Mall moves: Second Street to get $800k 'scaping
Trashed since construction on the Landmark Hotel began, Second Street SE will now be getting a $800K make-over.PHOTO BY DAVE MCNAIR
While our colleague Allan Smithee is certainly a talented writer, he sometime plays a little fast and loose with the facts. [See "The Rutabaga–editor.]
Second Street SE on the Downtown Mall may look like a trash site right now, but Neighborhood Development chief Jim Tolbert assures us that an $808,000 streetscaping project is scheduled to begin in September. The project was originally planned to be completed in coordination with the construction of the Landmark Hotel, but as that project appears to be stalled indefinitely, the city has decided not to wait.
According to city engineer Tony Edwards, the project should take about four months. And the eye-popping price tag? That appears to be the result of lessons learned on the $400,000 Third Street streetscaping project.
As Downtown mavens and merchant recall all too vividly from 2007-08, unexpected engineering problems made Third Street unusable for over a year, as burying overhead utilities–- electric, cable, telephone–- was stalled by having to replace an old tangle of water and sewer lines, resulting in a project that Edwards admitted was "more complicated than we thought it would be."
"One reason that Second Street is more expensive is that bidders know what happened at Third Street with all the unknowns underground," says Tolbert. "The other reason is that this project includes taking the utilities along Water Street on both sides of the intersection underground."
The streetscape portion of the project will be nearly identical to Third Street, and involve extending the brickwork from building face to building face down to Water Street, burying utilities, and adding street lighting, benches, caf© areas, and trees. Philadelphia-based Wallace Roberts & Todd, which designed the Third Street make-over and just wrapped up work on the J&DR Courthouse, will handle Second Street as well. Mall re-bricking contractor Barton Malow, who impressed with their speedy work on the Mall, will handle the construction management, as the city hopes to avoid another Third Street fiasco.
As some may recall, merchants and businesses like Fleurie and Rapture restaurants were frustrated by the Third Street delays. Managers at Rapture couldn't take deliveries on the street, and when patrons exited Fleurie, one of Charlottesville's most exclusive and expensive restaurants, they were greeted by a large yellow port-a-potty. Because of the construction and fencing, Shirley Barrett, who owned a nail shop at the time, said her elderly customers had stopped coming. Barrett would eventually close her shop.
"It's going to hurt for a little while," says Hal Brindley, owner of Oyster 2 antiques on Second Street, who is well aware of what happened on Third Street. "I'm hoping the infrastructure is okay here, but I think the odds are good there won't be as many problems." Brindley was also concerned about losing an off-street parking spot he owns on the street, but says the city agreed to give him free parking in one of the Downtown garages.
Of course, looking out the window of his shop, the upcoming streetscaping project doesn't weigh nearly as heavily on his mind as "getting that stupid hotel built."
"I would be pleased with a hotel across the street, especially a luxury one," says Brindley, but says he would settle for condominiums, something besides the giant concrete skeleton next door.
Asked if there were any concerns about the new streetscaping getting compromised should the hotel project start up again, Tolbert says any digging for the hotel on the street has already been done.
"They will have to erect scaffolding on it," he says, "but they will have to bond against any damage, just as they would have to do on the Mall side."
43 comments
Dave, can you tell me how much has been paid into the city in the form of meals tax, sales tax, real estate taxes and license fees for the last 5 years? Can you also tell me how much has been spent on the mall in the last 5 years?
Anyway you cut it, the downtown mall is cooler than a whiney fat guy chugging gas in a Van while snorting down $20 worth of 5 guys. Its not NYC, but it does have quite a bit on a great percentage of far larger cities.
quote: "...surely there are other goals towards which the city could spend this money..."
Exactly the point.
I wonder how the public school system could have benefited from the $7 million plus pissed away on new bricks and various upgrades on tha mall?
I wonder how many fuel efficient vehicles the city could have purchased with $7 million dollars? To replace the gas guzzlers in their fleet?
I wonder how much of the $7 million the local rescue squad could have put to better use?
While it's against my better judgement (and opinion), the $7+ million could have been used to keep the work going on the new mall hotel. Now we have new brick and an abandoned half finished hotel. LOL!!!
Some metal giant within the city attempted to close the McIntire Wading Pool over a small repair that needed to be made to meet federal regulations... while the city was busy pissing away $7 million on mall bricks.
etc... etc... etc...
quote: "Well poo poo poo. Gasbag you seem pretty aware of who you are by your title. Why don’t you hit 29 North and keep going. Thanks."
I was born and raised here. Were you?
I don't have to like the changes.
You're free to roam the mall any time you desire. Along with the other 500 people, 35 homeless, 15 drunks, 25 panhandlers and the other assorted juvenile wanna be ganstas on any given Friday evening. The mall seems to carry a pretty high price to entertain this small list of people considering there's 135,000 people in Charlottesville and Albemarle County.
quote: "I’m amazed when people say they don’t go downtown because its crowded, hard to drive there, and hard to park."
Crowded? Hard to drive there? Hard to park? Where did you read all of that? It's very easy to park in the various parking garages. And when you return to your car, there's a pretty darn good chance it's been broken into.
quote: " I’ve lived all over the world and all over the United States. Nothing comes close to Charlottesville/Albemarle County."
Do you realize how ridiculous that statement really is?
I left Charlottesville 23 years ago to join the military right after high school. I've missed it ever since. I've since retired and live in Hampton Roads, 2 hours away. I've lived all over the world and all over the United States. Nothing comes close to Charlottesville/Albemarle County. I suggest the whiners and complainers who frequent this forum daily, get out of C'ville for a while and maybe you'll realize that you are an idiot for taking it for granted. I get back there as often as possible to visit family and friends & I'd move back in a minute if the opportunity arose.
quote: "Where exactly is that trial going to be? You’ve ââ?¬Å?testified” on sites like this one for years now, aren’t you worried you’ve poisoned the jury pool?
****, nope. The fact two cops will be testifying against a former cop is certainly no reason a change of venue would ever be granted. The lawsuit is filed in Charlottesville Circuit Court and will be heard there. Let there be no mistake though, I have no objections to the case being moved to Buckingham or Cumberland. Trust me, they are good down to earth people who won't approve of what took place.
Furthermore, I have never mentioned anything that isn't public record in the filing. The lawsuit clearly states the former cop lied, conspired and fed the other two cops false information. We will show the motive for his actions. Another similar lawsuit was settled out of court recently.
It's not my fault this particular lawsuit I currently speak of has been pending since 2005. The wheels of justice move very slowly. Even more slowly in the civil side of the system. We have asked for a jury trial and a date for the case to be heard, but we have received no date so far.
quote: "...storefronts will get filled. Five Guys and Urban Outfitters are only the beginning. Look for Starbucks, Gap, Pottery Barn, etc”Š"
Gate, there is nothing wrong with wishful thinking.
But I would be willing to bet Urban Outfitters doesn't last two years on the mall. Even my fashion minded daughter who buys new clothes every day of her life has expressed no desite to go to Urban Outfitters.
quote: "Why are people afraid to use their real names on this site?"
If you hang around long enough, you will discover I use whatever name my followers want me to use. I was nicknamed "Gasbag Self Ordained Expert" a week or so ago by my followers.
I can not answer your question as to why people use names like CC, ****, cvllelaw, Music Lover, hahahaha, john, petalmetal, riff, etc... Ask them. :)
Within the next 12 months you will see two cops testify against a third cop that would rather lie than eat fried chicken. I’ll post an invite when the time comes so you can sit on the front row during the jury trial of the lawsuit and watch.
Where exactly is that trial going to be? You've "testified" on sites like this one for years now, aren't you worried you've poisoned the jury pool? Any defense attorney worth a sh!t is going to move for a change of venue, and then you'll be be lucky if a Buckingham or Cumberland county jury gives you 10% of what you feel entitled to and thinks they've done you a favor. Seriously, does your attorney know you come on sites like this and discuss the facts of your case behind very flimsy anonymity?
quote: "... It was unecessary, in my opinion, to brick over the road in any way to create a different environment.... while I am not against taxpayer money to rebuild an area, I certainly think the Downtown Mall development has been a very poor bargain. From the Omni to the current Landmark Hotel fiasco, it is a series of myopic decisions to support a particular culture while ignoring others....."
Caesonai, I'm sorry, but you're wasting your time and effort on this crowd.
From Here but Not Here:
I have lived all over the world too, and what enver ceases to amaze me is how the City can take a basically good idea, and muck it up. I am not opposed to malls, per se. I am opposed to how its been about using taxpayer dollars to cater to a select few business types, leaving us with a glorified food court that offers little variation or value. It's also especially sill to decide that turning older residences into businesses somehow fosters a more pedestrian based market.
Gasbag -
if you read above, I am not exactly as opposed as you are, I am opposed to how its been done. I am strongly for pedestrian oriented growth and development, because well, we can't always promise easy parking in high density locations. And, I just think its a way we need to go.
The City just isn't being smart about it. I mean, something should have been learned from the Omni. No one should have ever let Minor and Danielson ever get their hands on a project to do somethign equally stupid.
Pratt-
Yes, the times are a changing. The question is whether they are changing in a healthy way. More noise and loud music at night does not necessarily mean something is alive. Charlottesville was not dead in the 70's by a long shot. It was a smaller Southern University town going through the same sorts of conflicts found throughout the US from Vietnam to Civil Rights.
Get over the fact that not everyone wants to go to a nightclub to get their jollies.
To me, the mall has been taxpayer sinkhole that has not lived up to the great commercial highway it was touted as. I don't mean that you have to have giant box stores, or anything like that.
cvillelaw-
"Just to make things clear ââ?¬â? the Landmark Hotel was private enterprise."
So was the Omni, initially, if I recall correctly. It was the Radisson Hotel, a private enterprise subsidized by pennies on the dollar for the land. It flopped, and the city started to bail it out with taxpayer development dollars. It was sued over using city development funds to support a private operation. Ultimately, the taxpayer got the meals-tax to pay for cleaning the whole operation. Which we are still paying.
Gosh, sounds a lot like the Pavillion - pennies on the dollar using a public park to subsidize a private commercial enterprise that has been very problematic.
Now, the taxpayer is going to have to pay for this hotel to be built or converted. It's a plan that should have never been allowed, the mayor Norris was oh so glad to be there at the ground breaking. Its more catering to certain special types of business models while others get slapped away.
hahahaha, I think City Council has for years made it very clear that the downtown mall trumps education and public safety in funding. I'm not sure the fire department needs more employees, but the cops and schools sure could have used the $7,000,000+ dollars.
Even including inflation in my quick off-the-wall calculations this minute, the $7,000,000+ dollars spent this year alone could easily have put 10 to 12 cops out on patrol in the city for 10 years each. This means nothing when a few yuppies need a place to sit down and drink a glass of red wine. And nice brick to walk on to get to that place of course.
"Even including inflation in my quick off-the-wall calculations this minute, the $7,000,000+ dollars spent this year alone could easily have put 10 to 12 cops out on patrol in the city for 10 years each. This means nothing when a few yuppies need a place to sit down and drink a glass of red wine"
Mr./Mrs./Ms. Gasbag/Steve/Sick, don't you spend most of your rant time railing against local police and their expenditures? Please do explain your sudden shift.
Extortion??? LOL!!!! Signed and agreed upon by both the city and county, with the stipulation that the city would not annex portions of the county at the time.
Based on the growth we have now seen in the portions that could have been annexed, we can agree on the fact it was the dumbest thing the city ever did.
The second dumbest thing the city ever did was selling Lane High School to the county.
If we want to start spliting hairs, perhaps the county should contribute 50% to the upgrades and repairs to the mall since county residents use it just as much as city residents. :)
Other then that, I think the mall is a great place to be. I have been down there and it's packed with people from one side to the other. If it waesn't bricked there is no way you could fit that many people in there. As far as business goes there are a lot of restriction placed on deeds there as far as what shops can be what and that is probilly hurting the mall more then anything.
I wonder if the city taxpayers will ever get fed up with the amount of money being thrown at this stupid mall?
I never wanted to see the dayum thing built in the first place, but I have been paying for it since day 1. Another $800,000 to walk 200 feet from Water Street to the mall. Absolutely disgusting!
"is irrelevant when discussing how the city pisses away the taxpayer’s money."
Other than the county gives the city millions per the revenue-sharing agreement/extortion. ;-)
*Caesonia, you pegged that right. Nothing more than a glorified food court. The few people who frequent the mall on a consistent basis could probably be treated to a free dinner at The Aberdeen Barn once a week for the next 10 years with the $7,000,000+ that has been pissed away on the brick and upgrades this past year.
*John, you can rest assured City Council sees and reads comments here. I have let it be known for a long time that I think the entire mall is a waste of taxpayer money.
The trouble with this town is the fact that the residents are basically spineless. They won't come together and proclaim that enough is enough! If they did, I feel confident in saying the City Council meeting would have to be held at the John Paul Jones arena due to the crowd.
Does it matter if you were born and raised here...no...we both live here now and we both get a say but it seems that you have 0 respect for the opinons of anyone but yourself.
As someone who moved here to work in this city from another state. The mall was one of the cities biggest draws. You may not like it but a lot of people do, considering it is packed with people enjoying their evenings every time I get the opportunity to head down there for dinner. The only thing I wish it had was a better movie theater but on the other hand the downtown theater does have charm. Just because you are stuck in "the good ol days" doesn't mean everyone else has to be.....
I'm amazed when people say they don't go downtown because its crowded, hard to drive there, and hard to park. Those are the places you want to go - its busy because there is stuff to do there - its in demand. Want easy driving and parking? I recommend the albemarle square shopping center - no crowds - because there's nothing there worth crowding around.
Gasbag - I can understand your frustration about the mall in one sense. It's sort of a continuation of the whole Vinegar Hill blow up, and now continues in Belmont. With Main St becoming hip, the easy parking dream you want wouldn't have lasted. But woe betide those who create a unique thriving community to have it taken away and remade into something more 'cool' destroying everything you built.
The Mall has counted on lots of subsidies and is nothing more than a glorified food court, once you get beyond the Ice Park and Movies. The Paramount would be there in any case. And, alas, it can be an attraction for the less healthy in society.
That same behavior has been invited into Belmont now too. And it will be at the taxpayer expense. For?
Another glorified food court.
Change comes, but the Mall was a bad place to do what they did. I used to go there, but I would have done so even if Main St were still wide open. Less and less as time passes because most of the food places stink.
there's a city council meeting on the 8th, gasbag, if you'd care to complain to those who have the power to do something about all this
quote: "The reason why GSOE could find a parking place on the street back then was that there was little competition for the parking places. People weren’t coming downtown, and businesses were drying up and moving to Barracks Road and Fashion Square."
I disagree of course. Even back then you had to circle a few blocks before you could find a parking space. Business was thriving down there. I worked at Leggett's as a youngster, we stayed busy all the time. Even then, Barracks Road Shopping Center had not become the success they had hoped for. The brick killed many long time successful businesses off, like Charlottesville Hardware for example. The brick signed their death warrant.
quote: "There are too many vacant storefronts, particularly at the east end."
As Caesonia said above, the mall has become nothing but a glorified food court. The mall can only support so many restaurants. Just like this area can't support 20 Walmarts. You will see more vacant storefronts in the next few years, the mall is dying. And the fact the mall is dying is one of the reasons they tried to revive it with new brick, IMHO! The now abandoned half finished hotel popped the city's bubble too. But I'm sure the city taxpayers will end up footing the bill to complete it, no matter what City Council has said. Another Omni in the making, just watch and see.
And what happens when you go down to the mall and spend $200 on dinner, drinks and entertainment? I can tell you what happens. A pregnant woman gets knocked to the ground by cops, as she and her boyfriend shout out for a cop to slow the heck down as the cop almosts runs over them in a pedestrian crosswalk. They both get arrested and spend the night in jail too. Speaks very highly of the mall, eh?
I wasn't born here, but Charlottesville has been my home for 48 years. I remember quite well what Main Street was like in the mid-60's, and I remember even better how run-down it was becoming by the mid-70's. The reason why GSOE could find a parking place on the street back then was that there was little competition for the parking places. People weren't coming downtown, and businesses were drying up and moving to Barracks Road and Fashion Square. Had that trend continued, we would not only have lost the anchor stores (Miller & Rhoads, Leggett, etc.), but there would have been nothing to replace them. From an economic standpoint, if you look at sales tax revenues and property tax revenues, our investment in the Downtown Mall -- including, by the way, our investment in the Omni -- has been a positive. If you look at the cultural or sociological standpoint -- what it means to have a vibrant downtown area -- we are definitely ahead of the game.
By the way, I also remember that there were panhandlers and drunks downtown before the bricks went in.
As current economic conditions show, the Mall's commercial success is fragile. There are too many vacant storefronts, particularly at the east end. Take us back 2 years, though, to when the economy was booming, and there were no vacant storefronts on the east end of the Mall.
The Downtown Mall will never be a place for big department stores. Its niches now seem to be to house offices, banks and businesses that piggyback off of Charlottesville's status as the financial and legal hub of Central Virginia, to serve cultural attractions (Live Arts, the Paramount, the Pavilion, etc.), to serve tourists and the tourist trade, and to act as an incubator for small businesses getting their starts. Those are all legitimate niches that can support a healthy, attractive Downtown Charlottesville.
quote: "I will go out on a limb and even predict you have a cheesy mustache!"
I see you're back to your old and boring juvenile insults in this thread again.
Whiney fat guy with a cheesey mustache! LOL!!!
You must be a really unhappy person within.
But now that you bring the subject up, Cup Cake, yes. I have a mustache, and I have had it non-stop for 38 years. And I am thankful for it. Because the criminal I was falsely accused of being in 2004 was 80 pounds lighter, 35 years younger AND HAD NO MUSTACHE. All in all though, I appreciate your tax dollars that have so far paid me for my damages in this wrongful accusation.
In case you haven't noticed, you can't successfully insult or embarrass me. Why even keep trying?
Now, back to the mall. Enjoy it, you're paying dearly for it as well..... if you are even a city resident
As the owner of one of the businesses on the mall I can attest to the fact that any tax dollars spent on the mall are more than returned to the city coffers via meals and sales tax, not to mention the real estate taxes and business licence fees. Those of you who choose not to participate in the dining, shopping and entertainment that the mall offers, certainly have the right to avoid it, but please don't belittle those who enjoy and support it. I have customers from all over the world who are always impressed with what you consider a "glorified food court that offers little variation or value". Are we talking about the same mall - the one in Charlottesville?
So, are you one of the ones that thinks we should spend more money on roads so you can drive to WalMart and back in your SUV faster, or one of the ones that thinks Charlottesville was perfect in 1964 and we shouldn't spend money on anything that changes anything?
Well poo poo poo. Gasbag you seem pretty aware of who you are by your title. Why don't you hit 29 North and keep going. Thanks.
like it or not, the downtown mall is one of the focal points of the city. by improving the mall, the city is helping to attract and retain residents and businesses who value what the mall has to offer.
surely there are other goals towards which the city could spend this money (and hopefully this project will come in well under budget), but i'm not opposed to the beautification and expansion of one of the city's greatest assets.
quote: "Anyway you cut it, the downtown mall is cooler than a whiney fat guy chugging gas in a Van while snorting down $20 worth of 5 guys. Its not NYC, but it does have quite a bit on a great percentage of far larger cities."
Why all the juvenile insults in what should remain a civil discussion about taxpayer's money? While obesity is surely a national epidemic in this nation, I am not part of the equation yet. I could stand to lose perhaps 25 pounds, but I hope to never join the ranks of those in this area that are 100 to 200 pounds overweight.
So anyhow, I can only assume you agree that the above statement "...I’ve lived all over the world and all over the United States. Nothing comes close to Charlottesville/Albemarle County...." was quite an an exaggeration on the author's behalf?
And where does the $20 worth of Five Guys hamburgers come from? I made two distintcly different remarks above... 1) I occasionally pick up burgers for the office or the home, as in employees and family, and 2) I can not tell you the last time I have spent as much as $20.00 on the mall.
quote: "Does it matter if you were born and raised here”Šno”Šwe both live here now and we both get a say but it seems that you have 0 respect for the opinons of anyone but yourself."
Not true. I very clearly said above that people are free to roam the mall with the other 500 people, 35 homeless, 15 drunks, 25 panhandlers and the other assorted juvenile wanna be ganstas on any given Friday evening.
I also said, "the mall seems to carry a pretty high price to entertain this small list of people considering there’s 135,000 people in Charlottesville and Albemarle County."
As far as I am concerned, you need to go to the mall and support the businesses. Because I sure don't. It's that simple.
The fact that the Downtown Mall is one local public forum that's free of the incessant, overbearing presence of Sick, Steve, Gasbag, makes it pretty appealing to me!
Big difference between followers and people that roll their eyes at you. I will go out on a limb and even predict you have a cheesy mustache!
Great gift stores. Great bookstores. Music venues. Movie venues. Great niche places instead of the usual line up of indoor mall places. Craft beer, good food. Play pool. Dance. Buy organic free range meat, organic milk. Ice cream and gelato. Unique clothing stores. Custom glass making store. Wedding announcements. Baby clothing. Artwork. Hair cuts. etc etc.
Yeah, that sucks.
Oh, and its almost 99% locally owned.
cvillelaw- well, I was born in Albemarle, but I have spent most of my life not living in Charlottesville, and its times like this, that I wonder I decided to start putting down roots for future retirement.
I remember the downtown area in the 70s, and it was suffering because of the bad decision over Vinegar Hill, and the choice to build the projects right next door. Leggets was doing fine, as were some other old downtown stores. No, they might not have lasted forever, but...
It was unecessary, in my opinion, to brick over the road in any way to create a different environment. I mean, every time I went by in the 80's, it sure wasn't that great a place then. I question how many of those small businesses like the cat house were EVER tax payers, more like tax write offs by their owners. If they wanted to have a mall, they could have used the vacant ground already available, instead of brikcing over main street.
Cultural events are certainly legit business, though I would not group either the Pavillion or the Paramount into bastions of cultural success. Live Arts is different. The Pavillion is just one more failed taxpayer subsidy to private business, and has hurt the Belmont area. Why, the volume levels were so high the restaurants were complaining because it drive away patrons. What was NICE was a public park with Fridays After Five. The Paramount got a big tax break too, and other than the Met live Broadcasts, doesn't bring much affordable culture in as a way of rewarding taxpayers.
As far as financials, and law, I don;t see the Mall has having anything to do with them. The Mall is a glorified food court for a stale, uni-culture over priced group of restaurants that don't as a rule offer good value.
The fact is, if you want to talk tax revenues and property values, while I am not against taxpayer money to rebuild an area, I certainly think the Downtown Mall development has been a very poor bargain. From the Omni to the current Landmark Hotel fiasco, it is a series of myopic decisions to support a particular culture while ignoring others.
Just like it was done in Vinegar Hill.
And is now being done in Belmont.
quote: "Just to make things clear ââ?¬â? the Landmark Hotel was private enterprise. There is no government action involved in that."
We know that.
But are you at all familiar with the history of The Omni Hotel? Which of course was called The Radisson when the city stepped in and completed it.
Just to make things clear -- the Landmark Hotel was private enterprise. There is no government action involved in that. It is sitting where it is right now because two scorpions in a bottle are fighting, and because a now-insolvent bank was recruited to say that they would loan the money. Charlottesville City government has nothing to do with that fiasco. Given the relative track records, I would say that if it had been a City government project, it would probably be nearing completion right about now. You can fuss at City Hall for many things, but don't fuss at City Hall over that.
Perhaps you meant K-Mart? Walmart is in the county and is irrelevant when discussing how the city pisses away the taxpayer's money.
I have very few problems with the roadways in the city. It's one thing they almost seem to do right. The only complaint I can think of is manhole covers sitting an inch lower than the pavement. Quite a rough ride when driving a 8,000 pound SUV. I never have understood why this city can't get manhole covers right. I guess they cut corners on purchasing extension bands for the manhole covers so they have more to piss away on the mall bricks - now that you bring the subject up of course.
Back on topic though, I guess I am one of the ones who saw nothing wrong with the old aged bricks. And I do think the late 60s and early 70s when I came of age were perfect when speaking of the downtown area. You could drive downtown, find a parking spot right on Main Street or a side street, and shop. And your car wasn't broken into like they are now in the parking garages. I loved the pre-mall days of Main Street. And I therefore do not support any business or merchant on the mall by shopping with them. Other than a few burgers at Five Guys for the home or office occasionally, I can not tell you the last time I have spent as much as $20.00 on the mall.
"So, are you one of the ones that thinks we should spend more money on roads so you can drive to WalMart and back in your SUV faster, or one of the ones that thinks Charlottesville was perfect in 1964 and we shouldn’t spend money on anything that changes anything?"
The first one. Thanks for asking.
quote: "The fact that the Downtown Mall is one local public forum that’s free of the incessant, overbearing presence of Sick, Steve, Gasbag, makes it pretty appealing to me!"
You're welcome.
what would we do without that stupid waste of space called the downtown mall? hmmmm actually spend money on this we can use? like children education,police,fire,ems,all the things we actually NEED?! we dont need a "downtown mall" its just a road bricked over. who cares? sure its a landmark. but if it wasnt for the idiots who put it there in the first place,the hobo's would still be sitting around,just not laying around in the middle of a mall where over 50,000 people go on friday and saturday night. oh, and mabey if we didnt have the mall,the cville crime rate might be down my 85% :D
Awesome! GSOE writes: "Why all the juvenile insults in what should remain a civil discussion about taxpayer’s money?" in the post after he had written: "You’re free to roam the mall any time you desire. Along with the other 500 people, 35 homeless, 15 drunks, 25 panhandlers and the other assorted juvenile wanna be ganstas on any given Friday evening."
There's no secret here who drags the discussions below the level of "civil."
quote: "Mr./Mrs./Ms. Gasbag/Steve/Sick, don’t you spend most of your rant time railing against local police and their expenditures? Please do explain your sudden shift."
I preach about those who couldn't tell the truth if they were sitting on a pallet full of bibles. As I have said before, I can name a small handful that should be sitting in prison for perjury. Don't believe me? No problem. Within the next 12 months you will see two cops testify against a third cop that would rather lie than eat fried chicken. I'll post an invite when the time comes so you can sit on the front row during the jury trial of the lawsuit and watch.
quote: "There’s no secret here who drags the discussions below the level of civil."
When you and I are discussing anything here on The Hook, I have no business whatsoever calling you a "big ole fat hog" or an "ugly midtown prostitute". Just like Danpri has no business calling anybody a "fat whiney guy". Namecalling in discussions like this is just plain juvenile. And it's not even remotely the same as calling a drunk on the mall a drunk. Or calling somebody homeless or a panhandler. Wanna be gangstas isn't even an insult, it's just the plain truth.
I don't ever recall losing my temper here and calling participants in the discussions here silly juvenile names.
Gasbag, the times they are a changing. You sound like sour grapes all around. If Cville doesn't agree with you any more, I hear there are some economically depressed towns in the midwest that resemble Cville in the 70s; dead. The mall is unique. It is rare to find a space like that, even in big cities in America. We are in a national recession which is contributing to empty storefronts. That will change, and those storefronts will get filled. Five Guys and Urban Outfitters are only the beginning. Look for Starbucks, Gap, Pottery Barn, etc... and for the Mall and the Downtown to become the desired destination. Cheap gas is gone. Hummers are out. Downtown is in. The mall is the economic engine. Why are people afraid to use their real names on this site?
What would really be great for the mall would be to wrap paper around the manor mess up and let us all paint it. Why did that idiot destroy a perfectly good bank and replace it with stupied? There are other buildings on the mail that have ply wood on the windows! I feel like some money bag hand down is swacking me in the face every time I walk by. I feel like that domb SOB is giggling at me with a stupied grin and saying hay look how rich I thought I could be!
Can't the city fine him or something?