Chasing Any: Three women rebuff Huguely meet-ups; five laxers smash planned alibi
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Brea Thomas met with the police on May 4, 2010, the day after Love's death.hawes spencer -
Five lacrosse players including Chris Clements, Will Bolton, and Ken Clausen demolished Huguely's alleged alibi for his time away from his apartment.hawes spencer
Three women in the murder trial of former University of Virginia lacrosse player George W. Huguely revealed how a lonely and/or libidinous Huguely reached out to them in the hours leading up to the death of 22-year-old fellow student-athlete Yeardley Love. The testimony came the morning of Wednesday, February 15, the final day of the prosecution.
"There was banging on my door," Caitlin Taylor told the jury of a near-midnight encounter on May 1, a little over a day before Love's death. "My cousin opened the door and said I was sleeping."
Taylor, who lived below Huguely in an apartment building on 14th Street, testified that her prior contact with Huguely was confined to discussions about noise emanating from his floor and how they exchanged phone numbers only to simplify the process of telling him to quiet down.
Taylor– a straight-haired brunette– noted that the sudden interest from her upstairs neighbor continued to the following morning when the lacrosse players were about to head off to a father-son golf tournament at Wintergreen Resort.
"He was more talkative than usual," testified Taylor. "He offered to carry a laundry basket to my car."
Another witness, Brea Thomas, explained how she contacted police after learning of Love's death to reveal her curious communique from Huguely. It came via text on her Blackberry at 10:03pm the same night as the surprise visit to Taylor's apartment. Huguely, who she knew "not extremely well," wanted to hang out.
"I'm at the library studying," Thomas says she told him.
The final of the Huguely reach-outs was a thin strawberry-blonde woman named Megan Moses who had met Huguely just once before at a concert and then afterwards at a bar, on the Charlottesville Downtown Mall.
She got a phone call that night from Huguely around midnight.
"He was seeing what I was doing," testified Moses. "I sent him a text saying I was out of town."
The prosecution appears to have called the witnesses to show how a love-lorn Huguely might, a day later, have taken out his romantic frustrations on his on-again, off-again girlfriend Love.
Other key Wednesday-morning witnesses were five lacrosse players who– besides telling tales of Huguely's drunken actions– demolished what appeared to be Huguely's death-night alibi: that he'd been hanging out downstairs.
Kevin Carroll, Kenneth Clausen, Chris Clements, Will Bolton, and William "Mikey" Thompson each contributed tales of sloppy behavior by Huguely on Sunday, May 2. There was talk of Huguely telling inappropriate stories in front of kids and grandparents at the golf tourney and then later that night prematurely leaving the C&O restaurant due to spilled wine– and then urinating against a downtown building.
More importantly, taken together, their accounts of Huguely's movements indicated that the defendant suddenly appeared in his own apartment around midnight. As most of the lacrosse players testified, Huguely later offered a story about drinking downstairs with Clements and Bolton. Trouble was that Clements had locked his bedroom door to soberly focus on a term paper, and Bolton was at his own apartment.
"I'm in my apartment," Bolton says he explained when Carroll– then believing Huguely's tale– placed an 11:54pm phone call asking him to come "upstairs."
Bolton walked over from nearby Wertland Street in time to see Huguely emptying his bladder with the bathroom door open, and then making eye contact.
"He went into his bedroom," testified Bolton, "and closed the door."
There was also some additional intriguing testimony from Ken Clausen. A picture of athleticism and long locks as well as a former roommate to Huguely, Clausen testified about riding back from the golf tournament. Huguely and Huguely's father remained inside the car to discuss a complicated proposed graduation present.
"He came in and started talking about the gift– that it was some kind of scam," Clausen testified. "He just seemed a little frustrated that his dad was trying to get him to sign these papers."
But it was Clausen's testimony of Huguely's near-midnight return to the apartment that gave Clausen greater concern when they figured what he said wasn't adding up.
"I noticed there was a change in his demeanor," said Clausen. "I said, 'George, what is wrong with you? I asked him two more times, 'George, what is wrong with you?' And there was no response."
Defense attorney Fran Lawrence got Clausen to concede that he noticed no injuries on Huguely and attempted to get Clausen, a pallbearer at Love's funeral, to recant the demeanor comment.
"There was no doubt in my mind," said Clausen, "that there was a change in his demeanor."
The day's first witness was Jamie Sacco, owner of Snooky's pawn shop on the Downtown Mall, who testified that a computer like Love's– which Huguely has admitted to swiping and discarding– would be worth $250-$350. The testimony seemed designed to assist the prosecution's charge of grand larceny, which state law currently limits to thefts over $200.
–headline lengthened on Tuesday, February 21 to mention the lacrosse players.
164 comments
"Taylor– a straight-haired brunette"
"a thin strawberry-blonde woman named Megan Moses"
Come on, Hook. Are their hair-color and body type at all relevant to this story? Next thing you're going to tell me is that these witnesses in a first-degree murder trial enjoy sunsets and long walks on the beach.
Do better.
I did not think that was so bad...writers often add a little color to paint a picture. If HS had continued with dress style, etc., then I would have thought a bit silly.
Now, I think it can be said that GH--who should go away for a long time--was failed by layers of people: his parents, his friends, his teammates, his coach, and UVa. A school cannot provide orientation to 17-18 year old kids on ETOH abuse, how to conduct themselves, how to treat other peeps and the code of honor, then act like it did not do everything possible for this sick student.
I AA parlance, it's called "enabling." And, while maybe George IV is as sick as his son, there were lots of other people (Marta?) who should have sent him on an expedited trip to rock-bottom. Now it has come to this.
It is a pathetic testimony to a culture that has lost its testicular fortitude and its will to judge what is truly right and wrong...and to act on that judgment when "wrong" is so clear.
R.I.P.: Dick McAuliffe
I agree... he was let down and enabled.
What was "some sort of scam"? HS, this is not clear. "Sign (what) papers"? Please elaborate on this.
Really?- everything is relevant, just ask the defense..........
I bet they do........
@Janis: Alas, I cannot elaborate because I don't know anything more than what the man with the Fabio hair said.--hawes spencer
So George was horny?
Not much from the prosecuition today other than the price of a laptop. One would expect more than chaff on finishing the state's presentation of "The Trial of The Century".
Really?'s point is well taken. There are no hair/body type descriptions of the males in Mr. Spencer's story. Apologies to Mr. Sacco, but the editor could easily have added ["a little color"] to this sentence, for example: "The day's first witness was Jamie Sacco, [the short but wiry, carrot-topped] owner of Snooky's pawn shop on the Downtown Mall...". There's no description because what Mr. Sacco looks like has no bearing on what he said on the witness stand, and it should be the same for the women who testified. Either supply "color" for both sexes or leave it out completely. Better journalism all around.
It is difficult to comprehend where all the outpouring of empathy for GWH V is coming from . He was failed by everyone ? Garbage ! He failed everyone is more like it and topped his abusive behaviour off by offing a little girl . Those that are being incorrectly accused of letting him down are still proping him up . In every barrel of apples there is usually a rotten one .
Ridgerunner: how many ties and blazers were from Brooks Brothers do you figure?
Seems like Mr. Spencer is rushing updates to us and if he leaves a thing out here and there, give a break. I am just delighted to get at least TWO updates before end of day, in one day, period!
THANK YOU HOOK!!
Keep it comin' even if fragmented at times. If we hear about some hair designs, and not about others, then so be it... just glad to get the play-by-play news.
And for some hair designs, the photos sure do the talking!
No mention of appearance? I'm nearly having a bromance with Clausen with such phrases as this: "A picture of athleticism and long locks as well as a former roommate to Huguely..." -- hawes spencer
Hawes: I can see it now, a vulgar Vanity Fair article highlighting "Lacrosse Fashion"
So GH was making booty calls and couldn't get anyone home but a drunken YL?
Come on folks, let's not forget that given the lack of TV coverage of this trial, The Hook and HS need to provide a little color commentary. The prosecution is doing a bang up job of painting a very complete picture of this crime and leaving little room for the over paid defense to wiggle.
A lot of organizations and a lot of people created this mess and all of them should be ashamed of the roles they played. Landon School, George's parents, UVA, the UVA lacrosse program, the culture of permissiveness at UVA and a failure on the part of society to deal with the problem of alcohol abuse are all guilty of this crime.
Time for some change at UVA. The Rector and the Board of Visitors need to investigate this entire matter and not sweep it under the good old boy rug.
@Frank Speaker: If you took my post as empathetic, sorry. It was certainly true, though. He was failed by everyone, probably beginning at around 9 yrs. old when his parents divorced and had a bitter custody battle. Now, if you note, I said he should go away and should have been pushed to rock-bottom long ago. I am no bleeding heart but, in the words of the great Albert Groh, "it is what it is."
Few, if any people, had the stones to confront wrong, so he was enabled in that respect. He should have had lots of "interventions." Whether we think he just needed a good butt-whooping, a 28-day detox or heavy-duty counseling, he needed something...and did not get it.
That is the parents' job first. And, Frank, if you go through the Huguely harvest of apples, I bet you will find lots of rotten ones. Again, I have no sympathy for this creep. In many ways, he "did have it all and blew it." But in other ways, he never had a chance. He was headed for bad things in one way or another.
R.I.P.: Blossom Rock
@Hawes...
Fabio hair? I thought that this guy was the lead singer of Crash Test Dummies or Rob Schilling's barber.
R.I.P.: R. Budd Dwyer
@ridgerunner There are no hair/body type descriptions of the males in Mr. Spencer's story. <<
I thought "athletic" and "flowing locks" were descriptive. Maybe you missed it, but I almost had a seizure. I appreciate Hawes` efforts in giving us a bit of the atmosphere of the trial.
I was just listening to the Lloyd Snook interview w/ Coy Barefoot from yesterday I think.
They went over a variety of scenarios concerning how the jury's ruling might go down. They move through 1st degree, 2nd degree, Involuntary and Voluntary Man.
The one thing I didn't hear them discuss was how are the invol/vol man rulings altered by GHVs busting through the door. As Snook and Barefoot discussed, if people are in a fight, no one intends to kill the other, one gets tripped accidentally say, and their head is hit, they die, no one "intended" for someone to die. But when you tell someone to leave, your door is locked, it's kicked in, and you're placed in danger due to their instigating violence, how does that affect the notion that two people are in a benign situation that otherwise goes bad. here's where I hope at the very, very least the B & E felony murder charge is rendered. Whatever the nature of Love and GHVs past, her door was locked, and he broke in violently to get to her. She didn't enter into a mutual situation, she was, if anything, fighting for her life from the moment he entered her room.
UVAGU Professor: Some good points, but what does Landon School have to do with it anymore than St. Paul's (my alma mater), Gilman, Boys Latin, St. Alban's, etc.? I know in Baltimore, lacrosse is like a religion, for one to play baseball in the private schools he is rendered as a second class citizen. The problem isn't the schools it is lax culture which involves heavy drinking, some drug consumption, and lots of infidelity. These reforms that you suggest should be instituted across the board not just at UVA.
Is it me or does Clausen look like Ian Astbury of The Cult?
Doesn't it seem quite obvious that George knew he needed an alibi for the night so he tried to hook up with anyone he knew--or could find?? Seems like he knew exactly what he was doing.
Help me out here folks. I have a terrible memory but I recall that a young woman was killed in CVille a few years ago when two armed robbers entered her home. She was young, like maybe in her twenties, and worked as an arts administrator or something like that. Does any of this ring a bell? I googled every permutation I could but Google's algorithms only want to give up YL news.
The reason I ask is that I am curious abouot the felony murder charge or 1st degree in that case, if any. Does anyone know.
Finally, is there any kind of lesser form of robbery or felony just because GHV knew his target? He went in and stole the computer. To get M2 at the least, he had to have wanted to get that I guess. Not that a kicked in door isn't B & E on its own, but I'm just wondering anyone's thoughts here on what it takes to at least give him M2? I think he wanted to kill her, and was lucid enough to lie when he got home, but I have no clue if the jury also sees intent here.
Kate george, her name was Jayne McGowan. Also a young woman who was in her own home at the time. I believe both men convicted of Jayne's murder are serving life sentences now, and that the charge was capital murder. They broke into her home and shot her over a botched laptop robbery. I've also wondered about the parallel between the two murders. Hers was not domestic violence, though.
The connection with showing a felony theft, was there was a B&E, felony theft and a murder. Good Catch KATE. That could get a 1st degree murder conviciton without the intent for premeditation.
And what real difference do we have because the alleged perp knew the victim? I mean, he didn't live with her —is that still "domestic violence?" I ask in all earnestness because I don't know. But if the breaking in of the door is a felony B & E (with the computer theft), it seems like it makes a difference in the possible ruling.
18.2-32. First and second degree murder defined; punishment.
Murder, other than capital murder, by poison, lying in wait, imprisonment,starving, or by any willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or in thecommission of, or attempt to commit, arson, rape, forcible sodomy, inanimateor animate object sexual penetration, robbery, burglary or abduction, exceptas provided in 18.2-31, is murder of the first degree, punishable as aClass 2 felony.
All murder other than capital murder and murder in the first degree is murderof the second degree and is punishable by confinement in a state correctionalfacility for not less than five nor more than forty years.
(Code 1950, 18.1-21; 1960, c. 358; 1962, c. 42; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1976, c.503; 1977, cc. 478, 492; 1981, c. 397; 1993, cc. 463, 490; 1998, c. 281.)
_________
The defense is arguing GH5 went there to "talk" and taking the laptop was an after thought. I had an after thought too, if she was conscious how could he take her laptop and why would he if she was? It was in her room with her, he took it when she wasn't conscious or dead. If someone was in my room, fought with me and I was conscious, I would know they took my laptop.
This is Manslaughter which is what the Defense hopes for:
18.2-36.1. Certain conduct punishable as involuntary manslaughter.
A. Any person who, as a result of driving under the influence in violation ofclause (ii), (iii), or (iv) of 18.2-266 or any local ordinance substantially similar thereto unintentionally causes the death of another person, shall be guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
B. If, in addition, the conduct of the defendant was so gross, wanton and culpable as to show a reckless disregard for human life, he shall be guiltyof aggravated involuntary manslaughter, a felony punishable by a term of imprisonment of not less than one nor more than 20 years, one year of which shall be a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment.
C. The provisions of this section shall not preclude prosecution under any other homicide statute. This section shall not preclude any other revocationor suspension required by law. The driver's license of any person convicted under this section shall be revoked pursuant to subsection B of 46.2-391.
(1989, cc. 554, 574; 1992, c. 862; 1994, cc. 635, 682; 1999, cc. 945, 987;2000, cc. 956, 982; 2004, c. 461.)
CVille Native, you bring up a great point relative to the holes in GHVs Monday morning statement. If she was alert and standing up, staring at him as he left, how is it that he swipes the computer for "collateral" without her either attempting to get it back, or immediately trying to get in touch with someone to help her? Is she really going to get a beating that ended up killing her, remain standing, and do nothing to get help for herself?
GHV has already told multiple lies in his statement, to friends the night of the encounter, and probably about her state when he left that night. So what in all this mess gives veracity to his claim that he just went there to "talk," which is the angle used to make this fall into the realm of alleged accident, manslaughter?
There's something quite extraordinary of going somewhere to "talk" and the first action being to bust through a locked door.
It remains remarkably plausible that he was enraged to the point of revenge, especially after not getting any action from other chicks in the past day. Perhaps he felt Love had ruined his chances with all the ladies? Based on his behavior it is completely logical to see him as going in pursuit of her death and with the express intent to take the computer to steal and dispose of any incriminating evidence.
A serial liar has no reason to be given the benefit of the doubt on anything.
@UVAGUProfessor: I concur. I spent seven years trying to enlighten people about campus crime. The University operates in a closed system and has the ability to sweep many crimes under the rug. If Yeardley had been raped and lived, there would be no prosecution of a case. Huguely would probably have remained on campus and graduated on time; the Dean would have recommended that Yeardley take a semester off to get herself back together. The Huguely trial has promoted much discussion, but I don't see that any of it is directed towards how the community and the students are working towards eliminating the culture of violence against women that currently exists at UVA.
@UVAGUProfessor & SusanR - It isn't just at UVA, other campus out there too have the same unwritten policies. I hate to say this but perhaps the State Govts etc. should step in and state no funding if you don't implement programs that report, reduce and educate students of violence. Would be nice if from all these victims we were able to make that change.
@ Lisbeth
Nah, I find it more probable (based on what we've learned this far about the nature of their relationship) that he was eager to have a fling in retaliation for YL having enjoyed one herself. Based on what we know he was at the zenith of his jealousy at being out-gunned in the sack, so my guess is that he was eager to get back at YL, prove his prowess and also release some horniness.
I've seen this graduation gift mentioned somewhere else, but it seems like no one has said exactly what it was. I'm curious.
I'm sorry, but educate students of violence....that just sounds so absurd that 18-22 year olds don't know enough about violence. The problem is, why do they not care? And it just gnaws on me that I bet Yeardley's own mother told her to "stick it out a few more weeks" after the first incident. And I am NOT blaming her by any means.
But it has started me on the conversation with my own 16 y-o son, who wants to attend UVA btw, so that he would not turn out to be the "middle class" version of GH. And I'm not even sure what I would say to my 8 y-o daughter, as I can't think for the life of me of what Yeardley did wrong.
First of all, in response to the OP, seems odd that you would choose as a posting name, JeffersonChurchill? Seems like they both had alcohol and women problems. Sounds just like..........................................
The Landon School was recently front and center in The Washington Post for a scandal involving the athletic program. St. Paul's, in front page news in the Baltimore Sun in the recent past, had a scandal involving the lacrosse team, a young lady, a lacrosse player and a sex tape. I seem to remember that the tape was shown to the lacrosse team. I could go on and point out incidents of bad behavior at all the schools mentioned.
I have coached lacrosse and other sports at several nationally recognized independent schools of the same league of the schools mentioned. To the best of my knowledge, no one from any of the schools in my experience has ever been involved in a scandal, made a sex tape or was charged with murder, theft, etc. I have also played lacrosse at the independent school and collegiate level. Bad behavior in my day was drinking or smoking (cigarettes) and not getting caught by the coaches. Perhaps the lacrosse culture has evolved and the behavior coming out in this trial is the norm for athletic teams at both the collegiate and independent school level. My experience tells me that it is not the norm at schools where the leadership of the schools does not allow this kind of behavior to take place. The UVA football team has a very poor record in regard to brushes with the law as well.
As I write this, i am watching CNN and hearing about the death of Whitney Houston. Appears that this sad death is about excessive drinking and taking prescription medications. Great example for all the kids who want to be stars!
All of this nonsense needs to stop somewhere. For me, it needs to stop here. Bad behavior is bad behavior. Real ladies and gentlemen don't act like any of these examples. It all comes down to issues of institutional and team leadership. When leadership takes the approach that boys will be boys, it is time for leadership to change. Both lacrosse coaches need to go. If Ms. Sullivan doesn't have the stuffing to get rid of them, perhaps the Rector and the Board of Visitors does. There is a need for leadership to lead. A continuing failure to do so will result in more of what we are witnessing today.
Hear, Hear Professor ! I firmly agree. The coaches need to go. And Lax is such a money sport for students and colleges, they seem to get away with well... dare I say Murder?
Lax is such a money sport for colleges? You might want to check your facts on that.
Money sport??? Surely you jest!
As of this point in time, there is no school making money off of its lacrosse program. That is absurd. The men's team suits up over 40 players, needing equipment, travel expenses, coaches, etc., etc. The stadium holds 7 - 8,000 at full capacity -- SRO, which might occur one or two times a season, but is mostly students who get in free. General admission tickets are $8.
I know it is fun to still around half the day analyzing and speculating about this case, but a lot of the comments here involve blatantly making up stuff.
The stereotyping by most of you folks is really unbecoming. This tragedy did not occur because of wealth, lacrosse, or UVa. Because of alcohol? Most likely, but that doesn't meant every male college student of legal drinking age will attack his former girl friend when drunk, either. Your blood lust against the defendant is not becoming either. (Especially the prison jokes -- really, you think it appropriate for prisoners to be left open to assaults by prison officials??)
From all accounts the Commonwealth methodically put on its best case. The defense has just started its case. The jury will get the case within the week. Let them do their work -- sure you have been disappointed that they have seen evidence you were not allowed to see -- but they have seen it all, and it is their job, not yours, to decide this case. Then move on -- just think how much free time you will have!
Fun to SIT around . . . .
Can never proofread enough.
Jeff, Thanks for your response. The issue with any school is that it is the job of the school to teach values. The fact that St. Paul's, and I assume we are talking about the one in Maryland, is an Episcopal school is irrelevant. A failure to teach values is a failure to teach values. Religion and philosophy are separate and distinct disciplines. Religion is about "the rules" and philosophy is about ideas. Neither are "crap". Someone much more learned than I once said that, "A society that scorns excellence in plumbing, but tolerates shoddiness in philosophy will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy. Neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water."
I wonder if they will call his UVA Lacrosse coach as a witness...kind of surprised the Prosecution did not call him...did he not see any probs with GH?
common sense says the graduation gift was probably a new car that the father put the down payment on, but GH5 would assume the payments at some point in the future. i believe they argued in her apartment, she wanted to get away from him so she made it to her room and locked the door. He pursued and when she wouldn't let him in, he kicked the door in. After that all hell broke loose. I'm wondering if the cops have looked into the possibilty of the laptop being used as a weapon by GH5? I mean he couldn't be foolish enough to think that throwing the laptop out would get rid of all the evidence in cyberspace. GH5 is the first person to blame, but so many other factors @ UVA and @ home added to the downfall of him and to the death of Love.
UVAGUProfessor - I take issue with your statement that "The UVA football team has a very poor record in regard to brushes with the law as well."
What's your evidence to back this up? Al Groh had a very low tolerance for his players getting in trouble, which is part of the reason some good players left UVA - Ahmad Bradshaw for instance. Mike London has continued that - UVA football prides itself upon recruiting athletes that take education and character seriously.
Of course there will always be a few bad apples in the bunch, but you will find that UVA has much less trouble with their football team than comparable schools who turn a blind eye to athlete's transgressions. (Not naming the other schools, but yall know who I'm talking about).
And I agree with "An Observer" above - George Huguely is to blame for his actions, not his high school, college, friends, coaches, teammates, and not even really his parents. The prosecution seemed to have done a stellar job with their case, and we'll just have to see what happens.
@give it to me straight - it could have been a car, that's for sure. But I was also thinking it could have been some type of trust or investment, especially since GH4 has lots of different business dealings (although not all profitable from what I've read).
For GH5 to refer to it as a scam seems to indicate more than a car to me. But who knows....and not that it really matters.
Why would his father give him a car? Wasn't he was always drun?.
though it could have been a restraining order to stay away from home or the businesses. Wacky family.
Not sure what drun is but, maybe he is one.............make that a drunk.
Vaughn and An Observer - you are correct. Sports like lacrosse do not make money for the college. Soon it will go the way of mens swimming in Division I. The sad fact is that this story is the best thing that ever could have happened to lacrosse as far as generating interest...
Does anyone recall the infamous Eliabeth Haysom and Jans Soering scandal that once rocked the UVA community? In case anyone is interested its still a great read on google. They were both freshman. It is actually more fascinating then GHV. They killed her parents and went on the lam to Indonesia and Europe. I am suprised the Hook has not brought more attention to this story.
Son, the good news is for a graduation present I'm giving you a nice lot out in Ivy. The bad news is the lot is going into foreclosure and here are the papers.
GHIV business dealings were not profitable. The GHIV line of "money" was not. Its a better read to make them super wealthy. There is a non profit (NGO) that GHIV encouraged his son to associate himself with. This perhaps had something to do with the so called "gift". Often times, non-profits are more desirable then trusts to set up because of the ability to draw salaries and write off "expenses".
TherebythegraceofGod - I remember the Soering/Haysom case very well. Soering still maintains his innocence. I've read on this case a lot, and I can't say I'm absolutely convinced of his guilt. It is an interesting case because of all the elements - their time on the lam, the diplomatic immunity, etc.
UVAGU Professor: Yes, I am a graduate of the St. Paul's in Maryland, proud of it too. The sex tape scandal was atrocious and Coach Whiteley forfeited the season as a result of it. And yes, it is the job of a school to teach values, hence the honor code.
McDonogh was also rocked by sex scandal years ago. It happens. Nothing new there, Timonium.
How ironic if Huguely were housed with Soering.
' The UVA football team has a very poor record in regard to brushes with the law as well. '
Really? If you take a look at other Div 1 schools, other schools in the conference (not to mention down the road) you will find that UVa has much less tolerance for off the field behavior.
Please know of what you are talking about before you make a broad, sweeping statement like that.
BTW-What was the sex tape scandal?
TherebythegraceofGod- any athletic program that makes it onto the tube, network, ESPNU, etc, creates an income stream for a university
This is NOT about Lacrosse. But, because they were both laxers it has made the International news. Throw in wealth, beauty and a prestigious school and you have the perfect media storm.
This is about a person who was not going to let anyone else have something he wanted. A bully. A man with anger issues, substance abuse issues and a lack of respect for women.
Lisbeth- per my earlier post on another page- you are correct ma'am..........it is now about who the victim is.
Lisbeth: Exactly.
Yeardly Love was a cute girl. Cute white girl killed by handsome boy. If Yeardly love was not cute and George not handsome then this case would not be national news. So sad but so true. Also, if the library girl George was texting was described as heavy set with frizzy hair it would be a media speculation frenzy.
From above "A lot of organizations and a lot of people created this mess and all of them should be ashamed of the roles they played. Landon School, George's parents, UVA, the UVA lacrosse program, the culture of permissiveness at UVA and a failure on the part of society to deal with the problem of alcohol abuse are all guilty of this crime". and Mr Bowles who killed his wife in the trailer park, the baptist church failed him, his parents failed him, his schools failed him, the culture of permissiveness at the trailer park, the City nanny programs failed him with the problem of alcohol abuse are all guilty of his crime?
Clausen(?) inferred that George started souping up his drinking habits a few months prior to the alledged murder. George was terrified of the real world. The thought of not being associated with college lacrosse terrified him. I remember my own senior year and how depressing it was looking at petty administrators commuting to work and how pathetic they looked when they came to drink in bars in their "professional" clothes. Has anyone read anything about his intentions for grad school or law school? I read that YL was planning on law school. Was George's dad not financing continued education. Every college student remembers feeling special and better then the outside world.
Sam -- don't forget the lack of outrage here and elsewhere over the jury's verdict of second degree murder for stabbing his wife 16 times and a recommended sentence of 15 years . . . .
Unless by statute the victim is in a protected class -- police, elected official, child, victim of a so-called hate crime, etc. -- the identity of the victim should not matter in assessing the appropriate charges, culpability, or the sentence. But the majority here are taken with the loss of a beautiful bright, white smile and sparkling blue eyes.
These comments are in no way meant to understate the loss here. Yeardley Love should not be dead.
The comments about others being accountable for George's actions are stupid. Furthermore, I am sick of everyone referring to him as a kid. He isn't a kid and he is responsible for his own actions. Keep his background out of this. It has nothing to do with it. He was an immature guy who found comfort in a group that he percieved as giving him status.
The sudden "sickness" by the female defense attorney this morning that is delaying the trial seems to be a deliberate mechanism to force the trial to have to continue into next week. I believe it is in the best interest of the defense that the jurors have a long weekend (President's Day is Monday so no court) removed from the evidence and testimony presented by the prosecution.
I hate to be cynical but how do others feel about this?
Well stated, Observer. Well Stated.
@ Don't Send Me to the Real World - I remember reading that George had a job lined up at a real estate firm in DC. Not sure if that is his family real estate/investment firm or not.
But I agree with you - I was terrified of leaving college and starting that new stage of life.
GRACE OF GOD - Where did you read about the Non Profit Organization? Is this something like Grant A Smile? Was this his gift? If so, does it only exist on paper therefore nothing but a tax loopholefor his dad
LaxDad: This trial was likely to spill over into next week no matter what. The defense will likely call in every "expert witness" from sports medicine to neurosurgery to discredit the prosecution.
Kate Burg and Don't Sent Me to the Real World: I couldn't wait to leave college and start my career, unfortunately we have Comrade Obama in the Kremlin...um...I mean White House, so there aren't too many careers to be had now a day.
He did what he did because he could not have Y.
He lied to his closest friends because he knew he killed her.
Otherwise, he would have said " I went to Y's and we had a fight, I am over her".
This has nothing to do with wealth, prestigue or lacrosse. It has to do with an immature bully who was not believed to be this much of a threat by anyone. He was "George being George". EVEN after he attacked her previously and sent her threats.
This is a huge wake up call for alot of people. Like Ted Bundy. Looks mean nothing.
You feel a little twinge, you feel a little threatened, DO SOMETHING to protect yourself.
RIP YL.
LaxDad- most of us would play hurt, but attorneys generally do not................
I am a junior at xxxx in DC. I agree that the thought of going into the workforce is horrifying at best. When I get on the metro for my internship I always feel bad for the people who get off in the suburbs. The worst for me is the older women and men in their 40s and beyond who look so unhappy and fat. I think that if George knew he had to come to work in a real estate firm while everyone else got to stay in school he was probably depressed, especially if he knew Love had law school lined up already. I hate going back home during break and having to hang out with community college friends or people who graduated. It seems kind of beneath me to be honest.
LaxDad -- Dreaded norovirus has been sweeping through C'ville as well as other parts of VA. Maybe that is what caused the defense attorney's absence.
Don't send me -- the initial reports said GH was slated to go work in a family business (with his dad, I think). Don't recall reading any specifics on Ms. Love's post grad plans other than she had a job lined up -- maybe in NYC. (Many of her sorority sisters landed there.) Never heard anything about Law School. Do you remember your source for that?
What I ment by educate about violence etc. for all schools is to give information on how to report it if you are a victim, how to report it if others are victims - not to walk alone out on campus/grounds after sunset, protect yourself, use common sense. There is so much more there.
@UVAGUProfessor, I so agree with you about behaving like ladies and gentleman and I was of another "elite" sport - horse showing but I was the kid who mucked the stalls, took care of my horse and tack and babysat for show money. My family could have handed over all the frills and paid for it but they insisted I work for it. I did, it developed character at a young age. There was sometimes a little wiggle room as things have become modern - example, my grandmother told me "ladies didn't sweat, animals did and ladies got heated". I replied I was sweating in 110 degree heat in a full riding habit.
My point is even then, I saw others who had the attitude of being elite and above all others. (I didn't like them, I tolerated them and kept them at distance.)
As for GH5 fear of graduation and future - I mentioned this the other day to someone but as all have noted here, it doesn't give him reason to cause the death or kill someone.
We all have had relationships where we were done wrong or we may have done wrong, we all have been part of teams or clubs or some sort of rhelm out there, we all have faced a future of the unknown - none of us are on trial for murder!
The blame lies solely on GH5, he didn't have to go over to YL's to "talk", he could have gone on the "beer run" with his room mate. He could have just walked away from the relationship and let it be.
As for education, I read somewhere that GH5's major was Anthropology? I could be wrong. YL's was Political Sciences and she was on her way to NYC. GH5 they said California - though his future was sort of not as planned. YL was also described as a very neat, organized individual - which may also be associated with her ADHD - they need to be that way to function productively, it is a manner which they cope.
Just waiting for more of the asinine arguments to start up on the defense here...hoping the jury sees it that way but wouldn't be suprised if they do not.
I went to a college similar to UVa in New England, people used to road trip to Charlottesville, Philadelphia, WDC, New York, etc. -- all debutantes. However, I was a scholarship student admitted because of excellent grades, test scores, volunteer work as a minority student and was generally appalled by what I saw at a Little Ivy League College. I could not wait until I graduated, looked forward to the day I could go back to the West Coast and graduate school.
Then I read comments like "Captain Crunch Girl" and read about how George was afraid of the real world, well, I'll tell you something folks (like CCG), the real world isn't full of fun, people have real world problems (like bills, keeping a job you hate, taking care of children who might have problems in school, taking care of aging parents, and paying tuition so you can have fun in a nice college). My working class parents were shocked at my graduation by the drinking they witnessed my fellow seniors and their parents, they asked me as we tripped over all the empty alcohol bottles in the dorm if there were any school events where alcohol was not served at an open bar -- I had to tell them no.
George was a thug, but a wealthy, pretty thug. If he was African-American or a working class kid, his trial would already be done with and he would be in state prison.
Hey Observer, I believe I read it in the Baltimore Sun that she was planning on UVA Law. and I am pretty sure it was reported on WBAL a few times. I think I also read that she had an internship planned in NYC.
Grace of God - I also remember reading about an organization with his sister. I have not been able to find it anywhere since I initially read it right after the murder.
Lax Dad - At this important stage, there is no way a judge would allow this unless there is proof of her illness.
Lisbeth - Looks mean everything.
Kate burg - I have spent the last part of the morning reading about Haysom Murders. The fact that I didn't know anything about this interesting UVA case just shows that time will soon make us forget George Huguely.
Please don't review my grammar on previous post. I have a real world job and am trying to multi task. Captain Crunch Girl - As shallow as you sound, good for your honesty, The real world isn't so bad, unless of course, you are George Huguely.
THank you. As long as I am being honest, the reason I am interested in this case is because she is pretty and he is kind of hot. It is very true that if they were black or ugly or not in school I would not be so interested. This case also hits home because when I drink I do stupid things and when my friends that are guys drink they also do stupid things and get really jelous. I also think that if she was fat I would not feel as bad for her. I think if he was ugly I would want him executed.
@Afraid of RL?: I do not see how being a debutante, a dillettante, black, white, green, grey, yellow, blue, working class, middle class, or upper class has anything to do with this case. What is unique about this case is that it is associated with a notable and highly respected university. Remember, UVA is a State school not private.
This case is about murder and proving if there was premeditation involved, which I'm not seeing. Sure the emails that mention the word "kill" and Huguely's drunken rage when arrested at W&L yelling "I'll kill all y'all, I'm not going to jail" show a violent temper but it doesn't prove that he planned on killing Yeardley. How many times have we all passively said when cut off in traffic or annoyed at someone's rotten behavior things to the effect of "I could have killed that guy?"
While personally I believe that Huguely is guilty as sin, I'm putting my money on a involuntary manslaughter ruling. Unless, they put George on the stand, we will never really know what was going on in his mind that night in 2010.
@Captain Crunch Girl: Like, oh my God, are you, like, serious? What if he was desecrated with tattoos and piercings, would you still think he was "hot?" I hope you last post was meant in jest...
Oh, it's now 12:30PM EST, time to switch on the Twitter...unless Rhonda Quagmire is still feeling ill.
I don't think anyone's saying that GHV's impending graduation and start of life in the real world is any sort of excuse...just perhaps that could explain why he was becoming more unhinged toward the end of the year, as several friends/teammates have testified.
@Don't send - yes, the Haysom/Soering case is mostly forgotten by many people...at least until Tim Kaine tried to release Soering back to Germany. I grew up in Roanoke (not far from where the Haysoms were murdered), and it was HUGE there. I was probably 8-9 during the trial, but I remember seeing it on tv a lot, and my dad watched almost all of it. It would be on tv during the day and then they'd replay it at night. It is definitely intriguing.
@ Jefferson - I agree with you. I don't think the e-mail is enough for premeditation. I think the prosecution will be glad to get Murder 2, and the defense would be thrilled with involuntary manslaughter.
And I don't think GH would be able to explain what was going on in his head, even if he takes the stand. That's the alcohol for ya....
Jefferson Churchill - out here on the West Coast we don't happen to have that unique culture fed by elite private prep schools in our public universities called lacrosse. And UVa is unique for that reason, as any other public university that fields that sport.
As I said, if GHV was not from a lacrosse program and wealthy, this entire story would be a non-starter, just a bunch of drunk folks having a dispute and it would already be done.
Why are you interested in the case? Would you be following the case if it were a walmart worker who killed his fat girl friend in their tract house? I am surre George Huguely and Y, Love have tatoos because everyone has them.
@Afraid - I really don't think it's the lacrosse in particular, but the fact that his family is wealthy and he's a collegiate athlete. I don't see the coverage being any different if George was a UVA football player and Yeardley was a swimmer....do you?
Does anyone notice that he has a funky left eye? I think he has a cyst.
CCG - interested in the trial because it confirms my opinion of what I witnessed in college, people like you, GHV, etc. are shallow & emotionally bankrupt human beings. It's great to see that real life confirms my college impressions. BTW, CCG, what is your obsession with fat people, is that all you can see when you meet a person? CCG, you should be aware that a Walmart employee cannot afford a tract house (here is an reading assignment for you - go read Nickel & Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich, then you might learn that a Walmart employee can neither afford to rent nor buy a tract house).
kate burg - I think in fact I said that this case is receiving way too much attention because of the wealth of GHV. As for lacrosse, I never said it was the case it was receiving media attention, my point was that on the West Coast public universities don't have these programs (the point was being made that UVa is a public university). As for the example of a swimmer - my brother & sister swam for Stanford and the team didn't have this kind of nonsense going on, you don't make the Olympic team and win the NCAA Division I championships (or PAC-12) with this kind of partying. And before you say it, that is not to say they didn't party, but this trial describes a general dissipation that I never witnessed in years of being around AAU and PAC-12 swimming.
I also remember the Haysom Trial. I don't remember though how UVA handled it. I hate to associate myself with ding dong cereal girl but I agree with her that looks and age have everything to do with this trial. The lurid details are just icing on the cake in terms of interest. I would suggest though that a little more reverence for Ms. Love be shown and not making comments so light hearted.
@ Afraid - I was just using swimming as an example. I think some people (not you) have really played up the lacrosse aspect of the case, but I don't think that's the reason for the attention. I think the wealth is the main factor, and the fact that both were Division 1 college athletes certainly adds to the drama for outside observers....I just don't think it's lacrosse specific at all. Could have happened anywhere, and if the circumstances were similar, I think it would still be garnering a lot of media attention. Whether that's right or wrong.
@RL - Thank you for the sociology lesson and your insight on the income gap. That book was a pile of leftist rubbish. As your opinions on college drinking, no one forced you engage in it so don't knock it. At the end of the day you got your diploma right? Move on.
@CCG - My interest in this case stems from the fact that went to one of the, as RL donned, "elitist prep schools" that one of Huguely's team mates went to and the father of Caitey Whitely, Yeardley's roommate and friend, was my high school math teacher and college counselor. I briefly played lacrosse in high school, but discovered that working at the gas station on the weekend was more lucrative and I got my cigarettes and booze for free, no need for a fake ID. Furthermore, a majority of lacrosse players have egos that would make Charlie Sheen humble and are inveterate womanizers who develop heavy drinking habits well before enrolling at university. I will agree with RL on this point: lacrosse is a cult in MD/DC/VA.
Also, I wouldn't say George is an emotionally bankrupt human being, on the contrary I would argue that he has too much emotion and doesn't know how to properly channel it--to put it lightly.
Jefferson Churchill - I didn't drink in college, where do you learn your critical thinking skills (which include reading for detail & comprehension). Leftist garbage, I believe you just confirmed what a great many think of the Southeast US - a bunch of closed minded Red Staters. Since you are not the moderator of this website, I believe I'll move on when I'm good and ready to move on.
In my book, an emotionally bankrupt human being is someone who cannot make a connection to another human being unless they are drunk, doesn't see women for anything but a sexual hookup, doesn't want to entire real life (as stated by others here), assaults their parents (as previously reported), assaults persons of authority (like a police officer), and is otherwise a thug. GHV assaulted others with his fists (have you forgot how he attacked a previous romantic rival in bed by ambushing him), that is too much of one emotion and it is called anger, unidimensional and otherwise emotionally bankrupt since he has no other expression of his feelings.
RL: First of all I could care less if you drank in college or not. Second, I'm not situated in the Southeast US, I live in Maryland which is the mid-Atlantic and is a notorious Blue State. Third, it sounds like you are a proletarian scholar who resents people who come from privilege and are using this forum to lash out your rage against wealthy white people. George Huguely does NOT represent every white, lacrosse playing, hard partying, college student that you didn't like in college. Yes, I am aware of his criminal history and yes I believe there could have been more done on the part of the UVA coaches and his teammates to intervene. But it is too late now.
So, do you think Yeardley Love was "bankrupt and shallow" human being for having dated a man like Huguely in the first place?
Looks like no trial today so here is where I see things shaking out…
It is my understanding that the Murder1 verdict could be derived by either proving premeditation & subsequent murder OR murder committed during the course of a felony (i.e. stolen computer valued in excess of $200). If that is correct than it seems to me that the jury may have seen/heard enough to elect Murder1…I hope so.
That being said, I expect the jury will “settle” on Murder2 as a compromise between jurors favoring Murder1 versus jurors favoring InvolMan. It hardly seems logical that there will be unanimity within the jurors around either end of the spectrum so there is bound to be a compromise outcome here.
My take is that although GH was obviously drinking a great deal that day, he also had developed a great, great tolerance for alcohol by that time and may not have been as inebriated as some want to portray and/or believe. On that fateful night, GH was lucid enough to: 1) Go to YLs to “talk”, 2) lucid enough to take and discard a computer in a trash bin (and subsequently recall exactly where), 3) lucid enough to flirtatiously text girls throughout the night and 4) lucid enough to lie to his roommates on his whereabouts. Somewhat miraculously, GH was coherent at 7:45 am the following day and able to respond to all questions broached by the police. If my distant college memories serve me correct, on those days/nights where I had drunk too much, I had no real ability to certainly remember specific prior night actions and timelines the following morning at 7:45 a.m.
I do not believe that GH accidentally murdered YL because he was drunk; he purposely intended to cause bodily harm to her because he was an enraged, out of control psychopath who was simply under the influence of alcohol that day. It appears GH had lived his college years (at a minimum) in an out of control fashion and YL was the tragic victim of a GH collective system (self/Parents/ friends/coach/wealth & privilege) of abhorrent inaction.
LaxDad: Sound analysis. It just occurred to me but why hasn't the defense entered a plea of "temporary insanity?"
Off topic here, but Jefferson, I've got to say that you rock. I had to read Nickel and Dimed for a course (at UVA) and found it to be horrible. I couldn't believe she was so self-righteous about being fired for failing a drug test. Unbelieveable.
Kate: Thank you, but I guess in RL's eyes that makes you and I (alumnus of Skidmore and Boston University) "elitist, right-wing, Red Staters."
Oh, and since RL brought the matter of race into the equation, does anyone know if there are any African-American, Asian-American, Hispanic, or other race of non-caucasoid origin on the jury?
@Jefferson..I'm also a little surprised that there was no apparent tox panel run on GH upon arrest. I'm not sure what SOP is in this case but I would have expected some type of tox run and subsequent reporting of the results on him...maybe I just missed it.
@JeffersonChurchill - you are right about the treat of killing someone alone does not indicate intent BUT here is the twist if I say it all I want - nothing can be done but if I then act upon it - that is intent to kill.
Now, another twist is this - a threat in person is just that and nothing can be done unless someone acts upon it (above). But if a threat is via phone, email, social networking, text message etc. and the victim goes to the police (especially in VA) - the person who sent the threat will be arrested.
Also - one has to see this - obviously something (a hand, arm etc.) covered YL's mouth with such force to rip her lip. From bruising and marks, something wrapped around her neck and caused injury where at one point she couldn't breathe and something delt the final blow which knocked her out. So there was a whole lot of blows and items done to cause her death. Making this simple - I don't intend on killing someone, I just beat them up. I wouldn't strangle them or cover their mouth. And anyone who attempts to or does strangle someone - your intent is to kill!
The intent to kill can be formed within seconds of you doing it.
His walking away with the laptop - and she obviously wasn't conscious when he did that - if she was, he wouldn't have taken it - so leaving her there with her injuries also is intent to kill because obviously without medical attention she died. Could she have lived, maybe, we don't know.
It goes back to his taped interview of her flopping around like a fish - if any one here saw someone doing the same - I hope we all would call 911 for them to get help.
And the excuse of his being drunk - doesn't fly here. Being impared doesn't excuse the results.
I also agree with another comment here on another article - I hope the judge makes sure to obtain a note from his attorney's doctor for her illness. They are trying to get all the testimony as far away from their performance as possible. And if she gets it from that Chicago Doctor, I would ask for a second opinion.
LaxDad: I too am perplexed on why I have not been able to find any reports on Huguely's BAC was on the morning he was arrested.
Cville Native: There is no question in my mind that he did it. Part of me wants to think that they started arguing, it got physically out of control, he panicked and took the laptop not realizing what he had done. The other part of me thinks, based on the text messages to the other girls, that he knew Yeardley was drunk and since he was drunk figured she'd be open to a little "ex-sex." Afterall, they were all parting ways in the weeks to follow and that is what healthy college kids too, at least in my day. Obviously, Yeardley didn't see it that way and George lost his temper whereby in the back of his mind he didn't mean to inflict fatal harm but the mix of alcohol, anger, frustration, and an unawareness of his strength took over.
The problem is WHAT was the "blunt force trauma?"
Jefferson - I believe I read somewhere that the jury had two African Americans. I assume the remainder were white, but not sure. I also think it was mostly male? Could be wrong on that.
Yes, it's strange that GH's BAC wasn't taken, or hasn't been mentioned yet. If it was very high, the defense could use that to support their manslaughter argument, and if it was low, the prosecution could use that to support their case. So, I'm guessing the police didn't take it.
@Captain Crunch Girl - don't think anything out there is beneath you ever - I know you might be smarter than some who may be attending community college or who graduated and are working retail or whatever. Here is why I am tellling you this, those going to community college save money and can then transfer and behold their degree is from a 4 year institution. Truly the more skilled labor force out there doesn't have the legacies of their children going into that work now - big salaries to those that know how to do it. (Once the economy recovers.) Also, are you aware if you compare the hours a doctor works, minus insurance and the student loans and put in their salaries, they make less sometimes than those folks a Walmart? Keep an opened mind, it will serve you well. Even for people you don't think you have anything in common with or that you don't agree with, keep your mind open. You will have the advantage in life.
Kate: I know one of the jurors is a female paediatrician, so she will definitely have some clout in deciding on the verdict based of off the medical testimony. Also, considering the judge denied the defense's move to strike tells me that this may turn out to be murder one afterall.
Jefferson, I am a graduate of the Holton Arms School. You might know this as the sister school to Landon. I won't divulge my year. My interest in this case has nothing to do with his school or background. It has to do with my own drinking in college. Many mornings I awoke only to feel the bed to make sure I didn't pee or having as tranger next to me. I hated the inevitable, "you were out of control last night" from friends. I can only imagine the intense feeling of despair when the moment of sobriety and reality hit him in a jail cell. That being said, I have kids now. I know only too well the obnoxious kids that starting in lower school have self confidence that is borderline pathological and how they treat other kids. They come in all packaging including, soccer players, swimmers, muscians, or stoners. One thing they have in common is dysfunctional home lives. Being dropped off in a mercedes does not cover that daddy is screwing his assistant or that mommy is one coach bag from maxing out her credit card or the house is one payment away from forclosure. George's life was out of control long before UVA.
Here we go again back to endless speculation -- Of the only four people with any direct knowledge of what happened May 3, 2010 in that apartment one is dead (after a day of heavy drinking -- BAC between .14 and .19 means heavy drinking), one had by all accounts been drinking ALL DAY and exhibited signs of impairment and likely couldn't tell what exactly went down IF he wanted too, and the two who first found Ms. Love face down in her bed had also been drinking (probably heavily). That is the huge problem with this case. There are no witnesses who had not been drinking that day/evening/ and for the roommate and her friend, into the next morning.
One can speculate all they want on whether Huguely was too impaired to know what he was doing, but the evidence presented by the prosecution did not conclusively answer that question -- to me that equals reasonable doubt on premeditation. I have not researched VIrginia pattern jury instructions on the felony murder charge -- maybe one of you have, but generally speaking, both robbery and burglary are "specific intent" crimes, which means in this case to prevail on FM, the prosecutor needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Huguely intended to steal something when he entered the apartment (for burglary) or that he took the laptop with the intent to deprive Ms. Love of its use forever, and, I guess, that it was worth more that $200 (for robbery). Even if he entered the apartment with the intent to hit her, I doubt that qualifies as FM, since the statute specifically enumerates the covered felonies, and assault nor battery are listed. Again, the prosecution has not presented irrefutable evidence on these issues. Can the jury convict -- of course, but there do seem to be holes in their very thoroughly presented case. Could they have plugged them, probably not given the lack of sober witnesses.
No one has made anything of the fact that the judge denied the defense's motion to dismiss at the close of the prosecution's case. That is good 1.) because such motions are routine and required to preserve appeal rights; and 2.) there was no likelihood the judge was going to grant the motion because if he did and the Commonwealth prevailed on appeal, then the case would have to be completely retried. Although I doubt he would do so, the judge would have an opportunity to adjust a jury verdict in a manner favorable to Huguely, if he wanted to at the end of the trial. If he were then overruled on appeal the case would not have to be retried. It seems at all costs, the court wants to avoid a retrial. (oops -- JeffC did).
On GH's BAC -- maybe the police didn't want to create evidence for the defense. Did the officer who questioned GH take the stand? Was she asked his demeanor that morning -- by either side?
I am interested because...: Yes, I know Holton Arms pretty well, I dated a girl from there once who told horror stories of how her classmates who played lacrosse and were dating Landon boys who played lacrosse, would alter their diets to appeal to their jock boyfriends. I agree with you that dysfunctional families are not confined to one social class.
Kate: Seven men and Seven women on the jury.
An Observer: So basically the judge's ruling helps Huguely somewhat? Also, your pointing out that nearly all the witnesses directly related to the defendant were equally or more so intoxicated is good. This whole trial seems like everyone is trying to remember a horrible hangover from two years ago. I have trouble remembering a hangover from three weeks ago.
JeffC -- I don't think the judge's denial of the motion to dismiss was helpful to Huguely. But it is not really harmful, because those motions are rarely granted.
At the end of the trial, the defense will renew their motion, and it will almost certainly be denied again. The defense has to do this to preserve its appeal, if any.
If George was able to compose texts in the hour before assaulting Yeardley, does that negate any argument that he was so impaired he could not form clear thoughts?
Observer: Thanks.
Ali: we don't know what those texts said or if they appeared to be written by an inebriate. People "drunk text" and "drunk dial" people all the time and forget about them in the morning. But, yes I do see your point.
FWIW -- Huguely's attempts to contact the three young women were May 1, the night before Ms. Love died, according to the story above. Accordingly, they shed no light on his level of impairment during the time at issue here.
What relevance the prosecution thinks they do have will likely be explained in closing arguments. Since the prosecution presented evidence that both Ms. Huguely and Ms. Love were "sleeping around" (using old folks' parlance) while they were dating, I have to say I wonder about the relevance, but expect to hear the prosecutors take on them next week.
Don't send me -- just found a 5/8/10 Balt. Sun article on Ms. Love's funeral. The article references an essay Ms. Love wrote freshman year of high school that was reprinted in the funeral program. In that essay she stated her aspiration at that time was to attend UVa to play lacrosse and to then attend UVa Law School.
@An Observer - you can read that essay on the website for the One Love Foundation, which Yeardley's mom and sister started in her honor. It's an image towards the bottom of this page:
http://www.joinonelove.org/?page_id=2
Thanks, Kate. I was looking for references that Ms. Love was planing to attend law school at the time of her death. (Mentioned above by "Don't send me to the real world.") So far the only reference to law school I have seen was this essay written when Ms. Love was a high school freshman.
@Observer - I've wondered the same thing. I've never seen anywhere that she was planning to attend or had been accepted to any particular law school. Perhaps she was planning to take a year off and then go to law school.
I wonder if she'd still want to be a lawyer had she lived to a trial like this...
*lived to see a trial like this...(sorry)
Honestly, law school may have just been a long-discarded, school-girl dream. UVa is a very tough school. Even with the academic support the varsity athletes receive, it is hard to fathom the grades necessary for law school (particularly one like UVa) especially with the amount of drinking apparently going on. Other than this essay, I have never heard she had plans for law school -- and I have followed this pretty closely from the beginning. Of course I could have missed that along the way.
NY Daily News: Clausen, a three-time All American lacrosse player at UVA who was one of Love’s pallbearers, is no stranger to tragedy. As a prep football player at the Hill School, he delivered a devastating, but legal hit on Blair Academy football player Kurt Socha during a 2005 game at Blair. Socha, a senior at the time, went into a coma before dying just over two weeks after sustaining the injury. Socha was 18.
Sam: Clausen's case was truly an accident.
Observer: I don't know what Yeardley's (or George's) GPA was but having a brief experience at Boston College Law, they looked more at my LSAT scores than anything else. i'm sure UVA does the same given their applicant pool.
Observer: Law school wasn't for me so I dropped out. Now finishing a masters in Military History at Norwich University, much better fit as I'd rather defend or prosecute people who are already dead that fought for a noble (or not so noble) cause. See Gallipoli.
JeffC, absolutely -- LSAT's are key for admissions these days.
I have probably belabored this too long, but my point here is to respectfully suggest, there is no evidence I can find that Ms. Love intended to attend law school at the time of her death. That career plan was mentioned by someone else and offered here as a "truth." The source cited was a Baltimore Sun article. In looking back at the Sun's coverage of Ms. Love's death, I found an article on her funeral. That referenced a sweet essay Ms. Love wrote in 9th grade mentioning her future plans. When Ms. Love was a freshman in high school she wrote she wanted to attend UVa law school following an undergraduate career at the school playing lacrosse. Someone heard law school connected with Ms. Love and extrapolated from that that she was off to law before her death. That doesn't appear to be accurate -- but people remember what they think they heard. (I think we can all appreciate the what we wanted at ninth grade, may not be what we want or even be possible our senior year in college.) That is one of the challenges of following a case like this. Not only is everything said not necessarily true, but one needs to check periodically what they think is true . . . .
How's Vermont this winter?
Observer: Just read that UVA Law is following this case as a learning tool. Also, I'd be curious what Alan Dershowitz' opinion is on this as he defended Claus von Bulow and won.
JeffersonChurchill- I'm an NU '71 grad............sittin' here in Ruckersville
SkipD: Cool, did you major in history? And where is Ruckersville?
I am glad to hear that -- I think that's a very appropriate response to this tragedy. I especially appreciated UVa President Sullivan's request to have a Criminal Law professor from the Law School hold a seminar on the legal aspects for the undergraduates before the trial started.
Majored in staying out of Viet Nam..............just north of Charlottesville.
Let's take it off line-
@JeffersonChurchill = blunt force trauma? - the bruise to her right side of her face - had there not been talk that what caused the brain to bleed was the blunt force trauma - ie her head hitting the wall or the floor.
Ah - you have more faith in GH5 than I do. I see him as an egotistical, arrogant, narcissistic jerk who believes he is above the law, has no remorse for anyone else but himself (based on current actions/reactions and past). I think he went there out of anger because she was not responding to his emails to "talk".
I've known his type before and sooner or later they find themselves in a court of law - not for murder but other items too. I think he intended to kill her right before he did it. That is all that is needed for 1st degree - but that is also my theory and I truly can't state that is a fact too. Just my gut feeling and my gut is always right.
I don't see the point of posting someone's personal information in a comment section about this trial. It was and is completely inappropriate and, frankly - rude. And it was rude - no matter if one drank in college or not, no matter if one went to a prep school or not, no matter if one went to any school on scholarship or is from a rich family and is set for life. Very inappropriate. Need a sticker reminder for you RL: "Mean people suck." Thanks for being simply mean. Congratulations. I was enjoying reading people's perspectives except the Capt. Crunch comments for obvious reasons. Human beings can't even have a decent discussion on a comment board - well no wonder the whole world is going to ca ca right quick. Thanks for helping the ride down RL - keep up the good work.
@jeffersonchurchill - ignore this entity......mean people should be avoided. Defendant in this case was mean. And if many had avoided him - things would be different. Congratulations on your career. Nice skills and you should be proud of them. I note - the internet is not private and mean people know this and like to bother people. Perhaps RL has no one to argue with around him/her so has taken to trolling the internet for "mean fun". Which is gross but him/her on their own path.
I will say it again. Mean people suck. There is no reason to post someone's information in a comment section in this discussion. It matters not to the discussion at all. Hey - you want to be mean - your life. But then again.....mean is mean and does not care. Ever. Laugh all you want. You obviously think you are funny.
And good night mean person. I avoid mean people as often as possible. Dirty energy. Thank you everyone else on this board for the comments. An interesting read until it was dragged down by foolishness of one - which is all it ever takes.
Afraid -- re your earlier comments on lax -- CO and CA are the next lax hot beds. A star UVa player is from San Francisco. His brother is joining him this year or next. Chapman University in LA area won or came close to winning college club lax championship recently. There are far more high school lax stars than there are slots on D1 rosters. Men's college lacrosse growth has been limited by Title IX. Rest assured that Lax is expanding far beyond the corridors of private/prep schools. It is the fastest growing sport in the US and is being played at an ever increasing number of public schools around the country.
You differentiate college swimming ethos from college lax -- you are right, they are very different. One is a solitary, individual sport and one is a team sport. Makes for much different preparation and training. The ultimate in swimming is an individual place on the US Olympic team. The ultimate in US lacrosse, is a collegiate championship -- Lax is not yet an Olympic sport because not enough countries play it at a high enough level. This difference makes for a much different focus for the college athlete.
Sade - and where is it mean to call out someone who provides all of their personal information and attacks me? BTW, what I was specifically referring to, so you might protect yourself in the workplace in the future, is that under most employers' terms of service you are NOT allowed to cruise the internet and make postings (especially when you provide such identifiable information as Jefferson Churchill has) when you are being paid to be at work - in other words, don't cruise the net and post from your work account or when you are supposed to be at your duty station. Pretty easy, isn't it? That isn't being mean, it means if you aren't doing what I just said you are ripping off your employer. This is a teachable moment - don't cruise the internet and engage in a debate while you are at work in an issue that violates your terms of service that you agreed to as part of your employment.
Think I'm mean? If an employer doesn't block this website, if they find out you are parked and commenting, you are toast -- especially when you may expose data via a HIPAA violation.
Afraid -- I did not intend to suggest Chapman is D1. I cited the school as an example of a flourishing west coast lax program. Don't know the financial health of the school generally, just that it has a top-notch video/film program with its own sound stage.
I do not dispute the rigors of college swimming -- only the most dedicated stick with the sport, which is really quite a lonely existence. To excel one must stay in absolutely top physical condition, which precludes much if any typical collegiate social life. That said, not sure where you get your dig on SEC swimming -- Auburn has won the D1 title 6 of the last 10 years. A big difference between swimming and lax is that that while conditioning is important for lax, one also needs innate hand-eye coordination and quickness to excel at the highest level. Swimming is more about hard work and the right body type. Most HS swimmers I have known switch to club water polo at the
collegiate level, for the team and social aspects.
Lax as the sport of the elite/privileged is an old stereotype that is changing rapidly as the sport spreads across the country. Our local HS team looks like the UN -- and it takes a lot of fundraising to get sticks in the hands of new players, but we make it work. If you haven't watched a game, your should -- it is truly the "fastest game on two feet," and very exciting to watch.
An Observer - I did not mean to put in a dig on Auburn, sorry if it made it seem so. And you are correct, hand-eye coordination is a differentiation, I certainly could never have done it (and for the record, I wasn't a PAC-12/NCAA swimmer neither, I much preferred the even more solitary sports of climbing, backpacking, & skiing).
No disrespect to the athletics involved in lacrosse & field hockey, there are Pacific Islanders who practice field hockey regularly where I walk my dog and I don't think I could play that sport well (nor could I have ever played it well after a skiing accident).
Here's hoping to an outcome that will help heal Charlottesville, what ever that may be.
We can certainly agree on your last point -- signing off now from the "right" coast.
and now back to the case at hand??????????
RL; It was of course out of line to post those details...just no need to have done it as JC had already provided his name and anyone could look the stuff up. So yeah, on the one hand it is out there by his own doing, it is public info., blah, blah, but still no need to have gone the extra mile or to have made insinuations. I have to admit I was surprised at how hysterical JC became about it, given that it's all already out there and he'd provided his name.
I can understand RL's irritation. JC does enjoy exercising sarcasm and, it sometimes seems that just for the sake of it, a contrarian position. I posted a while back (in response to JC stating he felt GH would have to live w/ this for the rest of his life) my opinion that GH was/is w/out remorse- and it was just that, an opinion. His response was a clipped : "whether or not you think he is remorseless is beside the point." Predictably my response would have been "well, you first served up an opinion on his emotions of this, so why can't I share mine?" So it seemed a mildly provocative statement to me, but I let it go as the net is full of folks who have a one way view of opinions or just have to have the last word at all costs. I don't mind sharing, as I have read so many posts, that my opinion on JC is that while his interest in the case is very real, he's likely (again, in my opinion) to be one of those folks who affirms an identity by association- my opinion being formed by his endless comments of his associations to these schools, the lifestyle, etc., etc. Just strikes me as one of those folks who wishes to coattail this thing into some kind of perceived web-celeb status for himself. The angry, name calling, cursing responses are not serving him well (in that they are disproportionate to the offense) so to that I say it's probably most graceful for him to smooth out his skirt, dry his eyes, and move forward.
Having read all the comments I thinkWE ARE HERE BECAUSE ON SOME LEVEL WE RELATE TO GEORGE whether it be from our backgrounds, drinking, UVA, larosse or whatever and/or GEORGE (allegedly) SPENT HIS LIFE FEELING HE WAS A DEMI GOD AND ITS NICE TO SEE HIM SHAKE IN HIS BOOTS NOW.
I would also ask the Hook to take down the personal information provided by RL. Please please don't have this person ruin it for us all.
Also, lets not put in our political views. Nowhere in this case is politics involved and to be quite honest - I think that is what set this argument off in the first place. I also was a drunk in college and I also have private school background. Like JC I was a nice kid and did not feel the need to hang out in any group for validation and payed dearly for this in the immature world of high school and college. Like other posts, I also am a grown up now and see my own child going through the same thing. I think many of the readers have this in common and it seems to be why we are so "in" to the case to the point that we feel the need to post comments.
'Jefferson', or 'quit the bickering please',
You're right. I am here because I was drunk in college, and boy can I relate!
Does what's his name know that you are impersonating him? If not, don't worry about it. I doubt that he will mind.
Sorry. I didn't check the names so I don't know who I am impersonating. If there is a previous post from that name - it is not me. I just made "quit the bickering" myname because it is more interesting to find information about the trial and why people are so interested than to try to read over comments involving politics.
That was really uncalled for, and The Hook should remove RL's posts.
Call me crazy, but I don't see at all how Jefferson attacked RL. We were having intelligent discussions about this case and aspects thereof.
Kate: I've contacted The Hook. Also, I'll admit it was pretty stupid of me to reveal my name. I've hence shut down my LinkedIn account. I enjoy debate, obviously, and like to put an edgy spin on things. Nothing I say is meant personally. Anyway, moving forward...
Read through the comments. A keen eye will see that when Jefferson posted a comment about Obama. He became bolder several posts afterwards and a bit pompous. RL's attack is a sign of rage which shows irony because this case is about rage. RL's rage was premeditated because he googled the facts.
That aside, I will throw a dagger into all of this. Today on the news (and all week) I have been molested by reports of Whitney Houston and her fabulousness. During her life she was neither. When someone dies tragically we tend to only show their wonderful qualities. The deceased in the Huguely case has been imortalized into a saint but was she not part of the same so called elitist subculture?
The incriminating email simply shows GH5's history of violence. IMO, it's the forced entry that shows premeditation. One doesn't usually kick down a door if one only wants to "talk." Forced entry, dead girlfriend, stolen laptop. IMO, M1 is still on the table.
One thing that keeps me coming back to the Hook again and again and again is that here the sideshows have sideshows. Great work overnight guys!
I haven't seen anything that I'd characterize as Mr. Jefferson personally attacking RL (and I've read through all of this again to double check), just a lot of posts dripping with the sort of arrogance which he seems to be desperate to tell us we shouldn't necessarily associate with those who attend fancy prep schools. Ironically, the schooling one receives in those places doesn't seem to do much for common sense. (See sideshow 1.A)
If you post personal information about yourself on the internet under your own name and then freely provide a series of facts elsewhere on the internet (like your actual name dum,da, dum, dum) that can be used to ferret out that information, you simply have no one else but yourself to blame when connections are made. That said, posting personal information in this context is unnecessary to say the least unless it was posted simply to fluster Mr. Jefferson, which it has done to quite amusing effect.
Nothing particularly damaging has been revealed unless an art degree is something to be embarrassed about in military history circles. Actually I'd say JC has merely been humanized a bit seems like an interesting person in his "real world" life. I'm able to tolerate fair bit of arrogance from the interesting, even a bit of knee-jerk liberal bashing now and then.
Funny post saywha. I also think it prooves the point that we all like to associate ourselves with something when it makes us look somehow better then others or puts us into a story and some of the posts (including my own) proove this.
This is better than Jerry Springer. You people are a bunch of freaks.
@Afraid of RL? - I totally agree you are mean and one of my careers is a Prospect Researcher - where I research people for weath. (Note - all the mailings you get from your former schools - you are researched to see what catagory you fall in and placed on specific listings. And for the record, my brian contains some very interesting facts and tid-bits about some of the most wealthy out there. Though some of it has come from personal contacts too.)
And it is true all info is out there for one to have access to, however, to post it to some comments section to expose someone just shows what sort of person you are.
I, on the other hand, if I would have used my skills and know how, would have kept that information to myself (and do), after all, truly intelligent people know when to play their hand and when to stay silent. Only using what I know when I need to or when appropriate.
JC - you have nothing to be ashamed of.
@saywha? - you fall into @Afraid of RL? sector by even slightly condoning their behavior.
I just learned there is a female pediatrician on the jury. Surely she will have some say about asphyxiation and all other conflicting medical scenarios.
And by the way-- RL.. way out of line to post JC's info! Just sayin'...
Now let's all get along and get back on topic...
Cville - your posts generally are interesting - we all agree that RL? was malicious, mean spirited and has uncontrolled rage. But honestly, while reviewing the comments before even scrolling to the "fight" it seemed to me that Jefferson was "inserting" himself somehow into the story and through the cloak of anomyninity he brought politics into it and I was immediatly turned off and stopped reading his posts. Quite frankly darling, your last post was a bit stalkerish and I am sure Jefferson isn't too excited about getting a message from you on facebook professing your undying support. Saywha was clearly using humor and not condoning anyone.
All of you: Please talk about the trial, let's move forward. And hopefully Hawes will delete the "fight" as one of you called it as requested. Thanks.
What trial? There's a trial? Of the 183 comments on this topic, the vast majority have absolutely nothing to do with the trial. One thing you can count on in "The Hook" comment section is the "Oh look, something shiny" mentality. No one ever stays on topic...myself a perfect example...
That said, GHV isn't getting a Murder 1 rap, but I don't think the jury will let him walk with Involuntary Manslaughter either...it'll be interesting how it all comes down.
I laugh, OMG its Paul. Something shiny, indeed. Refresh my memory, what would his options be?
@quit the bickering please - ? What? to quote you above: "Quite frankly darling, your last post was a bit stalkerish and I am sure Jefferson isn't too excited about getting a message from you on facebook professing your undying support. Saywha was clearly using humor and not condoning anyone."
1) I have not contacted anyone here through Facebook and know no one here - to me you are all anonymous, if I am on Facebook, I only am friends with those who I know.
2) Stalkerish - no, I tell you that it is true that most information is public on anyone and everyone, Privacy is a thing of the past with the Internet. I, however, do not use my skills of prospect research outside of the job I did or my own personal use (research of items like buying a home or a company I would invest or utilize their products or services, etc.) or using those skills for current jobs. Anything else would be unethical and I am not unethical.
@Vaughan, so true!!!
These girls could have saved a life if they had just given up a little squalus so George could drop a load in their snatches to vent his frustration.
@Vaughn, nah...not nearly as good as Jerry....we have no chairs to throw.
So back on track now.....