Face-off: Casteen to fight Cuccinelli climate inquest

The last time I went to a poll (when I registered, I hadn't gotten a college degree) and first voted, no one asked me about my education level. I have never been asked about my educaion level. I am convinced also that exit polls are useless. Did Gov. Wilder lose in the exit polls but actually win the election? Did it occur to you that most educated people did not participate in the exit poll? Would you also agree that the 2008 election was not the norm for elections?
"Let’s be honest - Republicans long ago turned off and wrote off educated voters." Unfortunately more and more people are voting for anybody that will provide them with government handouts.

Did it occur to you that most educated people did not participate in the exit poll? Would you also agree that the 2008 election was not the norm for elections?
***
Of course, most people did not participate in the exit poll. It's a sample. Are you suggesting that Republicans with graduate degrees were much more likely to decline to participate in exit polling than Democrats with graduates degrees? And this inference is based on what?

Ummm, you did notice that Democrat candidates have easily won among people with graduate degrees since 1992, right?

I guess that's why people are saying that America is going to the dogs.

I guess people commenting here about Cuccinelli's agenda are too cowardly to spell out in simple language to say what they think it is. Since nobody knows you, why not?

So, Cville Eye, you are saying the Virginia government should not be promoting the development of science and technology in the state? Then this is not about Mann, but rather about the state budgetary focus.

Your teacher premise also has a deep flaw. Obviously you can hire one person, or even denote the school security, to scrutinize computer records for the whole school. Who are you going to hire to go through every single grant given out ever in the state of Virginia? Who are you going to get to have the necessary expertise, and more importantly how much are you going to pay, to go through all the notes, data, charts, correspondence... etc? This exercise is a colossal waste of taxpayer's resources.

Certainly people outside the academia can look at the results. They have the same access as the scientists to the papers, and they can review the methodology and results there. To have Cuccinelli singling out a specific study that runs counter to his political belief, however, is wrong. It is the reason why scientists all over the United States are urging UVA to resist the CID, and it is the reason why Casteen is fighting this.

Motivation is the key here, as in what are Cuccinelli's?
1)If you truly believe he is fighting for the pockets of the people of Va. you must admit there are much more efficient causes to pursue with much greater impact potential than this.
2)He is first a politician. I have read mention of academia's "agenda" here but little of Mr. Cuccinelli's. He is not a public servant. That would be the officer who pulls you out of a ditch, the firefighter who rescues your family, teh EMT resuscitating your grandaprent. He is a politician and by nature has an agenda. If you honestly believe this man is here to fight for YOUR pockets, not his and his friends you are naive.
3)If we reflect on the man's short time in office a picture begins to form. This isn't the first action by his office to garner national media. That is surely not incidental. Keep in mind too the, shall we say "political flavor", of the first media grab.

Of course we should do the same for Casteen, and I'm sure similar arguments could be made in his case. Yet, I will say this in his defence; Academia as rule must be funded by government to have any credibility in independance. However, when government uses its strong arm, he is the AG not the budget office, to shape where and to whom research dollars go then its time for us to sit up and take notice.

"...to further a political agenda that should be decried." Maybe I would decry the agenda if I knew what it is.

I thought people mentioned it already. It is to pander to his conservative and Tea-Bagger base, who generally oppose the notion of global warming.

and that would be?

Isn't that organization in Florida? Is it registered in Virginia? Maybe it's a question of jurisdiction which would explain why he didn't as Stheir records.

Are you saying he’s willing to gamble alienating every person in VA who has allied himself with Academia for future votes?
****
Yes. Intellectually sophisticated people are never going to vote for a Cuccinelli. The Washington Post actually referred to his record of "bigotry" in editorializing against him before the November election. Unfortunately, anti-intellectualism goes over well in much of Virginia, particularly among older voters.

Look at Palin. Look at George W. Bush. Cuccinelli's a lot brighter than those two but realizes that many conservative voters distrust so-called "elites."

@research, from your link: Cuccinelli press secretary Brian Gottstein said the Virginia Office of Consumer Affairs administers Virginia's charitable solicitation laws and handles investigations of nonprofits but does not fall under the control of the attorney general.

"It would be atypical for the attorney general's office to initiate an investigation into a nonprofit," Gottstein said in a statement. He said the attorney general's office would chiefly become involved if an investigation led to legal action.

@JJ, "Perhaps my counter-factual example was confusing. I meant to point out that those now cheering the AG for this kind of investigation would likely feel differently were the situation reversed." Give us a example of a reversed situation. I thought this was it - "If a Democratic AG starts investigating more Republicans than Democrats for tax fraud, drunk driving or whatever, I’m sure you’ll feel the same way." Yes, I would. You began the conversaion about my feelings about Dems and Reps.

Unbelievable
I have to ask do you work in the public of private sector?

"Unbelievable
I have to ask do you work in the public of private sector?"

5 to 1 - Public.

Also lets think about it

If the people involved truly care then why don't they lead???

99.5% of them live in large homes drive large cars and fly in privare jets. Why??? If they really, really care they would be in 1500sqft homes etc.
ITS ALL joke
UVA is a JOKE

Buffett's a Dividend Investor, Why Aren't You?
_______________________
NYSE dividend yield

I am sure there are many other studies that go against his beliefs. He has a valid point. Was data skewed to achieve results he agreed with and to push an agenda? The release of those emails sure does make it a real possibility.

This state owes it to every taxpayer to ensure that fraud is not involved with any money that is dispersed. When an incident is reported or suspected it should be investigated to ensure it does not happen again and to serve as a warning to other applicants.

This is right along the same lines as welfare and tax fraud. Just because the word 'Academic' is used does not mean a person is above the law.

Are you saying he's willing to gamble alienating every person in VA who has allied himself with Academia for future votes? How does he expect to get elected to another job?

It's raining money, and the weasels are stampeding to stuff their pockets.

Golly gee-whiz, what a surprise. The UVA Robot administrator leaves UVA to become a political hardball pitcher for the home team. Who would have guessed - everybody, I would think.

Out with the old and in with the really old. Change everyone with a vested interest can believe in--bought and paid for with our Federal tax dollars.

Looks like the ladder to the top of the money tree is getting more crowded with every gold coin toss. The little people (those not quite in the $25 million per anum range)have a lot to be thankful for. An economic stimulus from a tiny red-brick tower to a slightly taller immitation ivory tower. How poetic.

And why are these PhDs put in place for those problems? It is because they have the necessary expertise for those areas of specialties. And yes, in those expertise, they are clearly superior to you and me in knowledge. That blowout preventer did not fail due to the design. It failed because management decided to start using seawater too early. Toyota? Acceleration problems are fixed, and they aren't even the brand with the highest number of problems. They just got the media's attentions with sensational cases (like James Sikes)

It is also clear that you know absolutely know nothing about the CRU controversy, and did not review Mann's papers nor examine the statistical methods he used. None of the investigation units, including the British government and various scientific organizations, found wrongdoing by Mann. Penn State itself reaffirmed the techniques used by Mann was legitimate and proper. So here you are, believing yourself to know more than all these apparatuses, wanting to waste Virginia's tax money to pour over thousands of documents and data.

The same could be said about you regurgitating dribbles. Get off the Beck/Palin show, and start thinking for yourself.

I am not insinuating it I am stating it flat out. The only reason a PHD is nessasary to do a peer review is to protect themselves from people who will call them out. People with PHDs have a little more education but it does not make them any smarter. I am sure it was a phd that designed the blow off valve that failed in the gulf. I am sure it was a phd that designed the throttle system on those toyotas that kill people and I am sure it is an entire group of phds that cannot figure out why the throttles are still sticking.

Everybody knows that grants are handed out to further exisiting agendas and that grant writers suck up in order to get the money.

Get a real job and learn something real about life. Do something besides regurgitate other peoples regurgitated dribble and actually earn some money instead of taking money from people who worked for it in order to subsidize your personal agenda.

Mann has already been laid out as twisting the truth as far as he could.

Let the sunshine.

Are you insinuating that the grant community funds their personal agendas? Well then, why don't you go right ahead, earn the necessary PhD, and start writing peer reviews lambasting their papers?

Oh right, you probably have never read the papers.

I thought you left? Oh, but I guess the words "UVA", "Casteen", "Lawsuit" are too much for you.

If you wish to challenge Dr. Mann's studies, feel free to go look at the scientific journals he published in, critique it and write a peer review. (<Not that you are qualified, like Cuccinelli). The information there are open for all.

Of course, you would rather the state of Virginia waste hundreds of thousands of taxpayers' money to review his data, which has been further corroborated by other scientists. As the investigation team of East Anglia University states: "We saw no evidence of any deliberate scientific malpractice in any of the work of the Climatic Research Unit and had it been there we believe that it is likely that we would have detected it. Rather we found a small group of dedicated if slightly disorganized researchers who were ill-prepared for being the focus of public attention. As with many small research groups their internal procedures were rather informal."

Of course, this perfectly normal explanation will not satisfy your conspiracy mind.

Who better than to try and cover things up than Charlottesville's Captain Cover Up himself?

http://www.uvavictimsofrape.com/

http://uvalies.org/

Gee, I thought science was supposed to be open and honest and open for all to see and interpret? For peers to review and for conclusions to be drawn as to whether the data was good and the scientific method was followed faithfully? For people to be convinced by the overwhelming evidence, or to question the data and/or the process?

Seems like UVA is fiercely "protecting us" from knowing something as mundane as air temperature data and how it was compiled as much as they are at keeping us in the dark about medical science and sexual assaults.

Why wouldn't they be just handing everything over happily to prove to everyone how well spent our tax dollars were?

Go Cuccinelli!!!!!

Academics work can be scrutinized by the public. There are these things called "journals" that publish this thing called "research." Academics cannot receive funding or employment unless they publish their results. Academics and non-academics alike are encouraged to scrutinize those results. With the advent of the internet, anyone who takes the time or effort can educate themselves about a field and make major contributions.

Now, many of those journals charge on a per article or subscription basis. If you want to argue that those should be free, more power to you.

As to the idea that teachers computers can be scrutinized by their employers, this is certainly true. Any employer has the right to scrutinize their employees to make sure everything is on the up and up. They don't, however, have the right to make that information public, as the employees are entitled to a fair amount of personal privacy.

Academics are already among the most open people in the world. Almost all of them have public websites with their contact information. Their offices are open to anyone. All of their work is published in the scientific literature for all to see. Unless there is evidence of outright fabrication in their work, academics deserve what little privacy they haven't already given up.

@UVA alum, "In papers sent to UVA April 23, Cuccinelli’s office commands the university to produce a sweeping swath of documents relating to Mann’s receipt of nearly half a million dollars in state grant-funded climate research conducted while Mannââ?¬â? now director of the Earth System Science Center at Penn State ââ?¬â? was at UVA between 1999 and 2005." http://readthehook.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/oh-mann-cuccinelli-.... Regardless of where the tax payer money came from it is obviously under the oversight of the State that distributed it ( although I wonder, too, why the National Institue of Health would be funding this type of research). You know as well as I do, if Cuccinelli has no jurisdiction, UVA would ignore his request.
@Unbelievable, "So, Cville Eye, you are saying the Virginia government should not be promoting the development of science and technology in the state?" Do you think the State should be conducting research in out of space? It should be selective as to what research it conducts. Endangered species in VA for example, yes. Space travel no. Global warming, of course not. Both are out of the purview of the State.
"This exercise is a colossal waste of taxpayer’s resources."
So you're saying that if a corporation has indulged in fraud in corruption, the State should not waste its resources going through thousands of documents to detail it?
ââ?¬Å?Certainly people outside the academia can look at the results. They have the same access as the scientists to the papers, and they can review the methodology and results there.” Here, I believe you're saying that the State's oversight of state-funded research should be limited to what the grantee has published in a journal?
I'm getting the impression that some of you would like for Academia to be treated like members of a special class of people receiving State money, that is, like an elite group, apart from the run of the mill public.

UVA alum May 28th, 2010 | 2:02 pm
Cville Eye”Šthe state doesn’t fund grant studies for the most part, NIH does, it’s federal tax dollars and there a millions out their studying climate change because it is such a big problem

Maybe they don't teach you this at UVA but Federal Tax Dollars are STILL THE PEOPLE'S MONEY. Also the people that are saying that its "such a big problem" are the people HIDDING THE REAL DATA. If its a real problem they would be falling over each other to show the data.

True science can prove its conclusions, unless it doesn’t fit the agenda that you want to support. Then you might change a few things to fit the conclusion that keeps the money flowing.

Unbelievable
I hope his research is solid. If it is not there will be changes in funding procedures that the research world will not like. I believe this is why Acadamia is running scared right now.”

I would think a good person would want the research to be tainted. Then we could put that funding toward something worth while. Punish the people involved in the theft of public and the world is fine after all.

@Cville Eye

Ah yes, well, if everything is political to a politician, we should smile and accept these kind of blatant political games. Boys will be boys after all!

If a Democratic AG starts investigating more Republicans than Democrats for tax fraud, drunk driving or whatever, I'm sure you'll feel the same way. You know how these guys are!

At least it's refreshing to know that no one actually believes that this is really about fraud, they are just happy enough to go along with the charade while it benefits their side.

"Can you honestly say that this is not political on Cuccinelli's part? And does that not concern you in the least?" Everything to a politician is political, even his marriage, his children, his religion, his hair and his middle aged spread. Does it concern me? This is a fact that I have lived with for decades upon decades.

Eye, if I wrongly assumed your party affiliation, my apologies. Perhaps I should not have mentioned party labels, but my point remains. Few among Cuccinelli's supporters now would find the misuse of the AG's office for political gain acceptable in similar, yet reversed circumstances.

The inescapable fact, however, is that this is, at its heart, a purely political move. It's unfortunate that not everyone finds it objectionable, because it's precisely the fact that he's using fraud as an excuse to further a political agenda that should be decried.

No, S Jones, I am afraid of you wasting my taxdollar on your nonsense.

Nice little conspiracy you got there too. Its all the rage in America these days. Believe in any little crackpot stories you hear. No wonder its such a mess in this country.

"Lets see who is putting up the money!" I certainly don't want my tax money being used for this ridiculous request.

"True science can prove its conclusions, unless it doesn’t fit the agenda that you want to support. Then you might change a few things to fit the conclusion that keeps the money flowing."

True science can prove its conclusion, unless it doesn't fit the ideological minds of some people, who can the use their power to change the conclusions by persecuting those who originally made them.

"If”Š could”Š Fix the bridges bewfore somebody dies. Let the international community handle space research. Let Monsanto and the USDA handle the agriculture." If... could... Those words drive scientific research forward. If you do not understand that, then say no more on this subject.

"What does that mean, different standards for different people? A lot of academics work for corporation. If they are fraudulent using corporate money that’s on a different level than being fraudulent using government money that they are not entitled to and more than they are to corporate money? The comment is not making any sense to me, especially since these ââ?¬Å?academics” float between corporate and government employment several times during their careers."

And what would you do here, investigate every single corporations/academia in the state of Virginia every year? Here is the same scenario as Mann: If BP's BOP theoretically was designed at UVA with the help of research money from Dept of Energy, and federal government and other science organizations concluded it is not to blame, you would still let Cuccinelli go after BP, demanding all documents for the last 10 years to be transferred so he can have some nighttime readings?

"Are you suggesting that millions of dollars should be given out will-nilly?" Are you suggesting you are the only one capable of determining where grant money should go to?

"By just reading journals?
This global climate warming change stuff is set to become an economically-shattering business and it should be investigated thoroughly. A lot of academics stand to make billions, paid for out of the average man’s pocket. So we should be sure that it is not a sham." Mann's studies have been shown not be a sham by various organizations' reports, which you take the time and read yourself.

"What if the space research would bring potential jobs to the state? What if climate research could bring about agricultural advances?" If... could... Fix the bridges bewfore somebody dies. Let the international community handle space research. Let Monsanto and the USDA handle the agriculture.
"And please, you and I both know corporation corruption is on a different level." What does that mean, different standards for different people? A lot of academics work for corporation. If they are fraudulent using corporate money that's on a different level than being fraudulent using government money that they are not entitled to and more than they are to corporate money? The comment is not making any sense to me, especially since these "academics" float between corporate and government employment several times during their careers.
"And who selects what research should be conducted at UVA?" Are you suggesting that millions of dollars should be given out will-nilly?
"One of the main point in this case is that Mann has already been investigated by a whole assortment of governmental and scientific organizations, and none of them found wrongdoing." By just reading journals?
This global climate warming change stuff is set to become an economically-shattering business and it should be investigated thoroughly. A lot of academics stand to make billions, paid for out of the average man's pocket. So we should be sure that it is not a sham.

The "results" are not the issue... the facts behind the results are what matter. So if this guy threw away some results to skew the numbers then he committed fraud. If he did that then he stole money from the taxpayers. If he did that then the taxpayers have a right to prosecute.

If he didn't then he has nothing to worry about.

No different than the manager at wendds reviewing the security tape to see if the guy actually cleaned out the frosty machine.

whats the problem?

And who selects what research should be conducted at UVA? The almighty Cuccinelli? How do you judge what is useful or not? What if the space research would bring potential jobs to the state? What if climate research could bring about agricultural advances?

And please, you and I both know corporation corruption is on a different level. One of the main point in this case is that Mann has already been investigated by a whole assortment of governmental and scientific organizations, and none of them found wrongdoing. You seriously cannot claim that Cuccinelli would be the first person to probe Mann's studies.

I'm getting the impression that some of you do not like the research being presented, and thus would like politicians who share your views to pummel the scientists. Just like the old Roman Catholic Church.