Hot air? Tea Party opposes sustainability agenda

Yep, the elite who own and control the government are managing to persuad a lot of idiots to accept enslavement in order to save the Earth. Of course, it's not to save the Earth, it's to make enslaving the human race easier to do, by appealing to the human race's base instincts, by using highly sophisticated propaganda (see "elaborate fraud") originating in ancient Babylon, developed over thousands of years, and used for thousands of years. Everything they do to shut down, carve up, and wolf down this nation's wealth is to save the Earth from humans. At least there are a few people around here who still have a functioning brain.

I wish the tea party folks would do something substantive to challenge the increasing costs of living in Charlottesville and Albemarle.

Soon our water and sewer bills will be more than our property taxes, but you never hear them challenge the big dam plan.

Why ?

Our water rates are already second highest in the state for cities our size and not a peep about building a $ 140 - 200 million dollar dam and pipeline we probably don't need . And not a peep about letting the best water supply reservoir we have fill with silt instead of dredging that first before spending a dime on all new infrastructure.

If they care about local decisions that are not sustainable --why not this ?

Please tea party folks explain this to the rest of us so we can understand if you walk the walk and if we want to follow you down the path of a lower cost, less environmentally damaging way to use our local resources and save local citizens real dollars.

Local Resident, I've peeped plenty about the HAARP and CHEMTRAIL AND AEROSOL SPRAYING WEATHER MODIFICATION THAT HAS BEEN DELIBERATELY CAUSING DROUGHTS AND FLOODS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD INCLUDING RIGHT HERE IN ALBEMARLE COUNTY, BUT NOT MANY FOLKS FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE THE POWER TO STOP THAT SO THEY TALK ABOUT DAMS AND TREES INSTEAD. I DO BELIEVE I HAVE THE POWER TO STOP WEATHER MODIFICATION IF I TRY HARD ENOUGH TO WAKE MY FELLOW AMERICANS UP TO IT AND RALLY THEM TO JOIN THE CAUSE TO DO SOMETHING PROACTIVE.

So... was John Walton Giuliano on the panel? I mean, the dude's conspiracy theories are about as credible as theirs.

One good example of this envrionmentalism run amok is the hassle that people seem to be going through to put a campground along the river in howardsville. albemarel joined in trying to preserve the bay and is trampling on landowners rights in the process. What possible harm can a hayfield tuned into a campground cause the th envrionemnt? People goiing to the bathroom outside? If the floodwaters ever come up that high there are MILLIONS of gallons a minute (that would be like flushing a toilet almost 550,000 times in a minute) and they are worrried about the contents of an outhouse contaminating the water?

Under current law if youi are within 500 feet of an intermittent STREAM you cannot pave your driveway because youi cannot create an "impervious" surface. The problem is an intermittenst stream is the ditch in front of most houses. The law is on the books but not enforced YET. So be very careful how far you go joining these Federal programs that tempt you with money to circumvent the Constituion. Once you take it the fine print says if you change your mind you must give it ALL back. (even 20 years later)

"We could have gas for sixty cents a gallon at the pump and it would come entirely from America and it wouldn't do a goddamn thing to warm the Earth."

Wrong: http://www.eia.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/aeo_2009analysispapers/aongr.html

Wrong: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7191 (take your pick)

Wrong: http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2010/02/17/205516/an-illustrated-guide-to-...

I mean, just wrong. As are the talking points offered up by the JATP. Publicly costly opportunism disguised as public concern.

Thank goodness some people are catching on!

catching on to that buffet train woooooo wooooooooo!

What's the value in joking about her weight?

Bill, we are all interconnected. Your driveway next to a stream will put oil and grease from your car in my part of the stream downriver. Environmentalism is hardly running amok. On the contrary, the few gains that have been made in the past decades are threatened by short-sighted, willfully ignorant people who think they can keep consuming resources with no consequences. I just don't know where to begin . . . their--and your--arguments are so poorly reasoned and without evidence.

For a year or so I generously gave this Carol Thorpe thing the benefit of my doubt,--that somewhere, deeply hidden beneath all that...cliche, misthought, Palin-speak, was some genuine or sincere desire to help our county and this locale.
No more. With this "elaborate fraud" crap, she proves herself not an exception, but an example of the t.p. rule we must accept and ACT on; thye all are not worthy of participation in our democracy. We must stamp them out, prove them wrong, talk down to them, to the point of holding up large charts and DEMANDING that they explain themselves, rather than continue to allow them their voice, belittling this democracy, attracting attention by placating the clueless and ignorant, and using their celebrity and attention to fire false resentment and anger. She's the fraud. Her TYPE are the enemy, costing us big-time.
Go away, Carole. You're done here.

Oh, and who the heck thinks they can use the name, Bill Marshall" in lower case?
Speak up, "environmentalism run amok," you dolt.

“Mankind’s contribution can only be so tiny as to not be detected.”

I wonder if she's ever seen a picture of the Earth at night from space? Mankind's contribution is certainly detectable.

Besides, who cares if global warming is real or not? What's wrong with taking better care of the planet we live on? Why is that not an admirable goal regardless of the "truth" of global warming?

Also, when are the teabaggers going to sack up and pull all of their kids out of our socialistic, government run public schools? I'm sick of dealing with their children's ignorance.

Maybe if she was thin enough to actually move around in nature and experience the beauty of Earth she would appreciate it more.

/deleted by moderator :-)

You're on the right track, C-ville Delight. In fact, why stop at pulling your money out of schools? Take every dime of your "unfair" tax dollars and go start another country. Pleeeaaase. You are extremists -- the worst possible kind. Since you find so much WRONG with our "government" right now, why don't you just leave? You all are too delusional to realize that you are a MINORITY. A nasty and spiteful MINORITY.

Moderates like me (that's right, I am NOT a liberal) do not want you here anymore.

Have a nice day and let me know if you need any help packing.

Yeah, Nick, I must be wrong about this country having more oil and more Sweet Crude on tap than any other country in the world, cause that would really suck if I was right and we gave it all up for a damned lie. Lindsay Williams must have been wrong about Ken Fromm and the big oil companies getting together to classify all the oil in Montana, the Dakotas, and Prudhoe Bay back in the 1970's. Seas upon seas of oil, which they discovered, drilled, tapped, shut down completely, and then classified. Then they agreed to buy oil from the Sauds in exchange for them buying our debt with the plan to double cross them once oil has hit a mega-high and then open up the seas we've been sitting on while we anorexically starve ourselves for oil for thirty five years. By the way, there's no such thing as fossil fuels. Just another lie the elite made up to go along with the artificial scarcity peak oil scam. Oil doesn't come from dinosaurs, it seeps up from the mantle where the methane is under extreme pressure and forms hydrocarbons, it's always seeping up, it's renewable, we're sitting on literal seas of it. But just imagine what kind of self-preserving genius-created propaganda you could purchase from think tanks, just imagine the media congolmorates you could buy to push that bull if you, like John "competition is a sin" D. Rockefeller, managed to take control of something about as scarce as water and tricked people into paying five dollars a gallon for it. No, Nick, you're the one who's wrong, mistaken, incorrect, misled, brainwashed, take your pick, I'm still rooting for you to wake up someday soon!

"We (Tea Party Patriots) need to just pull our money out, then you goverment union bums will have to work for a living"

This perspective is born directly from a misunderstanding about how money flows in our economy. You (presumably) work in the private sector, I work in the public sector. You earn money from all other sorts of people (maybe even me!), and the money that you earn (money from private-private or public-private transactions) goes into investments, savings, purchases at prices that you are willing to pay, and taxes. The money that I earn (transfers from the public sector in amounts representing the value of the collective services and goods that I produce) goes into investments, savings, purchases at prices that I am willing to pay, and taxes.

Now, this would not make sense if you don't understand (1) that there actually *are* goods and services that are public in nature--i.e., they won't be supplied, or will be under-supplied, by the private sector--and (2) that those goods and services need to be paid for through taxes (look up the "free-rider problem"). You are more than welcome to debate whether or not, say, education should be privatized, but stop assuming that the only "production," the only "work" being done is in the private sector.

The basic elite viewpoint is that it's OK to lie to people about man made global warming because it's an essential part of a control structure that in their view is essential to protecting the environment. Having people believe in sustainability makes it easier to control their population through poverty and destruction of prosperity through deindustrialization, which stupid people will put up with if they believe it's essential to save the earth. And it's not hard to make them stupid with the shots and the gmo and the fluoride, I believe it was Bertrand Russell who said "through diet, injections and injunctions we will make a revolt of the proles against the oligarchs as unthinkable as a revolt of sheep against the practice of eating mutton". The folks at the top pushing sustainability are doing it to allow land grabbing, monopolizing, and subjugation of the population by many incremental baby steps, which if taken at the right times are never enough to cause outright revolt, whereas if more than a few were taken at once we'd all be marching on the capitol. They're also the ones pushing gmo which threatens the entire genetic integrity of all life on earth. They're also the ones spraying deadly aluminum and barium particulates into the atmosphere and ordering the use of depleted uranium. They don't care about the environment they care about power and full spectrum dominance.

Thank you, Old Timer.

I have often said to my neighbor, who constantly gripes about "all the taxes he pays" (which are comparatively LOW to other countries I have visited and lived in), that he should use his OWN money to build the road leading up to his house. He should also use his OWN money to get his mail delivered, and his OWN money to send his kids to school at $7k per year apiece (pretty cheap compared to private I might add). And if his house catches fire, he needs to put it out himself for gosh sakes.

What the Tea Party really represents is the inability to share and work in cooperation. See, that makes them paranoid, as the sustainability issue clearly illustrates. Remember the kids in the sandbox who didn't want to share? Yep, folks. This is what they look like all grown up.

I wish Palin would come down here and remind people how Jack Jouett warned the British that Jefferson was armed and had guns and that Jefferson wouldn't be given up his guns cause Jefferson was for gun rights..

Caroline, if I say I'm not a professional scientist, does that mean you won't bow down to me and and lick my boots? What if I said I was a professional con artist? Would you believe me?

None of us would ever had heard of Thomas Jefferson had he chosen not to enslave over six hundred negroe men, women, and children. It was because he enslaved all those human beings that he had the time to write all those wonderful declarations of freedom and proclamations of liberty.

Way to stay on the topic as usual, Giuliano!

Google it?

Seriously?

Oh man....no, no. You seem not to understand the protocol for proving or disproving scientific theorem. You put forth comment on the nonexistence of fossil fuels. In response I asked you to provide supporting information for those comments.

I am waiting for that information, John. You can cite specific studies and articles or provide links. Your choice.

I have no problem with incessant babbling as long as there is some fact behind it.

Still waiting...

LOL. There are some NUTS in here.

Caroline, it seems like you believe I have just blasphemed the Most High by questioning the existence of fossil fuels and that speaks more to what I'm trying to say than any website I could pull up in ten seconds. I already explained it. Methane is a gas, except deep down in the mantle under extreme pressure where it stays liquid despite being very hot so it chemically bonds with the other elements down there and when pushed up by heat it stays gooey instead of evaporating right away. It's not rocket science, I shouldn't even have to explain it it's so elementary.

I was just a lone nut once.

"Caroline, you don't want to know more, you're not asking me for the info in hopes of learning, you're asking in hopes of being offered an opportunity to further discredit it. I know the game, I'm not playing that one today. Use startpage if you don't like google." ~ John Walton Giuliano

Translation: "I don't really have any facts to back up what I'm saying. I am too big of a coward to admit that I don't really have any reasonable information, therefore I will retreat to the comfort of my keyboard and continue to spout off incessant nonsense."

Please seek the help that you need. And while you're in there maybe take a science class or two?

Sheesh. Why did I waste any time on this?

What part don't you believe is factual about it being hot down in the mantle of the earth, there being lots of pressure from the interaction of heat and rock, that gasses can remain liquids even at extremely hot temperatures if there is extreme pressure, that hot liquids dissolve things and when they do the structure of the liquid changes also. These are all facts. Methane does indeed stay liquid way down deep, it is indeed hot enough to dissolve minerals, it does indeed remain liquid when the pressure drops after heat pushes it towards the surface due to the bonding to metals and other elements, and we do have renewable oil thanks to that process. Imagine how dumb you'd feel if you admitted that.

All you are describing is the process by which methane forms. Big f'ing deal. Are you saying that we should turn exclusively to methane for our fuel needs?

Further searching leads to believe he is talking about abiotic petroleum origin which has been debunked since the 50's. Here's the wikipedia article but more thorough, scientific information can be found by searching Google Scholar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

Let's just say he is talking methane. You don't have to "Google" very far to see why this option is not being chosen as a primary source for our energy needs.

Oh. Why did I spend so much time on this today? I have no personal grudge against any member of any affiliated party (or unaffiliated party). Let's say for a moment that global warming is a scam and we will never run out of fuel.

As far as the sustainability issue in Albemarle, efforts thus far using the information garnered from ICLEI (and many, many, many other sources) as part of the Cool Counties initiative have saved the community an estimated $400,000 in just a few years. I fail to see the controversy in THAT.

I tell you what, I feel kind of sorry for Boyd. He has hitched his wagon to the wrong star with this one. Not a particularly intelligent political move, as the national landscape has already shown us.

Because they don't really want to solve problems, they want to create hysteria. Solving problems requires thought, research and ultimately, perhaps - compromise. That is NOT what this "party" is about.

Look at the Tea Party at the national level. Other than propagate fear-inducing buzzwords and anti-government soundbites, what have they actually DONE??

Nothing. Not. One. Thing.

The tea party is for idiots, self destructive idiots.

"It wasn't Republicans who did all of this. It was the Tea Party." ~ Feet to the Fire

So....Tea Party members aren't Republicans? Great, then they should run on their own ticket and not on the coattails of an existing party.

I say go for it. See you in 2012. :-)

http://www.infowars.com/articles/science_technology/fossil_fuel_theory_t....
Took me less than ten seconds for this one.

Another whole ten seconds. http://www.prisonplanet.com/salon-everything-youve-heard-about-fossil-fu.... Now go on and tell me this one isn't a NASA study, and I'll just refer you to the NASA study.

You'll never believe it, but here's anotherhttp://www.infowars.com/articles/economy/peak_oil_index.htm

Oh, so now CIA run wikipedia is the definitive source. That took me one second to come up with, Caroline.

Why won't any tea party supporter answer my question please ?

I am looking for involvement of these people in real issues in our community . I thought that's what they were upset about - making the agenda all about global issues that our elected officials have no control about.

How about trying to stop the dam plan and fight to dredge our reservoir. Now that would save us money and resources .

Tell us where you stand on that issue, and please - hold the slogans and sound bites.

As evidenced by the comments from Carole Thorpe and John Munchmeyer (who terms himself a "Libertarian"), the Tea Party folks are simply the contemporary Know-Nothings. Their ignorance, their misrepresentations, and their lack of credibility are palpable.

The “elaborate fraud” cited by Thorpe is not global warming (which is quite real and getting worse), but the Tea Party itself, and those who fund it for their own nefarious purposes.

The Tea Partyers are "conservatives," or maybe they're just conservative hypocrites. And conservatives today, mostly Republicans, keep insisting on their own fantasy-version of reality, which has proved economically and socially disastrous for the country. Ninety percent of the current national debt was incurred under conservative presidents pursuing supply-side economic policies that enriched the already-rich, squeezed the middle class, and increased poverty. Those who now tote the Tea Party label supported those presidents and policies...and now they want to blame somebody else for it. They refuse to acknowledge any information that doesn't fit their narrow, twisted ideology. They mislead, they distort, and they blatantly lie.

They get their "news" from Fox, a network that is "a giant soundstage created to mimic the look and feel of a news operation, cleverly camouflaging political propaganda as independent journalism...a study by the University of Maryland reveals, ignorance of Fox viewers actually increases the longer they watch the network." One doesn't need to listen to Carole Thorpe for very long to discern the truth of that University of Maryland study.

Their so-called "leaders" (Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck) incite fear and paranoia, and display a remarkable disdain for historical and scientific knowledge. As an editor for the conservative National Review explained it, conservatism “has undergone a shift toward demagoguery and hucksterism and is now ruled by those he called “the crazy-cons.”

For more on how conservatism has morphed into crazy-ism, read "CONFOUNDING FATHERS, The Tea Party’s Cold War roots," by historian Sean Wilentz:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/10/18/101018fa_fact_wilentz#ixzz...

It's unfortunate that the Tea Party has strayed from its focus on deficit spending, the national debt, etc. in order to embrace some pretty extreme conspiracy theories about ICLEI, sustainability, etc. Having said that, the personal remarks on this forum about Ms. Thorpe are disgusting and serve no purpose other than to undermine the credibility of those making them. We can disagree without being so disagreeable.

Caroline or ron
Do you agree with the way this partisan "health care law” was passed? Do you agree with the wavers that have been given by the o administration? Do you agree with the dems in Mass that created a law so when Romney moved on he could not appoint a successor, but when kenedy passed the dems passed a law so the dem gov could appoint,(for the 51st vote on the above mentioned law). Stupak said after the passage “this wasn’t about health care this was about reparations" these are just a few examples of how dishonest the democratic/progressive party has become, do you agree with that?
Just answers please

@DaveNorris: It's the new civility of the left.

Ha! Sorry it was over your head, C-ville delight. I answered your questions. Perhaps you are just not bright enough to see that. But I'm not all that surprised. Try reading it again...sloooowwwwlly. There ya go! Keep working at it. Maybe have a friend help you interpret. See, the answer's right in there!

Jah, got to give you a hat tip for that response. My thoughts exactly. It's easy to say what the Tea Party has done without deliberating on the value of its accomplishments. Anyone want to debate the economics of cap and trade and single payer? Anyone want to explain why you hate Nancy Pelosi so much? Anyone want to explain why the Dream Act is unAmerican? Anyone want to discuss who is to blame for our current budget woes, and debate targeting unemployment vs. short-term federal deficit spending?

It would seem that someone on this comments board has been divulging all of out secrets. The government mind-control experts have been notified, and the black helicopters are on their way. Bwah-hah-hah-hah-hah...

DaveNorris - if thats who you are,

I tend to dislike ad hominem attacks, as you are suggesting, but there are times when our personal choices stand out in such dramatic conflict with what we say we believe. For all that the TP likes to claim its about freedom from government and taking personal responsibility, interviews demonstrate they are all about living off of things like medicare, medicaid, SSI, and a number of other taxpayer subsidized programs. IOW, they are only too happy to be subsidized by others. They just resent paying for programs that might benefit people that don't look like them. It's only minorities that get 'welfare'. Whatever they have can't possibly be 'welfare', or socialism.

Unfortunately, Mrs Thorpe's figure suggests individual life choices that might be in conflict with TP values. After all, anyone who is on her group health care policy is subsidizing her lifestyle. I doubt she could get an individual policy these days, were it not for Obama's healthcare act, though the price she pays would be very high. Of course, were she to step up and be a real Libertarian, and say she doesn't believe in health insurance at all - as it is socialized medicine run for profit - and that she was willing to pay for all her health care costs out of her own pocket, she might get an entirely different reaction.

Or perhaps, the TP just needs to choose folks that really live their claimed lifestyle as representatives.

Efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions provide numerous other benefits, such as reducing electric bills, providing more transportation options, and saving money for County taxpayers. With so many benefits, common-sense dictates that the Albemarle Board of Supervisors pursue the Cool Counties pledge.

Please quit being so reasonable, Dolce! ;-)

You are articulating exactly what this is about. There has already been a measured $400,000 in savings under the Cool Counties initiative which (surprise!) was implemented at the local level by local officials, local businesses and local citizens.

Funny...I don't remember a bunch of international hooded ICLEI officials sneaking down here under cover of darkness with their crazy ideas about running less laundry and washing cars a bit less often.

Paranoia, the destroyer.

Since the answers to those questions have already been presented to the County, why don't you give them a ring and ask for the report on the savings realized to date by participation in Cool Counties? Both U.Va. and the City also have these reports.

Simple measures like changing the roof material used at the county building have meant that a) carbon emissions have been reduced (see, electricity emits CO2) and b) their electric bills have been reduced (you can call and ask for this information, it is public). And guess what? That means county residents pay less in taxes for those utilities! Private businesses have also adopted these measures.

It's really simply stuff, honestly. Nothing to be afraid of. As far as reducing transportation costs, it's too much to type here.

READ. THE. REPORT.

1) white roofs are cooler in summer and cooler in winter.. the net savings is not as dramatic as you think... now flipflop roof of black to white might be worth looking into..

2) If you are not afarid of the federal governments reach (democrat or republican) you need to read more...

http://reason.com/blog/2011/06/08/no-really-swat-team-raids-hous

...and who said anything about "white rooftops"? I simply said they changed their roof material:

http://www.greenroofs.com/projects/pview.php?id=650

C'mon guys. Read a little bit about what is ACTUALLY happening versus what the hysteria has led you to believe. Decide for yourselves.

And just so I put my money where my mouth is...I think the county might have done their roof before signing onto Cool Counties.

State Farm Insurance did their green roof afterward, in tandem with the Cool Counties initiative.

Public-private collaboration and common sense. What a wonderful world this could be.

The community has already realized almost $1/2 million in savings here. What part of that don't you get?

I know you don't read, but how about doing the math?

Dave Norris: John Walton Guiliano is making good points. His links to Alex Jones' site provide a window into a much better guide to a present world crisis than anything that the mainstream media or political mafia parties might provide. Why? Because we are living through the completion of the transformation of the Republic and the world at large by the barely veiled criminal plutocrat elite, by means of false flag, black ops and an still unfolding sequel to their 9/11 masterpiece in terms of an economic war on humanity at large with all manner of democracy and sustainability slogans. Take a good look at the conventional explanations for why we have been forcibly bankrupted by the War of Terror or for the Federal Reserve policy or Wall Street's crushing hegemony over the real economy and you find a cavalcade of lies.

Our choice, if we are to be informed sufficiently such that we might survive the ongoing controlled disintegration of civilization at large: rejection of mainstream media and parties and the embrace of alternative media and parties for the truth about weather modification, weather warfare, chemtrails, the danger of fluoridation, vaccinations, and much of conventional medicene in general, biowarfare - to include the recent German e coli outbreak, HAARP and exotic weaponry, the planned North American Union, the coming cashless society, the emerging police state here in the USA, and the reality that the elite meet in secret [Bilderberger Group, Trilateral Commission] and have major plans for eliminating the present nation-state system and setting up global rule of ten regional unions.

ICLEI is a useful tool to help Albemarle County determine what’s driving our greenhouse gas emissions and energy use locally. It also helps us learn about emissions-reduction strategies that other communities are using - gain information without reinventing the wheel.

Canceling our inexpensive membership will only handicap the County’s ability to achieve its emissions-reduction goals and will not provide anything in return.

Let's embrace the future - and clean up for our children - without too much sacrifice. Seems so reasonable to me. Maybe that's the problem?

@Albedelight???:

No. I would never call myself a "Tea Party Patriot." Ugh.

Earth's Changing Climate: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=1219

A series of lectures on the science by a wellj-educated science educator. The lectures are fascinating - look for the audio CD discs at your local public (tax-supported) library for "free" or purchase/download it for $19.95. Get educated on the topic - don't "google" or depend on sound bites - learn about it so you can vote in an informed manner.

I just hope that whatever people do, they proceed as informed - not paranoid. Some of the comments made at county meetings are just unbelievable. The misinformation and fear out there is what's REALLY the frightening thing.

and some of us have seen firsthand how crazy government regulations can get...

Charlottesville is inthe Chesapeake Bay watershed... under current LAW you are not allowed to even build a sidwalk with 500 feet of an "intermittent stream" (ie a drainage ditch that funnels rainwater into a creek)(even a mile away) without an Envrionmental Impact study. Charlottesville chooses not to enforce the LAW but it is there and at some point some nut job will sue the city to force them to enforce the law and YOUR life will be directly affected. So the sidewalk will cost 400 dollars and the study will cost 1000. That is the tip of the iceberg.

Under current LAW if you have an accident that spills more than two gallons of any petroleum based product in a car accident it is considered hazardous material and in DC and Fairfax they will call the Hazardous Response team and send you a bill.

The Federal government is too powerful because they get localities addicted with grants and then make them do what THEY want.

"The common enemy of humanity is man.
In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these
dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through
changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.
The real enemy then, is humanity itself."
- Club of Rome,
premier environmental think-tank,
consultants to the United Nations

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We need to get some broad based support,
to capture the public's imagination...
So we have to offer up scary scenarios,
make simplified, dramatic statements
and make little mention of any doubts...
Each of us has to decide what the right balance
is between being effective and being honest."
- Prof. Stephen Schneider,
Stanford Professor of Climatology,
lead author of many IPCC reports

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We've got to ride this global warming issue.
Even if the theory of global warming is wrong,
we will be doing the right thing in terms of
economic and environmental policy."
- Timothy Wirth,
President of the UN Foundation

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"No matter if the science of global warming is all phony...
climate change provides the greatest opportunity to
bring about justice and equality in the world."
- Christine Stewart,
former Canadian Minister of the Environment

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The data doesn't matter. We're not basing our recommendations
on the data. We're basing them on the climate models.”
- Prof. Chris Folland,
Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The models are convenient fictions
that provide something very useful.”
- Dr David Frame,
climate modeler, Oxford University

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I believe it is appropriate to have an 'over-representation' of the facts
on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience."
- Al Gore,
Climate Change activist

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It doesn't matter what is true,
it only matters what people believe is true."
- Paul Watson,
co-founder of Greenpeace

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Unless we announce disasters no one will listen."
- Sir John Houghton,
first chairman of IPCC

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The only way to get our society to truly change is to
frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe."
- emeritus professor Daniel Botkin

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The climate crisis is not a political issue, it is a moral and
spiritual challenge to all of humanity. It is also our greatest
opportunity to lift Global Consciousness to a higher level."
- Al Gore,
Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We are on the verge of a global transformation.
All we need is the right major crisis..."
- David Rockefeller,
Club of Rome executive member

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Humanity is sitting on a time bomb. If the vast majority of the
world's scientists are right, we have just ten years to avert a
major catastrophe that could send our entire planet's climate system
into a tail-spin of epic destruction involving extreme weather, floods,
droughts, epidemics and killer heat waves beyond anything we have
ever experienced - a catastrophe of our own making."
- Al Gore,
An Inconvenient Truth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We are getting close to catastrophic tipping points,
despite the fact that most people barely notice the warming yet."
- Dr James Hansen,
NASA researcher

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"By the end of this century climate change will reduce the human
population to a few breeding pairs surviving near the Arctic."
- Sir James Lovelock,
Revenge of Gaia

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Climate Change will result in a catastrophic global sea level
rise of seven meters. That's bye-bye most of Bangladesh,
Netherlands, Florida and would make London the new Atlantis."
- Greenpeace International

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"This planet is on course for a catastrophe.
The existence of Life itself is at stake."
- Dr Tim Flannery,
Principal Research Scientist

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Coal makes us sick. Oil makes us sick. It's global warming.
It's ruining our country. It's ruining our world."
- Harry Reid,
U.S. Senate majority leader

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Climate Change is the greatest threat that
human civilization has ever faced."
- Angela Merkel,
German Chancellor

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Climate change is real. Not only is it real, it's here,
and its effects are giving rise to a frighteningly new
global phenomenon: the man-made natural disaster."
- Barack Obama,
US President

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We simply must do everything we can in our power to
slow down global warming before it is too late."
- Arnold Schwarzenegger,
Governor of California

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Climate change should be seen as the
greatest challenge to ever face mankind."
- Prince Charles

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Climate change makes us all global citizens,
we are truly all in this together."
- Gordon Brown,
British Prime Minister

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We have reached the critical moment of decision on climate change.
Failure to act to now would be deeply and unforgivably irresponsible.
We urgently require a global environmental revolution."
- Tony Blair,
former British PM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We are close to a time when all of humankind
will envision a global agenda that encompasses
a kind of Global Marshall Plan to address the
causes of poverty and suffering and
environmental destruction all over the earth."
- Al Gore,
Earth in the Balance

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"In Nature organic growth proceeds according
to a Master Plan, a Blueprint. Such a ‘master plan’ is
missing from the process of growth and development of
the world system. Now is the time to draw up a master plan for
sustainable growth and world development based on global
allocation of all resources and a new global economic system.
Ten or twenty years form today it will probably be too late."
- Club of Rome,
Mankind at the Turning Point

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We need a new paradigm of development in
which the environment will be a priority.
World civilization as we know it will soon end.
We have very little time and we must act.
If we can address the environmental problem,
it will have to be done within a new system, a
new paradigm. We have to change our mindset,
the way humankind views the world."
- Mikhail Gorbachev,
founder of Green Cross International

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable,
indeed a sacred principle of international relations.
It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to
the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation."
- UN Commission on Global Governance report

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and
it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely.
Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well
suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature
of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected
representatives to make competent decisions at the right time."
- Club of Rome,
The First Global Revolution

Bill Marshall, how about some links so we can read the laws that you claim require environmental impact studies for sidewalk construction?

@Feet to the Fire I haven't seen anyone ask for an explanation of Ms. Thorpe's physical condition. One issue that has been raised given her physical condition is that it may be reason to suspect that she holds some hypocritical positions regarding what role government ought to play in the lives of citizens. I and others suspect and attitude of "the government is bad except when it subsidizes my particular needs." Read this and see if there aren't some indications that might be the case. http://readthehook.com/86364/hotseat-lead-role-carole-thorpe-stars-t...

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/features/green/2011/05/lawn_fertilizer_l...

http://www.whsv.com/news/headlines/78223417.html

http://www.yorkcounty.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=6273

The last link is about requirements to build in the watershed. There are two important points in this one. 1) the cost of compliance (and the fine for non compliance and 2) The definition of the "watershed" The EPA definition is any water that begins in an intermittent stream (drainage ditch) that can ultimatley end up in the Bay falls under their watershed. So if water runs off a lot on High street into a ditch that flows into a stream that hits the rivanna that hits the James that hits the Bay the rules apply to you. That means that YOU cannot pur a patio or add an addition until you get a stormwater management study done. The rules are there go to Va Department of Envrilmental Quality and read it for yourself.
The Government has the power they are just not enforcing it here. (yet)

We all want a Clean Bay but onerus rules that cost millions are not the way to go. When the rules got to crazy in DC they caught industrial polluters dumping in the middle of the night because with the rules in place the Haulers quadrupled the price lof having it disposed of.

Any body shop owners out there?

Short sightedness, can't see past my nose thinking at it's pinnacle. We are so fortunate to have such a beautiful land to live in. Have you never traveled to areas that have been overpopulated; or where the destruction of the natural environment have stripped the land of it's vitality? It is a heart wrenching sight to see what has happened to the quality of life for the people in those places.

As an analogy, think of how life threatening it is for a person to suffer severe burns on his skin, and then look at what the human race is doing to the skin of the planet. Unlike in my childhood, we have the cameras now, we can see it. How can you minimize the negative effects human beings are having on our environment? Through the ages there have been great natural swings of environmental conditions, some have hurt us and some have helped. Why would you want to throw your weight in on the negative side? I think it is a choice that will serve to destroy the future for our grandchildren.

@Peter Weems - I like your "burned skin" analogy - interesting way to think of it. Thank you for speaking up. Nice showing of community involvement last night. Those of us who choose to live in the most beautiful place on earth have a responsibility to protect and care for it.

here is an example of government power gone too far...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/08/chicago-district-attorney-recor...

Bill Marshal I'm still wondering where you read the laws that you claim require environmental impact studies for sidewalk construction? Of the three links you responded with, two have nothing at all to do with sidewalks or even construction and the other doesn't have anything to do with watersheds as you've claimed EPA define them.

The heading the top of the page which your third link points to, which you may have missed since they helpfully placed it at the top of the page in bold all caps, says "CHESAPEAKE BAY PRESERVATION AREAS."

That section specifies requirements for building within or adjacent to RPAs or Resource Protection Areas which are defined elsewhere in the code (copied below) and which comprise only a fraction of the county. Even within the areas to which it applies, it says nothing even remotely like what you've claimed.

Would you like to try again and provide some links that show that some law in place to protect the Chesapeake Bay requires environmental impact studies for sidewalk construction within 500 feet of an intermittent stream?

--------
"Resource Protection Area (RPA). That component of the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Area comprised of tidal wetlands; nontidal wetlands connected by surface flow and contiguous to tidal wetlands or water bodies with perennial flow; tidal shores; and a vegetated buffer not less than 100-feet in width located adjacent to and landward of the components listed above and along both sides of any water body with perennial flow."
http://www.yorkcounty.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=6268

And by number one I mean the number of listeners, not my opinion of what's the best show, although it is the best source for information about government corruption and the elite agenda bar none. That's why Fox has people like Beck who give you 90 percent truth and then when it really matters give you complete bull. They'll die out and lose their last listeners to the internet if they don't at least try to give some semblance of credibility.

The DBKP Report has listed Infowars.com as the top alternative news and information website in its February, 2011, 80 Alternative News-Information ratings report. DBKP bases its ratings on 3-month average of Alexa worldwide traffic rankings. In other words, THE NUMBER ONE ALTERNATIVE NEWS WEBSITE IN THE WORLD! THE WOORRRRLLLD, I TELL YOU!!!

from Bethesda Md:
http://permittingservices.montgomerycountymd.gov/dpstmpl.asp?url=/permit...

From the Va DEQ web site:
Who Must Apply for Permit Coverage to Discharge Stormwater from a Construction Activity?

•Operators of construction activities resulting in land disturbance equal to or greater than one acre.
•Operators of construction activities resulting in land disturbance equal to or greater than 2,500 square feet and less than one acre within areas designated as subject to the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act.

here is the link to the site:

http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/stormwater_management/vsmp.shtml

and Va law...

http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/stormwater_management/documents/vaswmregs.pdf

The point is the intrusion is severe and will only get worse if not kept in check. That is all these folks are trying to point out.

Regulation is nessasary but overregulation will bankrupt us as a nation.

"•Operators of construction activities resulting in land disturbance equal to or greater than one acre.'

An acre is 43560 square feet. An acre of sidewalk would be 8712 feet long at 5 feet wide that's 1.65 miles of sidewalk before a permit would be required according o the information you've supplied.

"•Operators of construction activities resulting in land disturbance equal to or greater than 2,500 square feet and less than one acre within areas designated as subject to the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act."

"Chesapeake Bay Preservation Area" means an area delineated by a local government in accordance with criteria established pursuant to § 10.1-2107. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+10.1-2101

That is a limited area, again nothing like what you've claimed above. Do you ever read the stuff that you link to?

Would you like to try one more time and provide some links that show that some law in place to protect the Chesapeake Bay requires environmental impact studies for sidewalk construction within 500 feet of an intermittent stream?

I also get "my ideas" from reading quotes like the ones I posted. It's called connecting the dots. It's not a theory, it's a pattern.

JWG, it really comes as no surprise that you get your "ideas" from stringing together unrelated fragments mishmashed together with no thought given to their original context or actual meaning.

Your comment about connecting the dots to find a pattern reminds me of a friend telling me he could see patterns in the static on a TV screen. He was on powerful hallucinogens at the time. I think I may see where you're coming from now.

The context is using global warming fraud to take over the world's economies and putting them under a U.N. government. They admit it's fraud and they admit that they're using it for what they see as a greater good, namely reducing the world's population and getting rich in the meantime. When read as a group the quotes show a clear pattern of in your face outright fraud and deception to gain power. But you can't admit the obvious because if you did you'd feel the need to do what I'm doing or something similar to wake people up and that would put you between a rock and a hard place socially.

Albemarle Responsible Citizens Alliance......
This is another one of these sustainable environment groups. They have an unrealistic utopian view of the world that conflicts starkly with reality. If these people have their way, you will find yourself one day unable to do anything with your property without government involvement. The woman is quoted as saying the tea party may be too radical to put forth any resistance. The fact is that these groups are the definition of radical.
There mission statement sounds warm and fuzzy, but their actual goals include population control...Google that and you will find some shocking facts about groups like this...

Population Control?
A local group called ASAP (Advocates for a Sustainable Albemarle Population) are financed in part by another foundation in Pittsburg called the Colcom Foundation (read their mission statement, it’s a sobering thought). They are pushing population control though limiting growth in our community, among other things. They believe that the population in our area could already be unsustainable. They see a certain number of people in our area to be optimal for our environment, and champion the idea of capping population growth to achieve this lofty goal. There have been groups like this one in America and abroad since the turn of the last century. In fact in the thirties these groups were openly called eugenicists. They shared information and ideology with similar groups around the world. Google Huxley. After the atrocities of the eugenics movement in Nazi Germany were exposed to the world, these groups went underground and resurfaced as environmental or sustainability movements. Sounds great until you start asking questions, questions like what happens to the building industry when we reach this groups perceived limit on buildings and houses? What happens to all of the industries that support the building industry in our community and the livelihoods of those employed in these industries? Who are the lucky ones this group will choose to be a part of their sustainable communities?
How does a group of people get so full of themselves that they think they are entitled to something as basic as housing, and others are not?
Some of my most important questions to the people involved in these foundations are…How do you intend to reduce our population? After you have effectively shut down progress, what’s next? Will having more than two children in this future society be looked down upon? In many circles today it already is. These movements have gotten their tentacles into state legislations around the country. I urge any who read this to research “eugenics in America” and give some deep thought to the ramifications of some people’s idea of a sustained community. I am a good shepard of my land, and I see allot of damage being done unnecessarily to the environment. But I am here to tell you that there is a radical element to many of these groups when you go beyond scratching the surface and dig a little deeper. Yes, we should be good Sheppard’s of this beautiful piece of Earth we inhabit, but not at the cost of the livelihoods of thousands who live and work here.

here is something else from the albemarle county website

http://www.albemarle.org/upload/images/Forms_Center/Departments/Communit...

From the VA stormwater managment handbook:
A. Any locality located within Tidewater Virginia as defined by the Chesapeake Bay
Preservation Act (§ 10.1-2100 et seq.), or any locality that is partially or wholly
designated as required to obtain coverage under an MS4 permit under the provisions of
the federal Clean Water Act, shall be required to adopt a local stormwater management
program for land disturbing activities consistent with the provisions of this article......

from the same book:

7. Require that stormwater management programs maintain after-development
runoff rate of flow and characteristics that replicate, as nearly as practicable, the existing
predevelopment runoff characteristics and site hydrology, or improve upon the
contributing share of the existing predevelopment runoff characteristics and site
hydrology........

It sounds to me like you can't create an "impervious surface" without a permit. (or with one for that matter)

And you are all artists...

another example og government overeach

All new cars are REQUIRED to have tire pressure monitoring systems so we save fuel. Except the sensors are between 100 and 200 dollars PER WHEEL and break all the time, especially when the tires are mounted and dismounted. Because they are REQUIRED the makers make them flimsy so they WILL break.

So a set of sensors cost more than the tires.. 800 dollars worth of sensors so you are alerted that you might be losing 1/2 mile to the gallon . So we are saving some fossil fuel and sending money to CHINA to make these widgets. (and ship them here on boats that burn used motor oil for fuel. with NO emission contriols.)

Now that some great going there Feds...

There is TOO MUCH regulation. It needs to be reigned in.

When you shell out a few hundred bucks for new sensors ask yourself if that money would be better off in your kids college fund or in chinas defense budget.

Old Timer,
I'll be sure to put a bottle of topsoil on the shelf in your honor today...lol

I didn't think anybody on here could top the deranged lunacy of John Walton Giuliano. I think I stand corrected - framing sustainable environment groups as Nazi-inspired eugenicists might just be the jaw-droppingly-dumbest thing I have ever heard in my entire life! Keep it up though, every time one of you tea baggers lets loose with such nonsense, you dig another shovel full of credibility out of your movement's own grave. Priceless!

And by the way, you got it backwards, euginists from Amerian academia traveled to Germany and inspired that movement there.

Chopped Liver's absolutely right, although he didn't put it as succinctly. But let's be fair, the Nazi eugenicists are at the top of the ladder where the funding and planning for the sustainability agenda is coming from, the well meaning environmentalists at the bottom just like the feeling of the rich and powerful "best and brightest" being for the environment, they like to think they're in charge and associate their sense of power and purpose with them. So they put the blinders on when you tell them the movement is part of a scam being perpetuated by a bunch of Nazi eugenicists, even though it's true. That would mean their precious best and brightest are the worst and darkest. Hitler loved Margaret Sanger for calling black people weeds who need to be culled (with abortion). Many of the top Nazi's escaped to South America or were given refuge by the CIA in this country, and their kids are the ones running the scam now. Please, do some research. Or maybe you already know all this but don't want others to believe it. It's certainly a possibility. Call it a theory if you want.

@JWG

Environmentals= Nazis

wow, now there is an original thought. so creative and insightful.

geez, you tinfoil hat wingnuts really are just ignorant clowns.

I shouldn't have to explain to you what is already explained in my comment about Nazis, eugenics, and the sustainability agenda again. I ask you to consider why you have to blatantly oversimplify and misconstrue what I said. I'm an environmentalist in the truest sense of the word. And I'm not definitely not a Nazi. You sound like you just graduated from college or something.

You see, they have all the money in the world, they have the best technology in the world, they don't need any of us, we are just in their way now. They want us out of their way. In the words of Ted Turner, we're just useless eaters. If they can work together and pool their wealth into a one world government then they might be able to accomplish their goal of 500 million people on Earth which will be much easier to manage than 7 billion. But they've got their work cut out for them, that's for sure.

Madison Grant, the founder of the Bronx Zoo and a groundbreaking conservationist, wrote one of the most influential eugenics books, The Passing of the Great Race, which would be laughable if it weren’t so revolting. In pseudoscientific language, Grant denies the very right to life of members of other races, using as evidence nothing more than his own prejudiced stereotypes. In Grant’s final analysis, white Americans were not racist enough: “They lack the instinct of self-preservation in a racial sense. Unless such an instinct develops their race will perish, as do all organisms which disregard this primary law of nature.”

This goal of creating a more racist society informed much of the cultural work of the institutions led by President Roosevelt and Pinchot (advisor to Roosevelt) not only Grant was an influential friend to the president and phrases and ideas from his writing crept into Roosevelt’s. Oddly, the improvement of the dominant race meshed with the New Nationalism’s utopia of a merit-based society. Without money or class to distinguish them, the sexual attraction between men and women would be guided only by natural selection. Those unbiased choices would automatically sort mates by the proper eugenic criteria, matching the best to the best—white to white, intelligent to intelligent, and so on. That this absurd notion was considered a basis for social policy reveals the extent of the collectivism envisioned in Pinchot’s brave new world

Eugenics thrived in America until discredited by the revelation of the Nazi death camps it had helped inspire. Grant’s book particularly incited Hitler, who wrote him a fan letter calling it his “Bible” before inscribing its hatred upon the flesh of millions of people. (The same Nazi officials who slaughtered human beings in death camps also passed some of the world’s most advanced legislation to protect the environment and endangered species, even outlawing cruelty to animals, including the sort of medical experimentation they performed on their human victims.) World War II’s horrors saved our country from going farther down the eugenic path, but Roosevelt died before that happened, and Pinchot’s life carried him in a new direction. By the 1930s Pinchot had become a champion of the poor and admirer of indigenous cultures, and he spoke out early against German anti-Semitism.
Eugenics thrived in America until discredited by the revelation of the Nazi death camps it had helped inspire. Grant’s book particularly incited Hitler, who wrote him a fan letter calling it his “Bible” before inscribing its hatred upon the flesh of millions of people. (The same Nazi officials who slaughtered human beings in death camps also passed some of the world’s most advanced legislation to protect the environment and endangered species, even outlawing cruelty to animals, including the sort of medical experimentation they performed on their human victims.) World War II’s horrors saved our country from going farther down the eugenic path, but Roosevelt died before that happened, and Pinchot’s life carried him in a new direction. By the 1930s Pinchot had become a champion of the poor and admirer of indigenous cultures, and he spoke out early against German anti-Semitism.
Eugenics thrived in America until discredited by the revelation of the Nazi death camps it had helped inspire. Grant’s book particularly incited Hitler, who wrote him a fan letter calling it his “Bible” before inscribing its hatred upon the flesh of millions of people. (The same Nazi officials who slaughtered human beings in death camps also passed some of the world’s most advanced legislation to protect the environment and endangered species, even outlawing cruelty to animals, including the sort of medical experimentation they performed on their human victims.) World War II’s horrors saved our country from going farther down the eugenic path, but Roosevelt died before that happened, and Pinchot’s life carried him in a new direction. By the 1930s Pinchot had become a champion of the poor and admirer of indigenous cultures, and he spoke out early against German anti-Semitism.

The above were excerpts from a paper written by Charles Wohlforth...
Here is a link...http://www.geneticsandsociety.org/article.php?id=5271

Or, google "Eugenics and the environmental movement" and you will get 59,000 hit

Here is another link you may find interesting...http://www.sntp.net/eugenics/eugenics_america.htm

So we can just cut and paste someone else's (dubious) scholarship now without bothering with citations?

"The hard core environmentalists, which include many wealthy people in positions of power, have no problem with the elimination of billions of people to further that agenda. Thus, environmentalism + eugenics = utopia in their minds."

Wow. And just who exactly are these "wealthy, hard-core environmentalist, mass murderers?" Give us names. Preferably names of people who didn't die seventy-five or more years ago.

That's a breif who's who of the modern day Nazis, alright. It sounds like Kissinger had a bad day today. Hopefully he'll get what he deserves. http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-swiss-parliamentarians-to-force-way-in...

http://www.rense.com/general59/kissingereugenics.htm

Rense has a very telling disclaimer that it provides a link to at the bottom of that page.

"We choose not to censor skewed logic and uncomfortable rhetoric. "http://www.rense.com/disclaimer.htm

That certainly does come in handy when they publish the work of an author who doesn't seem to know the difference between eugenics and depopulation. Handy again if that author should also assert something as ridiculous as the existence of a group of microbiologists working to create "ethnic-specific bio-weapons." One has to wonder what sort of microbes would be capable of selecting their hosts according to cultural rather than physical characteristics.

So, are John Giuliano and Chopped Liver (who chose his screen name quite well, since his "arguments" have the depth and substance of, well, chopped liver) members of the Tea Party? Or have they just decided to do "crazy" on their own?

So did the International Red Cross: "The potential to target a particular ethnic group with a biological agent is probably not far off. These scenarios are not the product of the ICRC's imagination but have either occurred or been identified by countless independent and governmental experts."[3]

Ethnic (Websters) a : of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background

It must be nice working for counterintelligence too. I look back on my time with COINTELPRO with fond memories. How they doin these days? Tell them Groucho says hi.

Hey, don't be knockin' the order of the Rosy Cross.

If there's anything that I find hard to believe, it's that someone could actually be saying things as dumb as the things you're saying because they actually believe them as opposed to being counterintelligence. It's more a marvel than a disbelief. I see it all the time, I deal with it all the time. I marvel at the beast.

Maybe that's cause they fried my brain for being smart enough to be a threat to them. It's all good. My brain's not scrambled, it's sunny side up.

Where is Tom Perriello ? He could throw the Tea party out of C-Ville. Oh thats right he got a pink slip back in November.

Correction: the photo in this story mentions the Jefferson Area Tea Party. It should actually reference the Jefferson Area Milkshake Party. P.S.: cookiejar is a mobilized Soros-fearer? Wow, Glenn Beck has been busy! I didn't think anyone paid any attention to him anymore!