'It is war': Harringtons vow at murder's two-year anniversary
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Virginia Tech instructor Jane Lillian Vance shows the parents of Morgan Harrington "The Hunted," a painting recalling the three months their daughter's body lay in a pasture.hawes spencer
The parents of murder victim Morgan Dana Harrington marked the two-year anniversary of their 20-year-old daughter's mysterious abduction with stern words for the killer– and for any sleuths– to hear.
"It is war," says mother Gil Harrington.
Indeed, her husband reminds the public that a $150,000 reward remains in place for the person who cracks the case that began on October 17, 2009 during a Charlottesville rock concert.
"One hundred and fifty thousand dollars can change your life," said Dan Harrington, "and it can also bring the person who did this the justice they deserve."
Authorities, meanwhile, urge anyone to come forward who noticed any suspicious circumstances between the day of Morgan Harrington's disappearance to the moment, 101 days later, when the young woman's remains were discovered in an Albemarle County cow pasture.
Harrington was last seen attempting to hitch a ride on the Copeley Road Bridge after she left the evening's Metallica concert at the nearby John Paul Jones Arena. Officials remain particularly interested in suspects who had knowledge of Anchorage Farm and in anyone who exhibited any unexplained wounds– as might be delivered by a resisting victim– around the time of the abduction.
At the Monday morning event on the bridge, Harrington's parents talked about their recently-announced "Help Save the Next Girl" campaign, they lauded searchers and supporters, and they showed off "The Hunted," a new painting created by a Virginia Tech instructor who taught their daughter.
"Morgan was really something," said adjunct religion and culture professor Jane Lillian Vance, who remembers Harrington as an A+ student in her class called "The Creative Process." Vance said the college student had been slated to travel with her to Nepal for further study in the summer of 2010. Instead, Vance trekked to the 19,000-foot level in Nepal with some of Harrington's ashes, which she scattered in the mountains.
As for the investigation, it appears to have hit a roadblock. DNA recovered from the black t-shirt Harrington was wearing the night of the concert has been linked to a years-earlier unsolved Fairfax rape, but authorities have been unable to find the suspect.
"We are angry, and we are not alone," the mom told the assembled reporters and supporters Monday.
"Our history tells us his compulsion to hurt again cannot be quieted," said the father, who noted afterwards that some people probably wish the Harringtons would be quieted.
"Well, we're not going to go away," says Dan Harrington. "It's a parent's duty to do what we're doing."
***
Indeed, it is war.
Hours after the commemorative event, word was released that Mrs. Harrington, as executor of her daughter's estate, filed suit nearly a week earlier in Roanoke against Regional Marketing Concepts Inc., aka RMC Events, the company that provided Arena security during the Metallica concert. Seeking $3.5 million, the suit alleges that the company's action, in denying Morgan the right to return after leaving the venue, led to the incident. In comments published in the Roanoke Times, the company president, while not commenting on the suit, cites the ubiquity of such "no-reentry" policies.
–updated with lawsuit info 12:01pm, Tuesday, October 18
286 comments
I am surprised somebody hasn't jumped at the $150,000 reward. This tells me at least two things: 1) the accomplices, if any, were deeply involved in whatever took place and they feel as if they can't cut a deal with the commonwealth and save their own bacon, or 2) there were no accomplices. Whatever took place was done by one physically strong male in reasonable good health.
Just like the Alicia Showalter Reynolds abduction and murder, I simply don't believe this case will ever be solved. I hope I am wrong.
My 18 year old daughter is in Bermuda right now. And all I can think about Natalee Holloway's disappearaance and death in Aruba.
Gasbag --- You might be interested in the horrific case of Rebecca Middletown . Young Canadian girl that was butchered in Bermuda and subsequent farcical legal blundering of the Bermudian court system .
Rebecca Middleton
I remember the Middleton case well. It was just a few months after Alicai Showalter Reynolds disappeared. Just lke Alicia, Rebecca Middleton was a very pretty girl.
They are suing the security company for JPA for 3.5 million. I guess it is ok now for folks to leave an event there go out and do whatever and then come back in. You can thank the Harringtons for that now. I am actually surprised at the lack of surveillance cameras in and around that place. But I guess the ACLU would sue over it. I wonder if the cops interviewed any of the carnival workers that worked the Albemarle County fair prior to her murder. It was held in close proximity to where she was found. Whoever did it, in my opinion just didn't happen to pick the site at random where she was found. They have some kind of connection to that piece of land. I hope when they catch the killer, it will not show that something obvious was missed.
They're all very pretty girls. That's the problem with being a beauty-- predators all think they own you. All girls should be cautious, but pretty girls, wow. It's like having a target on your back.
I'm puzzled why no arrests -- I think they already know who did it, in a big way... Perhaps they just don't have enough solid evidence to convict yet? Or are waiting until all accomplices can be located?
You know, I am SO SICK of this blame-the-Harringtons garbage. I've always thought that the concert security was at least partly to blame for her death. Their daughter was murdered -- how much more proof do you need that it's an awful policy?
"some people probably wish the Harringtons would be quieted." He may be referring to people like me when he said that. I have had plenty to say in the past about this case, and I won't go over it again. But this latest move suing for $3.5M is not surprising, and I won't be surprised when they do some of the other things I have been predicitng.
What are the officials at JPJ suppossed to do? Most people leave a concert to go out to the car to do drugs or get more booze. No idea why she left, but she fell under the blanket non-discrimatory policy. The place would be out of control if they allowed this to go on, especially at a rock concert. It wasn't the Muppets on Ice show. I guess they were suppossed to let her back in because she was a pretty female, but keep the rest locked out who did the same ...
Doyle, if I recall correctly, she appeared to be a lady in distress while leaving and while attempting to return. Maybe security should have looked into what they could possibly do to help her. They could have at least asked a police officer to come evaluate the situation and take her into custody if said police officer felt she was intoxicated. When people appear to be intoxicated, the police take them into custody for their own safety. I think Morgan Harrington easily fell into this category.
I have been following the case and the last news release makes me ask this one question...WHERE IS LT. JOE RADAR???? He was involved in all past news releases & now he is no longer part of current releases. I guess this is a indication politics controls and the Harrington rules.
And you have statements from reliable witnesses to the fact that she appeared to be intoxicated and in distress?? The police don't usually arrest people for public intoxication unless they are a danger to themselves or causing a disturbance. If they arrested every intoxicated young adult that was walking around C-ville, then we would have to have a police force the size of the NYPD. If she was able to walk around and especially make it to the bridge, then she was apparently no worse than any other partying student. Nobody wants to take personal responsibility for their actions anymore. Blame everyone but yourself for ending up in a bad/deadly situation I guess.
The Harringtons are not the "sueing kind." This was obviously a last resort for them in their quest for answers. This is no doubt unfamiliar territory, but they handle it with such grace and dignity. This legal action could potentially provide information JPJ and the security firm wouldn't provide unless forced to do so. What do they have to lose? They've already lost what was most precious to them--their beautiful Morgan. GO HARRINGTONS! SAVE THE NEXT GIRL!
If she had been a UVA student, the Harringtons would have been "silenced" by the UVA "machine."
Where is Yeardley's Mom? I would have been camping out on Carrs Hill until UVA did the "right thing," which they have yet to, and probably will never, do.
When this bad karma finally catches up with UVA, and it will eventually, it won't be pretty.
@ Betty: you are so right!
Yeardley's mom will get to see Georgie plead out to voluntary manslaughter, and be free this time next year, with six years probation. I guarantee it.
Due to the fact, public outrage has calmed, evidence and memories of police and witnesses has become tainted and inadmissable. Plus the fact his defense attorneys will make mincemeat of the local CA's office during cross-examinations and closing arguments.
Doyle, a very young attractive girl thrown out the door to the wolves in this city is a danger to herself. My daughter is almost the same age now that Morgan was at the time of his event. I do not want my daughter walking these streets after dark by herself. There can be no denying that this city is not safe after dark. Even on the crowded mall it's not safe after dark. Whatever happened to Morgan certainly proves the John Paul Jones arena and parking areas aren't safe after dark.
We will probably never agree on what took place and why in somebody NOT helping Morgan. If a lawsuit has indeed been filed by the Harringtons, it's up to the jury to sort the entire mess out.
And JAB, if a lawsuit has been filed by the Harringtons, I don't think they are in it for the money either. If they win and damages or awards I suspect they will post it all to the reward being offered in solving this case.
Gasbag, If she had left on her own and refused help or escort when offered and all of this happened would JPJ still be culpable? At what point are adults to assume some responsibility for their own behavior? I would gladly slice the throat of the perpetrator in the center of the downtown mall but JPJ is not to blame. She left. The policy is reasonable on its face in that is for the protection of the many from those who will go out and come back to use drugs and drink. It would be a logistical nightmare and prudent to the safety of the patrons.
I am sorry for their loss, but JPJ should not have to pay. Sometimes there just isn't anyone to call.
Tim, a lot of answers to a lot of questions are hard to come by in this unusual and bizarre event. What I want to know is how a multi-million dollar state of the art facility like the John Paul Jones arena has no video whatsoever of Morgan Harrington coming and going. Based upon my personal life experiences and the personal antics I have seen of local government and large organizations, I think video of Morgan Harrington did exist at some point in time. I also think it was destroyed for a variety of reasons. It won't be the first time vital records or recordings have been destroyed in this area for self serving purposes in an effort to avoid liability. Furthermore I believe this video would clearly have shown Morgan Harrington to be a person in need of services, services that were denied her by the security staff. Services that should probably have been offered to Morgan Harrington by any reasonable person viewing the video that no longer exists. If a teenage girl is responsible for her own safety and well being on the mean streets of Charlottesville and Albemarle County, why do we even need a security staff or law enforcement? It's just so hard to believe that this abduction and murder took place with dozens and dozens of cops and security guards in such a small area. Where do they all go to between the time the show(s) start and the time the shows(s) end? After a concert begins, have you ever seen security or law enforcement outside the arena? I haven't. Why would it be so hard for the security and law enforcement staff to continue to protect and serve outside the arena while the shows are in progress?
I know I am wasting my breathe here. Because the courts have ruled that law enforcement has no obligation to protect anybody.
Gasbag Self Ordained Expert October 18th, 2011 | 12:26am
You nailed it, 100%!
sniped from http://www.wdbj7.com/news/wdbj7-morgan-ads-20111003,0,3824934.story
michael10 at 10:57 PM October 04, 2011
…..I wish them the best, 2 years is also a legal hurdle. A top notch legal team with top notch investigators would yield much better results. Go out of the states that border or Virgina.
Then let the law firm and investigative team release info. Then you will get results!
Then and only then will they know they did the very best for Morgan."
Don't worry, the notorious blogger has a new angle. After accusing everyone in present-day cville by naming an exhaustive list of suspects (LEOs, EMTs, firefighters, security guards, musicians, artists, MMA fighters, guys who make music videos, guys who post about the case, RSOs, etc.) she's now turned back the dial and says we'll find the answer in -- wait for it -- slave genealogy. Yes, this crime was 150 years or more in the making! I guess the next theory she posts will have to involve a time machine with the perp traveling back from the future, 'cause what else is left?
Oddly, her 2 + 2 = 5 logic continues thusly: Because the security firm will not want to pony up the $3.5M they are being sued for, they will miraculously convince someone to drop a dime on the perp (collecting the $150K reward for his or her trouble). So her thinking must be that the security firm knows who did it, or knows who knows who did it. Now, how THAT would relieve said security firm of the liability for (in the mom's argument) sending that poor girl out to her death, I don't know.
Hey wait, didn't Morgan leave the arena on her own? Walked out the door despite being told she would not be able to re-enter? She knew the rules as they are the same everywhere. And I mean everywhere. For the safety of the patrons. Did RMC tell her to leave the immediate area of the arena and head out toward the bridge to hitchhike? It's a shame she wasn't arrested for being drunk and under the influence of drugs, then she'd be alive today. I do really feel badly for the Harringtons...this is a natural reaction for them to want to lash out. I honestly don't know what I'd do if in their shoes. But I would look much farther than Charlottesville for Morgan's killer. He could be anywhere, as evidenced by his earlier attack in Fairfax.
Maybe at least RMC can get their lawyers to find out why Morgan walked away from the arena. It may not be what the Harrington's want us to hear since her reputation has been wiped so clean, but it may be a start. I hope this works for them.
Gas Bag, she was not a teenager. There are young men and women in Iraq serving our country her age. Leading fire teams, and making life and death decisions. She was probably sheltered more than our troops her age. I agree with you on the lack of video, letting a jury decide, and this lawsuit is definitely not about money. But lets face it, she made some bad choices that night. JPJ should not have to pay a dime or change its policy.
Gasbag.... either there were cameras or there were not cameras, if there were camaeras they were either recording or not recording, if they were recording they were either destroyed or are avaialable. I recall that there were no recordings (not lost or destryed) Does anyone have the facts?
Where does the arenas liability end? When she walks out the door? When she walks off the property? Suppose two guys were fighting and one got ejected and came back and shot the other in the parking lot? Suppose he shot him across the street or the next day?
Suppose Morgan voluntarily got in a car, went to a party, left THAT party and then the perp grabbed her? Would it still be the arenas fault?
I ask myself what can JPJ do different to prevent this from occuring again in the future and the fact of the matter is that they are powerless because nuts like this will always lurk in the shadows. (unless you want at least two dozen kids arrested for being drunk at every event) (or lawsuits from the one kid who was falsely accused by an "inadequatley trained" staff)
That is why we need to educate our children to not place themselves in harms way.
This lawsuit should not proceed. If the Haringtons lose they should have to pay all court costs.
I stand corrected, Doyle. Morgan had turned 20. So she technically was not a teenager any longer. The same argument applies though. If 20 year old girls are responsible for their own safety and well being, why do we even security and law enforcement on the mean streets of Charlottesville?
Bill, good question. What can UVA do to prevent this from occuring again in the future? Well, since they are paying out so much to have a large showing of security and law enforcement present at certain events, a good start would be to let some of this security and law enforcement continue to serve and protect OUTSIDE the arena while shows or concerts are in progress. On more than one occasion I have arrived at John Paul Jones arena 30 to 45 minutes early to pick up family members and friends after an event. I can not recall ever seeing any security or law enforcement outside while waiting. I would hope I could come up with a few more bright ideas if I sat down and thought about it for a while.
I'm pretty sure if it was a 20 year old poor Latina or African American girl that couldn't go to college, this wouldn't even be a story.
Billy, you are 100 percent correct. It wouldn't have even made the Daily Regress. That's why I am sick and tired of hearing about Morgan Harrington.
Back when I was a rowdy concert-going college student, arenas had "detox areas" where they'd put drunken kids precisely so things like this wouldn't happen.
It's not rocket science.
Also, if it DID happen to a poor Latina (or anyone else) it should be treated exactly the same. Sadly, that points to a bit of a different issue. Every young person should have some modicum of protection at events like this, especially when people (including the academic institutions) are profiting from their residence near and interest in the event and artist(s).
If local papers discriminate, then they should be dealt with accordingly. It shouldn't prevent justice from being served. That's "reverse" discrimination.
I'm so sick of people bashing poor Morgan because she was GORGEOUS and from a good family. You think she could help that anymore than an ugly person can? That's a kin to reverse discrimination in my opinion. ALL VICTIMS DESERVE MEDIA ATTENTION! The poor, the rich, the ugly, and the beautiful. Morgan didn't ask to be beautiful or be born into a wealthy family--get over it.
It has been reported that Jill Harrington has instituted a law suit for $3.5MM against the security company who works the JPJ building. It will be interesting as to where this goes- it would be disgusting if this were to become an "all about the money" case.
I hope she doesn't go after the "friends" who brought her to JPJ..............
Hey JAB,
That would be a perfect world. As you said "ALL VICTIMS DESERVE MEDIA ATTENTION!" and you know, as well as we all do. That's not the case. I'm not trying to down-play this awful event, just stating the TRUTH!
Billy, I realize it's not a perfect world and beautiful ppl get more coverage. I'm just stating that Morgan couldn't help that she was born beautiful--all ppl need media coverage--ugly, gorgeous, or in between.
JAB, I understand that. Not trying to start a fight. I just am trying to make people aware. Isn't that what this forum is for? You obviously agree with me.
Furthermore, instead of criticizing the victims that do get more attention I feel like our energy and anger would best be directed at the media for neglecting to report on the other murder victims. We don't need to hate on Morgan to demand more coverage for the Cassandra Mortons of the world.
Billy, I'm not trying to fight either. I donate to the Black & Missing org, and I understand your point and concern as it is one I share to a certain degree. My anger honestly wasn't directed at you--just the countless posts I've read over the past 2 years disparaging Morgan because she was attractive and from an affluent family. I apologize that my posts singled you. You were not the intended target of my frustration.
JAB, I totally understand. It's a very unfortunate situation. I hope that other's will benefit from this tragic event.
Ooooh... You people make me ANGRY!
I saw stuff that night. I wasn't at the concert, but I saw stuff that was bad enough to report to police, although later they told me that they don't think it was related to Harrington's abduction. And what I saw was bad enough.
And you know what makes me angry? People who try to blame the girl for this. You guys just don't know what predators are if you think she was at fault. All this stuff that she'd been drinking or partying... It doesn't matter when PREDATORS show up. They don't care. They'll snatch you in an instant with overwhelming force, do what they want with you and leave your body in a dumpster a couple of hours later. It's what they do, they're evil. And yes, I think the no re-entry policy is partly to blame. Concerts invite a certain age group that's particularly vulnerable, but of course the courts have to decide on a percentage of blame.
Back to the point. Don't make me reach through this computer and SLAP you. Just wait until YOUR daughter, YOUR mother, YOUR sister, YOUR wife or girlfriend comes across a PREDATOR. If they survive it, they'll never be the same.
Hot, violence is not the answer. I'm pretty sure you would not slap me. You should buy a T-shirt to alleviate the heat. I don't think anyone blamed anyone for this heinous crime, but if they did, it is inaccurate and a shame.
I just had a question...If they're going to go after JPJ and the security for not helping their daughter, why were they so kind to Morgan's "friends" who acknowledged Morgan had no car keys, no jacket (40ish degree, drizzling night), and no ride home. Something isn't right. If I were Sarah Snead or Amy Melvin and my good girl friend was locked out at 850pm, I would most certainly either throw her the car keys at the door, leave with her, or buy her another ticket, I most certainly wouldn't say "oh ok, well good luck finding that ride home". They're either not telling the full truth, or they're just AWFUL friends. Sad story. RIP Morgan.
Also, the call Sarah made to Morgan was made AFTER the alleged sightings of Morgan acting irrationally. So in my opinion, I'm sure she sounded a bit "off" on the phone....ah such a frustrating case...this could have been prevented.
In my opinion this is welcomed news. We wish Gil the best and with her rights to see internal documents and depose the parties perhaps she is on the path to find the truth.
I see the negative comments, I am sure it was expected. One can be negative but make useful suggestions. But to just blatantly say you are sick of hearing MORGAN in the news is so wrong.
We see hurdles and it is going to be a war [ without violence]. I think the public should be allowed to know what has NO relevance in the case so that all of the rumors and false accusations are stopped.
"INTENT" will be key, often it is not just neglect but the intent to keep information from interested parties is almost as bad.
GIL made a decision, I can in no way say I know more about her decision than anyone else. BUT, I doubt the money will ever be used for lavish or material things. If they settle or continue I fully trust her to spend the money for education, helping others and maybe to pursue what her attorneys discover.
God's speed GIL.
Just to clarify, the Jamie in above post and J.me (Admin 3 at findmorgan) are not one and the same.
Thanks :)
I was just going to say, no way that is J.me. Peace, keep up the good work!
Billy October 18th, 2011 | 2:35pm
Nice post, we will never know how many tragedies have already been avoided due to GIL. That is the beauty of her efforts, no names but educating may have stopped 2 or 3 tragedies.
I do not agree with her use of a few words, but hey, she has the freedom to say anything she wants. She is a fighter and Billy she will do the best she can to teach families to benefit from her experience. Nice to know Morgan had GIL as mother, but friend and more.
JPJ's no re-entry policy is ludicrous. It's a knee jerk reaction to Bush's failed 9/11 policies, and an erosion to basic rights. It's really just a policy to protect the concessions. As many have said in this thread, something like" What if she were just going out to get refueled on drugs and drink?" Who cares? It's the job of security to provide security! This child was obviously failed any reasonable security or even her life by the failings of JPJ and RMC. Whatever happened to the handstamp?
I am glad a security connection is being investigated although I'd look at HH Security. Look at their photos and see if anything jumps out at you.
HEY, HAWES or COURTENEY -- Can you clarify whether the Fairfax assailant's dna was actually found on the shirt rather than with Morgan's remains as stated in the article above? Or found in both places? This is the first time I'm seeing the shirt mentioned as the source.
While we are at it, can someone confirm that Joe Rader is retiring? Best wishes to him and kudos for all his work on the case, but why would someone retire in the middle of such a high profile case? It makes me think things are going to be exposed that do not put the investigation in the best light and Rader wants no part of it. I believe, Joe and Dino too, to be honorable men.
@ Billy
"I'm pretty sure if it was a 20 year old poor Latina or African American girl that couldn't go to college, this wouldn't even be a story."
I concur, along with Doyle Hargraves. There was a black woman named Cassandra Morton who went missing here in Virginia the same exact week as Morgan Harrington, in October of 2009, and nobody even heard about it until her body was discovered. And even then it received only a cursory mention in the media. And, from what I was told (though I can't confirm this) her story was announced as "Good news....the body found ______ was *not* Morgan Harrington."
When somebody relayed to me that this was how Ms. Morton's body discovery was announced on the news, "Good news!" I didn't even have to ask whether she was a person of color. I already knew. And sure enough, an online search confirmed this. She was black. Apparently the media thought it was great that it was "just" the body of some black woman, and not Morgan.
Also there was another young white female who went missing after Morgan but sorry to say she wasn't as glamorous looking as Morgan and her family wasn't well off, so her case has sort of disappeared. Off the top of my head I can't even remember her name or what town she lived in. Which goes to show just how much press coverage she hasn't received. Maybe somebody here knows who I'm talking about. Anyway, it seems that the relative absense of the other girl's story in the media has everything to do with her looks and economic status in life.
I will clarify that I have no ill will towards the attention Morgan Harrington has received, and that I feel for her family and what they've gone through these past two years. No parents should ever have to go through something like this. I'm just agreeing with Billy, that certain murder/disappearance cases absolutely *do* get more attention. Those who are good looking, usually always white, and who come from higher up families. This is a fact, it's not even something that can be argued. The media speaks for itself and completely proves this with it's treatment of various cases.
I didn't see anyone disagree with Billy. Missing White Woman syndrome is the name for this media phenomenon. However, Morgan (and other attractive women) can't help they were born attractive anymore than Cassandra Morton was born black. I think instead of complaining about the about of face time the Morgan Harringtons of the world get, we as a society should be pushing for more coverage of ALL missing people. It shouldn't be a race or gender issue. Think about it when's the last time you heard of a MISSING MAN?
The higher media profile of MH has a lot to do with her beauty but more so with the connection to the two world name brands of UVA and Metalica . Those three names are all intertwined in all local ,national ,and international stories .It is just specific to her situation . She is also generally percieved as a child . Young missing boys also get high media exposure .Had MH been black and also beautiful no doubt there would be lots of media exposure aided by pressure groups . The Duke alleged gang rape of a black female had sensational over the top media attention . Cop killers who are black are often media darlings for decades .
P.S. If the black girl in the Duke case had of alleged she was raped in a back street crack house no one would have heard of it . She picked a famous name brand for her story .The name brands associated with the MH case gives it the instant and sustained broad coverage .
I think all of you are wrong about the reasons this case stays on the front page. It stays on the front page because the Harringtons have made every effort to insure that it stays on the front page, and on the front burner in law enforcement circles. Law enforcement would probably be tickled to death if the Harringtons simply went away and shut up.
Many other old unsolved murder cases are exactly that because nobody keeps the pressure on the community and law enforcement to solve them.
If the Harringtons walked away today and shut up, I honestly don't believe you would ever hear another word about the progress (or lack of progress) being made in Morgan's disappearance and murder.
This case isn't about black, white or latino. It's not about wealth. It's not about beauty. It is somewhat about a UVA policy that contributed to wolves preying on yet another a defenseless young girl. It is about the file not being stuck in a cabinet somewhere for 25 years as a pending unsolved crime. And it is about a family who is keeping the heat on law enforcement to start solving all the murders we have been having lately.
Doesn't hurt that a PR firm offered their services to the Harringtons. They've found creative ways to keep her name in the news. Skeptics might see it as two years of prep towards the inevitable lawsuit using this formula: grieve publicly and loudly, do good works publicly and loudly, and keep Morgan's image pristine. With public support so firmly on your side, and with you in control of the story, there's a good chance you'll win. Not that they won't continue to do good works. Gil's sister's charity that built Morgan's educational wing in Africa and other causes the Hs are close to will surely benefit.
The family are the drivers of the story no doubt as pressure groups drove the Duke case . The youth ,beauty of the victum,and name brands (UVA & Metalica) are what resonates .
Frank Speaker, you're right of course that UVA and Metallica helped. Heck, even Morgan's connection to troubled and newsworthy Va Tech helped.
I hope her killer is caught, but I don't think JPJ is any more at fault than the City of Charlottesville is. Truth is it's not a good idea for females to be walking around at night in Cville.
@ Gasbag:
"This case isn't about black, white or latino. It's not about wealth. It's not about beauty. It is somewhat about a UVA policy that contributed to wolves preying on yet another a defenseless young girl. It is about the file not being stuck in a cabinet somewhere for 25 years as a pending unsolved crime. And it is about a family who is keeping the heat on law enforcement to start solving all the murders we have been having lately."
I disagree, big time. Poor missing and/or murdered people of color don't get the cover of People Magazine, period. They just don't. Only the Yeardleys and Morgans of the world do. And there's a reason for that. So it absolutely is about race, beauty and wealth, it really is. But I do agree with you about the effort that Morgan's parents have put in to make sure their daughter's case isn't forgotten. However..................the media was more than happy to pick this story up and run with it because again, the race, beauty and class status of the victim involved. Versus say, vocal parents of a missing/murdered female of color. In that case, the parents of color could be just as vocal as the Harringtons, but it doesn't mean the media is going to pay them any mind. And certainly not People Magazine.
In the end the media decides who is and isn't going to get the exposure, no matter how vocal a set of parents may be. The media decides to put somebody on the cover of their magazine or to feature the story on TV or their internet site. And they make that decision based on attractiveness and class status. That's what gets ratings. That's what sells print media. That's what gets the internet clicks and ups the traffic volume, and thus, encourages advertisers to keep advertising with a site.
@ JAB:
"Think about it when's the last time you heard of a MISSING MAN?"
Very true. And actually, the last time I heard of a missing man was reading the latest Cville weekly during my lunch break today, where it recaps the week's headlines, and there was a male UVA student that's been missing since the last week of September. It made me do a double take, so rare is it to hear about a missing man. So you're definitely right. Oh yeah, and I saw a People Mag article last year or so devoted to a slew of young males in their late teens to 20s who've gone missing or turned up dead. Forget where it was happening. But it was surprising to see, because you just never see that. "Missing White Women Syndrome" indeed..........
Your Missing White Woman Syndrome comes from the fact that when women become missing it is often due to being a victum of a sex crime . Men usually go missing for a variety of other but less sensational and less obnoxious reasons .
The article is about Gil filing a law suite. White Woman Syndrome or not, will not be a consideration in the suite.
Gil has done much to assist all mothers of missing people. Many who went missing before Morgan. They are not all white and she certainly has no favoritism other than she of-course puts her daughter first. I hope the readers do know of Gil's work before this tragedy. Perhaps some do not, but once you read about it, I think you may see that this seems a strange place to discuss racism. She and Morgan were not and should not be mentioned with racism.
But, you have the right to freedom of speech as do I.
I would like for the official first interviews of employees to come out. Seems to me anyway you look at it, they were employed or contracted by a State Institution.
How many times did she enter, was the ticket taker, the security that looks into back backs, the people at the will-call window, the person that cautioned her not to leave and the shift manager interviewed? See, if you do not have cameras at the ticket office and will-call where would you have cameras. I believe I know, but would like to hear how close her first entry and where her ticket was scanned is to the will-call window and what door was she reported to try at least one re-entry. How many failed re-entries,and did security make an incident report.
Show them Digital Images of the will-call window with time stamps and lets see
if other existed, were destroyed or just for some strange reason after 9/11 and the mass-shooting at a sister school they just did not turn on the camera's.
I say high time some one sued someone! Seems the big institutions only speak one language. And I would like to add that Gil has true deep courage, do not forget who their employers are.
This decision was huge and I think she deserves all of the support she can get.
boooo!, other murder cases receive as much attention as a family requests. A good example was the 1988 murder of Roger Shifflett in Albemarle County. During one of the last inquiries by the family the county police rushed out, threw together a case and arrested a suspect. If they arrested the right person, they didn't have enough evidence to convict him. And if they arrested the right suspect, they can never charge him with the same crime again. You won't see much about this case in the news any longer. The Shifflett family believes the right person was charged and the county lost their bid at convicting him. They will no longer prod the police into doing more to solve the case.
After most murders, the family just gives up after months and years go by without an arrest. The Harringtons aren't giving up. And this is the reason the story remains on the front page month after month. And in my opinion, the only reason.
JAB, I would absolutely love to know where you are getting some of your information. Who leaked that to you?? First of all if you cared anything about this family you would not be putting rumors out there for the whole world to read.
And Joe Rader is retiring because he can retire at an early age and go on to new adventures in his life. It has nothing to do with the case.
booo, have you actually tried to get some of the other stories in the media??
JAB, I have looked at the photos on H&H Security. The only thing I see out of place is the president of the company posing in a Virginia State Police car. I'm not sure the state police would approve of this.
What were you looking at?
Joe Rader is a fool if he is eligible for retirement and doesn't take it. Like many agencies, I suspect the state police is a bear to work for. It's not so much the people (criminals) you have to deal with as much as it is the administration. I recall a while back they were giving the oldest man to ever work in a state police uniform a fit over his weight. He once told me he was going to stay on and work as long as he could simply because they were giving him so much grief about his being a little overweight. And he did. This is how he became the oldest man to ever serve in the uniformed division. And all along he was one of the best troopers Virginia has ever thought about having.
Joe Rader is one of the finest guys you will ever want to meet. He has dedicated many years to LE and deserves the chance to try new things while he is young enough to do so. Gasbag, your posts are a welcome change to all the madness in the world. It's a shame that we have so many murdered and missing people across the country. All these families need people to support them.
I don't begrudge Rader retiring while the case is in progress. He knows random homicides are the most difficult to solve -- probably accounting for a good portion of the 40% of murders that go unsolved each year.
Why?? and GSOE - JAB is getting the HH Security information from Blinkoncrime.com. there is a whole story over there about HH Security and the owner, there really is no verifiable tie to Morgan's case, more speculation than anything IMO.
Jack, don't worry, that spurious source -- in a sweeping racial profiling exercise -- has expanded her sights beyond that poor H&H dude to include all descendants of slaves from Fairfax and Charlottesville. So you'll soon see many other black men thrown under the bus, joining the many others of all colors who have been falsely accused, maligned, or suspected publicly courtesy of her site over the past two years. How does she not get sued?
2 missing male cases that I can think of right off the top of my head: Johnny Dorey, who went to VCU, and the kid from Middlebury College a few years back who went missing in February and was found a few months later in the river, in an area that had been searched several times. His body had gotten caught in some trees in the river. Nick Renzia, or something like that. Both of them were white. So the stories are out there, but I don't think they are framed in quite the same light as the missing women.
And, kudos to Lt Rader for retiring while he has the chance. He probably would like to spend time with the family and do other things with his life. High-profile case, yeah, but one's job, no matter how noble/helpful/awesome, is not everything in the world.
Nick Garza was the Middlebury College kid.
Well folks, you know what? In reference to blinkoncrime, and technically, every male in the USA is a suspect. The ole "innocent until proven guilty" no longer exists. It's "guilty until proven innocent" now. Our local police department proved this when they started randomly taking DNA samples from any and all black males walking around the streets while searching for the serial rapist that terrorized our area for 12 years. This has to have been the absolute dumbest thing ever done in our city. And whoever dreamed it up and thought it was perfectly acceptable should have been fired on the spot. But of course it was explained away as a voluntary type thing. Uh huh, sure! Intimidation = voluntary.
OK, back to reality..... if I call myself WinkAtCrime and list all 26 letters of the alphabet as suspects, and K is finally arrested and convicted, I can then say, "I told you so!" I can also claim notoriety in helping solve the crime too.
And not particularly in reference to Blink, but a lot of people don't get sued because they don't have anything. I have judgements against two loud mouths from the Internet right now. One I will collect when she least expects it. The other has nothing and never will have anything.
Don't forget she openly admits to being affiliated with that vile right wing site.
Are you referring to Boink ; The Mad Dog of The Internet who brags about having no scruples ? What other vile site is she affiliated with now ? I recently read her last episode where she has far outdone her crazyiness .She has tried to weave two continents and the centuries old African slave system into the MH case .She claims somewhere there will be a connection to Anchorage farm . But again --anything for a buck ---.
To Truthiness, Agree with everything you said except for the comment about Gil's sister's charity. I am sure the Hs will continue to contribute to this charity but Gil was working for this charity and contributing to it while Morgan was still in high school. It is NOT her sister's charity, it was started by a friend of the Hs who is a surgical nurse. The Harringtons are flat out committed to having some good come out of this death.
Thanks for the correction, cat. Sounds like a worthy cause.
Seevillian (hat on BOC) Before you start spouting off comments about civil law, you should perhaps come to the realization that not everything you read on the internet is true. I am 'ross" who posted on BOC, I am not this other person she seems to think I am. She has been supplied with more than enough info to verify my identity.
While I live in FL now, I am from Louisa VA, and have given BOC so much info that a fifth grader could figure it out.
I have never, not once, said anything disparaging about Morgan, or the Harringtons, and I defy anyone to show evidence that I have. I will admit to calling BOC on some of her ridiculous posts, and constant grammatical mistakes (she really needs to learn the dif between "your" and "you're").
So, please before you accuse some one of something, learn the facts.
I just want to say a few things about Lt. Rader's retirement. First, good luck for whatever your future holds. I have no idea why he decided to retire at a relatively young age as some have stated. What I do know is that probably in his years of law enforcement he has seen more horrors than most of us can imagine and had to break the hearts of countless relatives. Whether he started out as a highway cop or an investigator, he has seen horribly broken and mutilated bodies. Some as the result of accidents, others at the hands of horrible killers. While a cop, and especially investigators charged with solving horrible crimes might appear young in years, what they have seen sometimes age them far beyond what we can even comprehend. I hope Lt. Rader is retiring to a good life.
Honoree, Lt Rader has a wonderful opportunity awaiting him once he retires. He will do well. VSP has been working extremely hard on ALL the cases, not just Morgan's. People only believe what the media tells them to believe. I am probably in the minority but I have faith in what they are doing. If I didn't I would be one of the first to say otherwise. If you have family in LE you know what they have to put up with on a daily basis. We do live in a society where a lot of evil takes place everyday. None of us know when we may be next to senseless crime. Hope everyone has a beautiful weekend!!
A sworn employee of the Virginia State Police can retire at age 50 with full benefits if they have at least 25 years of service.
Two relevant post as to THE article:
hook reader October 18th, 2011 | 8:37am
"... Maybe at least RMC can get their lawyers to find out why Morgan walked away from the arena. It may not be what the Harrington's want us to hear since her reputation has been wiped so clean, but it may be a start. I hope this works for them."
bill marshall October 18th, 2011 | 10:13am
Gasbag.... either there were cameras or there were not cameras, if there were camaeras they were either recording or not recording, if they were recording they were either destroyed or are avaialable. I recall that there were no recordings (not lost or destryed) Does anyone have the facts?
"Where does the arenas liability end? When she walks out the door? When she walks off the property? Suppose two guys were fighting and one got ejected and came back and shot the other in the parking lot? Suppose he shot him across the street or the next day?..."
I do not agree with Mr Marshal's " ...This lawsuit should not proceed. If the Harringtons lose they should have to pay all court costs". But he certainly has captured the article and the lawsuit's thrust.
Doyle and Gasbag's early post are certainly relevant, in my opinion. I just hate to see the comments head off course. The fact is Gil filed the lawsuit and now at least one judge will arguments. I just would like to add as hook reader said that RMC will now also have discovery.
This is a huge move for all parties. I say find the truth with depositions warrants and electronic captures of all e-mails from, to and about public institutions in possible discrepancies in this case.
On both sides, I hope the judge order full cooperation, issues warrants and allows the truth to come out. I think Gil can handle the truth, it is just that up to this time she has only seen half truths. Maybe even some intentional diversions have been in play, and intent is key!
Once Gil filed, who needs to read someones blog, does anyone think a blooger is going to get info from people deposed in this case. It will all be public or not public.
If either legal team needs to comment then let that be done properly. It is a good week for finding the truth, at least the start of more knowledge and the truth maybe underway. So sad for the 2 year mark and the pain.
Sorry Bill: did not credit, your thoughtful post:
bill marshall October 18th, 2011 | 10:13am
".... either there were cameras or there were not cameras, if there were camaeras they were either recording or not recording, if they were recording they were either destroyed or are avaialable. I recall that there were no recordings (not lost or destryed) Does anyone have the facts? .."
A major obstacle of the suit will be for the plaintif to prove that the security firm's actions or inactions actually had any bearing on what happened to MH .Actual cause of death also appears to be speculation . Accident,suicide,murder etc causes would have different implications with regard to UVA and security at the concert . There is only speculation that she was abducted . There is no time of death during or after the concert other than an educated quess . She could have been alive for days/weeks alone or voluntarily with others prior to death migrating from persons to persons during that time frame .If so ,which can not be ruled out , it would be difficult to attach blame to UVA, police ,or hired security .
Good points Frank, that is what discovery is for. We will see if they settle without depositions, I would think Gil wants to find everything she can. If it takes going to trial I believe she will do it, but there is the risk that the judge will say it is a fishing exercise.
If the offer the full amount and there are not other damages, the Judge may say that's all folks. But it seems UVA will try to avoid damages even if they are named. So, it will be interesting. The suite was filed on time and it maybe amended or not allowed.
Gil also will have to decide if the opposing party's search through discovery is worth it. Who knows what pressures she may encounter. Interesting where it was filed and I have very little experience with the Virgina civil court system, so it will be a learning experience for me.
I will not believe any speculation from a blogger we all know of. Hopefully the real press will do what they can to report facts and rulings.
I agree with the obstacles you so very well pointed out.
By the way, anyone, anyone at all, ever hear ANYTHING about the alledged "deer/hunter" cams on AF that BLINK, and only BLINK made up, errr, "reported" about?
@Why?? All that information was available via blink's site and her radio show on Scared Monkeys. She said that Sketch's DNA was on the shirt and he was "hurt" that made it obvious to me that it was blood.
@why?? I'm not the one responsible for leaking this. I heard the information on the Scared Monkeys radio program on which Blink was a guest. She laid all the information out...I'm not someone with a police connection or any inside ties.
I realized my first comment regarding the info was deleted, so I apologize for posting again, but I felt like I deserved the opportunity to defend myself. I'm not the one putting rumors out for the world to see. I was just a listener on a show that heard it, put the two and two together, etc.
http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/audio//20111018s.mp3 You can hear Blink link the info at 42:03
JAB, I think you have to be very careful about what you read by that blogger. If she had the connections to the investigation she claims to have, this whole case would be in jeopardy. Our LE is much smarter than that, thank god. I'm sure they smelled a fish when she came around. I think we all just have to be patient. It's very hard, as truthiness said somewhere above, to solve a random crime. The Harringtons may get some answers through discovery when the RMC lawyers start digging...they may get answers from Morgan's friends that they've been afraid to ask, and they may find out why she left the arena after being warned she could not come back in. We know that Morgan had been to JPJ before, she was a seasoned concert goer and music festival fan. She was not ignorant, just probably more trashed than usual, and mad for some reason at her friends. I don't think the Harringtons will win money from this lawsuit, but I don't believe that's what they're after.
http://monkeysunmasked.blogspot.com/
I think it's best to view all forms of media with an ample amount of skepticism including Blink. I'm not a card carrying member of her site. I only read there and have never once posted on it.
I appreciate the link to the blog site--I'll check that out. While I don't always agree with Blink or her tactics, I must say without her this would be a much different case. Odds are we wouldn't even know about the sketch--wasn't she the one who pressed for its release? My prolific posts were not intended to toot Blink's horn or pledge allegiance to her dedicated band of followers. Instead, they were posted to answer @why??'s question as to where I got my info. I think he was under the impression that I had an actual police source, and I do not.
Very thoughtful posts. What does the law suit mean? That VSP or Morgan's friends are not sharing info with the Harringtons, and they are pursuing it as a means to find out more about what went on at the concert? That they actually blame RMC because her inability to re-enter the arena was one factor that led to Morgan's extremely unfortunate choice of hitching a ride with a stranger? Or that the Harringtons wish to change RMC policy. If so, have they tried other means, like a letter to RMC asking for a change? Not sure what to conclude. I empathize with their anguish -- and no, I have never had a child, small or adult, murdered -- but I don't agree with some of their tactics, including pushing familial DNA (successfully, unfortunately--although as many predicted, it's done nothing to advance their case thus far). That's going to end up persecuting the innocent and uninvolved. Ah, well, they're hurting and apparently we all need to feel their pain.
Also @why?? I never said anything dishonorable about Joe Rader. I merely offered my thoughts on why someone might retire in the middle of a high profile case. It could be he's eligible or it could be a myriad of others reasons. Only Joe Rader knows, and that's how it should be. He doesn't owe us anything with regard to why he chose to retire. I hope he has a great life ahead of him as I believe him to be deserving of that. I can't say enough good things about this man. I think Joe Rader is a fine man--a hell of a lot better man than most.
For you to say I don't care about this family is also untrue. Maybe our definitions of caring are different. For example, I don't post youtube videos of Rocky on a FB page of a murdered girl for laughs or go on at length about my questionable connections to Elvis or my "should have been" singing career. However, I do keep them in my prayers and offer a thought-provoking questions or thoughts when I have one. How was I to know by posting information I heard reported on another site that you would insinuate that I had some secret source or that I was responsible for introducing this info to the world--you might want to pick that bone with Blink not me.
Also, I don't have any way to "find out" who you are @why?? Your writing style gave it away...With that said, I think your heart is in the right place and you are doing what you think is the right thing to do. I don't doubt your devotion to this family or to the ultimate goal of justice for Morgan. It is a goal we share in. I hope you can accept my apologies for re-posting information that was available via Blink and her interview on Scared Monkeys.
I am quite certain that the "friends" are not Gil's concern. Gil is very loving of Morgan's friends and what ever reasoning one might have is just made up from bloogers.
This is the huge problem, innuendo and posting names of those close to Morgan does nothing but rub salt into the wound. It is clear what the suite says, and the "friends" very well may have helped in Gil's decision. They know when, where the initial tickets were scanned. They know of everything that happened until the first act went on to there best knowledge. What they have shared with Gil is not any of our business. Gil is clear and knows what this tragedy can do to young women who lost a dear friend, roommate and almost sister.
I do see the point of the well written possibilities of the party being sued to depose the friends. That is a very valid concern, one that I am sure Gil contemplated. If I am not mistaken Gil used the word "WAR". I certainly believe the "friends" are NOT who she declared war on.
This view has been expressed that Morgan's friends should not also become residual victims of this tragedy. Why people stir that pot is so anti Morgan that the memory of Morgan perpetrated by these people is disgusting. Morgan chose her friends, Morgan was an adult for at least 12 months and I have never once been told that Gil ever asked for Morgan to stop the friendship, actually it was encouraged. Thus 4 tickets and parking.
Perhaps I know more, perhaps I do not. But, do not confuse the need for Dan to keep the case in the light and sharing Gil's notes with a blogger as Gil condoning all of the words on those blogs. Perhaps "a necessary evil" to keep the case open.
Frankly I find it shocking that gasbag does not address the accusations that the blooger directed at him. So the blooger accusing everyone. Play at Vegas and cover every number at the roulette wheel. Sure you can say "I won", but the truth is 0 and 00 means you lose.
The suite is by Gil, that is fact! Everything else is opinion including me!But I can promise you I know a lot more than that blooger!
To clarify by reading some of the well thought post by several people they too know more that that blooger. And they are not making money on it!
ross October 22nd, 2011 | 10:19am
And the tarp, do not forget the tarp and her first take on the farmer's family. Do not forget about the sculptor and his family and a well know music artist.
Morgan and her friends made some poor choices that night. However, none of the poor choices gave sketch the right to do what he did. He IMO is the real enemy---not Morgan's choices, the friends' choices, or even JPJ's, by way of outsourced security such as RMC, policies. However, I support the Harrington's decision to sue. JPJ has been in "cover our azz mode" since day one. They were so fearful of getting sued that they refused to make the parents of a murdered girl privy to what info they did have. I have no hope they were anymore helpful with L.E. If JPJ had been more forthcoming with the Harringtons early in the investigation,I highly doubt the law suit would have been filed. I hope the friends, with the weight of the world on their shoulders and two years more maturity, can and will honestly answer any questions put before them and provide any pertinent information that could help fill in some of the gray areas in this case. I hope they Harringtons get the answers they seek and pray this course of action generates information that leads straight to Sketch.
I don't know if I'm allowed to do this but I read a good post at Newsplex.com and thought I'd bring it over. Newsplex and the Hook are best at covering the facts of this case...blog sites are good for spreading rumor and unwarranted blame. Dangerous. Michael, it's true that if one casts his net wide enough he can claim to be right in the end. Everyone is guilty until proven innocent, especially those who live in the Charlottesville-Albemarle area. We're either guilty of murdering Morgan, or harboring the one who did.
by Daybreak on Oct 21, 2011 at 08:48 AM
Morgan was a college junior, she lived on her own with a roommate, she had her own car, and lastly, she was 20 years old. She was perhaps immature concerning her own safety, but she was not a child. Check out the rules for Cole Field House and Lane Stadium (VA Tech facilities) they have basically the same re-entry rules as UVA. Was Morgan totally unaware of policies at her own school? Wouldn't she and her friends even considered that the same policy would exist at UVA It's also been stated, she was warned she would not be allowed to re-enter, she left anyway after acknowledging the warning. I have to agree with someone else who wrote, for people who think this is an crazy policy, you sure must not go to large venues very often. Now if you're going to the Pavillion, maybe you can come and go as you please, but at most major sports and entertainment venues(other than race tracks) you walk out, you are not allowed to re-enter The only grounds I can even contemplate for taking this action would be that Morgan was forcibly ejected from the arena without cause, or if she was made to leave the relative safety of the immediate area surrounding the building. There's been nothing that I've read that suggests that either of these events occurred. I can understand absolutely that the Harringtons want to do everything possible to find their daughter's killer. Along with this desire to find justice, I believe they are also having a terribly hard time accepting the fact that their daughter made some incredibly bad decisions on October 17th. These decisions should have only resulted in her getting very cold and wet. Horribly, as a result of these decisions, she came in contact with a killer. He's the only one who is responsible for her death, but she, by walking out of an arena surrounded by close to 10,000 other concert attendees, put herself in a very vulnerable position.
When I was young we made poor choices. We were not denigrated and accused.
How about any one else here. JAB good thoughtful post. When my friend died a victim of a drunk driver I felt guilty because that is what young people do with their first experience of death. Then after 3 days, his wife committed suicide. Again guilt that I felt, i should have not been away from her one minute, bui see now that I could not have been there for every breath she took.
He was 20, sound familiar.
But to see Morgan's friends alive and having to deal with this tragedy is a reminder that they did not do anything to be ashamed of.
It appears, that the blooger and her disciples want to inflict more pain to Morgan's chosen friends. I have never seen Gil express anything like that that.
So, why torture them? No one knows what Rader and Dino know. I am sure Gil knows what they told her. it is all speculation about the friends, and I do not know how much more Gil can do to say they are not the focus.
There are transcripts from national TV where Gil syas they came to her home. That should be enough for the blooger. Yet, we see that the party being sued may very well pressure Gil by suggesting that the friends be deposed. posters here are so correct and it is certainly valid. However, Gil has support from so many, including me.
I will state this as fact, anyone who had interchanges on that blooger's site will be disqualified from a jury, civil or criminal. Heaven forbid a criminal trial takes place and it is found that a jury member participated on that blog. Certain dismissal on appeal, fact!
JAB, I hear you. But please open your mind, what if sketch was not the last person to be alone with her. If so, every time it is printed the last person has no reason to come forward. Remember, COD, TOD and "Murder" has never been officially stated.
The civil trial does not need for a "murder" to have been committed. Read the filing.
I agree, Michael, about the friends. This is a nightmare they may never be able to shake. On a normal night of college-aged concert-going partying, the most that might have happened to Morgan was getting cold and wet. No one could have predicted this outcome. Not the friends, not the RMC employees, not Dr. and Mrs. Harrington, and not anyone who encountered Morgan that night except the person who ultimately killed her. We don't even know when she met up with him.
JAB, thank you for your explanation. I had no idea it had been mentioned on a radio show. However, the videos of Rocky happen to be a favorite of Morgan's father. Again, thanks so much for coming back and explaining that. That took an awfully big person to that. Hope your weekend is going well.
hook reader October 22nd, 2011 | 9:35pm
[hope I am crediting right]
by Daybreak on Oct 21, 2011 at 08:48 AM
'"The only grounds I can even contemplate for taking this action would be that Morgan was forcibly ejected from the arena without cause, or if she was made to leave the relative safety of the immediate area surrounding the building.'"
I think with some certainty that this is a possibility that Gil wants to visit.
From The Stir: An article entitled "5-Year-Old Black Girl Disappears and No One Cares."
http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/127539/5yearold_black_girl_disapp...
cookie: no doubt about it, point well received.
Gil has worked for many years to aid children, but I see your point. The suite filed unfortunately will not allow for Gil's efforts to be a factor. Certainly you know by now what Gil has done and continues to do for all disadvantaged children no only on this continent.
I could tell you about how she aided parents that were of color in Virgina, but it seems to be an exercise not worthy of lowering the level of conversation to your level!
Ode on a Grecian Urn
... When old age shall this generation waste,
Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say'st,
'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'
Gil is my age, she can handle the truth.
Maybe she cannot change the whole world's injustice, but she is speaking and has been with actions more than words for a long time preceding this tragedy.
To try to be cute, and to imply anything other than she is also a mother of a young lady deceased and ti imply that if she could she would not correct all in her power about disadvantaged people of any color is in extremely bad taste
So use freedom of speech to get your point across and good for you.
Would the "Hook" comment on Rader's future?
I have spoken to him many times, met with his team in my home. He is a true professional, always stressed to me that it is a team. The FBI certainly expressed a fondness for him. There is no doubt in my mind that he is devoted to all victims and he only wants to focus the team on facts and first hand witnesses.
Yes, he maybe very candid, and that is what he should be. He is comfortable with his experience and if you should ever have a chance to know him would find him quite a professional with a very human side. I have no idea if he is retiring, but I strongly believe he would not if he did not have faith in his team.
I have come to like the man, I wish him the very best. I wish he would stay, but not my call. It is not an easy job, you have to read hard to find his, [as he would insist - his teams ] accomplishments. Seems only the negatives get reported.
I too was very critical of him, but he engaged and not to impress me, yet he did.
A fine man, very fine man! VSP is well represented by him. There are things he did to assist maybe more than assist on removing a very high profile criminal.
But, that ain't his style to take credit. If only you knew?
A very good man, I wish he had worked on my family's closed case. If so, I would sleep much better.
Thank you Lt. Joe Radar. A pleasure to have encountered you!
JAB:
woe woe woe! I use my real name, I do not hide so before you do this:
"@why?? Your writing style gave it away"
I will give you my address and you can call me.
I could care less who "why" is. But you want to flush that poster out, then what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
I know history and I know that Jefferson printed material using false names, so I can not win that argument, but what I can do is tell you exactly who I am. So I challenge you like a Tennessee man, print who you are, or explain to us exactly who you are accusing "why" of being.
These games are so derailing. It is a serious issue. A mother who's child died!
Real life, not TV drama. She hurts, she cries and you play games! We know who Gil is, I give my real name.
Time for people to stand behind what they print!
The beauty of discovery in a law suite! A judge can give all access to all IP's and IPS's.The real newspapers like "The Hook" can present their case, as they should. But ultimately in a civil case in Federal Court, defaming someone one will allow for parties to be privy to those who post on pages that are viewed across state lines.
When someone is accused, the courts always allow for that party to have every conceivable access to information. Right to fair a trial trumps every amendment, period!
JAB, you opened the door! As any Judge will state, once you open the door what comes in is what you invited and it is admissible.
DO NOT TREAT THIS AS A GAME!
jab, one correction: the blogger didn't press for the release of the sketch -- feeling the need to scoop everyone, she blurted it out before the police had time to conclude their investigations. Until it was released, the perp was blissfully unaware that the police knew of his connection to the case; she felt the need to give the bad guy a heads up. For all we know, that drove him underground and made Rader's job harder. It was irresponsible.
The blooger was set-up by her own hats, I have the e-mails detailing it. She bit hook line and sinker. Rader knew as soon as she posted. Her source was not LE , just someone that suckered here. That person got even, VSP did not find any of it amusing and the e-mail were shared. So it up to you people to decide if she is credible at all. I did not participate in it, but time stamped for VSP!
The blooger was set-up by her own hats, I have the e-mails detailing it. She bit hook line and sinker. Rader knew as soon as she posted. Her source was not LE , just someone that suckered here. That person got even, VSP did not find any of it amusing and the e-mail were shared. So it is up to you people to decide if she is credible at all. I did not participate in it, but time stamped for VSP!
Michael -- that's very interesting. I do hope they let her know they were not amused. I wonder why the authorities haven't slapped her down. Seems to me they could send a strong message about the importance of not interfering with an investigation.
She acted shocked that he was not invited on the walk thru with real reporters.
Her own editors set her up.
Rader just has more important things to do, I understand him. He will not get involved with civil suites and his job is tough enough. This is her game, she incites them, then she can try to go for discovery. She wants and has been shopping a cable TV show.
She absolutely has posters that describe the shapes of black men's heads. The poster stated he worked and walked amongst them so he can make judgements upon their behavior. Now, really! Gil gives part of her life to people in Africa and this relic of Texas acts as if men of darker skin are like animals in a zoo that he can study for amusement.
Perhaps Gil has much more important things to do, and God bless her. But if she were to read this stuff would she ask Dan not to feed the blogger.
I hoped that Cat would tell her, but really should Gil's family have to monitor that site. Cannot blame them till now. Please Gil and Cat look into this and ask, do you want Morgan's name associated with that blogger?
I am not kidding you. It is so disgusting that now her and he are looking at slavery and trying to associate the sketch in some way, not sure how with Thomas Jefferson or his brother.
I mean you cannot believe this. She says point blank that Morgan and her friend bought Metallica T-shirts for each other. Absolutely suggesting that Morgan may have worn the Metallica shirt after the Pantera shirt. She was informed that the Metallica shirts were accounted for, which I knew as fact for many months.
Then she with one comment, says oops! But did not change her piece. Just as she denies that she ever suggested that Pham and sketch and Morgan were linked.
But get this, in the wording of the link it says http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/01/morgan-harrington-murder-breaking-new...
Now read the verbage in the link:
morgan-harrington-murder-breaking-news-virginia-state-police-to-announce-link-to-vanessa-pham-case
I cannot make this up, it is mind boggling.
She is absolutely out of control and just me telling you will lead to her getting more hits.
Like Gil does not have enough to deal with, but as long as she can she will imply that Gil thinks she is best thing to sliced bread.
Seriously, you fill in the blanks!
Where is J.me or Cat to suggest to Gil or Dan to stop this nonsense and allowing of Morgan's named being associated with such vile statements.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/01/morgan-harrington-murder-breaking-new...
Hate to even tempt you to hit the link, please do give her more hits. But read the words in the link.
Now really, see how we get frustrated. Even on this real newspaper good posters comment about the release of the sketch, but BUT
NO ONE NOTICED the link. She clearly states that VSP has a link of Morgan to Vanessa. That is absolutely a fabricated lie that even her editors did not set up.
Read her lips, she is the owner of the site!
She is in control? Is this not an absolute lie? You judge!
Believe it or not there are at least 7 times where she gives names, addresses and work information on people.
Michael, yes, I laughed when she recently tried to back away from her earlier Pham assertion (though you'll note in the same defensive reply, she also says that a connection has NOT been ruled out -- she's a slippery weasel! Classic forked tongue.). I do wonder why named people have not sued her. The only one who must have gotten close is kickee. She was on the verge of outing him and suddenly backed off. Even her minions noticed her abrupt change of heart, though she denied it. Whatever he said to her, it must have been GOOD. I applaud him. I think she was vile to name which friend in particular allegedly let Morgan go to the bathroom by herself. Can you imagine how she will be harassed by the overzealous mogo-lovers out there? So irresponsible.
Boink ---The Mad Dog of The Internet who brags about having no scruples may have engineered a big get out of town for a central person of interest re:MH . Many have been horrified at the character and institution assination she profits from . The specific case of her meddling in the investigation in the release of the sketch is a low that she is trying her best to out-do with her crazy African slave trade nonsense.Any advertisers,police,or relatives of victums that turn to a person with no ethics such as Boink for help will generally just get more problems .She now claims to be witholding investigative sensitive material from her sheeple . What investigative material could she legally be holding and where were those constrictions when she was blabbing about the Fairfax case connection ?
These are facts! Not suggestions, I stand behind these facts with my real name and it is about time someone did so we can put that blogger behind us and discuss rationally about the events, education, Gil's efforts and anything that any one wants to discuss.
Free speech, note: "I know it when I see it"!
That blogger is: you fill it in.
And how does that slavery angle even make any sense given the Fairfax case? He certainly didn't attack whitey in that case, or try to leave a body on massa's land. Or in her imagination, was that what he was planning all along? Honestly, two data points are not enough to conclude much about this fellow. Like Gil, I hate that a third may be needed before he is caught.
I'm glad she still smarts not only from not being invited to the walkthrough, but from actively being BANNED from it. haha, I guess that's one way VSP got even with her.
I hear you, has it been ruled out that John Kennedy shot himself in the head in Texas?
Well, I guess if no one asked it has not been ruled out, right?
Frank, it's such a crackup when she throws around the term "case sensitive." Since she can't write or spell, she probably is too stupid to know it actually refers to capitalization. It's like her ridiculous use of 'unsub' in attempt to sound like a pro of some kind. She's laughable.
Like Michael, I feel bad for the Harringtons to have to hold their nose and include her in their email blasts, which she then uses to look like a beloved insider.
Please Gil I beg you or your lawyer to issue a statement in private or public to formally distance your self from that blogger! Please Cat or J.me get this message to her, I am NOT a lawyer but it seems the actions you are taking will be reduced to a mockery without it.
It was never my intent to give the other side in your case any ammo, but it is high time someone stated the facts about that blogger. If you need my screen shots of all communication I am here as I think these other posters are. There is much more.
This article and the comments from others than me are for the most part well written and I think the other posters have even more relevant info.
This does relate to the article and I hope it is well received.
I put it on the line, I want the truth! My name my statements so I ask others to condemn the filth!
@michael sutton Why and I don't have any beef. It was a misunderstanding. I recognized his writing style and immediately knew who he was. I was NEVER threatening to out him on here. I think he knows that. While I don't always agree with everything why says or does, I believe him to be a fine man of upstanding character. He wants this case solved as much as anyone does! I would never divulge anyone's identity on here--that's a fact.
Truthiness----- I expect Boink was barred from Anchorage Farm by the owner .LE no doubt have their reasons to bar her but LE has to mingle with all sorts . If you recall she origionally tried to paint a picture of suspicion against Mr Bass of all people . Her crap about the thousands of years old African slave system is just more of her trumped up slander against Anchorage Farm and it's owner .
@michael sutton Did you see where Texas Grandfather was analyzing Morgan's make-up and offering his opinion that she looked better without it? He even went so far as to suggest all she ever needed was a light brown eyeshadow and a pale red lipstick. That was a new low of his in my opinion. His posts always make me roll my eyes, but who give post-mortem make-up commentary?
@michael sutton I had forgotten about that tarp. Now she said on Scared Monkeys that there was no evidence that this was even a homicide until the body was closely examined--makes me think there was no tarp. Also, she made a huge deal about Morgan's boots and "special socks" being missing--now she says it is just her camera and her necklace. Did the boots walk up to New Jersey and find Blink or were they never missing?
l also remember a hippie man that drove a van and hung out with an ER nurse that posed in his videos. I believe the man was on Morgan's myspace and he had an rv, so Blink suspected him of wrongdoing. It was never made clear to me if he was even AT the Metallica show that night. I believe she posted both of their names and workplaces. I remember at the time being so appalled for them, because as Blink would say they just didn't register on my "hinkymeter."
JAB:
I try to look away when I see that name. Last I saw he got in hot water about saying woman's place in the 30's was in the home. Was not my place to correct him, but I sure was glad when the poster fired back.
That is he only regret I have about that site. There are some good people over there, kind of like Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Leslie Van Houten. Just being led by a _____________. And lets not forget ole TEX1
I so wish gasbag would remember what they wrote about him and his! Maybe he did the same thing Kickee did. He did pop up over there and maybe he was satisfied. But the Musicians, the firemen, the farmer's family, the plumber, the BnB, the neighbors, the initialized ones what 30 or so. Every spelling of a family name, police men, who else, I forget. she even got Dave M. in there. Anything for a buck right? Oh the club, almost forgot that slap at a family member, refresh me there only about 200 more people she named or implied. But the tree cameras got that all, she said. lets see real-estate, remember she point out a D. Haringon was nominated to the land board or something like that.
Bre____. Shif___, Whi___, ABC>>>>XYZ.
The guy in the cheese suit, now that was from inside sources we were told! And there was her loyal poster cinniman or spice, the roadies [ I love Jackson Brown], jump in here, EMTs, grounds keepers, her big foot, not to be confused with the one at the bottom this page [ sorry fella ], helicopters, pilots, come on jump in.
So let me get this straight, she thought gasbag that posts on here was an actual suspect?
I respect Gasbag, better for him to answer, but it is on her site that someone with a real name very very similar drove a car that looked to be a unmarked police car. That may have given some girl the impression that the driver was a person that could imply he was an authority figure and that some one might just jump in for a ride.
Then someone with a very similar real name got wind that she was giving out the rout that certain young relative of said person with similar name took going to high school.
Questioning parenting skills and such, but maybe, just maybe that authority figure spelled his name with 1 f or 2 f's not sure. Seems that the blogger ceased and that authority figure type name was not used again, just reminds me of outing kickee which anyone could find in 2009, but none of us would ever give up the one eye witness that was sure to be called, except the blogger in question.
NO way in heck would Gasbag be involved, and I wish you would just look at her site, because it is so wrong, wrong, wrong. He seemed satisfied, who knows. I hope he got tons of New Jersey money !
I've looked at the site off and on over the years--here lately it has been the only one I know of still discussing the case. It used to have a lot more good posters like Observer, Dakota, etc. I think they must have been burned by the process or just got tired of her way of doing things. I don't blame them. I see all these wrongs, and I don't condone them, but she does get certain info that isn't public knowledge--that is undeniable. My question is how? Does LE really have ppl that talk to her? If so, how is she not charged with interfering with an investigation?
look at the title of this link, also it should be the one
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/01/28/morgan-harrington-murder-rumors-of-a-...
I see the posts of that individual that committed suicide. It saddens me no one in his family realized he needed help. If it is indeed true he committed suicide--I've never heard that confirmed just hinted at.
Well he died, in L.A. that is fact but has nothing to do with this article or even that blogger. But, I understand your thoughtful concern and I suggest we let him rest in peace.
Thank you for confirming his death--may he indeed rest in peace. I am reading through the comments of said article and already WT, a man with a wheelchair van, EH and other RSO, and a White living on Red Hill Road have been brought up at possible suspects. If this is the type of b.s. LE has to sort through in this case it is no wonder it is unsolved.
I'd also like to apologize to @why?? for the snarkiness of one of my responses posted yesterday evening. Reading that back, I am ashamed of myself for even bringing some of those things up. @why?? is a fine man, and I respect that he is overprotective of this family. He thought that I was leaking information, and he did not know at the time of his post that I got my info from Blink. He thought I was leaking it, and he had every right to say what he said. Like I said earlier today, I think @why?? is a fine person. If a family member or friend of mine ever came up missing, I'd hope to have someone like @why?? to be my ally as I know he has no doubt carried this family through some of their darkest days. I apologize for being hyper-sensitive when @why?? said I didn't care for the family as I have grown to care immensely for this family over the last 2 years. Sadly, I think I like them better than some of my own family lol I would never in a gazillion years want to add any more pain to their already unimaginable burden. I hope @why?? will accept my sincere and heartfelt apology for the reposting of info as well as my snarky response.
JAB, I've noticed that some of the stuff she gets that's not public knowledge is of dubious accuracy. I suspect that poor Observer of UVA was suckered into leaking some stuff early on, before she (or her employers) caught on -- but who knows how accurate it was. The other stuff she allegedly gets from insiders is probably just stuff her 'team' invents. At least she did admit to having made up the speculation about the black tarp -- she had to be called on it, but she would confess to inventing it when pressed.
Since the crazy slavery thing is oddly driving her sycophants to look further instead of to run screaming, I guess we'll be seeing that bizarre angle being explored for a bit. Hey, it drives clicks, and clicks get her moolah, all the better to support her chillen (google her sometime -- it's fun).
I didn't know Observer worked at UVA. Interesting. I always enjoyed her posts and wondered why she stopped posting. Fish, Skyler and Dakota too. I remember the big controversy when someone suggested they were the same person. I do not believe them to be one in the same. As much as I dislike some of the stuff that goes on over there, there are a few posters I genuinely enjoy reading their posts--the only reason I go back. I don't know if I buy that Blink is just in it for the glory/money, but I can see why someone would think that she was...I think it is evident she thinks highly of the Harringtons and if anyone mentions Morgan in a negative light or is blatantly disrespectful it isn't posted. I think she has a heart and goes about it in entirely a different way than I would if I was her...I've always wondered what went down to get Trisha to ban her from WebSleuths? I adore Trisha and from what I know about her she is a stand-up person. Blink is certainly no wordsmith, and I've noticed my own writing ability/vocabulary has taking a hit since I started reading over there--I internalize what I read it seems. Someone get me some good literature STAT lol
JAB, lol at the "literature, stat"! Generous of you to think that 'advocacy' matters to her, but if you look at the site she spun off from, and the dubious techniques that got her banned from WS (posting under various 'hats' -- pretending to be different personas, but also doing more shady stuff -- google it, it's all out there), and its success with natalee holloway, I think you'll eventually conclude that she figured out the formula for driving clicks. She does tend to overstep her bounds, for instance actually trying to file something in the casey anthony case-- hilarious in its ignorance -- but mostly she just looks for clicks. Why do you REALLY think she snapped up the caylee's law web addys? Going for .com, where a serious advocate would go with dot org. She's commercial. and btw, apropos of nothing, she hates women's lib. She's backwards and vile.
JAB with all do respect really/
"...but she does get certain info that isn't public knowledge--that is undeniable. My question is how? ..."
Explain this point blank answer to a direct question
"February 1, 2010 at 10:06 pm
Blink:
How could they prove the shirt was her’s. Normal sweat or would blood or hair be needed?
I can walk down the street and in 3 places I can buy a Pantera T-shirt....
Not Morgan’s.
B
Get that, we knew it had been identified, we knew that the reason for waiting was not to test just for Morgan's DNA but others. Yet there she is stating as fact the t-shirt found on the bush was not Morgan's.
Now, why would she do that? Did this help VSP?
Michael, couldn't blinky just have been dead wrong? She's going down insisting that her sources are right that it was found on Nov 5 instead of Nov 11 because she needs it to fit her timeline showing that the shirt was 'planted' to derail a search. She's so silly.
Here is more of what you say is accurate
February 1, 2010 at 10:16 pm
'....No discernable images of Morgan on that video per VSP, multiple sources- confirmed.
A shirt, resembling one Morgan was wearing, was found, and imo was an orchestration and is not Morgan’s.
B
...."
That is her statement in black and white.
I didn't know about the caylee's law web addy, but I agree it should have been a .org. I avoided the Casey Anthony mess long before it went to trial. I'm not entirely sure why. Actually, Morgan's case is the only case I have followed there. I had read there before Morgan due to the Tracy Ocacio case. I notice it is a theme over there that she'll promise "Part II," etc. then she'll never follow up with it. I have noticed in another high profile case catches the attention of the nation, she'll post that instead of posting what she promised. I also find this new slave trade connection a little silly.
But the question is why does it matter when? If she says it was not the one Morgan was wearing and please explain this:
who is she suggesting planted a shirt that looked like Morgan's but was not Morgan's ?
No read it carefully, and ask why would she suggest that while VSP was pleading for accurate tips she put this out there. If she really knew Gil she would have asked her, Gil knew! She knew as a 2nd person did for a fact it is Morgan's.
So please explain why would the blogger do that, then my friend you start to see just what needs to be distanced from.
@michael sutton I am no Blink-defender. I know she's been wrong several times as I posted earlier. However, there have been a few times she has been right. When I posted about what I heard on her radio show, it ruffled some feathers and was deleted--I'm guessing that meant it was right? Also, she knew the necklace has not been found before the police issued the photo of the necklace, etc. Those are the things that come to mind when I made my previous statement. Again, I'm not pro-Blink. I find a lot of what she does to be downright wrong.
JAB: her info is not right half of the time. When she does get it, I have known about, weeks before. It is not hard, read ask questions.
I could show things that she has done to set up her revelations.
Her own editors and some off the people you mentioned where doing her bidding until 3 of them got wind to it. Then they contacted me and a couple of people, they expressed they felt dirty and cheapened by their association with her.
A few got a couple of more, 2 ladies just dropped her association but the others, well 2 of them are still posting and she adores them. That is how we know exactly what she is doing, you think we did not know what her last article was?
By the way "Two Women Two Locations.."
A lot of info on that other woman, did you not ask? Ever think she had to adjust after she came up with headline. She trained people to use soft programs and then they use it on her.
Just go her min page and look at the bottom "sitemeter" want your ISP it will be therefor all to see. Then all you need is cooperation from one of the other sites administer or level 2 or even 3. Bingo, you know where her posters are from, when, you see their screen names as they move to other sites you see them make other comments.
She is smoke and mirrors my friend! But I hope Gil gets this info and stops associating with that site, actually I have never seen Gil post there, it just has the appearance.
JAB come back from the "Dark Side" the force is with you.
All very interesting. Thanks for all of your info. I have noticed the Harringtons don't post there much anymore, but I did see where their organization posted a link to their story on their Facebook page.
This was posted on ABC, national news not local:
"...Surveillance cameras at the concert caught Harrington getting turned away from several entrances as she tried to return to the conert. Later, witnesses told police they saw someone matching her description in a nearby grassy parking lot, and then walking on an adjacent road..."
I think this relates to the article.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/morgan-harrington-family-prays-justice-slain-vi...
JAB: your favorite site
"February 1, 2010 at 9:31 pm
...........
Not the family whatsoever. Let’s leave it at this: not Morgan’s shirt, was similar, should never have been reported as such anywhere. Unless of course you read here, where we all thought it was BS instantly.
B
Michael, do you think it's accurate that the (or a) dna link to the Fairfax assault was found on the shirt? I know it's stated as such in the above article, but we've seen misreporting in this case, so I'm never sure what to believe. If it is true, I wonder what the source is. A hair? Or bodily fluid? The latter would be more damning, I imagine, as it would be harder to come by through casual contact.
OT: Any updates on this man? I don't think he has a thing to do with Morgan, but I feel sorry for the people of New Jersey with this man in their communities. How could you sleep at night? He has done his time and hasn't been charged...http://readthehook.com/86065/cover-glenn-barker-serial-killer-or-convenient-scapegoat
I am quite sure there were test done on multiple areas of concern. There may be more than we know, there were also reports about limited amounts of a sample. But that could be from the 2005 victim.
I would wait for official release before coming to conclusions. I just know that I personally would feel better if Barry Scheck and FBI and DFS all were examining everything possible.
But that may not be possible. I do believe that Federal and State labs both were involved in the looking at findings of he 2005 specimen or specimens. I am not suggesting that both collected the evidence or did actual test but that results were checked and cross checked. Keep in mind .that the one they call the East Coast Rapist brought multiple agencies in. That is another reason that any speculation is best left for official release.
One can imagine that we may have had multiple people in a area of cross- over or overlap. So that points out the reasons to not speculate. Keep in mind that the East Coast Rapist trial / trials, findings and interviews are not complete. It is very important to not take a rumor and apply it to fit a certain desired outcome.
Just like the bicycles and the FBI involvement in Morgan's case the week after the discovery the FBI has been involved, but they do recognize VSP as the lead. Things like electronic transactions, any-type of telecommunications and other highly specialized tools of the FBI would likely be available.
I think this law suite is very much needed. I feel that the early days of this nightmare were so badly handled that you must start with the first agency in proximity to where she was known to have been.
I have issues with some reporting and I have had to deal with just skipping over some words to maintain intellectual objectivity. I still see no reason they print the word "Murder" unless it is quote from Gil ad his taken in context. VSP is clear. I still have not seen on VSP's website that Rader is retiring. I would like to see exactly what source "DNA recovered from the black t-shirt Harrington was wearing" is.
Not that I believe it not to be the case, but it leaves the impression that nothing was found anywhere else. In court or in legal offices Gil will be able to see most of what she should so rightfully see. If they stonewall her, I hope that a good judge allows her lawyers to take it to the mat.
It is a start.
I'd also be very surprised if there aren't more connections than just the Fairfax case. You think Sketch just chilled out for 4 years before he escalated this to murder? I'd say there are no doubt DNA connections that are being kept close to the vest. I might add that is my own opinion and absolutely nothing more...
JAB, since there have been no other dna hits in the past 4 years, I do actually think we can rule out any matches being hidden. The Fairfax police would have acted on those (or been involved with other agencies whose unknown DNA matched the Fairfax one). We know the dna from Morgan and Fairfax was not a hit for the East Coast rapist. Not saying we can be certain that the fairfax assailaint sat idle for 4 years, just that he either left no dna, or victims have not come forward (or been found), or that the dna is sitting somewhere unprocessed. That last one seems unlikely to me, but who knows. You do hear of backlogs. We also know that at least in Virginia he has no close kin in the system, as familial testing has not produced any hits.
We don't know enough about the perp and what makes him tick. We don't even know how the first attack would have ended had he not been interrupted.
Does something set him off that makes him take it out on the nearest vulnerable woman? Is it an irresistible impulse? Is he more careful about his dna since Morgan's attack? Did he disgust himself by killing her, so much so that he's sworn off his attacks altogether? Was he cruising the streets looking for victims that night, or could he simply not pass up the chance when a vulnerable Morgan climbed willingly into his car, if that's what happened?
We don't really even know whether the perp is from Virginia, much less Fairfax or Charlottesville, just that he's been to each place at least once (maybe twice, depending on the provenance of the shirt). Maybe he's from out of state. Maybe he lives equidistant from both places. Maybe his job or something else takes him up and down the 29 corridor. Lots and lots of unknowns make it very difficult to solve.
Truthiness provides an excellent analysis of the facts thus far. With the exception of one erroneous (but unimportant to the investigation) assumption, he is on-point.
Readers would be wise to pay close attention to his reasoning with regard to Sketch, the DNA, Morgan's assailant, and evidence that has been verified by LE versus conjecture, rumor and innuendo.
I get what you're saying, but one has to remember how hesitant they were to release the 2005 sketch in the first place...
JAB what you say is "hesitant" is your opinion. I say professional, do you know what all happened in those days when the blogger said that Pham was linked to Morgan and he sketch. People were posting on cell phones on various blogs that they were following men of color on the highways and in traffic on service streets.
Vigilantes, is what she created People thought she was credible and that the sketch had stabbed Miss Pham earlier in the week.
So "hesitant", I beg to differ. That blogger has no regard for truth, does she correct her many many many mistakes? VSP is professional, granted they came in after the fact, granted UVA police asked them to. One could see that VSP did get control of the situation and the public does not know some of what they did to protect the citizens without starting a panic.
Could they have done better IF they were there in the first 48 hours of-course. If, IF, IF. As Rader told me and I will not share very much, but he said someone writing that they had a vision that the body would be found within a 15 to 25 mile radius means nothing.
Imagine having to filter the so called tips into what are valid. Searches nor done by VSP, my have led to disinformation. To the average person it sounds great that the community gathered it was very much a show of support but VSP did not handle the list of what to look for.
VSP is not responsible for what happened to Morgan, they are human and they try to keep emotion to a minimum, so they conduct investigations to all of the crimes, not just Morgan and yes to the deaths of people of color, poor people, disadvantaged people a well as people a little better of and yes the rich.
The link stated " morgan-harrington-murder-breaking-news-virginia-state-police-to-announce-link-to-vanessa-pham-case" that is a fact that she published that and that link was shared by so many people.
It is not true now is it. It is a lie! Irresponsible and it could have cause the panic to result in the lynching of people. So, did VSP announce a link to Vanessa Pham? Did they?
Now very rarely do you hear some one even mention what this did the Pham family. Can you possible imagine that. VSP was put in the position of putting her family first and so maybe you think they were hesitant. Not to mention the thoughts of all victims families that maybe, just maybe VSP was going to find hope were the whole thing was a farce!
How many more times, the tarp, the Pantera shirt, the Metallica shirt, Pham, descendents of slaves. Why would any one defend her or not condemn her.
What is next, what do you look for next from her. What do you expect VSP to do? You think that blogger is helping the memory of Morgan Dana Harrington, really?
JAB, I don't know that they were hesitant to release the sketch, so much as (and they have told us this much) that they were not yet ready, because they had not completed their behind-the-scenes investigations, which they were attempting to do in relative secrecy while the guy in the sketch had no idea they were on to him. They hadn't had a chance to meet in person with the Fairfax detectives due to summer vacation schedules. They hadn't had a chance to ask Bass or others if the sketch was familiar to them. They were planning to do those things (well, at least the former), and who knows what else, but the big mouthed blogger had to spill the beans, tripping over herself in so much of a rush that she even made that colossal Pham blunder by connecting Morgan to the wrong Fairfax case. She may have forever changed the complexion of the case with that ignorant and selfish move. But hey, she got clicks (= money in the bank) to show off her "age progressed" version. (Ooh, look, he gets a wrinkle. Wow.) So I guess that's why she thinks it was worth it.
I'm not defending Blink. I just assume since there were reasons they weren't ready to release the Sketch, there could be reasons they do not want to disclose other DNA connections. Same logic applies.
Of course, there could not be any other DNA connections. Nobody knows for sure except those working the case, possibly the Harringtons, and...Sketch.
JAB, Of Course your defending her you do every chance you get. As a matter of fact I think you are indeed one of her biggest supporter.
Truthiness, You said it all........clicks = money in the bank. I hope it was worth it once this goes to trial and all these blunders are used against this case.
@Mallorie, If you'd read my posts you would indeed see that I have criticized Blink on many occasions and supplied a list of people she has erroneously tried to pin this crime on since the very beginning. I don't hate Blink, and I read there. If I am one of her biggest supporters, she's in trouble because I don't agree with her or her tactics 75% of the time.
JAB, You sure could have fooled me.
@Mallorie I don't post to please you or anyone else. I couldn't care less if you think I AM Blink in the flesh sitting here typing this. I am sick of talking about Blink honestly. I'd rather focus on the article. Hawes and Courtney post these great articles and somehow the comments lose sight of the article. I'm as guilty as the next person for OT discussion. However, this will be my last comment on this article. I hope to see @Michael Sutton and @Truthiness on the next article.
JAB, you say...((((.If you'd read my posts you would indeed see that I have criticized Blink on many occasions and supplied a list of people she has erroneously tried to pin this crime on since the very beginning. I don't hate Blink, and I read there. If I am one of her biggest supporters, she's in trouble because I don't agree with her or her tactics 75% of the time.)))
OK, lets say Blink is WRONG 75% of the time, and that she blamed the crime incorrectly on so many people. WHO are these people whom you have 100% ruled out?
How do you know this? To know who did not commit the crime, you must know who did commit the crime. If I were you, I would tell LE or the Harrington's and collect the reward money. Then you could put your money where your mouth is.
If you do not in fact know who committed the crime, I suggest you continue to criticise
Blink, and keep track of who agrees with you. You could also go around saying horrendous
things about the Harringtons too, and gradually, bit by bit, you might discover clues from other similar minds. Like attracts like. You could be a winner yet!!!
@AICBond the list of people that Blink has mentioned erroneously can be found if you scroll up. @michael sutton listed a great deal of the people. Even WT who created the FB page has been under the microscope on her site. I think you can rule out a great deal of these folks as they look nothing like sketch. He is no doubt not Caucasian-looking in his appearance. Sure, these ppl could have knowledge or be involved with the crime in some capacity. It's highly unlikely IMO. I don't even know why I'm dignifying this with a response...
Furthermore, @AICBond I have NEVER nor would I EVER say anything negative about the Harringtons. They are the among the finest people I've had the pleasure of meeting. They are beyond reproach. They can do no wrong in my eyes.
Perhaps it would be good to get back on topic...maybe take a lesson from Jane Vance. Her gentle expression through her words and painting are a wonderful example. I personally would like to see a whole comment section with people's reaction to that painting and poem. There is a multitude of meaning in there.
I'm not artistically inclined, so I fail to appreciate the painting in ways that others might. It is obviously crafty by a skilled artist. I first noticed the jewelry. I remember the bracelet as pictures of it appeared in various newspapers as it was on Morgan's remains. There were close-up shots of Gil wearing it. I enjoy looking at the gorgeous creatures. Animals are special. I remember reading in Gil's blog about how she envisioned the birds weaving Morgan's hair into their nests to fortify it. Such a beautiful thought. I do recognize this painting to be an extremely kind gesture on behalf of Ms. Vance.
Morgan and her subsequent death obviously touched Ms. Vance a great deal and it is great that she has this creative outlet to express herself. Maybe she'll sell some prints and donate it to the charitable organization that is building the school in Morgan's memory.
I've wondered what the bees signify.
So one would say that the artwork will be introduced into the civil trial?
J.Me maybe you could find a better picture that clearly shows the painting and link it here. The one above is hard to see. Also, I'd be interested to hear your take on the painting and the poem.
Michael, what is allowed to be brought to a civil trial? I can see the painting being introduced during the sentencing phase of a criminal trial (potentially), to demonstrate how beloved the decedent was -- do you think that type of thing is done? But at the civil trial, I think they need to prove that the actions (or inaction) of RMC ultimately led to Morgan's demise -- in this case by failing to protect her from herself. One question will be, did she get wobblier and less coherent as she cruised across the parking lot, or was she like that inside? There's a good possibility she acted straighter for security than she did shen she was out in the lot and more carefree.
Does RMC control the parking lot, and should they have intervened at that point? Where does their responsibility start and stop?
A judge has authority. If the parties are not happy appeals.
A reasonable person can see that by even suggesting a poem or a painting be introduced into a civil trial would open the door to every poem. Every poem would certainly bode well for the those that Gil's attorneys seek damages from in this trial.
Any good attorney would then go for the association of Dan and the blogger if poems, painting and other nonfactual material were allowed in.
Thus the problem. Poems have be a source of some speculation and I do not think Gil's attorneys want to go there, that is my opinion. Someone reading here needs to make sure Gil knows what that blogger prints, it is very conceivable that she and hers maybe asked if they condone the blogger.
Racism and false accusations are certainly something that Gil should not be associated with.
Perhaps I read the articles wrong , but I do not see mother asking for sympathy but a mother asking for facts.
And fact is that blogger suggest she is very close to Gil's husband, may keep Gil from getting the trial she wants and deserves.
I worry that Gil's comments in the C-ville Weekly (issue #23.43), where she talks about how, were she to win the $3.5M in damages, that "funding" could be used to do a lot of good in the world (Zambia, helpsavethenextgirl, etc.) will make this seem like a play for cash rather than a quest for the truth or to drive policy change or something.
Quoted from the story:
Should they receive $3.5 million in damages from RMC Events, Gil Harrington said her family would endow the Morgan Dana Harrington Memorial Scholarship at Virginia Tech’s Carillion School of Medicine, as well as support costs for keeping up HelpSaveTheNextGirl.com and a medical orphanage in Zambia.
“We did not do this lightly,” said Gil Harrington about the lawsuit. “We did it with great trepidation. But I think we can make changes in the world with that funding, and that made it worthwhile.”
Interestingly, Gil refers to her family as "worker bees" in this article -- perhaps answering my question as to the significance of the bees in the Vance painting.
The other thing of note in that story is that -- although he gets the wording all twisted -- the author seems to say that the dna came from Morgan's remains (he says body, and he calls it 'familial dna', obviously not understanding that term). So who knows. Perhaps it came from the shirt, the remains, or both places.
Truthiness October 25th, 2011 | 1:41pm
"...But at the civil trial, I think they need to prove that the actions (or inaction) of RMC ultimately led to Morgan's demise..."
I think you are right, and maybe she was escorted out, if so then why to reports that should have been let back in if she had a ticket?
But then who reported that? See that is justification for the discovery phase in my opinion. But it up to the Judge. I know of lawyers that thrive on just such opportunities for the truth. I do not know much about her Attorney or if he will be the Virgina Attorney in chair with another specialist perhaps from another state.
On he other article The Hook asked Gil some questions, good questions. But I do think the time has come to ask Gil about the association with the blogger, I certainly believe it is relevant as to what this trial is going to be about. Is it for facts or sympathy.
I wish Gil the very best in the search! I am pointing this out to help her and with Morgan in mind. Please distant yourself from the hate that blogger prints.
Some may say she does not need my help, then it is about time someone else helps her to see what I think the judge will see.
Here's a question I've been wondering about--What effect will the location of the trial have on the outcome of the trial if any at all? What are the benefits/disadvantages to that decision? That is assuming the trial will be held in Roanoke--I'm ignorant as to how that all works.
Truthiness October 25th, 2011 | 2:10pm
Reporter report what they hear and read. If VSP or a lab released that info then the agency in charge should show the findings.If we are dealing with public funds for the lab work.
If no one leaked it, then it is speculation. What is possible is that one of the "possible" recovery sites would be much much harder to test, thus maybe even a different lab with a much longer process, who knows if it was human DNA only they do. Who knows if there is DNA associated with someone other than the two we know about. If he shirt was planted seems likely a 3rd DNA sample. I am not even going to say that sketch's DNA was on "that" shirt.
Read VSP's statement it does not say where the link was found.This is for a reason!
I wonder if, as part of contemplating this law suit for two long years, it's why you never really notice, in any of the pleas to help save the next girl, Gil or Dan imploring that young people please not hitch hike. Independent witnesses point to that last known act of poor Morgan's, so you'd think they'd emphasize the danger when warning the kids out there to be careful. (All our mothers warned us about it, and I think mothers must still do that today.) But they never mention it.
I know the blogger stubbornly refuses to believe the accounts, scoffing at the witnesses and tracking dogs, and looking instead for a taser (or perhaps poison blow dart, or a laser based on the moon) to have been used to subdue the poor girl in the parking lot. But I wonder if Gil was advised not to mention it because it would shift the accountability to Morgan and her decisions, which could hurt the chances for a successful suit.
Now, the argument will be whether RMC knew or should have known that Morgan was going to make bad decisions, and needed to be protected. Will be interesting to see what turns up. What did they know, and when did they know it? Perhaps they were remiss.
I'm in no way blaming Morgan and certainly not trying to criticize the Harringtons, but I have also wondered why not warn others of the dangers of hitchhiking, drinking (can lead to impaired judgment,etc.)? I think these are valuable lessons as well. Obviously, if a man or woman is walking down the street hitchhiking while tossing a fifth of liquor back it doesn't give Sketch or someone like him any right to harm him or her. I wish there was a way to caution against risky behavior without sounding as if you are "blaming the victim."
J.me October 25th, 2011 | 11:53am
Well then ask someone to start an article on the picture and title it with "WAR".
Perhaps you would like to go back to the Metallica shirt, or statement of spitting on people in court.
Genealogy, your hobby right? Do you condone what the blogger suggest?
The article states "Indeed, it is war.
Hours after the commemorative event, word was released that Mrs. Harrington, as executor of her daughter's estate, filed suit nearly a week earlier in Roanoke against Regional Marketing Concepts Inc., aka RMC Events, the company that provided Arena security during the Metallica concert. Seeking $3.5 million, the suit alleges that the company's action, in denying Morgan the right to return after leaving the venue, led to the incident."
So focus on the painting and poems and the Metallica t-shirt and Pham and see where that gets you!
Just tell Gil the ride you are taking her on. Who serves Gil better, you with sympathy or some here that want facts and the truth! It is a real live court J.me, not a little club. The accusation are serious and all of the fluff ain't going to help.
JAB, excellent point! Hitch hiking, while ill advised, should NOT be a death sentence. No matter what Morgan did or said that day and night, she did not deserve to die. Nothing takes away from that absolute tragedy and senseless loss.
Having said that, I suspect Morgan's image may receive a little shrapnel from this civil suit being waged. I don't think it can be avoided.
@Truthiness I agree. Honestly, I think that is for the best. I'm not accusing the Harringtons of this (because most of us do believe our children to be perfect...) but some of the well-intentioned followers (that likely never met her) have sanitized her image to the point that it is almost off-putting. What better way to memorialize someone than remembering them as they actually were--warts and all?
I agree, JAB. Even warts are shiny when you love someone, and there's no doubt Morgan was well loved.
Correcting my own post above --- Not just an absolute tragedy and senseless loss -- but a horrific crime.
J'me
I am more interested in Morgan's own painting, and the significance of it. Especially the one titled "Driving" I wonder what Jane thinks of this painting. Morgan shows herself (I think) being chased by a predator with some kind of club. Perhaps Ms. Vance might have some idea who that might be, ie a classmate?
In the painting by Ms Vance, titled "The Hunted", I am interested in the dove and the image
near the throat of the dove. Do not wish to get too graphic here. Also, interested in the spider web and the poetry associated with same. (Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive)
Michael
I agree with some of what you say here, but not the part about the geneaology. Blink is correct about the distinct possibility of there being descendants of slaves from AF who committed this crime. After all, Mike, DNA specialists have been busy checking out familial DNA, and have no doubt come up with many clues. This is my take on the whole thing anyway.
wow ... security firm ... picture ... jumps out ... JAB wins.
JAB October 25th, 2011 | 10:33am
@Mallorie I don't post to please you or anyone else. I couldn't care less if you think I AM Blink in the flesh sitting here typing this.
JAB, I didn't say it you did. Just saying.........
Is it not possible that sketch had some contact and was not the last one with her.
Why would someone that had alluded police for 5 years plant a t-shirt. It also very possible that Morgan arrived near the farm in search of someone and that someone engaged in illegal activity found er to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
So possible yes, it also possible that DNA will not reflect anything that has slave ancestry. What is the make up of the population near the final resting place. Also, many people from other states where in town. One could suggest that every student at UVA would be suspect anyone that ever went to the college or sleep overs before the farmer bought the farm.
There are many quality post on this by others than me. So, why not ask he civil liberties people why not send every single person in the U.S. and anyone ever in the country for DNA, familial DNA test.
Where does it stop, and what does it have to with the law suite or VSP? Do you think out of 12,00 plus that someone else DNA maybe there. Maybe some is degraded enough not point to anyone but can be ruled out as Morgan's or the sketch's then what.
Who cares about someones ancestors other than just curiosity. If familial DNA hits then mybe there are other specimens. That is VSP, FBI and for the courts not someone that releases erroneous information and goes by the shapes of someone's head or skin color as a reason to be hounded.
What do the statistic say abou race and serial killers, really have you looked. Not saying there is one but that seems to be the presented argument. Who has killed more people in the United States, white men or native Americans or people of color. Then look at Europe and the rest of the world.
Sound great until someone drags you out of the car and falsely accuses you.
What happened when virgina's ex governor found out how many people were sentanced to death only to be found that it was 99.9999999999999 percent certain they did not commit the crime.
So if Morgan was sitting in heaven would she want for all of these people to be dragged into her memory?
Just what gives? You want a monster so you will invent one. Let VSP and FBI work on it. The law suite has nothing to do with slaves!
@Mallory this isn't a he said/she said...You obviously want to try and debate with me. You could take some pointers from @michael sutton, @Truthiness, and even @AICbond (who you often show up at the same time with...) If you have a problem with what I say, you need to reference the particular statement. Otherwise, what you say does not make any sense.
I think JAB is a good poster. Mallorie needs to STFU. JAB rooooocks!
(((Gets out the troll spray. Aims it in Mallorie's directions. Sprays away))) Hands @JAB a hastily made cardboard sign that reads in part, "DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!"
@JAB Man, Mallorie thinks you defend BOC and AICBOND thinks you criticize BOC too much. You can't win with these people. Like I said bro, "don't feed the trolls!"
@AICBOND You're spaceship is loading if you think Blink's slave theory is plausible.
@JME Where is the poetry at? I'm not following ya.
Jab, forget trying to hook me with anyone else, ie Mallory. Waste of your time, seriously.
Michael, there is a David rader, sex offender, who looks like sketch. I could start something. What would it mean? Nothing! BUT, if familial DNA evidence were to show some connection, then it is a place to start, and end! ((((plus there are 32 other Rader characters in USA who are also sex offenders. Also, means nothing, nada, unless it does mean something.
Hey Judge Mikey,
BOC got the idea about the slaves from me. (long time ago) Of course I must defend her.
My spaceship is not ready to depart just yet.
The Judge, Your not even worth a response.
@AICBOND I don't think @JAB tried to hook you up with anybody. @JAB You gots some matchmakin' skills we don't know about? He just noticed that you and @Mallorie do tend to show up together. I noticed it as well. If you take that as hooking you that's tu problemo!
@Mallorie Since I am not even worth a response, I thank you for giving me one. (((bows in the presence of greatness)))
JAB, What I have said so far has made perfect sense, you know this. I'm out.......seems that some are getting very nasty here (The Judge) I refuse to be part of the reason for the comments being shut down on this article. However, I feel I have made my point. ~ Love and Light to all ~
Back to the case, I think the Sketch was hiding in the trees possibly at the BB&T. He couldn't have hopped over the bridge from the other side.
Judge, I can kindly fight my own battles. Let's all get back on track. The childish banter is not appropriate for such a serious topic.
AIC, the spider, I think, was just a foil to display the 2-4-1 dots. Who knows, could be more. The web of deceit, the web of life. As for Morgan's own driving painting, methinks it depicts the various and sundry distractions one must watch out for. Things that might dart in front of your car, things to be on the alert for. Always struck me that she did it perhaps to show that she was responsible enough to drive on her own. Bet it worked!
JAB seems to be reasoning. Trying to associate names with posters is for "The Hook". But to clam someone is someone else while it maybe true is something that the accuser should just say and not leave it out there.
I use my name anyone else want to give it a try? They know they are, and if you do just take it to mind, before posting. Do not let it get you away from posting about the article. Next thing you know someone will say Bond is me, I am sure Bond will love that.
The human interest part of the story is fine, but J..me who i know is a serious thinking "seems"to be deflecting the other posters' valid comments. That is my opinion! She has hers.
Cosmo,no one wins, other than the last person with her! Ultimately that is the truth we are looking for and the law suite may or may not led to the truth about that. I think Gil explained well enough in the question and answer article.
I am all for the truth, and as someone else printed there is question about the use of familial DNA, but that is not for us to decide. I do not see a grim reaper here but maybe Gil does. As long as the testing in done for all victims and not selective ones I think it will hold up. But to move someone to the front of the line, well if there is a true immediate threat of other potential victims that is for the state to decide.
Read some of the other's posts, and I am only posting with my name. I do not agree with every thing they say, I doubt they believe in everything I say. But read it without judging who they are unless you can prove it.
I could care less, how corney that is.
AIC, i doubt very much that anyone is checking out the dna in the way you suggest. Maybe in the scary future, but it's not currently feasible. Since we don't have the dna of every living person on file, it wouldn't really be possible to advance the case that way. The kind of familial dna search being conducted is a bit more old fashioned, if you will.
@michael sutton I coudln't care less who AICBond, Mallorie, or even you are honestly. I knew who @why?? was and he confirmed it. I don't want my name out there. I'm a private person. It's not required for the site. It's great that you do that. My hats off to ya. You never know who reads here, and having a past situation with an Internet poster finding my mother and coming to our home, I'll use JAB for now.
With that said, I hope to see most of you again sometime in the future on one of these articles. Hopefully it will be one in which an arrest is announced.
JAB, that was not directed at ou, the Why thing you answered and you had no need to it!
Your good, that was afraid of when you first mentioned it, just I was afraid the trolls would come in. They did, but due to you.
I read everything, so not to worry. Your contributing and you every right to express. And you sure as heck do not need my sign of approval.
Should read not due to you! JAB you have presented a couple of things I was not aware of and thanks.Other poster too! Like I said many valid post, I believe if we all thought the same, looked the same and talked the same life would suffer.
I admire J.me and always will. just we disagree on many things. But not when it comes to solving this crime.
I have nothing but disgust for a couple people on that bloggers site. I am sure you are surprised by that?
Call it like you see it!
Truthiness-----re "AIC, i doubt very much that anyone is checking out the dna in the way you suggest. Maybe in the scary future, but it's not currently feasible. Since we don't have the dna of every living person on file, it wouldn't really be possible to advance the case that way. The kind of familial dna search being conducted is a bit more old fashioned, if you will."
There is DNA on file for everyone under 38 (I believe), as well as foot prints. If you were born in hospital, it is there to be found, and used. Only if you are a hermit, never married or had any kind of offspring will you be totally free of being found out by familial DNA. IF they want to do it, they have already done it. Computers match it in nanos. I think they have found some DNA and are quietly searching and gathering (the old fashioned way)
IF I were the perps, I would be very watchful to be careful not to drop a butt, put a cup in the garbage, dispose of a condom, eat in a restaurant etc. The only way the perps can be safe at this point is to hide in the bush and even then, hunters could find them, and gather stuff.
No worries. I certainty don't care or expect everyone to agree with me 100 percent of the time. I feel like I've contributed all I can contribute, and anything else I could say would just be covering bases we've already covered at this point. Until some new info, etc. surfaces, I think I'll take a break. It's nothing personal to any posters here--I was going to leave this morning and someone got swept back up in the commenting. I'm sure we'll all meet again on another article.
Michael
Seriously, how does stuff like this help solve the case? You say "I have nothing but disgust for a couple people on that bloggers site. I am sure you are surprised by that?"
Bond, with all due respect your just misinformed. I have credentials in HIM. While it is true cord samples are kept till 7 years after a person turns of age I have never seen a request for that medical information unless it was for treatment.
I worked at two premier hospitals and records are destroyed after that period unless other active admissions occurred and the originals were kept on file.
Please refer to Joint Commission and other sources. I do not think you meant to get the facts wrong, just you my want to ask someone you trust. I was the gate keeper and I was in charge of request for information and I am certified. No secret government agency comes in at night on black helicopters and takes the specimen.
I know you will not believe me but please do a little research on your own. You then come to your own conclusion and trust me I have purge those files at direction of the authorities and they are absolutely destroyed beyond even the possibility of future technology. It is directed. Health care records are a whole different ball of wax.
No one is running 3,000 dollar test on every baby and storing it into a data base. You would hear about it!
Michael
Without your knowledge OR permission, secret government agencies come anywhere, anytime, and do whatever they damn please. I know this to be true.
Bond: as soon as people move past the accusing of hundreds and focus on the real facts and listen or read about the discovery in this suite as released by "credible" sources that tip we all have been praying for will go to VSP and they will be able to separate it from all of that garbage.
We: you, I, J.me and others have proofed we are never going to give up. If we all focus and let the people who know information realize then, maybe someone will come forward.
The other thing is as long as others give confidence to the last one with Morgan that the focus is somewhere else then they are laughing at getting their jollies of re-living the last hours of Morgan.
We can disagree on many things, but I think I know you are dedicated. So, I only suggested you look into the HIM, it was not an insult to you. If you took it that way, sorry.
I do no think the government has the DNA and name of the man in the sketch. Maybe you do, and you have that right to your opinion. I disagree.
There is the possibility that the sketch person is dead. Possible, maybe lifestyle maybe some one packing, shot the man and washed their hands.
Who knows, but digging up bodies or suggesting that is morally wrong unless overwhelming proof exist.
All possibilities, but as another poster so well said we do not know how that man's brain clicks, we do not know he was the last one with Morgan. I read and read and I call and I talk to the agencies. Anyone can with proper protocol.
I do not believe there is a cover up by high levels of government. Other may believe it, I do not.
At the level of what Gil's suite suggest it is possible that an inquiry be made to as some one destroying evidence that they thought would bring bad PR to their contract, that has yet to be proved.
Rader is too candid and it is not Rader alone. If Rader thought that some agency was in illegal action he would blow the lid off of it. He has a record of taking care of business with no favoritism, I did my research!
He can do it without fear! He earned the right to say what he believes.
Dino is a fine man, I saw people make fun of him and write that he was a Yankee with a funny name. I read on that bloggers site about her suggesting he was not up and up.
That is part of my point, does Gil, J.me, cat or I want the one who has information about who was last with Morgan not to call Dino or Joe? Really, what does the blog do, as J.me and I suggested plea bargain or ask for protection but that requires belief in VSP. I believe in them! So yes it is my opinion and I believe the large majority, but the sensationalism on that blog adds to the frustration.
Then the mob mentality, ask would you come forward?
I'm surprised the Hook let S Jones come back so obviously after scrubbing almost all of his or her comments from the older articles. The "michael sutton" posts show that the people who said all along that he or she could write coherently when so desired were right. Interesting...
So for all to read; somethings interesting!
I notice the word another "homicide". She does not use the word "murder"
Read her words about the DNA taken from Morgan's body for familial testing.
Another few key words?
This comes from C-ville.com not saying it is correct, but it is quoted and in print.
'Gil Harrington says police also have taken a familial DNA sample from Morgan’s body, and will evaluate new samples as they are received from other crimes. “The DNA information that I will hate to hear is that we find our perpetrator through a DNA hit from another homicide,” said Harrington. “We are working really hard to make that not be so.”'
God Bless her, it must be so hard to add the responsibility of being in-charge of the estate, being a Mother, advocate, her career and volunteer work.
Perhaps the sticking to my sources and being proved to be 100 percent correct on several subjects and to use my real name were factors.
Not for I to say, but I have always suggested that Gil was the true and only true person to give slack to. She is remarkable, she is human, she is hurt and going through the changes of seasons once again.
As she gains her abilities, her focus is on the target. It was suggested a long time ago that she, SHE take action. It had to be on her terms, and for that we are grateful! A long way to go yet.
She kept her sanity with writing, being active and dealing with daily things. We that have been and are still living with not knowing the truth have tremendous faith in her.
Ever hear the statement I see things differently now? OOOpps that is my father's quote, unless you have been down the road it does not mean anything to you. We had and have people with cold cases and their is no exact time schedule, each individual reacts different and no one can imply that they influenced the letting in.
But many many and more see her as inspiration!
Thanks Jenn, love it!
hook reader imported a post that said "Cole Field House and Lane Stadium (VA Tech facilities)"... that's wrong. Cole Field House is the Terps practice facility ... Tech plays at the Casselll.
helper October 26th, 2011 | 1:30am
Thanks so informational! So are you suggesting Hook Reader should not be read. hook reader made valid commentary to the article in my opinion.
But read what you singled out, it was quoted from another source. So, you are proving the point that all reports are not to be taken at face value.
But hook reader put the "by Daybreak on Oct 21, 2011 at 08:48 Am" marks and even qualified it.
But I hear you. I think the point by hook reader stands that it was not her first time at a big event. And it maybe a factor in the civil trial in my opinion.
Gill may not want to through Morgan's friends "under a bus" but they will surely be material witnesses in any trial concerning the lock-out and murder. Those "friends" contributed to Morgan's condition either by providing drugs and alcohol or by encouraging her behavior and by not accompanying her when she left the Metallica concert, that she so very much wanted to attend. They allowed her to be isolated and more vulnerable to her bad decisions and predators. They would know what drugs/alcohol were influencing Morgan and how much she had to drink so that her level of impairment - leading to her leaving the arena grounds - can be estimated.
This case probably will be limited to the question of the no re-entry policy .All the drama will be culled to review that simple straight forward provision .Got nothing to with friends,relatives,slaves,sex offenders,choice of booze,choice of recreational drugs,designated drivers,car ownership,dating habits,choice of clothing ,etc.etc. Were the sponsers of the concert legally entitled to have such a policy , were they entitled to enforce such a policy , and was the policy legally policed by them . Were the rules posted etc . If the answers are yes then the case would be dismissed .A person subject to losing their right of admission via the no re-entry provisions would not be entitled to have entry ,medical intervention,security ,etc as would someone holding a ticket which is still in good standing . They would ,therefore,be in the same situation as approx 7 billion other persons in the world without a valid ticket to the Metallica concert and not the responsability of the defendants in the suit .
all the backwoods mysteries will be revealed ... i can't wait
Forgot to mention ...the "suit" has nothing to do with backwoods anything it is limited to the entrance door of the JPJA on the evening of 17 Oct 2009 and admission requirements thereof ....straight forward uncomplicated case with an obvious conclusion
ha Frank Speaker ... you obviously wish it was ONLY limited to the entrance door of the JPJA.
the effects and consequences of the litigation will not be limited in scope and it will reveal a tremendous amount of information pertaining to UVA / UVA law enforcement / JPJA and all protocols and procedures. this is going to bring so much information to surface for public, local and national view and consumption that many many people will be made very uncomfortable and change in old ways will be inevitable. good luck weathering the storm. RIP Morgan. Justice will be served.
is JPJA located on UVA grounds?
oh snap. scope just expanded.
oh snap just brought in more deep pocket backed defence lawyers to weed out the chaff
Frank, lol! Well said. I may have to rescind my settlement prediction.
Hey T. Better watch were you throw your tooth picks and straws. She may send them to Texas for DNA genetics test! Ask to get your medical records ex-sponged!
The professor may get his airline and engineer buddies from the civil war to perform the test! Under candle light, with Ouija board
This bit of historical data from a source as reliable and often quoted by the blogger:
[I cannot make this up!]
"Following its commercial introduction by businessman Elijah Bond on July 1, 1890,[3] the Ouija board was regarded as a harmless parlor game unrelated to the occult until American Spiritualist Pearl Curran popularized its use as a divining tool during World War I.[4]"
"By 1907 Bond had relocated to West Virginia where he registered a trademark on the word "Nirvana" on June 18, 1907. The mark incorporated a swastika as its logo and the company which produced these boards was named The Swastika Novelty Company"
Maybe we need some genetic test done on a board made of Ginger.
But if you have "Asian" blood no test need to be done according to the "leader"!
How can Gil put up with that blogger?
Michael, grandpa's buddies from the civil war! Loving it! lol
No need to watch where you throw your chopsticks -- that dna cannot be case sensitive. Too funny!
T:
Did you know according to the blogger people in Texas cannot give correct change ?
Wow, the Tennessean Sam Houston would be disappointed. Maybe CA, VA and TN can start a pilot program there. I mean were the volunteer state and there wouldn't be a Texas is it weren't for Tennessee.
Guess they need to do a genetics test on a specified group of their population. That blogger not only offends whole races but an entire state, his claimed state? Where is his birth certificate?
Wow, please Gil tell us that blogger is not speaking for your family.
I am not going to print it, but you do remember somethings in the past that point out the bad taste she has used in the last few days about Virgina.
I would like to apologize to:
Susan, Patricia, and Leslie. I am sure it hurt their reputation to be associated with that blogger.
October 23rd, 2011 | 11:36am
It was in response to another post that mentioned a hippie in a van.
By the way, I have black blood relatives, Cherokee, Chickasaw, Western European so I must be something, but wait I have that Asian blood too!
So, it is not humor, the blogger is so sad that sometimes we must deal with stupidity through humor. And Gil does not need it, the stupidity.
ps Frank, I love it!
Of course, a few of Dan's comments after the sketch was released seemed tinged with racism, or could be read that way. Even more reason to distance themselves from those who are more openly racist and/or tightly affiliated with right wing racist sites.
I am tired of hearing about racist this and racist that. If the murderer of Morgan is a black person, then he is a black person. Why pretend anything else! In Canada, we do not worry about being called racist. Call us whatever you like, but catch the murderers of innocent women of any colour. To get off on a tangent about race is just another diversion, and intended as such. I think I will ask CSIS to look into this case. I will see them soon at a party.
By all means, send the Mounties! Maybe they can find the bad guy.
Do not know any Mounties anymore, that I can think of. The original CSIS were Mounties, though. They would definetely catch the bad guys.
Does CSIS have any better record at solving random murders than those in the U.S.?
Most murders involve people who know each other; those are easier to solve. There are motives. Murders where the victim and perp don't know each other are much harder. Where do you begin? There's just not much to go on.
First, unless you know who the murderers are, then you do not know if they know each other or not.
You begin with seeking out the original security tapes from the night Morgan was killed.
If they have been hidden/destroyed/tampered with, taped over, you determine who did the
deed. There would be a good beginning. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! Every young girls life far outweighs some goons possible loss of reputation. As the Harrington's said "This is WAR"
Yes, CSIS has far better record at solving murders. In this case it would appear that no one even tried. If someone tried, then please accept my appology. BUT, it has been two years, with the killers walking free, enjoying their life, so it would seem, possibly committing more crimes, while Morgan has had her young life stolen for no reason, other than some imagined hateful vengeful vendetta. Bring on the clowns!
Not the clowns again! Please no clowns! T, good luck!
OK, no clowns!
Ok, let's say the tapes exist, and they show exactly what the arena has maintained -- she was there, she left after being warned she couldn't get back in, she left and was denied re-entry per policy, wandered the lot, left the premises. Then we're back at the independent witnesses and the tracking dogs that place her on the bridge hitch hiking (ok, the dog didn't say that, but the witnesses did). Then there's her dead body and dna with a forensic connection to an older case in a different part of Virginia. I think even CSIS would be stumped.
IF what you say is correct, tapes show Morgan's arrival with /without her friends, show her leaving, even record the warning about no re-entry per policy. You then say she wandered the lot, left the premises. You do not say there are tapes to show same. If so, the same tapes would show her interactions with all the various players. If no tapes have been seen,
then the witness accounts come into play. DNA should be obtained from ALL witnesses, with/without consent, and especially from those who witnessed Morgan on the bridge.
DNA should be obtained from Fairfax victim, and her "friends", family members, even those who left the country. Fairfax victim should be given poly/if not already done.
All areas near the last sightings of Morgan should be fully investigated for blood stains/other. ALL people at the first search should be asked for DNA, and if refused, take it anyway, as soon as possible. People at the first search who were aware of the "finding of the leggings" should be investigated, and given poly. All those who took a great interest in the case to "help" should be investigated, and /DNA taken and polygraphed. (I am sure this has all been done), but you did say nothing to go on.
The dog who died in the fire/or supposedly died, by name of Blanca should be tested.
There is tons to go on. All buildings on AF should be tested by any and all means, and the grounds within 10 mile radius searched for the missing camera and necklace. This has probably all been done. BUT who did it? ALL security and LE should be tested for DNA.
Only scratching the surface here, but if CSIS were involved, they would not be stumped.
They would find out who is responsible and let the authorities take it from there.
Ok, that's a pretty exhaustive list. I guess there ARE things that could be done, given the resources. What's the reason for wanting to give the Fairfax victim a poly? I didn't follow that one.
Makes sense to me to make sure the Fairfax victim remembers everything as correctly as possible, since she is the only source for the >sketch. The DNA, as presented on the shirt has been determined to be from a :black: person as far as I am aware. What if the DNA was placed on the shirt by the perp in order to blame someone not connected to the crime,
and thus lead everyone in the wrong direction? Could be the real perp was from the same country of origin as the Fairfax victim, and he has now fled the country, and is threatening the victim's family if his name were to be revealed. Not saying this happened, just giving reason for the poly. Rule everything out and go from there. Of course, this has probably already been done.
CSIS hasn't solved one single murder since it's creation in 1984 . Reason being is that it is illegal for CSIS to conduct criminal investigations .
ILLEGAL???? Well then, I guess you are right. They could not conduct a criminal investigation. You are amusing, anyway.
aicbond, i don't think polys work that way, they attempt to detect active deceit -- because it's usually uncomfortable to lie, your blood pressure changes, etc. if you simply recollect something wrong,it's not a lie.
here's a snippet on polys that shows another reason it wouldn't work for the victim--- she would likely be stressed having to relive details of the assault, wouldn't she? from: http://www.howstuffworks.com/lie-detector.htm
Polygraph examinations are designed to look for significant involuntary responses going on in a person's body when that person is subjected to stress, such as the stress associated with deception. The exams are not able to specifically detect if a person is lying, according to polygrapher Dr. Bob Lee, former executive director of operations at Axciton Systems, a manufacturer of polygraph instruments. But there are certain physiological responses that most of us undergo when attempting to deceive another person. By asking questions about a particular issue under investigation and examining a subject's physiological reactions to those questions, a polygraph examiner can determine if deceptive behavior is being demonstrated.
@ AICBond . CSIS has the mandate of security and intelligence in Canada . As a Canadian you should be aware of that . They are a spy agency not a law enforcement agency . Law enforcement and criminal investigations is not part of their mandate . Being a government agency it is illegal for them to encroach into other governmental jurisdictions .It is highly illegal for them to conduct criminal investigations .That is the reason CSIS was created to prevent spys from doing criminal investigations within Canada on Canadian citizens.They hived the spy functions from the RCMP on recommendation of Judge MacDonald's Comission after some serious invasion of certain citizens rights. Spys were using their LE powers to ruin peoples lives .
@ AICBond ....Regarding your statement "CSIS has a far better record at solving murders" ....You are the amusing one .
FS
Question for you. Is it LEGAL to abduct and murder an innocent young girl, and throw her body in a cow pasture on AF? NO? Well, they did it anyway! Spy agencies, as you call them, could ruin the perps life when they catch him! Damn shame, I'd say!
FS
OK, let me amuse you some more. "Spies" do not care if they are being completely legal.
LEGAL is for lawyers and other schmucks who need them in order to get away with murder.
and FS, the original "spies" who made up CSIS were RCMP, who were told what their next job was to be. (to form CSIS), or so I am told anyway, by one original member.
Truth
I prefer to think in a more positive way, to try to solve, discover, everthing there might be
to discover. If you go around thinking everything will not work, you get nowhere.
If you ask for nothing, you get nothing. Ask for everything, and you might get some things.
Keep chipping away, and you finally get to the perp.
In either case, jurisdiction would be an issue for CSIS or RCMP to get involved. Though perhaps they could go after the reward. They wouldn't have authority to subpoena dna, but they could pick it up wherever it was left behind if they had suspects they wanted to try to exclude.
Truth
They discover whatever is out there to be discovered and give info to someone they trust.
LE takes it from there. That is the way they work.
Truth
This is hilarious! How could "spies" "go after" a reward? How could they claim it?
You don't need to be a citizen to claim the reward, do you? Just need to provide information leading to the arrest of the person or persons responsible. I know Canada has funny laws about sweepstakes having to have a skill component, but I'm not aware of anything that would keep them from collecting the reward for a tip. Not sure how many loonies $150k is these days, but it would pay for their trip down.
@AIC -- They were separated on birth of CSIS by the Soliciter General who in turn issued the mandate to both agencies at that point on authority of the Federal Legislation.It had nothing to do with one agency telling the other what to do .Your general disregard of the reputations of the innocent is revealing .Reminds one of Boink who brags of having no scruples .Your suggestion that the Canadian spy agency could get involved in a murder case in the USA is loonie .
Leading to the arrest and conviction.... So tell your boys to come down on vacation, or invite the retirees who founded CSIS, and let them play at it and collect the dough.
Frank, any reason they couldn't -- as private citizens -- come on a holiday and sleuth around? Again, they couldn't detain folks, subpoena, polygraph, or do other law enforcement activities, but they could chat up the police in an LE to LE way and offer their insights.
According to VSP, though, we already have loads of agencies that continue to be involved in this case. From VSP's fb page on Oct 17 of this year:
Virginia State Police continue to work with the University of Virginia Police, Charlottesville Police, Albemarle County Police, City of Fairfax Police and the FBI on this investigation.
Anyone with information is encouraged to call the Jefferson Area Crime Stoppers at 434-977-4000; or the Virginia State Police at 434-352-3467 or by email at
@Mikey
Well, they do not need the dough, FYI. Keep looking things up on the internet, and you will find out what it is all about, in theory. Have a busy afternoon.
@Truth
All the loads of agencies "involved" in the case, do not seem to be getting anywhere, do they? Two years is a long time to allow murderers free reign over other unsuspecting young people.
T--- Members of those agencies are not private citizens until they leave . They can not go rogue so to speak while on holiday .If one were on vacation in an area and there happens to be a crime at the vacation location that the member may have helpful expertise that could be of assistance to the locals.The member can't act on his/her own accord . They have to get clearance with their specific superiors .If the member is allowed to engage in the investigation then he becomes an official part of it .I am speaking of the RCMP which is more or less comparable to the FBI in that they handle criminal cases. CSIS is involved in intelligence and security ,more comparable to the CIA .Bottom line here is this AIC character is just mumbling jumbled nonsense .He claims CSIS has a far better record at solving murders ,however,truth is they have no record at solving murders .They don't investigate murders in Canada so they would be of less assistance in that role in the USA .
I'm with you, Bond. By all means -- send the Canucks! $150k is nothing to sneeze at.
@T
Thankyou for the invite. BTW, other countries do not necessarily need permission from Hook bloggers to carry on their activities, but it is nice to feel welcomed. Again, thanks.
Other countries also do not necessarily need access to USA database for DNA. They use the international databases. Interpol has lots of profiles already on hand to be checked when needed.
In 2002, Interpol introduced its I-24/7 system “to connect Interpol membership countries with immediate access to vital information”. The system gives police officers the ability to search different databases by using a single gateway and thus expands access beyond the National Central Bureaus[7]. This range of databases includes the DNA profile database and fingerprint database.
In November 2005, Britain became the second country to adopt the charter governing automated access to Interpol’s database of DNA profiles and began sharing data with Interpol through the automated DNA gateway. It seems that it is not mandatory to adopt the charter, which dictates privacy and security terms and conditions, in order to access and use this automated gateway as at least 131 member countries “have been connected as part of a co-ordinated roll out policy”. Austria was the first country to adopt the charter and has submitted 40,000 profiles to the Interpol database. ((((so you see, Mikey, this is old stuff)))
If I were the perps, I would not be comfortable trapesing around any country in the world.
You never know who might be watching you. If I were the perps friends/lovers/family, I would turn him in, and avoid getting arrested myself.
I find it amazing that the most VILE criminals who break the LAW daily, expect all others to abide by the letter of the law. Well, it does not always work that way. Good thing there are some honest/moral/sincere people going after the worst criminals who rape and murder our innocent children. Good thing, they feel justified in ignoring the LAW which is set up by criminals to aid criminals, and not to protect the innocent.
Breaking the law by LE doesn't work out very well if it comes to light during trial . That is often a sure way to let the perp go free .Respect for humane laws are the foundation of civilization . You are advocating anarchy .The end justifies the means approach that you preach always leads to a bitter end . AIC you sound like Boink ,The Mad Dog of The Internet who also brags of having no ethics .
FS
Yes, let anarchy reign!
Now, with regards to your unhealthy fixation upon the author of BOC. Not sure why you
continue to bark at her heels like a mad frenzied dog in heat, but you do. Unfortunately for you, she never gives you a second thought. You yelp and yelp and she does not hear you.
How does that help discover the murderers of Morgan? You are better than this.
AIC .....Why would an anarchist like you care what anyone does ?
Mikey, you are correct, I do not care, just mildly curious.
AIC -- So you are an admitted anarchist who advocates that an organization such as CSIS should run amuck beyond it's legal mandate . You have thrown in cart blanche law breaking by government law enforcement agencies for good measure .You are very Boinked up.
FS
Yes, yes, and yes.
You are such a child. I want all and any methods employed to catch murdering criminals
yes, I do.
AIC ---All and any methods covers a lot of lawful but also massive criminal activity in the process . Giving you the benefit of the doubt one is tempted to ask the obvious .What barbaric criminal activities do you have in mind ,and are there any limits ? You certainly don't advocate a civilized society . What is your ideal state model ? Something like Zimbawbe ? Somalia? Pre liberated Lybia ? Papa Doc's Haiti ?Pre 1990 commie ?
Bond: What gives?
Who is Micky that you refer to. Print it here so we can follow. Is it me, Frank, T. or is just a name that you use as a slur.
When I read "clowns" I decided I was done on this subject not the whole article.
I can assure you I have not been on any internet connected device till about 2 hours ago. So distract from your own so called arguments all you want.
Call your friend the blogger or check the screen shots of her sitemeter. Frank sure ain't me, that goes back for 2 years. T. and I do not agree on 50 percent of this stuff. But, allow for some give and take.
You do want to help Gil or do you just want to make sure that you are her only savior.
Harp on me all you want I am headed to a party so fantasize all you want about "Mickey".
FS
Is society civilized when innocent children and young girls cannot walk outside in the dark alone, or even in the mall in the daytime without being at risk? Laws protect the criminals by again and again allowing them to go free aftrer being caught. Child mollesters are let out of prison to kill/maim hurt children again and again and again. Now I ask you, and leave it with you. Is this the society you want?
It is not the society I want. /women of the workd unite! Stop this insanity. Stop allowing criminals free reign through legal loopholes. Time for change. Past time for
a new beginning. Make all the fun you want about a TGF, but I will tell you this much. I would rather leave my children alone with him than any of you goonballs.
TGF = Tyrant Gone Fanatical
"Virginia State Police continue to work with the University of Virginia Police, Charlottesville Police, Albemarle County Police, City of Fairfax Police and the FBI on this investigation."
This only shows how grossly incompetent and negligent the state's agencies are when 2 years later there are absolutely no results.
RIP Morgan
FBI's on that list...