do within themselves. Contrary to your opinion the dominant dog never relaxes which is why they stay "top dog" There are always newcomers. However in a domesticated world these ultra alphas need their comuppance repeatedly in order to keep them from doing crap like this.
I will bet by his third week in prison their will be two things true. He will be somebodies little girl and he will not be top dog.
3) My reference to being a decent guy has nothing to do with dating or the "nice" guys who get ignored for the bad boys.. It has to do with having the stones to step in when I see soemthing that needs fixing. If I had witenssed this jerk pushing her around I would not have stepped in to get the girl, I would have stepped in to teach him a lesson. Something that all you wimps in this burg are too weak minded to do.
But at least you can feel good about reycling your vitamin water bottles...
I would bet the family wished someone like me were around when they fought at the party.
Re: Decent guy tired of weak minded people
"I hope he gets raped in prison."
It seems to me, as a casual bystander and skimmer of these threads, that only a weak-minded person, and a less-than-descent-guy, would hope someone would get raped in prison.
Honestly, dude, you are asking for a crime to be committed against someone! You are the judge and jury and you want someone raped, criminally, in prison. You advocate crime! And your verbiage was probably stated with a weak thought in your brain that you are somehow 'morally' superior. I hope you are sitting down, because you fail miserably.
Ok MJ have it your way...
If someone had walked over to this jerk and exerted his "presence" than this girl might be alive.
I personally doubt it would have worked but we will never know.
They "changed" the laws in this country so that domestic violence is recognised as "violence" and this girl is still dead....
Seems like turning it over to the judicial system might not have been enough...
I assume Hugueley withdrew so quickly from the university because the university insisted on it. They would not want to be associated with or be seen to backing up a person charged with murder so most likely insisted immediately he withdraw. They would want to get as far away from his actions as is possible under the circumstances.
Decent guy I know you are perhaps a little old school/fashioned, but I hope someone like you is around if one of my three daughters ever needs protection.
The world seems to have become more dangerous since they passed a domestic abuse laws. I think people are content to turn it over to a failed court system and leave it at that. That saddens me.
I miss my father.
Hey Klockner Stadium...
Dom Starsia's father passed away this morning. Why dont you back off of your self-righteous indignation a bit and spare a kind thought for a good man who is having a horrible week.
I have a dollar to a donut , that IS NOT the real Observer . Unless she changed her linguistics.
GSOE your reference to Rhianna . Sorry bro , Rhianna is flat gorgeous . Girl is Smoking HOT . You drunk ? you better check into rehab :) I usually stop this video at 0.35 and just admire her beauty . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJYcmq__nDM you better take a second look .
Wonder why the UVA brass is NOT defending the decision to toss Morgan Harrington into the street ?
Dakota
I can speak only for myself of course, but I can not help but wonder, is anyone else as sick and tired of the seeming never ending shenanigans of U. Va.’s athletes? As a Charlottesville native, I can most emphatically say, I’ve had enough. The blind eye that was afforded to men’s lacrosse team player George Huguely, which afforded him the proximity to Yeardley Love, is just the icing on a very disgusting cake. I can not accept that those authority figures around Huguely were completely unaware of Huguely’s temper and other vices. They will ultimately fall upon the anvil of history and the verdict that is hammered into being there.
When a student is granted the privilege of being an ambassador for U. Va., and for the city and county of Mr. Jefferson, they should understand that they have accepted a most sober responsibility. They are the representatives of the school and the community, wherever they are, during the time they are engaged in scholastic and athletic endeavors as Cavalier athletes. I am not impressed when I hear of athletes breaking into the vehicles of residents to steal stereo equipment. I am not proud to hear about U. Va. athletes shoplifting at the mall. It is just plain ignorant, to have to stand before the local judicial system, to explain why a group of athletes walked out of a local drinking establishment, without paying the bill. These are just some of the incidents that I can recall. They are not cute, they are not justifiable, and we now see the tragic results of either inattention, or negligence, on the part of coaching staff and others in authority.
It is clear that U. Va. needs to be more concerned with the personal character of its athletes. It would appear that physiological, criminal, and financial background checks are in order. Obviously, more attention to any paper trails that have been accumulated at each players high school, or prep school needs to be meticulously examined. It is the minimum required to honor Yeardley Love’s memory. This must not be allowed again.
UVA has lofty pursuits and values, but these principles are resting upon a foundation of Jeffersonian double-speak that ultimately excuses all manner of violence and abuse, especially male violence against women. At UVA we are taught by example to overlook the unseemly side of Jefferson and his partners in American colonialism and southern slavery, because Jefferson and his peers were able to articulate higher principles that helped our country to form. So they get a pass. This kind of deference to our founding fathers is also what informs us to excuse the actions of our current brothers when they abuse the rights of others, because we somehow hope and believe that they are guided by better angels. Yet in hindsight, looking upon their legacy, we see their monuments to war and violence: In Charlottesville at the eastern entrance to the University we find a monument to General George Rogers Clark, ââ?¬Å?Conqueror of the Northwest.” This monument displays Clark and his soldiers attacking a family of Indians. Further down University Ave. we find a sculpture of the rifle-carrying Lewis and Clark towering above Sacajawea, looking westward with ambitions to take the lands and freedoms of the Indian tribes. Around the corner from there we find a larger than life bronze of General Robert E. Lee which is placed at the center of Lee Park. General Lee led a bloody rebellion that cost our nation nearly a million lives yet he somehow remains one of our exemplars. S these violent male heroes of Virginia are standing tall amidst the Cavaliers, as role models as they have for generations. I have to wonder what they are teaching in Charlottesville at the University of Virginia about male privilege and its impact upon the rights of others not considered equal to white men by Jefferson and his peers. I hope that male privilege to abuse the rights of others is acknowledged as part and parcel of the legacy of the University of Virginia and that we must somehow withdraw from the untenable moral position that extols violence against others as justified, something a bit difficult to do so long as Virginia takes so much pride in its violent legacy.
@Restore the Republic: I agree. I have never understood why people gloss over the fact that rape is a felony crime and not an administrative matter. I also believe that campus police should turn over all rape complaints to the local police and allow them to conduct the investigation. That way the perp can be arrested, or, for those of you who will argue, the woman arrested for making a false charge. Either way, the local police are the proper authority to make that decision.
In 2005 I submitted a Freedom of Information request to the school to divulge the exact number of reported rapes. The UVA response was 52. That's 52 crimes that resulted in zero arrests, zero sanctions.
When we say a culture of violence exists on the UVA campus, we speak in innuendo. The numbers of reported rapes is real and shocking. Since they are handled as administrative matters, and the school uses FERPA as a shield to not disclose this information, the campus is a "safe place" for those individuals who commit rape. At they very least, the accused and the accuser should be required to undergo psychological counseling.
Well, I'm not particularly impressed by her depth of intellectualism, but the incoming U.Va. president seems like the person who can run a competent and effective administration, and she isn't tied to U.Va.'s "traditional" way of doing things. And this incident will give her the leverage to make substantive changes right away. I would expect to see changes in policy and actions from U.Va. with regard to sexual assault and violence very soon.
deleted by moderator
Henry, I would only say this: these shenanigans you speak of occur among the non-athlete population as well. They simply don't grab headlines when it's a non-athlete. Non-athletes drink illegally; non-athletes rough up their girlfriends; non-athletes pummel one another; non-athletes lie, cheat, and steal. Unless it's a spectacular incident like Andrew Alston's, it's not going to be front-page news. Just because those are the incidents you hear about doesn't mean those are the only students who transgress.
Another point -- on other blogs this is now being referred to as a case of domestic violence. That's a softer phrase than murder. Let's be sure it remains what it is - murder. By calling it domestic violence you are doubting Yeardley's ability to say no. She deserves better than that.
Does that mean "acquaintance rape" is not as traumatic as "stranger rape"?
It is semantics, meant to take the sting out of what it is - a felony crime. And as I said, when you calling it domestic violence it sounds like an episode of Oprah. We have no knowledge of the relationship between YL and GH, yet we are categorizing it with a term that makes it appear the victim did not seek help. YL was in her room with her door locked. GL could have left the building, or he could have kicked the door in in. His free will chose the path, the wrong path. No lecture on partner violence or official restraining order would have influenced him to do otherwise. The only way this would have been prevented would have been to remove him from the campus. And how? By creating a climate where a woman feels she can come forward and share her concerns with a counselor who WILL take immediate action. That climate currently does not exist at UVA, despite what Casteen has said in his remarks of the past few days.
SusanR - the logical inference from the previous comment would be that acquaintance rape would be more traumatic, other things equal, because the victim knew the attacker, although it's a somewhat different situation. But why let reason get in the way of your arguments.
Also, you're the one who repeatedly equates "domestic violence" with "not seeking help." That's incredibly offensive to victims of domestic violence, who are not passive victims and many of whom seek help. Incredibly offensive.
The only way this would have been prevented would have been to remove him from the campus.
***
Well, except that this did not occur on campus. But, again, why let reason get in the way of your arguments?
***
We have no knowledge of the relationship between YL and GH
***
It has been extensively reported that they had previously dated. Again, why let evidence or reason get in the way of your arguments. Your points are generally valid, but you're the Cindy Sheehan of this issue.
@OK: It's late. you must not be thinking clearly.Remove him from the campus means remove him from the school when earlier actions made it questionable if he belonged at UVA. I know this did not happen on campus. Duh.
So, they had previously dated. We don't know for how long, if it were generally a loving relationship, a casual relationship, or if he beat the crap out of her every week.
I am NOT the Cindy Sheehan of this issue. Don't minimize my efforts to make your city safer. What have YOU done besides add your 2 cents to a blog? do you have children who were victims of felony crime while attending UVA?
@OK - you’re the one who repeatedly equates ââ?¬Å?domestic violence” with ââ?¬Å?not seeking help.” That’s incredibly offensive to victims of domestic violence, who are not passive victims and many of whom seek help. Incredibly offensive.
At VA Tech, 2 hours passed after the initial shootings at Ambler Johnson. The University president felt it was an isolated case of domestic violence. Had Steeger treated the shootings as "murder" they would have locked down the campus.
The phrase "domestic violence" infers a problem between 2 people. The culture of violence against women at UVA is an issue that should not be minimized with the term "domestic violence". Call it what you want, soften it however you want, the crime is murder.
And the media blitz today by the University contained comments that "no one came forward". Not my choice of words. It's all part of the school's campaign to shift blame off of their services and staff.
I doubt anyone who is a victim of domestic violence would find me offensive. They would be glad I have the fortitude to stand up for them and tell it like it is, not tote the party line.
Susan,
I don't understand your argument. If he was expelled from school, how would that have exactly prevented this from occurring? You think being expelled meant he was immediately going to pack his bags and leave town? You've stated that you're not blaming the University, but your comments all seem to suggest otherwise.
Also, it's rude of you to accuse OK of being nothing more than some commenter. You have no idea the work some of us may have done to make the community a better place, to reduce violence, and to stop crime. You have no idea who of us is law enforcement, works for the University, or has been a victim of a crime ourselves. You have no idea which of us have daughters and sons who have been victims of crimes. But furthermore, none of those above things--including you--make you or anyone else the final word on the matter.
"BUT, if he had been expelled when the infractions occurred, he would not have been a member of the UVA community and Ms Love would not be dead. That’s easy to understand."
So it's UVA's fault. Gotcha.
Let's kick out every student who has ever had a violent outburst. That's exactly where I want them, on the streets without an education and without any structure.
Students pay for an education and expect to be able to live in a safe environment.
I know what I know from personal experience. I know that when people break the law they should be dealt with through the appropriate channels. In my workplace, if a co-worker harasses another, they report it to a supervisor and it is dealt with immediately. If the harassment doesn't stop, the individual is fired. If anyone in our company says they are working in a "hostile environment", HR is right on it. Is that type of control present on a college campus? no.
I am glad for all the people who work to stop violence at UVA, but I am here to say, and I'll say it to your group in person if you think I use these boards as a bully pulpit - the work that is done is not focused on the core problem. Lectures, flyers are all sweet - but they don't educate. The best education is to know that rapists are expelled.
How can you say if GH had been expelled, how would that have prevented this from happening? If his outbursts years back had been addressed by anger management classes and mandatory alcohol education classes, he might have had a chance to understand and modify his behavior. If his outbursts continued, his coach could have red-shirted him until he "got the message". If any woman in the past 4 years reported him to the Dean of Students for inappropriate behavior, we will never know. BUT, if he had been expelled when the infractions occurred, he would not have been a member of the UVA community and Ms Love would not be dead. That's easy to understand.
I don't want the last word. I want people to take their blinders off and become proactive and stop believing that the UVA culture of violence against women is a myth.
There is a posting under one of the articles by "Ex-UVA". They say it much better than I ever could.
I am NOT the Cindy Sheehan of this issue. Don’t minimize my efforts to make your city safer. What have YOU done besides add your 2 cents to a blog? do you have children who were victims of felony crime while attending UVA?
***
Actually, I was a victim of a felony crime when I was an undergrad at U.Va. It wasn't a big deal. The system worked at U.Va. and the Albermarle County Commonwealth's Attorney office. The main assailant was convicted, as he should have been, and got 5 years in prison, which was the minimum sentence and more than reasonable. Oh, and a U.Va. athlete was involved in a lesser role. It was an interesting experience, but fortunately not traumatic in the least for me.
As we speak, Casteen & co. are STILL proving how adept they are at media manipulation, obstruction of justice, and keeping any and all negative news that might possibly involve a UVA student from being covered. They obviously could not stop this case from hitting the front pages. It did before they could react. If Ms. Yeardley had only survived, you probably would have never heard about it any more than you did Mr. Huguely's attack on a team mate while he was sleeping.
But notice how we STILL have no mention of what was in Mr. Hugueley's blood stream a week ago. We STILL have no cause of death in the case of a 21 year old student dropping dead 5 weeks ago. The UVA polive got to that one - a few hundred feet from Casteen's house - before anyone else could. Their cowardly mantra of "no comment, no comment" continues. Is there really not a single officer in that organization who is ready to blow the whistle once and for all?? NOW is the time.
If there was even ONE investigative journalist in this town at present, they would be rolling the huge, dead log over to reveal what lies beneath around here. That includes the hundreds of wiolent, drunken, drugged incidents - including sexual assaults - that Casteen's administration has been making consistently disappear for two decades now. Face it, folks, there is a very particular REASON why you haven't EVER heard of a violent, drunk, drugged outburst by a UVA student, be it sexual assaults, assaults on police officers, assaults on anyone. Does anyone really think for one second that the only ones that have occurred the last decade are the few that ended in murder?!
WHY is the guy at the helm of this regime of cover ups being honored and allowed to give the commencement speech?
@OK - I believe I know you. If you are the person I am thinking of, you and I stood side by side and talked about my daughter's rapist attending TBTN. Your assailant was not a UVA student and that's why he was sent to prison - right? He either was in the Army or had been in the Army.
You found the trial to be interesting but not traumatic in the least? Then you are the Cindy Sheehan. You cannot identify with the greater cause. I'm concerned for you.
Every prosecutor knows how difficult it is to prosecute a sexual assault. That's just unfortunately the nature of the crime. In our criminal justice system we don't give more credibility to someone simply because they're the accuser, and we don't disbelieve someone simply because they're the defendant. Invariably it's he said/she said, and when there is nothing to impeach the credibility of either side, the prosecutor--faced with the near impossible burden at this point of beyond reasonable doubt--loses.
It has nothing to do with whether or not someone is a UVA student. Prosecuting rapes is hard. Period.
@OK - I believe I know you. If you are the person I am thinking of, you and I stood side by side and talked about my daughter’s rapist attending TBTN. Your assailant was not a UVA student and that’s why he was sent to prison - right? He either was in the Army or had been in the Army.
****
Ummm, not in the least. One on the convicted was a U.Va. student and varsity football player. He was more of an accomplice and copped a plea, pled guilty, got jail time, and testified in the trial that I was involved in.
@Jake; It's always ok to disagree ... as I've said, I know what I know from experience.
My daughter went to the UVA ER within the required "72 hours". She sat in a cold room, in those little hospital gowns, her friends not allowed in, for 4 hours before she was examined. her friends asked to sit with her and they were told no. None of the medical professionals sat with her. A SANE nurse was present; I don't know what she was supposed to do because the child was left alone in a cold hospital room. After the doctor examined my daughter and documented his findings, he told her she could leave. After she was dressed and was leaving the nurse remarked to her that they didn't do the "blue dye test". THEY forgot, but at that point, my daughter was still traumatized, emotionally exhausted, and frustrated and left the hospital. She had already been there nearly 6 hours.
So, tell me, what impact did the SANE nurse have on my daughter's ER visit? It's great to have them -- no denying that fact. I want UVA to have SANE nurses. I want the system to work properly.
Look, I am not going to debate with you if you continue to toss out rude comments. I will dialogue with the facts of my daughter's case, which I consider not to be unique to women who experience sexual assault at UVA.
@OK, I know the case. sorry to have the mixup.
Per the Clery Act tables mentioned in Sean's posting: In 2008, the last reporting year, the table shows 7 Forcible Sex offenses reported to campus police and 7 Forcible Sex offenses reported to other agencies. That's a total of 14 rapes reported by students. Were any students sanctioned or expelled? Were any arrests made? If the answer is no, then why?
Somebody on the Cavalier Daily site actually took the time to go right to the UVA Police's website and find their specific policy - and thus the administration's own policy - on these matters:
ââ?¬Å?The University does not record statistics for crimes involving students that occur in other jurisdictions and are investigated by other local police agencies. Such criminal offenses are recorded by the jurisdiction where the crime occurs, however the University maintains good communication with other departments and tries to monitor incidents involving students in other local jurisdictions.”
http://www.virginia.edu/uvapolice/stats.html
There's their own policy that Casteen & co. were hoping nobody would find, and proof of their lies in that press conference the other day. Note too that the local media missed it also.
The Lexington police department did not know that Mr. Huguely was a UVA student. He had no identification on him that suggested he was anyone other than just another 20 year old coming down from MARYLAND to visit friends and getting out of control. VMI and William and Mary make very frequent requests as to whether any of their students have been in legal trouble, and the department responds to each. UVA makes no such requests. For Mr. Casteen to suggest that the Lexington Police Department had some sort of obligation to inform his administraion of Mr. Huguely’s arrest in 2008 is just more diversion from common sense ââ?¬â?? and his administration’s long tradition of covering up violent/drunken/drugged incidents involving its students.
UVA can access the criminal records of its students any time it wants, and chooses either not to ââ?¬â?? or not to divulge any results therefrom (my guess is the latter). Keep in mind that all of these criminal records are public information and can even be obtained online. Nobody need go directly to the specific jurisdiction involved in thbe incident/arrest.
The Lexington Police Department did their job. The court sentence was way too lenient for someone who resisted arrest and threatened police officers repeatedly with ââ?¬â?? - death! If Mr. Huguely would have had to take a month or two off from school to go to jail, then PERHAPS history might have played out a bit differently. Perhaps he might have finally tasted some accountability and calmed down. If not, perhaps Ms. Love would have likewise woken up to exactly who she was dating. But the the attraction for the biggest, baddest boys just is what it is. It’s the real world. And until a week ago, Mr. Huguely had no reason to think that he wasn’t a BMOC bad boy that had and would continue to get away with whatever he wanted to inside the UVA bubble. I still agree with another few posters here (one of whom gives details of her daughter’s rape at UVA and her attacker’s conviction 6 months later of obstruction of justice) who suggested that had only Ms. Love survived the attack, we would probably have never known about it. And that is thanks to Mr. Casteen’s very consistent and long standing policy regarding such things.
Note that the only negative UVA stories that printed in Charlottesville are when there’s a dead body at the end of the incident. No others make it to press. Have you noticed that, or are you just noticing that now? The point is that ââ?¬Å?we got your back” is a tradition and a culture around UVA. Has been for a long time. And it is within this culture that men like Mr. Huguely flourish. There is accountability for UVA students if they copy and paste a few sentences from wikipedia for a paper while on a ship hundreds of miles from a library ââ?¬â?? but there has been exactly ZERO accountability for ANYTHING that happens between 10 pm and 4 am. And yes, that includes all the drug use, getting 17 year old girls rip roaring drunk in frat houses, the sexual assaults, the petty vandalism, the violence, or the hundreds of Drunk In Public arrests.
Hopefully, Gov. McDonnell will hold Casteen’s feet to the fire when they meet tomorrow. Nobody in Charlottesville that can do anything about him will dare. It’s up to him. And that includes the very, very curious way the state medical examiner in Richmond acts any time there is a UVA student involved. Still no toxicology reports from the SERP brother who died 5 weeks ago, or indeed Mr. Huguely who has been in custody for a week. Indeed, still no cause of death in the first case at all. As we saw with the Harrington investigation’s details, the reputation of ââ?¬Å?the university” comes first before ethics, honesty, accountability, or even medical science.
It’s worth asking everyone one more time, and this includes the local media.. Why the hell would the UVA administration be allowed to suggest that they would have done something about Huguely’s arrest in in Lexington in 2008 when they cover up and do nothing about similar arrests of their students on their own campus ââ?¬â?? and do a perfect job of making sure that the local media does not cover any of it?
@Sean: Good post!
Same goes for the School Sexual Assault policies. What they say or lead the media to believe is not what is in the written policy.
All Universitiy top brass know that their futures depend not on how much rape and violence occurs but how much gets perceived. They will guard their precious reputation at any one elses expense. They can pretend to do otherwise but the legacy speaks for itself.
Of course, the kids that parents are sending to them have way less values and a much greater sense of entitlement than ever before.
So the school needs to step up to the plate and the parents need to send them a more disiplined child to work with.
Well, here we go again making the most ridiculous presumptions.. The latest batch being that the UVA administration; a) tells the truth, b) pretends for just a second in front of the national media that a drunk in public arrest of one of their students is a big deal to them, or c) would have done anything other than cover the 2008 incident completely and make sure nobody covered the story in any case.
Has anyone bothered to ask all the folks in Lexington if anyone ever notified UVA? Probably not. That might, well, you know, reveal things we don’t want to know ââ?¬â?? of course. Either way, WHY the hell would ANYONE think that they would have handled this any differently than they do the dozens of DIP arrests (and assaults on their own police officers) right here on grounds every football Saturday and Foxfield Saturday????????????????????
They had their UVA police force ââ?¬â?? the ones who get assaulted by drunks and it’s not news ââ?¬â?? put up yellow police tape in front of the rotunda yesterday so as to prevent the media satellite trucks from parking there anymore. I saw a cop running one of them off earlier in the day because they had not gotten permission to park there from Carr’s Hill. Ha! I bet it will be hard to get a hotel room in this town this weekend. Somebody probably scooped them up so the national media in town would have no place to stay. The Casteen Cloaking Device is very busy at present. Get the media out of town. Don’t let them park. Don’t reveal what was in Huguelys blood stream Sunday night, or which fraternity he belonged to. Don’t let anyone know about the broken ribs from the assault at Kappa Sigma a few weeks back either. Everyone just keep quiet, and it will all go away ââ?¬â?? just like it always does. Graduation is coming, and so is Beach Week. Yay !
Any other place or school in the country, and a student dropping dead 5 weeks ago in a frat house at the age of 21 would not only be news ââ?¬â?? everyone would know why he died.
Not here!
Any other place or school in the country, and every possible detail and evidence in the case of a missing young woman in danger would have been covered quickly and thoroughly ââ?¬â?? even if she was from that ââ?¬Å?other” school.
Not here!
Any other place or school in the country, and assaults on police officers by students would be news, and the community warned that such behavior is not tolerable.
Not here!
Any other place or school in the country, and the dozens of arrests at a horse race for DIP and drugs would include the names of those adults arrested.
Not here!
Any other place or school in the country, and the BAC and/or drugs in a suspected murderers blood the night he killed a fellow student would be knowledge that would be of great interest to the student body, and news of it would come quick and thorough.
Not here!
Any other place or school in the country, people would realize that an ongoing police investigation requires confidentially of certain facts, such as a suspects BAC and drug contents, in order to ensure that the pending trial is protected at all costs.
Not here!
Any other place or school in the country, a murder without any suspects would result in absolutely no specific details and evidence being let out, in order to weed out the dozens of people who without exception always call in falsely confessing to the crime; and the community would understand this.
Not here!
My understanding is these types of facts are withheld along with everything else so that there is no discussion as to "Why did they release x and not y?". The blanket policy is release nothing until a solid case has been formed. Remember that so far, NOTHING has been released by the police. The media has acquired it all on its own (the unsealed affidavits for the search warrant, for example).
In due time, I'm sure everything will come out. For now, there's simply no reason to do so. Knowing what his BAC is isn't of any value to the public other than to satisfy curiosity.
quote: In 2005 I submitted a Freedom of Information request to the school to divulge the exact number of reported rapes. The UVA response was 52. That’s 52 crimes that resulted in zero arrests, zero sanctions.
And the 52 was probably the rapes that WERE reported. What about the rapes where the girl woke up the next morning and didn't recall anything about the night before? And the girls who knew a rape report wouldn't go anywhere? And the girls who were terrified of becoming the "willing" party as they are dragged through an embarrassing trial? The list is long of why girls do not report rapes. I suspect 252 would a more accurate number than 52.