Convicted Huguely: What's next for 'Georgie'?
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Huguely enters court during his trial.file photo by hawes spencer -
Huguely has been kept here in segregation since his May 3, 2010 arrest.file photo by hawes spencer
The most vivid emotion after the 26 years meted out for the murder of almost-graduated UVA student Yeardley Love came from a little girl. Seemingly a cousin to the just-convicted George W. Huguely V, she rushed out the front door of the Charlottesville Circuit Courthouse sobbing out, "That's too much."
But is it? A few notches above the 22.5-year midpoint, it's well within the allowable second-degree murder range of 5 to 40 years. Barring any reduction by Judge Edward Hogshire, the state's insistence that prisoners serve at least 85 percent of their sentences means the now 24-year-old Huguely, credited for time served, is on track to remain behind bars until June 2032– about three months before his 45th birthday.
“We wanted to put on enough years so that when he came out and had access to alcohol he would be more mature,” said juror Ian Glomski, telling the Washington Post that the panel was swayed by the experience of one member who'd worked professionally with alcoholics.
"I was impressed by how fair the jury was," says Hook legal analyst David Heilberg, praising both the second-degree verdict as well the term recommended by the seven men and five women.
"You can see the logic of the decision," continues Heilberg, noting acquittals on various secondary charges such as burglary and appreciating that just a single year came from the grand larceny conviction (for stealing the victim's computer). "I would be surprised if the judge would tamper with that sentence."
However, defense attorney Fran Lawrence will surely try.
"We look forward to some corrections in what happened here tonight," Lawrence told the reporters in the pouring rain of the evening of Wednesday, February 22 as he noted that his client was remorseful as well as "hopeful" and "spiritual."
However, as the jury noted, he was also malicious.
"It was clear that we all felt the malice was demonstrated primarily through his actions: taking physical action on another person," juror Glomski said in another interview, this one with the Charlottesville Newsplex.
One shocker emerging from the juror interviews appeared in a Slate story (by C'ville journo vet Cathy Harding) in which the jury foreperson reveals that the members had to overcome the view that Huguely was merely acting in the heat of passion– and therefore deserving just a manslaughter conviction– when he kicked down the victim's bedroom door to kill her with his bare hands.
"We decided," says foreperson Serena Gruia, "that a reasonable person of reasonable mind hears ‘Go away,’ and they do not kick down the door."
While Heilberg downplays the likelihood of reversal, a lawyer with experience defending a UVA student/killer contends that the judge's decision to exclude medical testimony (after learning of improper contact initiated by the defense) could open a door to appeal.
"I think it was prejudicial to the defendant that medical experts couldn't testify or testimony was curtailed for whatever reason," says John Zwerling, an Alexandria-based attorney who in 2004 famously convinced a Charlottesville jury to give his client, Andrew Alston, just three years for the year-earlier multiple-stabbing death of an unarmed man.
Juror Glomski, however, has indicated that medical evidence might have made little impact because Huguely set "the chain of events" leading to Love's death, as he told the Daily Progress.
As for Huguely, he may get another chance for what was so controversially missing from his February 22 sentencing hearing: mitigation statements from himself and/or loved ones. After an April hearing sets the sentencing date ("late summer," says his secretary), Judge Hogshire may allow such statements. And lawyer Zwerling, although surely aware that Lawrence found an aunt who repeatedly testified about Huguely as "Georgie," thinks the defense would be wise to provide some mitigation.
"The jury only had one picture of Huguely– a drunken, mean, stupid athlete," says Zwerling, contrasting that with the sentencing he orchestrated for Alston, whose crime ironically occurred about a block away from the 14th Street apartment complex where Huguely killed Love.
"We put on a lot of mitigation with Andrew; there was a lot going on in his life," says Zwerling, noting that Alston's brother had committed suicide and that the victim, on the night of the crime, might have appeared to be threatening the killer's other brother.
While Huguely's legal team may have foreclosed its ability to challenge the verdict by not registering a formal objection to the limitations on its medical witnesses, Zwerling says that Huguely might be able to claim "ineffective assistance of counsel" in a habeas corpus petition.
One stone left unturned right here in trial city is the research of UVA-based addiction expert Bankole Johnson who seem unimpressed with the notion of jail as therapy.
"It is nonsensical," says Johnson, "to state that a person grows out of alcoholism. Although there is a spontaneous remission rate for alcoholism, most individuals who drink severely require appropriate treatment to get better."
For Johnson, appropriate treatment often includes medications, therapies for which this neuropsychiatric researcher has won international acclaim.
"If the jury wished for an opinion regarding the impact of alcoholism with respect to mitigation, they should have been provided with expert testimony to that effect," says Johnson. "Justice demands it."
After Judge Hogshire finalizes a sentence, Huguely– now confined to the segregation unit of the Albemarle-Charlottesville Regional Jail since killing Love on May 3, 2010– moves to a different world: a Virginia prison.
"He's probably going to come into one of our intake and classification centers," says Department of Corrections spokesperson Larry Traylor. "We will look at everything: his past history, his physical health, his mental health, his sentencing, his education level, and does he have any therapeutic needs. And then we will assign him to a facility that matches his security level and his needs."
Virginia operates over 40 prisons spanning six escalating levels and culminating in the special supermax segregation unit known as "Red Onion," the long-term home of Lee Boyd Malvo, the apprentice sniper whose 2001 reign of terror left a body count of 10 and led his mentor to the death penalty.
"Because of the notoriety, we might look at some sort of protective custody," says Traylor, adding that each Virginia prison contains its own segregation unit.
Will Huguely get the benefit of proximity to his family members, most of whom appear to live in the greater Washington D.C. area?
"We will certainly listen, but families don't have a say," says Traylor, "We have to determine where the best place is, and it could be a distance from the family."
For Huguely, however, distance from sex and alcohol could prove equally arduous. During trial, multiple witnesses described Huguely's final day of beer-soaked freedom with George W. Huguely IV as well as his frantic efforts to hook up with as many as four women.
In 2032, Huguely would be old enough to be sending a child– a potential George VI– off to college. However, Virginia prison rules currently allow neither alcohol nor conjugal visits.
106 comments
Speculating about a George VI is irrelevant. Assuming that Judge Hogshire concurs with the jury, he'll be out in his mid-forties. He wouldn't be the first person to wait until then to start a family.
I don't think that prison is likely to rehabilitate him - the system is primarily punitive, not correctional - and I doubt that it will be easy for him, even if he is put into segregation.
I hope that the time in prison will cause George to recognize that he made a series of very poor decisions that not only ended Yeardley Love's life, but resulted in years of lost opportunity for himself. I hope that when he is released from prison, he dedicates the rest of his life to teaching the lessons he's learned the hard way. His best chance at redemption, in my opinion, is to letting his life speak as a cautionary tale, and advocating against alcoholism and domestic violence.
Judging from his weight loss in prison, he is not getting the calories from his past normal beer drinking and is not overly fond of prison food.
Now that the trial is over, I must say that I feel very sorry for him. I believe that he must be incarcerated for killing Yeardley, yet it is sad to see his photo and know that a potentially great life was wasted. He has learned the hard way that life actions have consequences. I agree with Jessica's last sentence - well put.
I also hope that President Sullivan pulls her coaches, staff, and cops into her office and reads them the riot act. As far as I am concerned, they enabled him to make poor choices and they are as culpable as he. From this day forward, whenever any student feels threatened, the school must respond and investigate. Otherwise history will repeat itself.
For better or worse George will leave prison a very different person than when he went in. But I have to agree with Jessica. He deserves every bit of his sentence but the idea of "rehabilitation" is a joke. No matter how tough he might have been on the lacrosse field he's about to enter into the unimaginable. I grew up in a privileged setting as well and I can say with certainty that there isn't a preppy frat kid alive who can fathom 20+ years in the pen. There gonna need to keep him under 24 hour suicide watch for a long time.
Ben- I agree.
The only shocker in the paragraph promising such is that it was written by an editor. Couldn't this article have waited another 15 minutes while someone proofread it?
On another editorial point, the sentence noting Huguely's distance from sex and alcohol would be much more likely to generate the usual back and forth about prison rape, etc. if it were located closer to the top of the article.
The Hook's comment sections have demonstrated time and time again that most readers never actually notice much beyond the headline and the opening paragraph. Since the only reason for posting an article like this would be to generate ad revenue, putting the red meat where most readers will miss it is clearly a strategic mistake.
Stronger- I don't understand your comments. Your first sentence doesn't make sense to me. "Such" is referring to what?
Why would the "distance from sex..." part need to come at the top of the article when the author was starting chronologically in this case about what went on in the courtroom during sentencing?... then naturally segued into what chronologically might happen next, i.e. appeals, judge's final say, then naturally moving on to life for GH5 after all that...
Article works fine for me.
Wow-- you maybe should start your own paper since you have such crisp ideas of how each story should read!
Janis, as of 12:36 the article above still reads-
"One shocker emerging from the juror interviews appeared in a Slate story (by C'ville journo vet Cathy Harding) in which the jury foreperson reveals that the members had to overcame the view that Huguely was merely acting in the heat of passion– and therefore deserving just a manslaughter conviction– when he kicked down the victim's bedroom door to kill her with his bare hands."
That paragraph suggests to me that something shocking will be revealed, and yet it reveals nothing shocking. It is pretty common for jury members to discuss their opinions on the testimony and evidence they've heard and to continue to do so until they arrive at consensus. Some apparently thought that finding Huguely guilty of manslaughter was appropriate and some apparently felt that second degree murder was more appropriate. That in my view could only be shocking to someone who is completely unfamiliar with the processes of a jury trial.
As for the rest of what you wrote, it shows that you failed to read the rest of my comment which noted a tendency of many people to comment on what they haven't read.
Hawes may be more clever than I originally thought, since I'm sure that many of the people drawn to the true crime genre of "reporting" spend much of the rest of their reading time skipping through trashy novels to the sex scenes at the end of the chapters.
I dont know which was worse, this crime or the murder of Eve Carson at UNC-CH.
Its ironic Georgie had every thing going for him, unlike the 2 street thugs who murdered Eve. Rip Ms Love & Carson.
Prison is not a place to rehabilitate an alcoholic. A dry alcoholic is still an alcoholic. While it is true that GHV will not have access to alcohol in prison, he will still be an alcoholic. Alcoholism has both nature and nuture roots. Excessive drinking seems to run in the family, so he may have both bad genes and bad example from GHIV.
If I were President Sullivan, I'd convene a high level panel to review all the issues that surround this case. An intervention by student affairs, the athletic department, the lacrosse coach could have prevented this sad event. If the University does its usual duck and cover, it may take some pressure from elected officials to bring about a proper inquiry.UVA is a state institution and needs to change the culture that created this disaster in the first place.
Given "Georgie's" inexperience with prison life, I suspect that--in the words of those 1960s crooners The Seekers--"Hey there, Georgy girl..."
R.I.P.: Steamin' Steve Clark
I agree with some of the criticism of this article in the comments above --
What is "shocking" about some juror's starting from the premise the conduct amounted to manslaughter? ALL the lawyers commenting on this case predicted they jury would reject Murder 1 and Felony Murder and have to decide between manslaughter and Murder 2. That is because that is what the law in Virginia virtually mandates under the facts here. Unfortunately, too many of the news media, including The Hook, mislead their readers/viewers about the likelihood of a Murder 1 conviction.
Hawes, your attempts to be cute regarding this tragedy again fall flat in this story. You know full well Virginia's infamous "Red Onion Prision" is irrelevant to any discussion of Huguely's initial placement within Virginia's prison system because there is NO CHANCE he will be placed there. So why throw that in, if you are trying to report news/facts? Especially when you provide no information on where he is, in fact, likely to be placed.
Likewise, your comments about sex and alcohol are tasteless. Huguely has been imprisoned for almost two years now, and there is absolutely no evidence he has had access to either in that time. Just what is the "news value" of your snide comments?
marko -- it would be inappropriate to compare and try to determine the relative "loss" of each of these young women. Both deaths were tragic. What I find astounding, though, is the relative lack of publicity regarding Ms. Carson being gunned down in the middle of the road and the subsequent trial of one of the perpetrators in that case (even in Chapel Hill) compared to the local and national media firestorm focussed on the death of Ms. Love and the trial of Mr. Huguely. I do find that warped. But as "stronger than darn" suggested, the Love death sold newspapers or brought in TV viewers, so it is not just the media to blame here, but also the viewing/reading public.
MITIGATING FACTORS? seriously
how about that he tried to kill a policewoman screaming ill kill you ill kill you all!
how about that he wasnt drunk after all - he sent comprehensive emails after butchering yeardley then threw a bedspread over her body
how about the drunk frat boy thing has been played up a bit too much by the media
how about the fact that he is SOCIOPATH like lyle MENENDEZ
how about hsi own fater tried to run over JOGGERS who tried to stop his DUI DRIVE
all these defense lawyers are too much
WHY DOES GEORGE DESERVE PROTECTIVE CUSTODY ? becasue he is white and rich
THE KILLER S OF eve carson a far far more notorious case didnt GET PROTECTIVE Custody
HUGUELY was not covered as much outside the DC area -
EVE CARSONS Case was but her killers were black
LET HIM ROT IN JAIL
FEEL SORRY FOR GEORGE ?
HE IS A KILLER
HE SNUFFED OUT THE LIFE OF A YOUNG GIRL
AND DOESNT THINK HE DID ANYTHING WRONG
that kid screaming 26 years is too much was TOO MUCH AND STAGED
what 9 yr old knows what 26 yrs is? THE HUGUELYS ALL OF THEM do not beleive they need to be resposnilbe for their actions
THIS ARTICLE MAKES me want to VOMIT
MISPLACED Compassion
did yeardley get protective custody from this animal
it is absolutely racist to say that george whoudl have protective custody when defendants form far more notorious cases do not receive protective custody
LET GEORGEY BE NEAR HIS PARENTS ??? why? have they done such a good job so far? i say if you want him to be rehabilitated get him the heck away from these 2 wolves!
that aunt Alina was a total enabler as well
how did you think it felt for lexie and sharon love to hear the killer that bashed their daughters skull thru to be caLled GEOrGEY
THE HUGUELYS TAKE NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY AND DONT CARE ABOUT ANYONES FEELINGS EXCEPT THEIR OWN
AND BRINGING CHILDREN TO COURT ????????????
THEY HAD BABIES AND 2 3YRS OLD IN THE FIRST ROW TO INFLUENCE THE JURY
DONT FEEL SORRY FOR GEORGEY
FEEL SORRY FOR YEARDLEY AND SHARON AND LEXIE WHO KNOW THEIR DAUGHTERS LAST REMAINING BREATHS ON THIS EARTH WERE A LIVING HELL
YM -- don't know your connection to Ms. Love or her family, but please get help. Your angry rants here are filled with half truths and downright falsehoods.
Sounds like you need professional help to work through your loss -- if you don't get it you may be needing one of those defense lawyers you have so much disdain for.
George wasnt that drunk. the jury had access to emails he write after punhcing Yeardleys brains in. there are plenty of men and woman at UVA and elsewhere who get drunk and do do not try to kill a policewoman, do not bash their sleeping teammates ear in and blacken his eye, attempt on several occassions to choke their girlfriend. George lives by the phrase if at first you dont succeed try try again. ---keep choking yeardley til he finally killed her
For all those who feel sorry for him ask thsi question of yourself - WHY? he doenst deserve your compassion.
George huguely the fifth has no compassion for you or anyone else. Stand next to him and you would see the coldness in his eyes .
Tto an observer YM is expressing much of the anger that we all feel
I think you may be the one who needs professional helpas you seem to want to defend a murderer
BTW
a ot of lacrossers believe that george ruined their reputations. You are clearly related to the Huguelys as only the huguelys are defending George.
like ym and others here at UVA, I hope George rots in jail
caroline and yeardley murdered-- While this was an epic tragedy, you're posts reveal an anger comparable with Huguely's drunken rage...
George
I thought they took your computer away!
Wow - It is incredible that Observer and duke of Wellington are against a person feeling anger towards a man who bashed his girlfriends head in and actually say that anger equals georges drunken rage.
No as women we are allowed to feel anger towards a man who bashes his girlfriens head in becasue she wants to break up with him. I guess Duke and Observer are women bashers too defending all men bashers
I confess - I AM GEORGE
I HATE WOMEN
let george go
Impersonating nobility is grounds for treason, sir! You shall be flogged in front of the regiment and denied your gin rations for a month!
My colleague, the real Duke of Wellington is equally appalled at George's behaviour and does not condone it. Just go easy on the capitals...
Ok, so how do we all feel about the Ohio shootings?
there's a difference between feeling sorry for George and feeling sorry that his violent behavior destroyed multiple lives, including friends, family and his own. Compassion is a great quality to have, even if the recipient doesn't 'deserve' it. Whether or not Huguely has compassion for others is not the point. He clearly didn't have it in the moments when it would have counted most, which is why he got second degree murder instead of manslaughter. We don't have to sink to his level by being equally compassionless.
What he did was a terrible thing. Did he get off light with a non-life sentence? Possibly, but as long as there are shades of grey to be considered when someone kills someone else, we have to live with the consequences of that.
He will get a chance to try to pick up the pieces of his life when he's served his time, so I can understand the frustration and anger people feel about that as well, but life never was fair. Nothing will ever undo what has been done. At this point, we'd be best served with questions like:
How do we learn from this?
How do we stop things like this from happening again?
How can we provide support to survivors of this murder and others?
How can we honor the memory of Yeardley Love?
I don't see how it honors Yeardley or accomplishes anything positive to put so much energy into anger at George. What's done is done. We can request that the judge honors the sentence handed down by the jury, and that it is upheld in appeals. He will or won't be rehabilitated in prison. He will or won't be put in a protective unit. That's really not something we can influence. Frankly, knowing that he is going to be out in society again in 20ish years makes me hope that he uses his time in prison to get therapy, deal with his addiction and anger management issues, and accept responsibility for his actions.
Our power lies in education about and prevention of domestic violence and alcohol/substance abuse and offering support to survivors.
^
Not a self-hating woman (lest Girl Observer and her friends think otherwise).
Is it okay to have angry feelings at what happened? Sure. However, at some point, the only thing that rage consumes is you. Better to channel that energy into something positive.
@Lord Nelson - Ohio shootings, Eve Carson, all murder is tragic.
Part of the problem is that nobody saw anything, or heard anything, or maybe only saw a fraction of his deviant behavior. Or were these young people possibly just looking the other way? Maybe they simply wanted to protect the name and image of the University of Virginia and its esteemed lacrosse teams? But another possibility is that they were afraid of a bully who would intimidate a bully who was 6'2" and weighed 209 pounds? A creep who would use violence, especially when he was drinking, which was frequently.
Nobody reported Huguely to the campus police. He existed inside his own protective bubble (or shield) and forged his own private 'Reign of terror'. I'm anxious to see these harassing emails and text messages he was sending to Yeardley, if and when they are made public. She must have kept these dark secrets to herself, but surely others were aware of this stalking and harassment? How could they have not known?
List the known infractions for yourself: 1. the incident with Officer Rebecca Moss, which resulted in a conviction for public intoxication and resisting arrest, was most egregious. Assault felony charges should have been obtained. 2. A reckless driving charge from September 2007. 3. Possession of alcohol as a minor in November 2007. 4. An altercation on a yacht with his dad in 2008-little is known about this incident?
(Continue with infraction check list) 5. Hayley Peterson with the Washington Examiner uncovered a new one, Huguely attacked a teammate in his own bed and beat his face to a bloody pulp. This was not reported, and obviously comprises several felonies (breaking and entering and physical assault). 6. Huguely had apparently assaulted Yeardley two months prior to the murder. This caused the breakup and George was certainly in a blackout state for this one too, he had no memory of it. There may be others that will emerge in the coming days. These crimes were so carefully covered up!
In stark contrast to Huguely, Yeardley Love was a good person, a rallying spirit for her lacrosse team and a great student of government also. It's unfortunate that she crossed paths with this criminal misfit. Perhaps, once she saw who he really was, she thought it best to break it off with him. But because of the social intermingling of the UVA Men's and Women's lacrosse teams, she was still coming in contact with this rapidly maturing sociopath. Love saw him at the burger bar, Boylan Heights that very fatal night. Others must have sensed the ensuing catastrophe, but did nothing to stop it.
Yeardley Love dressed as an angel when she was a little girl. Why did such a lovely girl as Yeardley have to meet up with a monster such as George Huguely anyway? "Only the Good Die Young," as the Billy Joel song goes. Why were others so silent?
Such is the way that tragedies unfold. Shakespeare chronicled human nature exquisitely 500 years ago. Not much has changed since then, except perhaps now we have the internet, laptops and smart phones. A sequence of vial circumstance adds up to conceivable intervention, but none ever occurred. The final and ultimate crime of murder occurred within the context of 'implied social protection' for a disgusting serial criminal disguised as a pristine pampered elite athlete. Nothing will change.
Part of the problem is that nobody saw anything, or heard anything, or maybe only saw a fraction of his deviant behavior. Or were these young people possibly just looking the other way? Maybe they simply wanted to protect the name and image of the University of Virginia and its esteemed lacrosse teams? But another possibility is that they were afraid of a bully who would intimidate a bully who was 6'2" and weighed 209 pounds? A creep who would use violence, especially when he was drinking, which was frequently.
Nobody reported Huguely to the campus police. He existed inside his own protective bubble (or shield) and forged his own private 'Reign of terror'. I'm anxious to see these harassing emails and text messages he was sending to Yeardley, if and when they are made public. She must have kept these dark secrets to herself, but surely others were aware of this stalking and harassment? How could they have not known?
List the known infractions for yourself: 1. the incident with Officer Rebecca Moss, which resulted in a conviction for public intoxication and resisting arrest, was most egregious. Assault felony charges should have been obtained. 2. A reckless driving charge from September 2007. 3. Possession of alcohol as a minor in November 2007. 4. An altercation on a yacht with his dad in 2008-little is known about this incident?
(Continue with infraction check list) 5. Hayley Peterson with the Washington Examiner uncovered a new one, Huguely attacked a teammate in his own bed and beat his face to a bloody pulp. This was not reported, and obviously comprises several felonies (breaking and entering and physical assault). 6. Huguely had apparently assaulted Yeardley two months prior to the murder. This caused the breakup and George was certainly in a blackout state for this one too, he had no memory of it. There may be others that will emerge in the coming days. These crimes were so carefully covered up!
In stark contrast to Huguely, Yeardley Love was a good person, a rallying spirit for her lacrosse team and a great student of government also. It's unfortunate that she crossed paths with this criminal misfit. Perhaps, once she saw who he really was, she thought it best to break it off with him. But because of the social intermingling of the UVA Men's and Women's lacrosse teams, she was still coming in contact with this rapidly maturing sociopath. Love saw him at the burger bar, Boylan Heights that very fatal night. Others must have sensed the ensuing catastrophe, but did nothing to stop it.
Yeardley Love dressed as an angel when she was a little girl. Why did such a lovely girl as Yeardley have to meet up with a monster such as George Huguely anyway? "Only the Good Die Young," as the Billy Joel song goes. Why were others so silent?
The final and ultimate crime of murder occurred within the context of 'implied social protection' for a disgusting serial criminal disguised as a pristine pampered elite athlete. Nothing will change.
is YM and Caroline the same nut? They both like the cap's lock.
Sad news... I learned yesterday from a parent of one of YL's good friends that YL knew of the proposed intervention and asked her friends to wait a week or two until school was officially out so that he would not get kicked off the Lacrosse team.
She didn't like his drink-induced behavior, but she liked other things about him, enough to protect him.
Did George write emails from Yeardleys computer AFTER he stole the computer? Somehow I missed that pivotal piece of info.
No Ben... He sent texts with his own phone.
Georgie needs serious help and serious prison time. Maybe he'll get enough of both over the next 26 years. Maybe they should start with teaching him honor, respect, humility ... and how to see the signs that "she's just not that into you anymore" ... beginning with that moment when she says "go away" when you show up, and "get out" when you kick in her door. Glad to see this dirtbag off the streets, doomed to live with other dirtbags for the next 26 years. See ya, Georgie!!
He had a Blackberry, but in jail he switched to an iPhone. Seriously.
George Huguely was nothing more to me than a former HS All-American lax player who went to UVa and didn't perform on the field up to the expectations that got him to UVa in the first place -- before this tragedy.
As parent of a child the same age, as a UVa parent, as the parent of a former HS lacrosse player, as someone who knows many who intersected with the social circle most connected to this tragedy, and as a lawyer, I have followed this case very carefully, from the beginning. I have been troubled throughout this case by the poor factual reporting by many of the media and by the extremely poor explanations of the applicable law by most of the media. This poor reporting has fanned an already incendiary case -- as evidenced by many vituperative comments on the numerous message boards out there.
To those who were touched directly by Ms. Love's death, you have my deepest sympathies, and as someone who has experience with survivor guilt, I honestly urge you to seek help to work thorough your feelings, even now two years after the event. If you don't address them, they will certainly hamper your ability to face life head on in the future, and they may consume you.
George Huguley was convicted of murder. He will forever be deemed a murder. And for the next 20+ years of his life he will be imprisoned in places none of us can imagine or ever want to be. He was convicted in accordance with the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia. Under those laws there was almost no chance he would be convicted of Murder 1. It is not Murder 1 just because the prosecutor charges it. It is not Murder 1, just because the victim was your friend or loved one. It is not murder one just because the victim was a woman, was young and pretty, or a good student, or any other trait related to the victim. Nor is it Murder 1 because his actions tarnished the reputations of UVa, the UVa lacrosse teams, or lacrosse in general (and all three of those things are near and dear to my heart). There are very specific requirements for convicting one of Murder 1 (or Felony Murder 1) in Virginia, and the Commonwealth did not prove those requirements. That is not showing compassion for George Huguely; that is knowing the law, and hoping it is applied correctly.
To YM, caroline, LAXER, and others above -- I have no idea of your connection to this tragedy so I have no idea whether the comments that follow apply to you or not --
There has been a lot of commentary about the "culture" that gave rise to this tragedy, the categories of people who should have "stepped" up sooner, etc., etc. But, George Huguely is the one who made the very poor decision to go to Ms. Love'e apartment when he had been drinking all day -- knowing he had control issues when he was drunk, to kick in her door when she told him to leave, and to lay a hand on her once inside (what exactly transpired in there NONE of us know). And, George is the only one legally responsible for Ms. Love's death.
There is no mistaking, though, that there are dozens of people who wish they had done something sooner that may have broken up the chain of events that lead to Ms. Love's death. If you are one of those, any guilt you feel from that would not likely be assuaged by stiffer punishment for George, because no amount of punishment for him will bring Yeardley Love back. You may truly want to talk though any such feelings with a professional to help you best deal with them.
If, however, your ire is because you're a lacrosse player and you feel YOUR reputation has been tarnished due to "guilt by association," no about of time served by GH will mitigate that either -- instead, pledge to be a positive role model for the sport and work to debunk the media myth that all lacrosse players are rich and violent d-bag's who drink too much. Likewise, if your ire is because the tragedy and ensuing trial shed negative light on the UVa social scene -- work to put the scene in a more positive light rather than venting on message boards. And, if the light shed during the trial came even closer to home -- to your very social group -- I can imagine some serious embarrassment has ensued. Two years out, I hope you have grown to see that conduct is not healthy, even if it rarely leads to murder.
"There gonna need to keep him under 24 hour suicide watch for a long time."
Nah, why bother?
DUKE OF WELLINGTON - the one using all caps --
Some of your post is precisely the type of misinformation I mentioned. Your #5 is NOT new information. That incident was reported from the beginning of this case. And, importantly, cold-cocking a guy and blackening his eye, as bad as that is, is a far cry from "beat[ing] his face to a bloody pulp."
The facts here speak for themselves. Hyperbole only serves to confuse the issues and weaken your arguments.
Jessica - I appreciate your comments - most reasoned and well thought out.
Caroline wrote:
HE SNUFFED OUT THE LIFE OF A YOUNG GIRL
AND DOESNT THINK HE DID ANYTHING WRONG
that kid screaming 26 years is too much was TOO MUCH AND STAGED
what 9 yr old knows what 26 yrs is?
Caroline, please tell us how you know that (1) Huguely "doesn't think he did anything wrong" and (2) the child was instructed to get upset. Also, how old were you when you grasped how much 26 is? I think most people figure that out before turning nine.
Observer reminds me of a lax fan.
I really think the use of the name "Georgie" in the headline was unnecessary - it makes light of a very tragic situation and makes the writer sound juvenile.
This comment:
"In 2032, Huguely would be old enough to be sending a child– a potential George VI– off to college. However, Virginia prison rules currently allow neither alcohol nor conjugal visits"
Just added to the flippant attitude, and quoting a nine year old is just silly, no matter how dramatic it was at the time.
Observer, nice post, I appreciate your comments. Jessica's comment's are spot on too.
My prayers to Yeardley's family for their loss. I am so saddened by the loss of a smart, beautiful athlete with so much promise.
I also pray for George and his family.
As angry as I am at George for what he did, I feel compassion for him as a human being. Would any of us here actually choose to have Yeardley's death as their cross to bear? No effing way any of us would want that on our shoulders, he's got a lot to answer for. And an eye for an eye would make us NO BETTER than him.
I am a college graduate who gave up drinking after college. I often found myself sobering up not remembering much about what I had done the night before, and there are many things that I said and did that I NEVER would have done sober. While we never had a night that ended with Yeardley's terror, I know of multiple friends that have been physically abused by men who have been drinking, including myself. These women who didn't report this behavior are educated, smart women with loving families. None of us really saw these things as more than drunken and out-of-character behavior. And me? At the time, I was wasted, I wasn't going to report anything.
This isn't just a Lacrosse problem, or rich people's problem, or a university problem - it's our society's problem. We need to start teaching kids young that it is NEVER OK to hit. We need to teach young men about treating women with respect. We need to teach young women that he should NEVER hit you and that if he does to tell someone. We all need to be more educated about alcohol and drug abuse.
Hind sight is 20-20, and we need to examine the signs so we can recognize them in the future. Yes, George had a track record that clearly demonstrates that he had a propensity for drunken violence. I didn't hear any testimony that Yeardley's friends and family had told her to leave him. And Yeardley herself had not entirely cut off communication with him. We as a society have grown too tolerant of drunken, violent behavior. And we have gotten too tolerant of violence against women. We need to solve this with a carrot, not stick approach. That's a much bigger problem than one the UVa Lacrosse program can solve.
Dysfunctional families are becoming the norm in this country for a myriad of reasons. Personally, I blame it on capitalism and industrial revolution, regardless, the tragedy that took place here was scripted by parents who found it easier to sugar coat some very poor personal behavior on Georges part, he did have a record, and a wanting to be Georges friend rather than parents. Where and why did George develop his rage, his anger issues? that to me is the question. George was destined to act out at someone else's expense, how could it been averted?
Hope for Yeardley and Perspective - thanks for your comments. I appreciate posters that go beyond a superficial perspective and take a constructive approach to try to understand the problem and how it may be dealt with. I personally find little value in hateful rants.
@Janis: I'm interested to know what else you are hearing from the parents of one of YL's good friends.
@woodchuck: Just curios, how do you know this about the iPhone?
Get a clue - I think the statement by Woodchuck on switching from a Blackberry to an iphone is either heresay or a joke. One day I got curious about what prison life is like and read that they have a phone system for inmates to make calls by setting up an account. All calls are recorded and monitored and I guess there are special phones for that purpose, because Albemarle Country jail website says "Inmates are not permitted access to cell phones or to the jail's business telephones". I mean seriously, think about the security risk of a prisoner population having their own cellphones.
This snarky article, replete with snide asides and editorializing, illustrates the desperate measures to which so-called journalists try to remain relevant today.
As soon as the Hook detects which way the wind is blowing on a story, it sets sails in a favorable direction.
I see more balanced and fair reporting on provate blogs than the Hook.
Referencing Cathy Harding, another yellow-sheet scribbler who finally left C-ville, was just LOL funny.
Nice job, Hook. Amusing? No doubt. Credible journlism? No way.
Go ahead and delete, as you undoubtedly will. I won't be coming back to read your rag.
George had a choice. He could have chosen NOT to smash into her bedroom and attack her. But Yeardley didnt have the choice of not losing her life.
Zwerling is disgusting. At least this jury didn't buy the same arguments that were used in the Alston case.That was a miscarriage of justice that deserves to go down in history with the 6- month sentence of William Zanzinger(dcumented by Bob Dylan in The Lonsesome Death of Hattie Carroll), or even the acquittal of the murderers of Emmet Till.
Maybe the law should be changed, make it easier to get a first degree conviction. Certainly take away manslaughter as an option in any case where a deadly weapon was employed in an attack.
George destroyed his own life. He also destroyed another's- which is much worse.
Apparently it was very hard to recognize questionable behavior of troubled jocks or students with such prevasive culture of drinking and excess student behavior. My daughter attended a unc univ where a male student with a violent police record was allowed admission. He eventually murdered his girlfriend in her dorm room. Talk about universities ducking and covering! You send your kid to this idea of a great learning and life adventure but you soon notice its "darn" crazy out there too!
UGH! Enough already Hawes. Why are you feeding this frenzy? What's done is done. Let's move on.
Thank you zombie!
What great comments follow this insightful article. Especially interesting and insightful are the comments of Jessica and The Observer.
Although hindsight is 20-20....this surely could have been prevented if any number of people had reported George Huguely V for any number of examples of violent conduct.....
especially the incident in Waynesboro where he was tased by a female police officer after he made threatening comments to her or much more recently the UNC lacrosse player who caught George with Yearley in a neck hold....and I had forgotten about the incident accounted above where George beat up a male student and that also incredulously went unreported!
I have read very little about his friends and teamates on the UVA Lacross team. I live in Northern VA and my daughter graduated UVA in 2006. I know a recent grad who played Lacrosse there and he said George had a reputation as a goof-off and under-acheiver.
Therefore I really agree with the comments above that both the UVA Coaches and Players should be read the "riot act" about violence toward women and also violence in general fueled by alcohol.
Then there is the issue of 2nd Degree Murder or Voluntary Manslaughter. He didn't do anything to help her after he hurt Yeardley so greviously.
He kicked in her door after she told him to go away and then cowered from this monster in the corner of her room. He lied to the police. He took her laptop as collateral for her to call him back but he threw it in a garbage dumpster....... so the statement and his actions contradict each other.
I had initially guessed he would get 12-18 years. After reading all these great comments and most of al thinking that George should have done something immediately to help Yeardley....I now think the Jury got it very close to right.
"....and I had forgotten about the incident accounted above where George beat up a male student and that also incredulously went unreported!"
Could you explain then how you knew about the beating in the first place? That is before you forgot about it. I knew about that incident because it had been reported in this paper.
Is George (or anyone in the joint security complex) allowed to surf the Internet? Could his folks or anyone bring him special food... If he met some woman online could he get a conjugal visit (if he got married to her, or him)?
Virginia does not allow conjugal visits.
SAYWHA? To clarify, I meant went unreported to UVA and Police officials at the time it occurred. I did not mean unreported in the aftermath of 3 May 2010.
Do you all realize that "the Hook" is the only tabloid still talking about this trial? All legitimate news organizations have moved on.
No alcohol or sex in prison, are you kidding me? Wayne DeLong overdosed on heroin while sitting on death row. Georgie's parents will reach out to some slimeball defense attorney's that have clients serving time with Georgie. Their finances can take care of the convict's family, who will in turn look out for Georgie. Georgie will be running the library in prison, and have many long distance girlfriends who visit. Due to the publicity of the case, and the low self-esteem women who fall for inmates. George will have it better than me.
Just so you all know - and the Hook knows this - alcohol as we know it on the outside and as free people isn't in Prisons or Jails but they do make their own "brew". They have everything they need, bread, fruit and the know how - and it is more powerful than moonshine. As in corrections officers will tell you some batches, even in sealed containers can make you drunk by smell alone. So if he is in General Population he just might keep up his bad habits. One never knows.
@Hope For Yeardley - as one that also had a smiggen of the experience you had with alcohol, I can agree and it isn't just one segment of society but a whole. Not even young and old. Sort of like rudeness out there too - it has infested everyone.
And anger for injustice or the loss or hurt of the innocent. I can also understand this too. Women have long been frustrated by being the punching bags of men, being paid far less than their counterparts for the same (and sometimes more) work, for having to prove themselves twice as qualified as men for the same jobs or careers. For this a white male in our society of any economic backgroud has no clue.
When a case like this comes up - it brings that anger to the surface. I just hope that people will be a little more open to asking the right questions, suggesting help to be given or laws to be passed that will make it easier for people to live in society and lessen the abuse.
No alcohol or sex in prison, are you kidding me? Wayne DeLong overdosed on heroin while sitting on death row. Georgie's parents will reach out to some low life defense attorney's that have clients serving time with Georgie. Their finances can take care of the convict's family, who will in turn look out for Georgie. Georgie will be running the library in prison, and have many long distance girlfriends who visit. Due to the publicity of the case, and the low self-esteem women who fall for inmates. George will have it better than me.
"For Huguely, however, distance from sex and alcohol could prove equally arduous."
MAYBE NO ALCOHOL BUT HE WILL BE HAVING A LOT OF SEX. JUST A CHANGE OF "POSITION"
The incident when George punched another lacrosse teammate did NOT go unreported. George and the teammate both reported it to their coach the Monday after it happened. They both said it was no big deal. See here:
http://www.virginia.edu/uvatoday/corrections/051310_wp_correction.html
It's easy to say now that something should have done something after that happened. But guys who spend a lot of time together will sometimes get into scuffles. I've seen it happen. And if both George and the other teammate said they'd worked through it, I think it's reasonable that nothing was done.
Thoughtful said, "Get a clue - I think the statement by Woodchuck on switching from a Blackberry to an iphone is either heresay or a joke."
In one of the other newspaper blogs, someone who claimed to have firsthand knowledge of conditions at the jail said: "... he (Huguely) does get preferential treatment at the jail such as 2hrs per day outside court yard privilege, his own tv, and iphone access because his family paid to install the computer kiosks for the canteen orders."
Woodchuck - it's hard to say if this is true. But if it is, it means the rule regarding cellphones has been broken. It's hard for me to believe a rule like that would be broken. But it's possible.
I don't know if it's true or not. The guy (or girl) seemed to have an axe to grind with the jail.
The "computer kiosks for canteen orders" sounded like real jail talk to me.
Woodchuck - that information is available online at the VA prisons website.
Here's the link to info on how ACRJ inmates are allowed to make phone calls:
http://albemarle.org/department.asp?department=jail&relpage=13121
It's obvious that cell phones aren't allowed; they can't receive any calls, etc., etc. And think about it: Would the jail also be installing electrical outlets in prisoner areas so inmates could charge their cell phones? No.
This is a tragic event for the families and friends of both. Why didn't anyone feel strongly or care enough to advocate for either one? All involved should take responsibility and serve jail time . As a parent, coach or a friend, I would feel I failed both Yeardly and George.
And here's an article by two Radford professors, in an FBI publication, about how cell forms are considered "the most serious form of contraband" in prisons. There's simply no way ACRJ inmates, even George Huguely, could have one.
Oops! Forgot the link to the article:
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/...
Kate Burg - Thank you for the correction that the incident where George beat up the male student was reported and the beaten male student said it was "no big deal".
It's good when posters can verify their statements with an authentic source. So many things are being presented as truth, and many people are making unsubstantiated statements.
Agreed Thoughtful, Cville Native's posts claiming inside knowledge of jail life have strained credulity from the beginning and have become even more far fetched of late. I'm calling BS in general on the "I know for a fact because a friend of a friend of a friend told me" line.
A case point- "alcohol as we know it on the outside and as free people isn't in Prisons or Jails but they do make their own "brew". They have everything they need, bread, fruit and the know how - and it is more powerful than moonshine."
Anyone with even a passing knowledge of fermentation, distillation, etc. or what actually happens in jails and prisons would know better than to make such a ludicrous assertion. I can accept the statement about it making you drunk by smell alone as colorful hyperbole, but the rest is pure hogwash.
For those that seem to think that the issue is black and white and that someone should answer for the atrocity of Yeardley's death:
What is your recommendation? Surely, it is not putting Hugely in prison after the altercation with his Dad and the yacht. I agree that he should have suffered more ramifications after the taser incident with the cops, as well as more ramifications after the choke-hold incident with Yeardley. Yet, if you could deliver judgement, what would you do?
From my own personal experience, when I consider each incident in isolation of others, I become much less certain regarding proper corrective action.
Please, educate me. Isolated, these incidents seem to me - a. common, b. not indicative of someone with murderous potential. Seriously. Please convince me otherwise. The most indicative to me is the choke-hold, yet Yeardley herself, nor the competing Lacrosse players (including Burns), nor other partygoers, nor her family that she reconvened with soon after, reported instructing her to leave or reporting to police. I am not pointing fingers but only highlighting that we are human being, have tendencies towards anger and violence that in most cases amount to nothing, and have no common understanding of when murderous intention is a possibility. How can we predict the fate that Yeardley has so unfairly suffered? Can we talk about this frankly and proactively with no blame, no agendas? What can we do? As innocent yet equally responsible Americans do?
Yikes - typos above are abundant. I think I am clear but if not please ask me questions and I'll do my best to answer. Please, for the rest of this thread - quit with the requisite prison rape comments and other useless rhetoric - what can we do? for Yeardley?
Hope for Yeardley You are absolutely right. Can you post whatever charities that her family has designated for contributions?
saywha? and Thoughtful - my spouse works corrections and has for 10 plus years. It is on television - go watch "Lock Up" they will explain the contraband. People brew at home now! Come on - are you both that unaware? Drugs are in prisions too. Why would officers have to "shake down" inmates and search their cells? They make weapons out of plastic "sporks", how many escapes have happened. All inmates have is TIME - and they have time to out-think the systems. Many of them are a whole lot more intelligent and aware than the comments on this!
When my spouse comes home smelling of the stuff after work - I ask - and I am informed. It is a whole world in there that you wouldn't want to know. And no, my spouse does not give me names or details like that - but I do know more of what inmates are like than the average Joe. I also know that just like a police officer, my spouse could be killed tomorrow by an inmate. It happens more often than you think and most of the time the Prisons cover it up or make sure the media gets very little information.
CAT - http://www.joinonelove.org/
@Hope for Yeardley - agreed - nevermind the typos, they happen. Today, had the incident with the Police Officer happened, UVA would have been notified and he would have probably been expelled. Today, the incident of choking her, she could have obtained a restraining order to keep him away though they are pieces of paper that many ignore and violate but it is better than nothing. The restraining order change was due to Yeardley and her family. It was much needed here in Virginia. So, there are changes that have come about that may help the next time.
If you are in the military and out on leave and get a speeding ticket - your comand knows of it before you are back on base. I didn't understand how that incident was never reported to UVA. That is how colleges and universities out there can be free of offenders who may re-offend.
My husband is a recovered alcoholic, and had become physically abusive to me when very drunk on maybe 5-7 occasions. He has choked, hit, and kicked me and called me vile names. The trouble always started when he would start acting like an ass when drunk, and I would become very angry. It would then escalate to physical abuse. The man is NOTHING like this when sober. He cooks delicious meals, fixes things around the house, works very hard to provide for our family, and is not violent AT ALL when sober. This is a man who just spent a week bringing me his homemade chicken noodle soup, ginger ale, and crackers with my meds when I was down and out with the flu. George Huguely is not a spoiled brat who killed a girl because she didn't do what he wanted. George Huguely is a sick who was in the addictive grip of a disease called alcoholism that rendered him mentally incapacitated when very drunk. His brain was not functioning, as in the frontal cortex was severely impaired, and he was temporarily insane. I know this because I intimately know how alcohol ravaged the mental functioning of my dear husband who also suffers from this frightening affliction called alcoholism. If my husband killed me in a drunken rage, I would not want him to be imprisoned for 26 years. I would want him to get HELP for his psychiatric and medical condition called alcoholism so that he would not hurt himself or anyone else ever again. My husband was always horrified beyond words the next day when he was TOLD how he acted....he barely remembered. Just as I think it is insane that Andrea Yates, the psychotic mother, was sent to prison for drowning her children, I also think it is insane that a society sends a sick man to prison for 26 years for an act he committed while temporarily insane. Should he walk? No. But 26 years is absurd given the circumstances under which this sick mentally incapacitated man committed this act.
We had an emergency intervention for my husband when we recognized the danger he and we were in. We set safety boundaries that he agreed to while sober such as calling the police if he drinks in the house again. Our entire family has agreed not to drink ever again in his presence. We did this to protect him from himself and us from him. It is just a terrible shame that George's parents, coaches, teammates, sister, grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins, friends, and girlfriend did not do the same for him. Instead, many of them drank his poison right along with him. The lacrosse buddies left him completely wasted to go get MORE beer. I'm not passing
judgement since they may not understand the power and danger of this disease. He needed sane, sober, and concerned people to help him get psychiatric and medical HELP because he was no longer dealing with a normal brain.
This is just a heartbreaking situation because I know George, like my dear husband, woke up that fateful
morning absolutely horrified beyond imagination about what his sick brain allowed him to do. No, I do not think George Huguely deserves 26 years in prison. He deserves help because he is sick.
Alcohol is poison to MANY. My Duke MBA wall street working alcoholic cousin almost sexually assaulted me when drunk. He was OUT OF HIS MIND when he did this. He died 2 years ago on a weekend binge after 5 years of sobriety. My grandfather, a successful businessman, who adored my grandmother, was an alcoholic who one night flew into a drunken rage. She barricaded herself in the bathroom, and called 911 for help fearing for her life. Neither of these men were prone towards violence when SOBER. They too were rendered temporarily insane by this wonderful substance called alcohol.
I don't have the answers. I just do not think 26 years in prison is appropriate. I do not think this is solving any problems. We need to think as a society about prevention and education. We need to think of ways to make the potentially lethal substance of alcohol less accessible to these sick alcoholics who go temporarily insane on it. Maybe one should be required to have an ID to purchase it....sort of like with medical Marijuana. If others supply it to the sick person who does not have an ID, they are legally culpable.
I do not think he meant to kill her, but was temporarily insane and had no real clue what he was doing. I know
this because I've been Yeardley Love, but survived, and saw the clueless horror and shock in my "George's"
face the next day. My George saw my swollen cheek, and trashed living room, and spent 2 days lying in bed in deep depression and horror over what his sober self had to face up to the next day. He sobbed on my shoulder that he needed help that morning.
And thank god, we got him some.
By the way, my heart absolutely breaks for the Love family and their terrible loss. I am so sorry for them, and do respect that, to some degree, George needs to pay for his terrible act.
Remember, though, the jury is locking up Dr. Jekyll when Mr. Hyde was the one who committed the crime. So, in a sense or innocence, they've got the wrong man.
GG, thanks for sharing. I agree with you that alcoholics are sick people who need help. I am glad you are safe and I'm glad you were able to get your husband the help he needed before he seriously harmed you. I also agree with you that George likely did not go there with intent to kill nor do I believe that he *really* knew that his actions would result in her death. I have no idea what causes someone to become violent when drunk. But I do know what it is like to wake up after an evening and feel completely mystified about something I did or said when drunk. I also know what it is like to black out when drinking, I have done things I have no memory of doing. Related to this case, given the amount of alcohol George consumed the day before, I am sure he was still drunk during his questioning. My guess is that he was still impaired - not thinking clearly - and filling in the blanks with falsifications in an attempt to minimize his involvement in the crime (thinking she was just beat up and upset, before he knew she was dead). I am sure his memories of the damage he inflicted on poor Yeardley are like snapshots in time - not continuous nor detailed. The truth is that nobody really knows what happened in her room. I don't think anything he did that night was planned or thought through. He probably showed up drunk at her house for a "booty call" or maybe thinking they could "talk", and when she refused to let him in, he forced himself in and started the physical altercation that killed her.
He was drunk and violent and irrational. When someone is that drunk, especially an alcoholic, we cannot expect them to be like a rational, sober human being.
I agree that he should have to answer for this crime. I also can concur that alcohol and other substances do have a jeckyl/hyde impact on people. I wonder if today Huguely recognizes his problem with alcohol and if he attends AA or works some other sobriety program and is starting to face his demons, or if he would still maintain a similar story to the one shown on the tape. I wonder if he is ready for accountability. I believe at the formal sentencing he has an opportunity to speak or release a statement to the court. I wonder what it will say.
gg - Thanks for sharing your experience. It's a fine line between being a helper and being an enabler - not easy at all. I was reading on the VA prisons website that there are AA programs and other self development programs in prison. Hopefully he will attend those and can overcome those difficulties.
Sorry GG, you sound like one of George's relatives attempting to make excuses for him. '
Not buying it at all. You sure do have some mighty sick angry and violent relatives. I know NO ONE who gets like this and I am related to some alcoholics and am old enough to have been around the block 5 times and never have witnessed what you've stated. Not saying it's not true for you, but in my long life and experience I haven't seen any of it.
Though I don't live in Virginia any longer, I have followed this tragic story from beginning to end. I have a couple of questions that I'm curious about but not sure if they were ever covered.
1. What was George's blood alcohol level the following morning when being questioned by police or was it taken? Although it would have been much lower than when the crime was committed, it still may be telling.
2. Had Yeardley met George's family or had he met her Mother and sister since they had dated awhile. I know this doesn't always happen in college relationships but was thinking holidays, etc.
3. Is there a plan for any civic charges?
Thanks for any information on topics I may have missed.
Not Buyin It, the ALanon meetings are FILLED with women from all walks of life whose alcoholic husbands become verbally and physically abusive when drunk. If you go to a few ALANON meetings, you'll see. So I'm not buying your attempt to make me feel ashamed of myself and family with your tsk tsk tsk comment about how I sure have some violent relatives. Thanks for your compassion. Yes, these relatives of mine WHEN RENDERED TEMPORARILY INSANE on alcohol can become angry and violent. As alcoholics, they have physiologically altered their brains and are no longer like normal people even when sober to some degree. Tragic. I know many others from Alanon just like them. What percentage of violent crimes were committed while under the influence of alcohol? Not sure the exact percentage, but am almost positive that it is VERY high.
Kind of funny that you need a doctor's prescription to buy "medical marijuana" which generally just mellows folks out. Other drugs are illegal. Yet alcohol is a free for all, and many easily become addicted and destroyed by it. I'm not saying normal people shouldn't have free access, but couldn't these sick alcoholics be denied access to it?
Sorry again GG, wasn't trying to shame you. I was giving my opinion. I recognize this was YOUR experience. And maybe some others too. Not been mine or those I know and I know many many people who drink.
You know people who've been severely abused in childhood sometimes have a propensity for perpetrating violence onto others. They claim they were responding out of their post traumatic syndrome shock, or regressions, or saying they are so damaged because they didn't get their nurturing and training from significant others and that's why they "acted out" and committed the crime.
Does this mean they too were temporarily "insane"? Would we be locking up the "wrong" person as you put it? They've made those claims: the "abuse" claim. Should they be exonerated for the crime they committed? NO. Nor should people like George and your husband.
In order to keep society civilized we have to hold everyone accountable for their actions regardless of their issues or degrees, etc. Especially alcoholics. They KNOW they are drunks and what they are liable to do when they drink and the potential destruction they can and will cause if they do. There is plenty of knowledge out now, known by everyone about the damage alcoholics and people who drink and choose to get behind the wheel or a car or strike a woman, etc. for any of them to claim ignorance.
BTW I have been in enough AALON meetings to know the song and dance there. Glad you are getting the support you need there. Just because a group of people gather togetther and discuss their family members poor impulse control and Dr Jekyell and Mr. Hyde switches means nothing. George killed Yeardley regardless of the alcohol issue. He wasn't arrested for alcohol, it was murder plus. No one testified to George's addictive use of alcohol, so we just don't know. You can speculate but all we know is he murdered her and he was increasingly becoming violent towards others. For the good of society he is being removed from the streets to protect us. For this, I am enormously grateful. Happen to think 26 years is not long enough either.
This girl is dead. She died in unimaginable fear and pain, as someone she had loved broke into her room and slammed her head against a wall until he shattered her skull. I really don't care that he had a disease that he refused to deal with. He beat this girl to death and threatened to kill another woman ( a police officer no less). I have been around alcoholism (hasn't everyone?) and I haven't heard of many instances where people were killed. NOT BUYING IT is correct, he needs to be off the streets. Less concern for the killer, let's have more compassion for the family of Ms Love . They will never get over this. Ever. They lost a sister, a daughter, a future son in law, future grandchildren and nieces and nephews. It is bad enough when anyone dies, it is worse when someone young and vibrant dies, and it so much worse when they were killed by someone they knew. Forget the highly visual anguish of the Huguelys, think of the Loves' pain. GG not to minimise your family's issues but I would bet you that if your recovering husband tried to murder you or your children one fine night, you would drastically reeavaluate the situation. People who try to kill other people are criminals, thats it. If they succeed, they should be put away or put down. The old hate the sin but love the sinner doesnt cut it when the sinner has murdered someone. The good that Yeardley could have done, the additional joy that she would have experienced, and that she could have brought into the world has been extinguished by this self-indulgent oaf. He deserves to rot in prison, not to be cosseted for his weaknesses.
Around 40%-50% of violent crimes involved alcohol according to the US gov report. Does this mean that by regulating its use and accessibility more closely, violent crimes could be reduced significantly?
Marijuana requires a prescription in the few states in which it is legal. How many men turn vicious against their loved ones after smoking a joint? I don't think weed should be sold at Piggly Wiggly either, but with those statistics, why is alcohol?
I don't think normal people should be restricted, but high risk folks (DUI offenses, other alcohol related offences, rehab stints resulting in physician alcoholism diagnosis, etc) could be. Just think how this nightmare could have had a different ending if George had his license to purchase and consume alcohol taken away for an indefinite amount of time when he had first accosted the female police officer. Those supplying him with alcohol would be held culpable just as one would be if supplying it to a minor. It would not completely alleviate problem drinkers from having access (since people could still give it to them, but with risk of being held culpable), but these restrictions could significantly reduce it and/or alleviate it in many cases. If George had been wearing a visible state issued non-removable sobriety tag on the golf course that fateful day, his father and friends would have been FAR less likely to pass him a beer as it would be illegal. He certainly would not have been served more wine that evening at the restaurant or the bar the night before. The lacrosse buddies would have had to take the 12 am beer run stash on the night she died to another apartment if it were illegal to have alcohol in his residence. If it were illegal for him to be in a place of residence with open containers, he would have been less likely to have been invited over to the friends' place. This means George often would have been socially on the perimeter, but it sure beats the hell out of a dead girl, two devastated families, and 26 years behind bars. Think of how much more sense it makes to spend the time and money on the prevention of the 40% of violent crimes rather than on the expense of incarcerating millions of these problem drinkers year after year. It won't solve the problem completely, but it could greatly reduce it.
OMG GG, you want the world to revolve around these alcoholics
OMG GG, you want the world to revolve around these drunks!. I've heard it all now: state non removable tags.
The State is NOT in the business of babysitting men like George and your husband and others who refuse to take responsibility for putting the drink to their lips.
Are you trolling? Are you for real? What about Yeardley? Good Grief.
BTW Cat: terrific comment.
@ following from afar -
To answer your questions:
1. George's BAC was never entered into evidence by either side, so people seem to assume the police did not take his BAC that morning.
2. Yeardley had definitely met his family. After Yeardley's death, George's mother released a statement saying something to the effect that she loved Yeardley. There was also video of Yeardley talking to George's aunt at a family lacrosse event at the bar a few days before her death. His aunt testified that George and Yeardley were holding hands.
3. I don't think there's been anything public said on civil charges. The Loves would definitely have a case for wrongful death if they wanted to go down that road, but no one knows at this time...
Thanks kate burg for answering...AND...for correcting my typo...civil vs. civic ;-)
kate burg
I am assuming that BAC means Blood Alcohol count. It is unfathomable that they would not have given him some type of drug and alcohol tests. Don't know the answer. At least this time the crime was solved, and someone was convicted. Hope the next girl assulted and murdered at UVA gets some type of justice.
What about the lacrosse coach? Is he being disciplined? You can't tell me he had no idea GH was a ticking time bomb. His bad behavior was going on for years. Yet, Starsia has escaped unscathed. And over at the Sabre, it's amazing how quickly the lacrosse message board has forgotten Yeardley. "Let's just focus on THIS team," they say. Don't want bad publicity to affect us getting more wins. Yeah, sweep it under the rug.
I think GG makes some reasonable points. It is clear that alcohol abuse has a devastating effect on many people and their families. Just saying that they are responsible does not solve the problem. The problem is that an alcoholic does have have a problem in taking responsibility and saying they should will not give them that ability. I don't know what circles you move in Not buying it, but I can attest to my own experience where my father did become violent towards my mother when drunk, while he never would do so while sober. But the decision to continue to drink was squarely on his shoulders. He had enormous problems in taking responsibility for anything. There are a number of other cases in my family of alcoholics who became violent while drunk and I have heard of many such examples from other people. Yes, it rarely results in death...but sometimes it does as here we see. While I agree the person who drinks excessively is the culprit, we cannot deny the effects of alcohol. It is literally poison for the body and the body deals with it as it would a poison.
Then explain, Not Buying It, why Marijuana is so tightly regulated? Why does the government babysit pot smokers? How many violent crimes have been committed under the influence of alcohol versus Marijuana? The very idea of people smoking weed, and then becoming aggressive and violent is almost laughable as it tends to have a sedating and mellowing effect. So why does the government babysit Marijuana users and not alcohol users if almost half of violent crimes are reported to involve alcohol?
You are actually acting as the troll on here like some rabid cyber pit bull honing in and attacking those who present perspectives that differ from yours. Take a breath! I was expressing my own thoughts based on my experience in the spirit of encouraging ideas to help prevent another terrible tragedy like this one. I was encouraging people to look at the problem from all angles to think of ways to prevent and improve our society. Geez, you really have a way of trying to dole out shame onto people who feel very fragile and hurt like I do regarding this whole very painful and difficult issue. I happen to have compassion for alcoholics like George and my husband (and enormous sympathy for Yeardley and her devastated family too) because they are still human beings and they are sick. Their behavior is atrocious, but there is an underlying problem that needs to be addressed on an individual and a societal level. So yeah, maybe the government needs to babysit people like George and my husband just as it babysits pot smokers. If it lowers that 40% statistic, why not?
I'm not engaging with you beyond this. You are not a very kind person because you resort to attacking and shaming people.
gg Yeah, just like Georgie attacked people. I wasnt aware that this was an analysis of society's ills or your family history. I thought it was an article about someone who killed an innocent human being. Sorry your husband is an alcoholic, but I am a lot sorrier for the Love family who didn't choose to lose a daughter to an individual's actions alcoholic or not. Perhaps it is more important for people who have homicidal drives, drunk or sober, to learn thet they can't gove way to those urges without consequences, than it is for us to set up a police state to control alocoholics. As if this would EVER pass into law. As the relative of someone who was violently murdered in Charlottesville, I have seen first hand the pain and lasting suffering that murder inflicts on a family--it's far worse than a normal death. I have little compassion for someone who kills another human being. Don't care if they are sociopaths or drunks, they shoudlnt be loose in society. Now the stupid brigade like the recent hunter who killed his neighbor, they should be forbidden to have weapons. That won't happen either in Virginia. I bet you that he will get a 2 year sentence max. Just pray that you husband doesnt ever snap--that would be even less kind than the comments here. It's not about you it's about Georgie and the girl he killed.
gg - it is illegal for approximately half the undergraduates at uva to drink. And you see how that works don't you?
And we had Prohibition, too - because of rampant alcoholism...didn't work.
Your scenario is downright scary - to have the government policing alcohol consumption. Surely they wouldn't stop there. And surely they'd do a grand job.
How about we all just agree to take responsibility for our own actions? Everyone has issues and life is hard all the way around.
Again Cat, great comment. You are more tactful than I .
GG, I know you aren't going to respond to me here, fine. But know that this for me is about Yeardley and her family. If you feel shamed by me, there's nothing I can do, as blogs such as this are not fan clubs or support groups. I am sorry you are feeling so fragile. I don't know you and therefore really don't have the power to hurt you on any meaningful level. It sounds to me you are wanting both you and your husband to be deeply understood and treated with more understanding than you may get here amongst strangers. I do have strong feelings about this entire issue. But mostly this is about Yeardley and her family finally receiving a measure of justice.
This poor girl was isolated in her room not wanting to see George. That he came over and kicked her door in and overpowered her to eventual death is different to me than a drunk yelling and throwing something at his wife in the kitchen having an irrational fight. He was not so drunk that he knew why to steal her laptop. Then he lied to protect himself later that evening to his roommates. This does not sound like a drunk in a blackout but even if he were in one I don't care. He sounds more like a sociopath in some sort of protection mode. I don't buy the poor Georgie agenda.
Basically it all boils down to character doesn't it? How someone mans up and either deals with their own addictions or doesn't. An alcoholic has the benefit of knowing what the liable repercussions will be if he drinks. He/she's lucky imo. I have a child that is severely epileptic. He never knows when he'll seize, never know when, where, how, etc........He cannot drive b/c of this, nor will he ever. When he loses control of his bladder in class during a seizure, he picks himself up afterwards and deals with it. And so it goes day after day. My family's job has been to teach him how to deal with the periphery of his illness, but he lives it. He's a class act and believe me he absolutely hates this cross he bears.
But we all have our crosses don't we? The essential aspect is how we carry them, how we stay true to ourselves and still treat our neighbors as we would ourselves. There is a bottom line.
gg I appreciate your story, but I am thinking that perhaps it is not the place to open yourself up because people can't always appreciate it on a forum like this. Certainly there is a lot of good discussion here, but even though justice has been carried out, there are those on here who feel it is their duty to mete out justice to the charged and to anyone who might feel some compassion for him. I don't think any one poster on here is in a position to dictate what can be discussed here. But I think it is good to know what you are dealing with here so you don't get hurt.
Here's a thought-provoking (and well argued) essay on the Huguely verdict by a UVa law student in the Law Weekly. I know her (I'm her landlady), and after the essay was published she realized that he had not, in fact, been previously arrested for domestic violence.
http://www.lawweekly.org/?module=displaystory&story_id=3655&edition_id=2...
BJNordin: I didn't find that essay to be so enlightening. It sounded like it was written by a young woman who's frontal lobe has not fully matured.
I'm not seeing people calling Georgie Boy evil as much as they call him a murderer and bully and drunk. Monsterous yes. I would imagine any one finding themselves under and in his hands in a blind rage beating, smashing heads, fists, chokeholds would call him a monster. I sure as heck wouldn't want to be anywhere near Georgie Boy, sober, angry, silent, passive. He's a nobody now. He's defined his life for himself and while it may not be the total truth of him, it is what he's brought on for himself.
Maybe the evil in him was that he did plenty damage to a few others and chose not to reform himself or get help. Maybe he liked being a bully and intimidating others, we don't know for sure, only he does.
The women who wrote the essay was doing alot of assuming for Georgie Boy, Cause she don't have no clue as to what he was thinking or up to. One thing that appears to be certain is that he seemed to be one cold and arrogant dude. Don't sound like his classmates have much respect for him either. But the good news is he's going to make all sorts of new friends in the slammer. So all you Georgie Boy fans cheer up, he'll make the best outta a bad situation. He never needed ya'll before and he sure don't need ya now.