Parkway panic: Rooker vexed as Dorrier rekindles Bypass

Mr. Dorrier should be ashamed of his reversal and he should be investigated. There is something fishy going on here.

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I believe she was commenting on Mr. Dorrier's appearance and if you had seen him last evening you would understand that there is something seriously wrong with Mr. Dorrier.

I was at the meeting as well and watched as Rooker tried everything in the book to stop this. First, this wasn't a vote to build the Bypass - it was a vote that allows the building of the bypass to be discussed, along with other roads the county wants to get some of the transportation dollars that have passed this area by for years. Before the Bypass would be built there will be other hearing and plenty of time for the public to further comment.

It seemed clear that Dorrier could only bring this up because he was on the side that voted against it the first time and he did so after talking with the Transportation Secretary. Again nothing seemed to have been promised but many other roads seem to have been discussed. Dorrier was open about why he changed his mind. There was nothing wrong or illegal about this- it was brought up in others matters part of the agenda- the only place Dorrier could have addressed it. The fact is was late had more to do with the hearing before it then anything nefarious.

So if the state only offer the money for the bypass the supervisors might not go for it. However if they give us money for widening 29 near Forest Lakes and the Berkmar bridge, then that might be something else entirely.

All this vote seems to have done is allowed other conversation that will generate more public meetings to occur. I would like to hear would the state will offer before turning it down and I'm glad that that this reversal occurred. I look forward to hearing more information about what the state is offering before saying I could support or reject the total package.

The process is what is at stake here, Dusty. Don't you care that this item wasn't even on the agenda, advertised to the public? This is typical backroom Boyd. For all the lip service paid to "freedom" and "transparency in government," this is somehow deemed as acceptable process. Ewww.

Is that John Lennon on the left?

Caroline your mind is made up and that's fine but it didn't have to be on the agenda, why do you say it does? This is done at every meeting (it's called matters not on the agenda) and it was a simple reversal of one vote that had a public hearing the previous meeting. The public was heard there. Dorrier says he heard new information from a state official and that change his mind (of course don't let what Dorrier actually said sway you from making another baseless accusation that will probably get deleted)

As for process, this vote seems get it allow to occur. It's not a vote to build the Bypass just one that let's us finally talk about other road projects as well that need to be addressed. Can't you wait until the state let's us know what it will and won't fund first? I can wait till then and make a decision when I've got all the facts.

This debate has been going on for a quarter century and CHO has already received (squandered?) $50 million for the project. How's that for hope and change? Git 'er done... before a federal judge steps in and makes you pave something you may not like.

correct @ North Korea, not Northern.

late night.

The Board members decided that themselves, Dusty. In fact if you go back and listen to the podcasts of the last year's meetings you will hear the exact moment whereby the decided that would be the process. I'm not going to do your homework for you. It's all online at the BOS website, Albemarle County. And this is by no means the first issue that has been brought forth in this manner. The democratic way to bring items onto an agenda is to have them put on there legitimately, not at 11:30 p.m. after a grueling and controversial public hearing. Dontcha think??

I like Mr. Dorrier very much as a person, but he is being used as a pawn here.

As a tax-paying citizen, I don't want surprises like this. I want transparency and open discussion, following the process that the Board itself has agreed to!!

It appears you and I are talking past each other, Caroline. You have not addressed the fact there was a previous public meeting or if simply discussion a bypass is wrong. The transparency is there- there was a public hearing on the matter- Dorrier gave several reasons for changing his vote- and there will be more discussion before anything is decided. Again the hour of the action is irrelevant because public comment wasn't allowed at that time anyway.

The only reason you seen to think it lacks transparency I would guess is because you don't even want to see the mere discussion of the bypass. But I don't want to put words in your mouth, Do you think there should be a discussion of the bypass and all the other road projects with the state at all?

And no, I have no problem with a discussion of the bypass. Again, keeping in mind that you and I are going to pay for it ALL OVER AGAIN only to have the state say "NO." It's almost laughable, honestly.

As far as the process, you will have to do your own homework there. Mr. Dorrier could have proposed that the bypass item be heard at their next full Board meeting so it could have appeared as an actual agenda item.

So why didn't he do so? I know the reason...do you?

If the state doesn't come up with money to build bypass or make a deal on other road projects you would have a great point that I would agree with. And the supervisors who back these new discussion will have to answer for that. But it seems that the state is already very serious about this and that means the money would have to be there. Dorrier said the he was talking directly with the transportation secretary himself, who else would he have to talk with to make you think the state was serious?

Why would they need another new hearing when they just had one last month? The matter was discussed fully, you could go to the County's website and look up the podcast of it. I'd put a link here but I don't want to do your homework for you-

Dorrier has finally done the correct thing for transportation. Otherwise Alb taxpayers should return millions of $$$ of wasted money to the State .
Then the returned money can be sent to other areas to break traffic tieups in areas like Louisa, Stanardsville, Culpeper.

Again, it's not really the potential outcome that is so disturbing here...it is the process of local government. The first comment says it all.

People around the world are fighting at their own peril for true democracy. Yet here we shrug our shoulders at the abuse of it and say "Meh. It's for the best."

Un-be-lievable.

Democracy (popular vote) is mob rule. Look at where it's gotten Greece. The Republican form of government is best, but can be a real bitch. Which is why concerned Americans should not treat any election as if it were American Idol. It's not a popularity contest... it's about doing the right thing. CHO/ALB has had at least 25 years and $50 million to deal with this bypass fiasco... and not a shovel has been turned. You all should be embarrassed that even the communities along US 29 who do not measure up to your standards have long since handled the bypass.

This vote was taken after a hastily strung together series of what I consider to be questionable motions. When the county attorney was asked for protocol to re-open the meeting so that Mr. Dorrier could change his vote, his answer seemed to me to be along the lines of... "well, sure, I suppose if you really wanted to DO this, you have to do A, B and C". I read his comments as saying sure, you 'could' vote on this tonight, but 'should' you??? And both Mallek and Rooker expressed concern that this 'new information' was withheld from them until immediately before the vote. They suggested putting the matter on the agenda for the June 30 meeting. Nope, nope, let's go ahead and do it NOW. hmmmm.... fishy, fishy.

And when relaying his reasons for changing his mind, Mr. Dorrier relayed some pretty quasi coherent second hand conversation with the Secretary of Transportation, and if I understood him correctly, the upshot of that conversation is that Albemarle County will have 270 million magillas to spend on the project. Wha? ummmm, I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd like to see something like that in writing before I acted in any way, shape or form on it.

From this Charlottesville Tomorrow June 2 article about last week's vote, a very prophectic quote from Dennis Rooker to Rodney Thomas: “It’s already been brought up three or four times in the past year....The votes have never been there do it, so you keep coming back with it. I guess at some point you’ll catch the public unaware." (I want this guy picking lotto numbers for me.)

From the same article:
George Larie, president of the Charlottesville-Albemarle Transportation Coalition, said he was shocked at Thomas’ request. 'This bypass has had massive citizen opposition during public hearings and has consistently been opposed by the Board of Supervisors for over 20 years,” Larie said. “It does not solve the traffic problem on Route 29, which is a local traffic problem, not a through-traffic problem.”

Caroline, you are spot on. If it walks like a duck....

Dennis Rooker's 1# issue has always been "stop the bypass!". It is what he has promised his neighbors and friends he will fight to the very end to stop. Why? Because it will put a big new road near his house and though many of his supporters property. There is nothing wrong with this but he just one supervisor who only represent 1/6 of Albemarle. There is no one more passion about stopping the bypass by any means necessary. Tell him you're for the bypass and stand back for a lecture on why you are misinformed, misguided, and perhaps even heartless.

George Larie is one of Dennis Rooker's biggest contributors in his last race. Is it really surprising that since Larie is an opponent of the bypass that he would have given thousands to Rooker's campaigns, even though he had no opponent.

Don't get me wrong, this two fine people have a right and some would say duty to fight for their beliefs but at the end of the day it's always seem liked enlighten self interest to me. Which again is fine and good as long as it is recognized what it is and not confuse it with the high mind and more noble cause they would prefer you to beleive their efforts are really all about.

Yes Mr.Dorrier it is time for you to retire......four years ago.

Oh, I think Dorrier is right on the mark. If there were ever two BOS members interested in the large landed estate owners, and shoving the cost of growth on the citizens of Charlottesville, and Albemarle residents living in the CHO ring, its Rooker and Mallek. Maybe now they will have to feel the pain, as they should for their tax break schemes.

I for one am sick and tired of coming in from the south side of town, and driving through the 29 stoplight development Hades to get to DC, or basically, anywhere north of Charlottesville. Often I shoot up through Gordonsville...BUT, I shouldn't have to. The County needs to pay the piper for their stupid development.

They don't want a bypass but they want a massive dam and pipeline and body of water. They do ant Charlottesville tp pay for that and bigger roads, but they don't want to do a darn thing for anybody else in this state. Yeah. Gotcha.

I like Dorrier, and I continue to support Dorrier.

To heck with the trucking companies. They treat their drivers like garbage, and endanger everyone on the road with their unserviced equipment and speeding.

Aww, thanks Chopped Liver. But I'm not really here to meet new friends. And hey -- I don't really care if anybody's a blow-hard as long as they are making salient points.

Just a little afterthought here...everybody does know that the proposed Western Bypass will end BELOW Hollymead right? So I guess it's just interesting to think, when all that land to the north is chunked up into developments (which it most certainly will be if the Board's current direction continues), what will the traffic be like as all the bypass travelers pour out onto Route 29 right under Hollymead?

Chopped Liver, I think you are on to something there. I was thinking the same thing as I read this thread.

What? The plan would he for the bypass to end south of Hollymead?? That would turn the new and growing developed area around the Hollymead Town Center into a real mess.

I live in north of town, and it seems pretty obvious the main cause of the traffic into town is due: 1) to lots of locals commuting to work and going to the stores along 29, and 2) all the traffic lights. I don't see how a bypass will resolve either of these two problems.

If the businesses in lynchburg don't like driving through town, too bad. Why should I subsidize those businesses ?

Why don't we build some more local north-south roads behind the Hollymead town center and this new short-pump look-alike that's going in at hydraulic and 29?

We'll need more capacity for local traffic throughput as this area north of town grows its residential areas.

to Jebmeister: You need to take a trip across the US. I just did from Las Vegas to Charlottesville by way of Phoenix, Tuscon, Roswell (NM), Lubbeck, Tx, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Texarkana, Natchez,MS, and other places back to here. We spent less than 10% of the total trip on the interstates. Do you know how many towns are going broke because of bypasses? I do. We decided to see what was left of the great country and we have come to the conclusion that building most new roads is a waste of money. If you believe that building the bypass will help commerce then you are ignorant or misinformed. Once the road is built then what? It will be easier for trucks carrying foreign made products for you and your family shopping at Walmart.

Newin Town,

The alignment for this bypass was done 15+ years ago...and yes, it's northernmost point ends south of Hollymead. Things were very different up there at that time, obviously. It seemed like that would be "the end" of development (ha!).

While I think a bypass is ultimately necessary, I think it would be a huge, huge mistake to build it based on the existing plan. Sure, "the state" says they will pay for it -- but that's still our taxpayer dollars! So we're gonna dump $200+ million into a road that is already outdated and tear up the countryside along the way.

P.S. This piece is full of opinion, but it is also full of good background information: http://www.roadstothefuture.com/US29_Charlottesville_Bypass.html

The proposed "new" route 29 bypass route is out of date. It will cause harm to the quality of life in Albemarle County and Charlottesville and all along route 29.

The "29 bypass" is being funded by VDOT for businessmen from southern Virginia, not for local commuters. It isn't going to help your commute, it is likely to make it worse. Much time and study has supported newer alternative transportation plans, the official local plans now in place, as being much better for local commuters. Changing Route 29 into a new major highway is not going to help Albemarle County.

Southern Virginia businessmen want route 29 to be a new major highway, for the convenience of truck transportation to and from their businesses. T If you believe VDOT and these businessmen, then you believe that this little Charlottesville 29 bypass will be such a major convenience for truck traffic that it will greatly improve their businesses in Lynchburg and Danville. The obvious conclusion to this logic is that it will attract MORE TRUCK TRAFFIC all along route 29. Residents of Charlottesville and the new communities all along Route 29 will suffer a loss of quality of life as MORE interstate and non-local, TRUCK traffic comes down 29 from Washington D.C. Traffic studies have already been done that show that most of the traffic on 29 is local traffic and the original bypass route is obsolete for the purposes of improving local traffic problems.

The Southern Virginia business community and VDOT, DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE QUALITY OF LIFE in Albemarle County, OR YOUR COMMUTE. They want to harness your commuter frustrations to get support for a new "interstate" 29 coming right through Madison, Green, and Charlottesville. Politicians are pressuring VDOT to satisfy their political business donors.

By the way, all these new transportation dollars looking for a place to be spent, are not FREE money. They are money the State of Virginia just BORROWED, and for which you, as a Virginia taxpayer, will eventually need to repay. Why should the residents of Albemarle County and Charlottesville support an outdated, ineffective road that will decrease our quality of life in our local region?

Amigo1 says:
"Picture four to eight lanes going through the countryside from Ruckersville through Earlysville, Free Union, and Ivy, down to North Garden. Thats what an actual bypass would need to look like. Think about that, and weep."

Weep?!? I'd cheer it! Something needs to be done, I think that this is an awesome start!

Oh yes ParkPlace, as a City resident I would love to have a bypass, around all the COunty crap development. After all, they want me to pay to build a dam for them, and give up my parks for them so they can drive easily, I think they should give up their land for my convenience. Why should I waste gas driving trough their stoplights? In fact, I think there should be an Eastern and a Western bypass, so I can go out the south side of town, and cut through to just north of Airport Rd. And the county can pay for it. The city can just pay for its little tidbit. It would be far more convenient for me, and help 'business' in the county immensely.

One good turn deserves another.

This bypass concept is only alive through inertia from stale, mid-20th century ideals. There was a time when major roadway capacity improvements helped the flow of goods and services enough to justify their expense. In fact, that's when Charlottesville built its first US 29 bypass, and it made sense. But the highwaymen are dogmatic, and the trucking industry has grown fond of their government subsidies, so we're told, even in 2011, that we have no choice but to spend and pave perpetually until ... who knows?

But if any of the following scenarios play out in the next several decades - or a combination of each scenario - then we'll be stuck with a $270 million-dollar bond and maintenance obligations for a roadway few people want.

1. Freight and passenger rail improvements along the 29 corridor are made, maybe high-speed or maybe conventional, and a sizable amount of through-traffic is diverted from US 29. The Lynchburg-Washington passenger line has already become very popular with minimal investment, and expansion down to Danville, along with more scheduling options, leads to significant ridership gains.

2. Oil prices go up, and some drive-alone commuters shift to carpooling, transit, bicycling, or walking as alternatives. The higher price point also compels a shift in land use decisions that reduce the need for driving and make these alternatives feasible. Traffic is relieved. Even the most optimistic oil analysts do not expect it to remain as cheap as it now is.

3. Driverless car technology is perfected and put into public use. The head of the Google department that is developing a prototype has predicted that widespread adoption of this technology could cut the number of vehicles on roadways by half, because of their more efficient use of existing space and ability to function as taxis. This is not science fiction, but being tested right now.

4. The expected federal gas tax revenue that the money for this roadway is borrowed from never materializes. Every transportation policy wonk knows that the gas tax system is broken, and it's unclear whether our lawmakers will be able to agree on a viable alternative. We don't know who will get stuck with the tab for this once someone gets around to paying for it.

Remember: this road must be needed for decades to be worth the price. We have to imagine the future. An automobile-dominated transportation system may be familiar to us, but it's utility is not built into the foundation of the universe. It was the product a particular era of history, as a result of particular legislative actions.

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about....we spend millions of $$ and oodles of time looking at stuff....Lets start building and making jobs!

Then when everything is all said and done, we'll have a scenic new road to drive on PLUS the possibility of more businesses growing along those same new roads providing MORE business opportunities and Jobs for all...

Andrew

Hmmmm....interesting point Caroline BUT I don't live on a scenic view that provides a short cut to some place worthwhile ;-)

On the flip side, some people are compensated quite well for the land....Matter of fact my Dad got some $$ from letting a power line across his property....and he was happy with the $$!

While I realize, that not all people want to give up land etc for whatever reason ... sometimes we have to do things for the overall good....NOW if only politics worked that way we'd all be in better shape.