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NEWS- First interview: Hero in 2002 shooting dislikes gun bans

published May 3, 2007


The Appalachian School of Law, set in tiny, scenic Grundy, was the scene of a mass shooting in 2002.
PHOTO FROM THE ASL WEBSITE

Mikael Gross has thought a lot about that terrible day at Virginia Tech. After all, he was involved in a similar incident at a Virginia college, a shooting where three people were killed.

The difference? Gross and another student drew their guns, and students subdued the gunman.

Gross says that in the days since the April 16 massacre, he has thought back to what happened to him five years ago, but until now he has turned down all requests for interviews.

He stipulates one ground rule in his first post-Tech interview to answer the key question posed by Randy Salzman's essay in this issue [see page 95]: "I have no problem talking about gun control as long as we don't pontificate on what could have happened at Virginia Tech."

Gross was a 34-year-old law student at Appalachian School of Law in Grundy on January 16, 2002, when suspended student Peter Odighizuwa went berzerk and fatally shot Dean Anthony Sutin, Professor Thomas Blackwell, and student Angela Denise Dales, and wounded three others.

Gross and Tracy Bridges were both police officers as well as students, and when they heard shots, unbeknownst to each other, they ran to their cars and retrieved their guns. A third student, Ted Besen, a former cop, helped subdue Odighizuwa with student Todd Ross.

"I was returning from lunch," says Gross, now legislative counsel for the North Carolina General Assembly.

"Initially," says Gross, "it was just a shock." He heard one of the first shots that killed Sutin. "Even when you have years of law enforcement experience, you never expect that-- 10 minutes after walking back from having a piece of pizza."

Gross says he donned his bulletproof vest when he went to his car to get his firearm. "I'm sure Tracy [Bridges] or I could have shot or killed Peter Odighizuwa," says Gross, "but he had already put his weapon down." 

Not that Gross was entirely sure the killer was disarmed. "It's a mining town," Gross explains. "I didn't know if he had explosives."

Odighizuwa is now serving six life sentences. Bridges could not be reached by press time, and Besen did not return a reporter's call.

Gross insists that the shootings at Appalachian School of Law were very different from what happened at Virginia Tech. For starters, Appalachian is a much smaller school-- 300 versus 30,000-- and has fewer places for a killer to hide. And the tiny law school did not have a campus police force.

More importantly, says Gross, three of the four students who intervened were current or former law enforcement officers who had been trained in the use of their weapons.

"Citizens who have intervened in armed robberies, rapes, etc. have saved lives and property," says Gross. "These incidents are not well noted by the media."

On the other hand, Gross is the former chief of police at Brevard College in North Carolina, and he says keeping weapons off campus "makes perfect sense"-- with exceptions: Off-duty cops and people with proper concealed weapons permits. 

People carrying concealed weapons should have some sort of safety training, he says, and know how to clean, load, and aim their firearm, and understand the laws of use of deadly force-- "common sense" stuff.

He's not a supporter of cities with strict gun control like New York City or Washington, DC. Nor does he think gun-free zones work.

Virginia Tech "was a gun-free zone," he says. "I don't think the shooter had a lot of remorse for having a gun. I don't think he thought, 'I'm going to get in trouble.'"

He points out that both Odighizuwa and Seung-Hui Cho had "lawfully obtained" their guns weeks before their killing sprees, and they were depressed or mentally ill. 

Governor Tim Kaine signed an executive order April 30 closing the state loophole that allowed Cho to buy guns despite having been judged mentally ill and a danger to himself.  

Gross says he's not a member of the NRA-- nor the ACLU. "I'm not radical right, as people think," he says, "but I'm not for taking guns away."

When he heard about the Tech massacre, Gross says, he was "extremely shocked" by the death toll and by the fact that Cho was able to go from room to room because gunshots can sound like innocuous pops, and few realized they should barricade the doors.

 "I know what gunfire sounds like," says Gross. "A lot of people don't, and by the time they recognize it, it's on them."

He calls the victims heroes: "Some of those victims died protecting other people."

Gross warns that it will take years and years for those who were in a classroom, who lost family members, or who were left for dead and managed to survive to get over that day.

"There is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent this type of attack when people have made up their mind to do it," says Gross. "This isn't a massacre-- it's domestic terrorism."

#

                     

American Values: Individual Rights

After September 11, 2001, Americans face a dangerous crossroad. Will we realize, once again, the reason this country has become the longest lived, most stable government form in the world today and has grown to become the greatest power on earth -- respect for the individual, as opposed to control by and for the collective -- or will the tragic events drive us to restrict and weaken the foundation of our freedom by willingly accepting inroads against the individual's rights in the guise of greater security? It is tempting to feel that we are lashing out at evil when we impose more restrictions on ourselves in the name of a national emergency. But it is important to consider which restrictions actually undermine our own ability to function as a free nation, and which are truely necessary to prevent those who hate accomplishment and freedom, and are jealous of all that respect for the individual allows, from striking again. If the constitutional guarantees against unreasonable search and seizure, for freedom of speech, for the right to keep and bear arms, are weakened or removed, then we have done the work ourselves that the evil-minded try to accomplish with acts of terrorism. If our economic greatness comes from capitalism, and capitalism is the economic extension of individual freedom to try, to fail or to succeed on one's own merits or the merits of one's thinking, with as little intervention from government as possible, then anything which diminishes the ability of individuals to attempt to achieve their dreams (as eloquently stated in the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness") is a strike at the heart of our national essence. While we can and should be motivated, as a basic moral concept, to seek out and destroy those who have dealt a deadly blow against American lives and property, at the same time we need to be acutely aware that the philosophy we hold is under attack not only by crude strikes at its physical symbols, but also by more insidious attacks against the premises upon which it is built. The collective is nothing more or less than a group of individuals, and has no greater or lesser rights than the individuals which comprise it. Statism...the belief that certain anointed individuals, working beneath the aegis of a religion or political or social precept, know what is better for the individual than the individuals collectively can decide for themselves, is the antithesis of the American way. Yet, we see constant subtle and not so subtle reminders from certain politicians and certain parts of the press and communications media and most of academia, suggesting that some form of statism is superior to the chaotic functioning of our limited democracy and the capitalistic economic system that our freedom makes possible and encourages. Is it not obvious from recent history that a society run by the iron fist of socialism, communism, or any other form of statism, will by its very nature deteriorate into a dictatorship, stagnate the progress that freedom allows, and eventually devolve into its own quagmire of fear? Why is it that some of us feel there is more security in giving our freedoms away to a central government, when in the long run it has been amply demonstrated that this path leads to nearly total subjugation and complete insecurity in one's own right to life, liberty, or the possibility of pursuit of happiness? Can it be that the same jealousy of accomplishment infects the minds of those who have, for whatever reason, failed to achieve as much as they might wish under this freedom we enjoy, a freedom that allows for both failure and success on one's merits? Can it be that those who yearn for more government control, more statism, feel that perhaps under those conditions, they might become powerful and if not respected, at least feared? Can jealousy of the fruits of success under capitalism be at the heart of the sophism that points to the failed statist governments and holds them up as some kind of model...to the greatest nation on the face of the earth? If one pages through most contemporary social science texts, the treatment of capitalism and by inference, the individual freedoms that makes it possible, is perverted, brief, and negative. Hardly any serious discussion of its merits is ever seen, but instead, college students are subjected to sneers about the lack of control and harangues about its harshness. This, of course, comes from academic sources: professors who in most cases have never been outside of the educational system, except for perhaps brief forays into menial work during pre-graduate years. Certainly there are a few seasoned business veterans teaching history, economics, and social sciences, but far too few. Most education about capitalism is presented in the same tones and terms as it might be by the terrorists who hate our way of life. As long as colleges turn out more college professors who survive in a microcosm of statism, repeating outmoded concepts from the 1920's (when Marxism was the philosophical darling of academia and capitalism was equated with thugs smashing the heads of striking workers), then we can expect liberal arts students to marinate in the juices of jealousy, constantly poured over them by people who have never known success in the capitalist system, and which they naturally find alien. Is it any wonder that journalists and actors more often than not are saturated with the flavor of statism by the time they are old enough to graduate into the world and begin to display what they have been taught? At this important crossroad, it is important to stop and consider what is being said on the news and in the schools, what is going to be said in movies and plays, and who is saying it...and why. Do we really want to turn more of our freedoms away in a doomed attempt to gain more security? Certainly we don't mind being more heavily inspected at the airport. Perhaps even more benefit may come from tighter restrictions at our borders. But it is not we, the freedom-loving American citizens, who pose the threat: it is those who hate our way of life, both within, and without, the borders of this country. Does it make more sense to take away all our forks and pocket knives, or to give our pilots training and weapons to defend themselves against the very few who would pose any threat? Would it not be better to see proper safety training and armed citizens everywhere, rather than taking away any opportunity to become proficient and to learn the austere responsibilities of being armed? The right to bear arms, like any grave and important right, carries with it an awesome responsibility. So long as there is reasonable assurance that the responsibility will be assumed, the right is, itself, the ultimate protection. Fear of the unknown can invoke inappropriate responses against those who might be the best protection. Demanding and extracting justice, even at the cost of war, is not the same as imposing draconian restrictions on our own freedoms. We can recover from the former, but the latter leads to the destruction of the thing we wish to preserve.

posted by RS at 5/3/2007 11:10:40 PM

Isn't Tim Kaine the guy who said he "had nothing but loathing" for folks who would use the tragedy at Va Tech for political purposes? Answer: Yes, that's why he's signing an unconstitutional gun ban, citing the recent tragedy at Va Tech as reason for it. Tim Kaine is a revolting creature, I have nothing but loathing for anyone who wants to disarm Americans, particularly law-abiding Americans.

posted by Anonymous at 5/4/2007 10:33:22 AM

Correction: It's not technically a gun-ban that Kaine is signing, it's a "right-of-the-people-to-keep-and-bear-arms-shall-not-be-infringed-ban". No better than a gun ban.

posted by Anonymous at 5/4/2007 10:34:45 AM

"Will we realize, once again, the reason this country has become the longest lived, most stable government form in the world today ..."

The united states is far from the longest lived and most stable government in the world. "Switzerland" ring a bell?

posted by Mark at 5/4/2007 12:26:55 PM

Drug-resistant TB is spreading across America, thanks in large part to the influx of illegal aliens into this country. So is leprosy. So is hepatitis.

posted by Me at 5/5/2007 5:48:58 PM

Thanks for your information.

posted by Mohsen Baghery at 5/6/2007 6:28:34 AM

"I know what gunfire sounds like," says Gross. "A lot of people don't, and by the time they recognize it, it's on them."

Isn't that the problem? The sheeple are raised in fantasyland away from the realities of the world. Television is the only exposure to reality they get and they think "It can't happen to me."

The legislators and educaters and parents who raised those young people to 'not know what gunfire sounds like,' and to never have learned how to use a weapon to defend themselves or their property or those they care about have blood on their hands. The "Liberal" infested 'educational' system has blood on its hands. The mainstream newsmedia, so despicable there are not words suitable to describe it, has blood on its hands.

And still they keep lying... When will enough stop tolerating them?????

posted by Barry Bright at 5/8/2007 11:09:23 AM

For more on this:

http://www.willowtown.com/reality/blacksburg.htm

posted by Barry Bright at 5/8/2007 11:10:21 AM

It sounds like Barry has been listening to a bit to much "fantasyland" media outlets.

posted by NotOnThisPage at 5/9/2007 3:24:44 PM
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