'He's still here.' And other revelations in the Harrington case
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hook cover -
Morgan was an animal lover who hoped to work in education. She had planned to travel to Zambia during the spring of 2010 to work with her mother through the nonprofit Orphans Medical Network International. Following her death, the wing of a new school for orphans-- funded by donations after her death-- was named in her honor.PHOTO COURTESY HARRINGTON FAMILY -
The summer before her death, Morgan was an intern at the Virginia Tech Carilion School of medicine, where her father, psychiatrist Dan Harrington, is on staff.PHOTO COURTESY HARRINGTON FAMILY -
Morgan was wearing a Swarovsky crystal necklace like this one the night she disappeared. It has never been recovered.FILE PHOTO -
Morgan was carrying a red Kodak camera similar to this one the night of the Metallica concert. It has not been found.FILE PHOTO -
"This case will solve," says Virginia State Police lead investigator Dino Cappuzzo, standing in the spot where Morgan Harrington's remains were discovered on Anchorage Farm in southern Albemarle County.PHOTO BY JEN FARIELLO -
This composite sketch of a suspect in the Harrington case was created from the description given by the victim in a 2005 rape in Fairfax. DNA evidence links this unknown man to both crimes. "He's still here," Morgan's mother Gil Harrington has warned the Charlottesville community.POLICE COMPOSITE SKETCH -
Morgan Harrington is not the only person to disappear from UVA. Back in 1986, a grad student named Pat Collins vanished. He has never been found.FAMILY PHOTO
It was a Saturday night in October 2009. The air outside was chilly, and a light rain was falling as the visiting father finished dinner with his daughter at a Charlottesville restaurant and the two returned to his car. As the father drove his daughter back to her dormitory around 9:20pm, their path took them past John Paul Jones Arena, where a major event was underway.
Heavy metal group Metallica had taken the stage only minutes before, and fans who'd flocked from all over the East Coast had gathered inside. As the main event roared inside the Arena, the parking lots outside were full and lights were blazing, but Copeley Road was nearly devoid of pedestrians.
As the father and daughter traveled toward Ivy Road and over the railroad bridge, the ordinary ride suddenly took them past an unusual sight. A young woman, dressed all in black with long blond hair, was standing on the bridge with her thumb extended in the classic hitchhiking gesture.
The pair would soon learn that they were among the last to see Morgan Dana Harrington alive.
*****
It's been more than a year since the body of the 20-year-old Virginia Tech education student was discovered. With no suspects named, police have been reaching out to the public in hopes that someone will be able to help take the investigation a step further. How did Morgan's body end up in a cow pasture 10 miles away? Is a killer still stalking the streets of Charlottesville and Albemarle County?
Details revealed
During a recent tour tracing Morgan's last known steps, Virginia State Police Special Agent Dino Cappuzzo shared the story of that father and daughter– and revealed that it was their witness testimony that permitted police to pinpoint the time Morgan was likely abducted.
The father, whose identity has not been revealed, dropped his daughter off at her dorm, Cappuzzo says, a few minutes after the bridge crossing. Her electronic key was logged at 9:23pm by her dorm's security system.
On his way back to his hotel, the father stopped at the 7-11 convenience store on Ivy Road, says Cappuzzo. There, another time-stamp–- this one in the form of a register receipt–- provided police with another objective time mark around 9:30pm. When the father left the 7-11 and returned over the bridge no more than a minute or two later, Cappuzzo says, he remembered the young woman standing with short sleeves and no umbrella in the chilly drizzle. She was gone.
Within approximately 10 minutes of those two bridge crossings, two other unrelated witnesses reported to police that they'd seen a blond woman hitchhiking there. Cappuzzo says all witnesses' stories have been thoroughly vetted by police, and none are considered suspects.
The witnesses descriptions are several pieces of new information Cappuzzo released during the media tour he conducted on Tuesday, January 25, a day before the one-year anniversary of the discovery of the body. The tour marked the first news emerging from law enforcement since last summer, when State Police confirmed that DNA in the Harrington case was linked to a 2005 rape in Fairfax.
The victim in that case survived after her assailant was likely startled by a passerby; the composite sketch produced from her description of an average sized African American male, aged 25-35, is the only publicly known information about the suspected perpetrator, whose DNA now exists in the State's DNA databank, though his identity remains unknown.
Because eye-witness accounts–- particularly from traumatized witnesses–- are notoriously unreliable, police have been cautious in confirming the suspect's race. In a recent Hook story, "Familial Pain: Harringtons press police for new DNA test," police spokesperson Corinne Geller says investigators have considered various tests including an "ancestral" DNA test, which could reveal with greater certainty how the suspect might appear. That's the same test that Charlottesville police controversially ran during the serial rapist investigation in the 1990s. During that episode, mass swabbing of black men prompted cries of racism, one lawsuit, and proved unable to catch the perpetrator. (One of his victims later spotted her attacker working the meat counter at a local Harris-Teeter grocery.)
The other DNA test the Harringtons are pressing authorities to run is a familial DNA search, which could help narrow the pool of possible suspects by finding close relatives of the unknown assailant . That search will only work if the perpetrator has an immediate relative– parent, sibling or child– who is a convicted felon or has been arrested for a violent felony– the two ways an individual's DNA would end up in the identified zone of the state databank.
The Virginia Department of Forensic Science has obtained and is currently in the process of validating familial DNA searching software. However, State Police spokesperson Geller says investigators must proceed "very selectively and carefully" with any DNA testing because the evidence available for analysis is limited. DNA is destroyed by the testing process and cannot be retested for different purposes that might arise.
Erratic behavior
Investigator Cappuzzo says the witnesses in the three bridge sightings claim they didn't see Harrington carrying a purse. That, he says, could be because the black purse had backpack-like straps, and if she'd been wearing it, it might not have been visible against her black Pantera t-shirt. It also could be because she'd already dropped it in the RV lot, where on the morning of Sunday, October 18, a member of the men's lacrosse team discovered it near the fence and turned it in to a lost-and-found receptacle in U-Hall. Her back-less cell phone and an umbrella were among her items also recovered from that area.
Morgan's parents, Gil and Dan, have repeatedly expressed disbelief that their daughter could have dropped her purse, left it there, and then begun hitchhiking. Such behavior doesn't match their experience of their daughter, whom they have long described as having "good sense." But descriptions from multiple witnesses who interacted with Morgan earlier in the night– both inside and outside the Arena– suggest she wasn't in a normal state of mind.
Cappuzzo again confirmed that Morgan had consumed alcohol that night, but he declines to describe the amount or type of drinks imbibed. He also declines comment on any other substances she may have consumed "out of respect for her family." He adds there is no indication that Morgan was unwittingly drugged or incapacitated by someone with nefarious intent.
As the Hook first reported in the weeks after her disappearance, numerous witnesses inside the Arena reported erratic behavior. Cappuzzo says she left her friends to use the ladies room sometime after 8pm while opening act Lamb of God was on stage. While on her own, at some point, she fell and injured her chin. Cappuzzo says multiple witnesses reported seeing the injury and offering assistance– one woman saw Morgan applying paper towels to her face to blot blood from a "minor injury." Morgan, he says, rebuffed all offers of help.
The Arena's no re-entry policy has been a source of controversy, and Cappuzzo at last addressed questions about the moment Morgan left the Arena. While some have speculated that she was lured outside, Cappuzzo revealed that a ticket taker warned Morgan about the Arena's no re-entry policy as she prepared to exit through the main doors facing Copeley Road. Morgan acknowledged the warning, Cappuzzo says, then left anyway, where she was seen emptying the contents of her purse in an apparently unsuccessful effort to find her red Kodak digital camera, which has never been recovered. Standing in front of the Arena, witnesses also reported seeing her drop her phone, then retrieve it.
When she tried to reenter through the main entrance of the Arena, says Cappuzzo, the ticket taker asked for her ticket.
"She said, 'It's in pieces in my purse,'" says Cappuzzo, who says the ticket taker stopped her when it appeared she planned to dump the contents of her purse again. Told she'd need to purchase another ticket if she wanted to return, Morgan left the Arena a second time and remained in the immediate area for as long as 10 or 15 minutes, interacting with various concertgoers–- several of whom offered her assistance, which she again declined.
'Somewhat aggressive'
Among the witnesses who reported seeing Harrington was a 44-year-old man, whom the Hook interviewed a few weeks after the concert. Waiting on the Massie Road side of the Arena for a late-arriving friend who had his ticket, the man says he heard shouting from the front of the Arena and was soon approached by a young woman fitting Morgan's description and wearing a Pantera t-shirt.
She put her arm out, bent, as though to walk escorted, and said, “Let’s go," said the witness, who characterized the young woman's behavior as "somewhat aggressive." When he declined the invitation and turned to walk away, the young woman cursed at him and kicked him "in the butt."
“It wasn’t that hard,” he says of the kick, but he was disturbed enough that he immediately telephoned his girlfriend to relate the encounter.
“She told me I should call the police and report her,” he said. “Now I wish I had.”
Although that man– cleared as a suspect, says Cappuzzo, declined to walk away with Morgan, it wasn't long before she found a group of men to join. According to Cappuzzo, sometime around 9pm, two separate groups of students–- whom the Hook has previously reported to be members of the men's basketball team–- left John Paul Jones Arena. One group left through a side door, another through the main front doors. Morgan began walking with the side-door group as they traversed Massie Road and walked through the parking lots on the west side of U-Hall, on their way to the RV lot, where student-athletes park when the Arena is busy.
The male students told police Morgan was unsteady on her feet, says Cappuzzo. "They described her as having to support herself on vehicles as she was walking," he says. In the parking lot about halfway between U-Hall and the RV lot, she dropped her phone. The back piece of it would be recovered three days later, says Cappuzzo, but the battery has never been found.
A full 10 days after her disappearance, Cappuzzo says, a bloodhound was brought in to follow Morgan's path. The bloodhound, says Cappuzzo, followed the exact path the witnesses described– across Copeley Road and up the grassy slope into the RV lot.
That's where the two groups of male students converged, and although Harrington requested a ride from them– to where, Cappuzzo would not reveal– the students declined. Cappuzzo says the 14 men who saw her there have all been interviewed multiple times and their alibis have been thoroughly checked. "They had another event to attend that night," says Cappuzzo.
After the students departed, Morgan walked along the fence that separates the lot from the UVA track, according to Cappuzzo, who says her trail was picked up by the bloodhound, which stopped near a small line of portable toilets at the lot's rear. Cappuzzo says two non-student witnesses driving down a road that leads from the baseball stadium to the RV lot reported seeing Morgan in that area– and recalled yet another unusual behavior for a young woman alone on a dark rainy night.
"She curtsied," says Cappuzzo, but she didn't attempt to flag them down.
Why, many have asked, wouldn't Morgan have gone to her own car– which Cappuzzo says was parked in the lot between Emmett Street and U-Hall? As previously reported, one of the three friends who accompanied Morgan on their trip from Harrisonburg to Charlottesville was serving as designated driver that night, and as a result was holding on to her keys.
As Metallica prepared to take the stage, one of the friends called Morgan to ask where she was. The time of that call– 8:48pm– suggests a conversation before she left the vicinity of the Arena, and Cappuzzo says her friends tried to offer her tips to get back inside.
"They were trying to tell her to get to the smoking area," says Cappuzzo, who says the friend mistakenly believed that area could be accessed from outside. In fact, it is above ground and surrounded by concrete walls.
Unable to get back in, Harrington told her friend, "I'll get a ride." She was soon walking across Massie Road with the basketball team.
None of the friends who accompanied Harrington to the concert has yet spoken about that fateful night with media, but Cappuzzo says all have fully cooperated with the investigation. Other than a series of text messages with an out-of-town friend whose alibi has also been checked, Cappuzzo says Morgan had no other electronic communications.
Morgan's absence from surveillance videos has created a stir among armchair sleuths. However, a source involved in the Arena's design notes that cameras were primarily trained on the inside of the venue. Cappuzzo also downplays the absence of Morgan on security cameras at various businesses, including the Suntrust Bank at the corner of Ivy and Copeley Road. Such cameras, he notes, were designed for on-premises security, not for finding a missing person, he says. And, he adds, the relatively low quality of black and white video produced by the four-year-old John Paul Jones surveillance system makes picking one person out of thousands a difficult if not impossible task.
Even without photographic proof, Cappuzzo says plenty of evidence confirms Morgan did end up alone in the RV lot. From the portable toilets where she curtsied, the bloodhound tracked Morgan back to the bridge and then over it before turning west on Ivy Road, where it lost her scent near the Foods of All Nations grocery store. Unbelievable as it seems, Cappuzzo says that 10 days after Morgan was there, the bloodhound would have been able to detect her scent even if she had gotten into a car.
Another possibility for the scent reaching Ivy Road, he explains, is "scent drift," caused by wind and rain that may have brought the molecules the dog was detecting some distance from where she actually last stood. Either way, Cappuzzo says, police are convinced that Morgan got into a vehicle somewhere on or near the bridge, and very likely did so willingly.
There would be no sign of her for more than three months until her remains were discovered on a remote farm in Albemarle County nearly 10 miles away.
"How did she get there?" asks Cappuzzo. "That's the key."
Anchorage Farm
In the days following the January 26, 2010 discovery of Morgan's body, which was found by a farmer as he drove a tractor checking fences in a secluded field on Anchorage Farm in southern Albemarle County, police repeatedly stressed the spot's isolation– and their belief that only someone familiar with the terrain could have placed her there. At the January 25 tour, Morgan's parents' had their first opportunity to experience that remoteness.
Led by State Police, a caravan of media vehicles traveled the nine miles from the Copeley Road Bridge south along U.S. 29 to the Farm entrance, and then another mile up the gravel driveway. The vehicles passed within approximately 100 feet of the property's two dwellings and through a pair of gates immediately adjacent to the main house. Once through the gates, the caravan crossed a bumpy downward-sloping field in full view of the property's main residence for approximately a quarter mile, driving through waist-high grass and over pitted ground before coming to a stop atop an even steeper downward slope.
From there, media trailed Gil and Dan Harrington as they walked the remaining quarter mile, Gil sobbing audibly, following a tractor path into a stand of trees and out the other side, to the secluded field where Morgan was found– a couple of acres enclosed by barbed-wire fencing on at least two sides and thick stands of trees on three.
Cappuzzo would not reveal investigators' theory about that night's most likely ingress path, but he admits that any perpetrator– particularly transporting a drugged, injured, or already deceased victim– would have been unusually bold to have driven via the route by which media arrived. The noise and lights of a vehicle might have been easily audible to residents of the two dwellings.
That leaves access from the Blandemar Farm Estates subdivision, which requires crossing a creek and then climbing over one and possibly two barbed wire fences. It also leaves Red Hill Road, which forms the southern border of Anchorage Farm.
While media have not been permitted to explore the Farm, the Hook has spoken with one local resident whose curiosity pressed her to journey to the property after Harrington's disappearance. The resident says access from Red Hill Road isn't as difficult as one might expect. The self-motivated sleuth describes entering through a series of unlocked gates that would put a vehicle on the correct side (East) of the main waterway that traverses the property, a branch of the Hardware River. All other obstacles, the resident believes, could be handled even by a small two-wheel-drive vehicle.
If investigators know how Morgan got onto the property, they aren't saying. But Cappuzzo tailors his comments to residents of the Red Hill/North Garden area.
"We're extremely confident he's still in this community," says Cappuzzo, citing multiple behavioral specialists who specialize in geographic profiling. All, he said, agreed "this person has been here before."
Will the killer be caught?
Standing on the spot where Morgan's remains were discovered, Cappuzzo disputes any notion that the case has gone cold and that the killer will go unpunished– and remain free to harm someone else.
"This case will be solved," he promises, though he admits to having "no timeline."
No timeline means the Harrington parents and Morgan's brother, Alex, will continue to suffer through the agony of their loss, compounded by the additional pain of not knowing what happened– and who's responsible.
Dan Harrington recalls the case of Pat Collins– a UVA grad student who vanished in 1986. In a series of feature-length stories in the mid- to late-1990s, local writer Barbara Nordin explored that case in depth– pointing out ways that UVA police had bungled the investigation by ignoring leads, contaminating evidence, and initially suggesting that Collins had simply walked away from his life. No evidence of a voluntary departure ever emerged, and Collins' family– including his retired police investigator stepfather– attempted to get the case reopened. It remains unsolved, with Collins' fate, perhaps forever unknown.
The Harringtons, however, aren't making any claims of official bungling in Morgan's case. Dan Harrington notes that by the time he and Gil had their first meeting with law enforcement 36 hours after Morgan's disappearance, UVA police had already called in Virginia State Police, who took over the investigation.
Citing a "thorough" early search conducted on Sunday, October 18 of the area immediately around the Arena, Lt. Melissa Fielding with UVA Police says her colleagues quickly realized "this case was likely to take us off Grounds" and sought a law enforcement agency with greater resources. UVA police have continued to assist in the investigation, as have Charlottesville's and Albemarle's police departments.
While Dan Harrington says the parents recognize the hard work State Police investigators are putting in to the case, he says he does wish they'd be more forthcoming with information– if only to generate more tips.
Dan Harrington says he and Gil will speak at a national convention for missing persons in Wisconsin next month, headlined by Beth Holloway, the mother of Natalie Holloway, who disappeared without a trace while vacationing in Aruba in 2005. Although Natalie is widely believed to have been killed by a Dutchman named Joran van der Sloot, who is currently imprisoned in Peru for allegedly murdering another woman on the fifth anniversary of Natalie's disappearance, van der Sloot has never been prosecuted in the Holloway case.
"You have to give something to get something back from the public," says Dan Harrington, explaining that his and Gil's regular public presentations are a way of keeping Morgan in the public's consciousness.
He also comments on a recent true crime show in which a young woman in a small town is murdered.
"That community was enraged and concerned that someone was out there," says Harrington. "I've never seen that in Charlottesville. I don't think that the community believes there's a murderer in their midst."
Already, more than a year has passed without a named suspect in the Harrington case, and Dan Harrington is realistic about the case, even as he expresses his concern that the unknown person, first implicated in the Fairfax rape, has increased his brutality to murder.
"The person who did this has hurt two people," warns the father. "There will be some other crime committed. It may not be this year, and it may not be next year, but there will be another one."
Anyone with information in the Morgan Harrington case or the Fairfax rape case should call the Virginia State Police tip line at (434) 352-3467. There is a $150,000 reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction in the case.
745 comments
What do they mean "he's still here"? Has this been confirmed at all? Why would they even say that? This is getting out of hand. Nutcase family
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To REALLY? Who do you think you are! Keep your posts somewhere else b/c no one wants to hear what you have to say their daughter was MURDERED and you think they're nut cases because they want to find their daughters murder YOU'RE the Crazy one! If you had a family with children and cared like this family does than you'd understand!
How dare you. What ever happened to compassion? These people lost a daughter to a brutal murder. How could you even say how one is "supposed" to act. You have no business judging them.
Besides, he's SOMEWHERE, and regardless of whether or not his next crime (and it will happen, as his history clearly indicates) is in Charlottesville or otherwise, there IS a killer in our midst.
the other rapist worked at Kroger, not Harris Teeter.
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What is 'getting out of hand' is our children and loved ones being murdered day after day. How this poor girl went out with her friends for what should have been a great night of fun and ended up killed and disposed of like she was nothing in some field. She didn't just die that night, I'm sure her family also died a little. They will never be the same, never feel completely happy again in their lives because their daughter and sister was taken from them by some monster. Some coward. You make such ignorant comments, hidden behind your computer. Put yourself in their shoes for even 5 seconds and imagine what they must feel and have to live with and picture each time they close their eyes at night, if they even can.
What an awful comment. You should be ashamed.
I hope this monster is caught soon so no one else has to go through this, and their poor families and friends afterwards.
Just out of curiosity, which children and loved ones are being murdered day after day?
This thing with Morgan is horrible, but if you live in fear of something like this happening to you or your family (a minuscule chance), you should die, as you aren't really living...
I am so sick of people judging this family. If it were your child, would you not leave one stone unturned to find who took her from you? Would you not be on the rooftops screaming for justice? Would you not be yelling 'he is among us still', to keep others vigilant, and aware? Would you not do everything in your power to ensure another young woman, someones child, had to suffer this? To make sure no other parent ever had to lose a child to the monster who took yours from you?REALLY, you must not be a mother, you must not understand the bond a Mother has for her child/children. A mother would give her life without hesitation for their child's...They will fight to the death for their child, and if that child is taken violently, senselessly as Morgan was, a mother would yell until her voice gave way to find who did it. No, this Mother, and Father, have lost THEIR dear child, and they are doing everything they can to get justice, as well as protect others from the same fate. Give them a little respect. They deserve it!!!!
To really: "We're extremely confident he's still in this community," says Cappuzzo, citing multiple behavioral specialists who specialize in geographic profiling. All, he said, agreed "this person has been here before."
Seems the VSP says he's still there... You should take the time to read the article before making your pot stirring cowardly comments......
Ignoring the insulting comment about the Harrington family:
As far as whether the perp is still in the area, I don't know..... The VSP could just be saying that he's still here to try to keep people vigilant. It's not like he stayed in Fairfax after the sexual assault.
Also, this MO of leaving the body in a field..... You'd think that if he was so familiar with the spot, he WOULDN'T just leave the body there, you know? OR, if he was familiar with the spot, he'd split town after leaving the body there.
This is all speculation off the top of my head and I'm ascribing reason and intelligence to this perpetrator. But it doesn't make sense to me that he'd stick around after committing this crime, especially since he didn't even bother to bury the body.
Absent another attack, the best chance for catching this guy is for someone to recognize the composite sketch generated after the Fairfax crime to which he has been linked, yet there is no sketch in this article and no direct and easy link to one? And not even a physical description? Also the fact that he can be positively identified through DNA, to the exclusion of all others might make someone more likely to suggest anonymously that it may be their brother in law, neighbor, co-worker, etc. Knowing that an innocent person won't be dragged through the justice system needlessly because they cant remember where they were a year or so ago might help persuade someone to come forward.
Hey killer, I have a great idea for your next victim, just dig in and find Really?? then we will all be better off, this world doesn't need another cold-hearted person so getting rid of this one will be no big deal.
I continue to be amazed by this couple's strength.
There is no relevant story thread to post on, and that is exactly the point. Nonetheless, it sure is making news elsewhere..
http://liveaction.org/blog/police-no-record-from-planned-parenthood/
And, oh, they've been caught...........AGAIN.
http://liveaction.org/blog/bronx-planned-parenthood/
hey ... as long as the crime didn't occur on UVA grounds ...
took an entire year with no yielded results for VSP and Abelmarle to come together to say "we don't know anything, but the one thing we are sure of, the one thing we have all come together without a shadow of a doubt, is that no crime was committed on UVA grounds."
awesome work.
@ ****
"Absent another attack, the best chance for catching this guy is for someone to recognize the composite sketch generated after the Fairfax crime to which he has been linked, yet there is no sketch in this article and no direct and easy link to one?"
_____
There's a photo slideshow, right there on the left side of the article, with numbered pictures. Pic # 6 is the composite sketch you refer to.
Thank you, Ms. Stuart, for the most accurate, cogent report to date of the events surrounding Morgan's murder. This article was well-crafted and noticeably absent the sometimes inadvertent emotion that can veil the intended message--one of information critical to ultimate resolution of this case. I remain cautiously hopeful that your article will help to spur the one clue that will solve this case and take this individual off the streets.
Thank you so much for this wonderful article Ms. Stuart. I have followed Morgan's story from the moment I read that she was missing. May your very well written article, jog someone's memory of something they witnessed on the night of October 17, 2009. And may that person step forward, to give the tip, that leads to the arrest of Morgan Harrington's murderer.
Courteney,
Your journalistic talent shines once again! THANK YOU for staying on the story, for digging for new info and for keeping the victim in the news. Hopefully, someone will make that call to give that one tip that will take this monster off the streets.
Excellent reporting by Ms. Stuart as usual.
I just wish these details about Morgan's movements and interactions around JPJ was presented in this clear and honest format about 15 months ago.
And the comments about several people offering her assistance that night and her refusing help, that should be understood.
Too many false assumptions and false indictments to this community that "no one offered to help her", when in fact (for whatever reason) in her mental state she was presenting herself as belligerant and erratic to many good people that wanted to help her out.
And finally, FINALLY, it gets in print that access to the location of her remains was possible and probable from either Red Hill or Blandemar.
Again, thank you Ms. Stuart.
Thank you, Courtney, for providing these extra nuggets and insights into the events of that fateful night. Nature abhors a vacuum, but the rumor mill thrives on it; in the absence of facts, rampant and often irresponsible speculation can ensue.
That's generally harmless -- unless you're one of the poor souls unfairly dragged into the harsh and fickle spotlight of the blogosphere to be defamed, maligned, and accused by anonymous cyber sleuths trying to prove the wild theory du jour -- in which case it must STINK. But I digress.
That was a thoroughly enjoyable read and hopefully has righted the wrong-headed thinking and stubbornness of those who refuse to even entertain the facts presented by the police---that Morgan was seen hitch hiking, or that she could well have innocently lost her purse and cell phone battery. In clearing up some of the common misconceptions about what happened that night, you have performed a major public service, and perhaps spared those beleaguered innocents who have become "the usual suspects" another turn on the wheel. Kudos to you!
So.....New Years can come in February! The cork on the champagne bottle has been uncorked. There finally is a real journalist who can speak to the people and also speak to the facts of this case.. Courteney thank you for instilling a renewed surge of enthusiasm for some of that have been loyal readers and followers of this case.
Hopefully your excellent prose will help to progress this case further. KUDOS.
Yes! What a story! We are super lucky to have Ms. Stuart's talent.
Can you imagine what a few individuals like those of THe Hook staff could do for Charlottesville,
in combination with, say, 1500 engaged citizens, willing to take to the streets?
Say you didn't want a freeway cut through parkland into the middle of our city?....
People, on their feet, could have stopped it,--for good.
You say you don't want more subsidized millions going to corrupt, old-economy projects
at the whim of crony developers?....
Just stand in the way.
Everybody's so paralyzed to get in anyone's face. University town.
It's like nobody here has kids, nobody to answer to.
Thanks Courteney for another great article. Through you, VSP has cleared up a lot of things and filled in a few holes. It's good to read something I've felt all along, that many people that night DID try to help Morgan, and would have had she not refused, or been determined to get wherever it was she wanted to go. I'm sure all the witnesses who came that close to changing the course of the evening wish, in hindsight, that they had done more. That's a heavy burden to carry, I feel for them, too. I think Charlottesville has taken a lot misplaced blame for Morgan's murder, when everyone I know here is devastated by her death and heartbroken for her family. How can we "spit out" the murderer when have no idea who he is or where he came from? People here DO want to help, and it's reassuring to read that VSP has not given up one bit.
Thank you for this article that finally provides some additional details on what happened that night. I am completely dumbfounded as to why this detailed account was not released sooner. It does not seem to contain any information that would jeopardize a prosecution and some of it may have been helpful to other potential witnesses. Unfortunately I still feel there is too much being withheld. What harm would it do to tell us if her debit/ATM card was used after she left the arena. I have to assume it was otherwise why not just say it hasn't been used. . If it was used, letting the public no where and when would almost certainly bring new leads.
Courteney, once again you cut to the chase and present a concise, well written article clearing up points that have become blurred and dispelling some of the myriad of rumors that have surrounded this case. The new information and well-crafted presentation of the facts clearly outlines the case and renews my faith that the investigation is moving forward and a resolution will be found. The City of Charlottesville is blessed to have a journalist of your caliber and integrity in their midst. Your professionalism and dedication shine through as a constant beacon to the Harringtons and all who want closure for the them and justice for Morgan. To you I extend a hearty "Atta Girl."
Yes, Thank you Courteney. There is obviously more than meets the eye in this case. Glad you were able to report...hopefully it will generate some local discussion, which is what I think is needed in order to cinch this case. Thank you to everyone who cares about keeping Charlottesville's streets safe....and remember ...Girls Beware!
OMG -- Great article, again, Courtney -- this is award-winning journalism at its best -- and not just on the state level, but national level, as well. I absolutely understand that it had to have taken LE time to gather and vett the facts now presented here to the public for the first time -- however -- I have to echo others' thoughts on wishing this was released sooner --
Suz said it so well about dragging innocent people thru the ever-growing rumor mill --
but also releasing the info about how JPJ didn't just turn her away -- they warned her prior to going out -- Morgan bit her fingernails, the statement that her ticket was in pieces in the bottom of her purse makes sense, and especially if she were impaired and nervous about getting in, dropping her phone, which may have caused the back -- and the battery -- to fall out; the possibility of the camera being lost inside JPJ -- then someone out there has it --
Sorry, call me bad all you want, but I still do not give the so-called friends a pass -- advising her to try to sneak in thru the smoking area -- when they should have been getting their butts outta their seats and "walking" toward the door and speaking with persons in authority to resolve the issue instead of trying to sneak around -- maybe Morgan would be alive today. "Sneaking in the smoking area" is the thought of a 5th grader, not young people who are in college. Were they, too, perhaps impaired in some way and were afraid they'd get in some kind of trouble ? Then I have the picture of one of the more "press vocal" of "The nine" standing under the sign for the Morgan Harrington shuttle on the day of the Nov. search with her thumb stuck out mocking Morgan HH'g -- and how they were partying and chucking booze -- while they are under-aged -- under the 2-4-1 sign 2 freaking weeks later -- these are not the actions of heart-broken friends -- but of immature frenemies -- they can get all the tatoos they want -- hopefully it will remind them every single day of their lives friends in trouble come first -- always !!
And thank God for this article, Courtney, and since it is a day for revelation -- perhaps this post will stop the rampant speculation -- which I have done my best to clear up over and over -- I did not ever once see Morgan -- I am not LE's secret witness -- I was not put on a "gag-order" by LE -- because I don't know anything -- unfortunately -- The car I saw pulled over had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Morgan -- it was on the onramp to Interstate 64 -- approximately 5 miles and at least 10 mins. away from confirmed sightings of Morgan, if VSP's new timeframe is accurate; that car was "already" pulled over, stopped, the driver was out and was conversing with whomever was in the backseat -- and that "whomever" was NOT Morgan -- I've said this a dozen times.
I stopped posting publically because I began to doubt certain information being brought forth as "inside info" or "I know the truth of this," -- then when I learned that certain information was absolutely a bold-face lie I felt betrayed -- but also enlightened -- it was then I made the decision to stop making public posts, but to carry on Morgan's flame and fight for justice in a closed facebook family -- but there, we were also betrayed -- while these have been hard lessons for me to learn -- this terrible event has given me also beautiful lessons -- the dignity of the H's in the face of this horrendous event -- their taking this tragedy and bearing their souls to the public -- often to receive simply horrible public postings in response -- ie, "she got what she deserved" -- that horrible church protesting saying it was God's will their beloved child was brutally murdered -- I have gained life-long friends and forged wonderful relationships with others across this country, and even the globe. With Mr. Bass's full knowledge and permission, another dedicated Morgan supporter and I planted a perennial memorial on Anchorage Farm, with the hopes those plants will blossom and grow in the honor of her short life. The H's faced the property in the harsh cold of winter -- but in the spring and fall, it is breath-takingly beautiful --
Mr. Bass did not kill Morgan -- nor did his daughter, Jenny -- Jenny is an artist and made those type of "scroll" drawings and images many times in the past -- the house fire has absolutely nothing to do with Morgan -- it was a huge wind storm, which caused the flames to ignite and burn more rapidly than it would have under normal weather conditions -- that same storm caused Mr. Bass -- and the lawn company to be on his property that next day cleaning up storm debris -- were it not for that storm, Morgan may have never been found -- and the thing about Mr. Bass -- he is aware of all the negative publicity and all the rampant false speculation about he and his family -- but he is the father of daughters and at an age where you become reflective of your life -- he expressed to me more than once how his heart breaks for the Harringtons and the sadness he feels that Morgan did not have the chance at life - to make her mistakes and to live out her joys. He never once referred to Morgan as "she," but always respectfully used her name. He protects her field from the prying eyes of the public and the media. I like Mr. Bass.
I believe posters' hearts and intentions are of the highest, but I ask people before conjuring up wild scenarios and connections where none exist to think it thru to the next few steps and see if another scenario presented as the facts may as well be accurate --
sorry to be so long-winded, Court, but lastly I have to say to your first poster, "Really" -- I don't know what motivated you to post what you did -- whether you are lonely and wanted attention -- or whether you're just mean. But your words do not and cannot hurt the Harringtons. Mrs. H stated it so bluntly when she stated: our daughter is murdered, dead, gone from this earth; there is nothing more hurtful than that.
I believe the H's when they say their concern is for the next family, the next daughter or son, who may become this person's next victim -- their concern is for the next daughter or son on any college campus who believes they are safe -- they want to bring awareness of the dangers which exist to our nation's young people. Morgan's ashes have traveled to her beloved Tibet, where she had planned to go this past August; they are part of the foundation of a school for orphaned children, many of whose parents lost their lives to brutality -- just like Morgan --
So, Really, if your intent of your post was to have some attention drawn to you -- negative postings about Morgan and the H's is unnecessary -- you see, they care about you, as well -- about your life and your safety -- even in light of your disrespect to them and to Morgan.
Morgan had her warts -- but we all have warts and had them when we were college-aged -- but we will never know the woman this beautiful spirit would have grown into
and for the record, I am "NOT" the private sleuth Courtney interviewed who went onto AF thru the locked gates. I was there by invitation and permission.
I still believe in God, and I still pray God's peace for this family, and swift justice to the persons responsible for her murder !!!
Courtney thank you again for this well written article detailing the events of that night. It is wonderful to see someone of your stature keeping Morgan's story alive. We all thank you for that. I am grateful to VSP for opening up and setting the record straight with a true account of the events that took place with Morgan after she exited the building. I am so happy to know the case is still alive. I have always felt the first step to solving this case was getting the truth out. So many stories have been passed around. I am hoping that this will stimulate new leads for VSP and that will lead to an arrest of the person/persons that did this to Morgan. Now is not the time for judgement. I cannot imagine the pain the Harrington's have experienced. I do not think there is any greater pain than the loss of a child especially in this way. So again thank you Courtney for this excellant article. I hope and pray for peace and closure for the Harrington's and someday to have justice for Morgan.
Still praying for the capture of the monster who did this. Thank you for a very well written account.
This story was riveting; I could not stop reading once I started. I've followed Morgan's story from the beginning and it was so good to have so many questions finally answered. I, too, do not understand the long silence on every detail, it seemed to leave room for rampant speculation.
Morgan apparently had too much to drink that night, and from the sounds of it, it was something she was not accustomed to. What might have been done to protect her that night? I realize she rebuffed offers but maybe someone should have called the authorities for her own good. I will sure keep that in mind, myself.
Skyler, great comment, I think I understand just what you are saying, it's good to hear from you, you are a person of integrity.
Thanks so much for this story, Courteney, and thanks to LE for sharing this info with us. I pray all the time for the capture of the beast who did this and now I can pray more knowledgably. I hope that LE will test the DNA for a closer idea of the person's ancestry so that idle rumors can be put to rest and we can find this person once and for all.
Has anyone considered that she may have been dropped from an airplane. Her body was terribly broken up, and the area where she was found is on the flight path of a plane taking off southbound from CHO
Lis- yes it is a great story. Courteney- terrific reporting and writing.
This is such a sad story. Has no one wondered why 14 young men who witnessed her erratic behavior didn't think to at least call campus police to report her? How about the people that passed her on the road? A quick 911 call to report a lone woman walking wouldn't have hurt. It sounds like she would have still been acting strangely when she was seen walking along the road. Hindsight is 20/20 but sometimes it is best to be a busy-body and just make a call. Could turn out to be nothing or it could turn out to save someone's life. Who knows what would have happened if a call had been made? It comes down to everyone needs to help keep our communities safe. I'm not blaming any of these people for contributing to her disappearance, because no one can predict what they would do when faced with this situation, myself included. I just hope that this helps all of us take another look at how, in this age of advanced communications, we have the power to intervene -even if it leads to nothing.
Skyler, I read your posts on the blog site (won't name it) and always wondered why you stopped posting. I never believed it was because you were coerced in any way or that you were afraid for your own safety. I'm glad you have set the record straight. You sound like a wonderful person and you have given us a picture of Mr. Bass that I think the public badly needs. That he allowed you to plant the garden as a memorial to Morgan is absolutely wonderful. I hope you and your son are doing well. I hope others who read your post will take your words to heart. Dragging anyone through the mud with not one iota of proof is absolutely horrible no matter the circumstances To do so when the crime is murder is beyond despicable. I hope everyone who reads your post will think before posting wild speculations and "scenarios." A young woman lost her life at the hands of a monster. This is a very real event, it is not a made for TV movie. Real lives and reputations are involved. I say to all, if you know or suspect ANYONE, go to law enforcement. There's no grand conspiracy to not find the killer. Just one seemingly very insignificant piece of information could be the key.
I am moved to tears by this article. Thanks for doing whatever you can to keep this tragedy fresh in the minds of our community. I have nothing but admiration for the strength of the Harrington Family. I feel that Morgan didn't die in vain. There are so many lessons learned from this heartbreaking case.
Oldpilot, This has been suggested before...on Nancy Grace I believe. Better yet, perhaps the perp was a sky-diver and just forgot to give Morgan a parachute.
Thank you Courteney. It is refreshing to read an article laying the known facts out for us. The conjecture and rumor mongering citizens of Charlottesville and law enforcement have endured for over a year can hopefully be laid to rest with this informative piece. I hope the newly publicized information leads the right person to the police with the information needed to solve this crime.
Courteney: Thank you for this excellent article.
Skyler: Thank you for your heartfelt comments. I was especially pleased to read your comments about Mr. Bass. He is a kind and conscientious citizen whose heart clearly goes out to the Harringtons. He seems to share their concern about the safety of our young people.
We live in a country where we don't want to call the cops on women because they are walking alone at night and students don't want to call them to arrest other students for being drunk or high. It probably didn't cross their minds. In this case, it would have been far better if she had been arrested, but that is hindsight. Thankfully these events are very rare. If they become more frequent, maybe people will have to change. The harringtons should be praised for their efforts to use this tragedy to help prevent these terrible events from happening to others. They have shown incredible courage and selflessness throughout. It does seem though that instead of focusing so much on things like arena policies designed in part to stop people from leaving to get drunk and do drugs and then reentering, the focus should be as much or more on personal responsibility/dangers of hitchhiking. It took 15 months for this info to come out and I understand that the police want to respect the family, but it could have been a useful teaching tool for parents sending their kids off to college if they had been able to talk to them more thoroughly about the decisions/actions that helped make morgan so vulnerable that night.
I wish I could say “he is still here” as the title says. I can say he was here. He has a connection here. And that is what must be found. Otherwise he will be found only by another’s senseless murder. At least now, I hope, we can concentrate on finding this man, “sketch,” instead of concentrating on all the speculative possibilities of Morgan’s ill fated journey that night. It also serves no purpose to point fingers and blame or senselessly drag innocent people through the mud; it will not bring a murderer to account for his heartless and evil actions. Thank you, Skyler for your post here. I appreciate that you said it to the world. Hope some read it very carefully.
The people in North Garden would gladly hand this murderer over if they knew him. I think though, VSP may have to cast their search farther than North Garden to find him, perhaps to nearby communities in Albemarle, perhaps to the school district of North Garden, perhaps even to the far past, where his connection may ultimately lie. I know it is a challenge to VSP to cover all these areas. I am so glad that finally they have given a concise accounting of the events of that evening and Anchorage Farm so that if there is someone who might even know a tiny thing, maybe that someone will know now it might be significant. Even the tiniest recollection may be the connection to find a murderer.
I hope that VSP will find that connection soon. Perhaps this excellent piece of Courteney Stuart’s will help spark the memories that might give them the connection they need.
I also hope the Harringtons find peace and justice for Morgan soon. And, women of Charlottesville and Albemarle, be aware. We can’t live in a bubble of complacency anymore.
Whoever posts as "really" got flamed I guess for calling the family "nutcase", but what he/she said about what people actually "know" was not off-base. After all, if They "know" the killer is still here that would imply actual knowledge: ie, that they know who he is, which clearly they don't. So, actually nobody really knows anything; they simply suspect and that's as far as in goes until maybe the killer gets caught....If they have his DNA, the best shot is he'll end up in the State's database and get linked via a cold hit; that's the likely outcome in cases of stranger abduction murder cases.
As for the family being "nutcase" I'd venture to say this sort of thing would make any family "nutcase" in the sense that the horror of having one's child murdered in such a vile manner would of course lead to all manner of grasping at straws and being obsessed about finding some closure. That's just what this sort of thing does to families under these circumstances.
I have re read the Hook article again this morning, and I have to say that although I am thrilled that there is new information about this case that has been put out for the public. Also VSP is talking publically about the case, along with all this new information, certainly reveals more details about how REALLY, and TRULY alone Morgan was that night.
There were 14 men, a kickee, 3 friends, 16,000 concert goers, A dad and a daughter, Multi levels of Security, EMT's, apparently students, a book keeper multiple eye witnesses, and even Morgans own car was there that night.
Yet Morgan Harrington was still all alone? How could that be?
Was she drinking? YES. Acting odd? Unusual behavior? YES. Irriational? Did she refuse help? Was she having trouble walking?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that ALL the people that saw Morgan, all the people that came into contact with her, CLEARLY new something was wrong.
But, forwhat ever reason, no one took the next step to intervene to help her.
Sadly, that night, out of all those people that could have helped Morgan, didn't. If just one person would have helped, JUST 1, the entire course of events that night would have changed. Morgan probably would be alive today
There was only one person that stopped for beautiful Morgan that night, and unfortunately that was the wrong person.
Personal responsibility is one thing, but what about each persons responsibility
for compassion for another human being that is clearly in need of help and distress?
Perhaps we all need to re asses our own values and how we treat our fellow man.
How would any of you feel if this was your loved one?
Think about it.
This is a wonderful article Court!!!!! God bless the Harrington's and may God watch over you and keep you safe!!!!
It's like Courtney answered all my questions about what happened.
I'm a psychic who has been looking at this case for a long time now. What I get on this killer is that he is a night brother, meaning he is black AND that he has a white brother who may have died. His brother may have killed him if even by accident. I feel sure about this and wouldn't put it anywhere if I wasn't sure.
I so want this man caught!!!!!
I could be wrong but I do get a lot of stuff right. Only by the grace of God!!!! If I get his riddles right.
Golly, Ginger. You been hitting the Kool-aid? Kooky stuff, gal.
How I pray this case will soon be solved and Morgan didn't die in vain. Virginia's, as well as everywhere else, kids are becoming the victims of such senseless crimes way to often.
This is an extraordinarily well-written, -researched, and -documented article. Let's hope it leads to the apprehension of the perp. It's a sad story. Commenters, lay off the family and the victim. Only if one is the parent of a daughter could one truly understand what these folks are going through. Compassion is requisite here. Their character is no in question here; whodunit is the question.
This article doesn't mention, and thus whitewashes, the fact that the government has been pricking the heels of every child born in a hospital with or without the parents knowledge and consent, taking the blood, freezing it, and sending it the N.I.H and U.N. for eugenics purposes since the early 1970s. Unless the person linked to the DNA evidence is from a country that isn't part of the U.N. or over the age of 38, the government has had this person's DNA on record since he/she was born. Just google "baby's blood at birth database" and you'll find dozens of articles about the situation. Of course, they only admit in the U.S.A they've been taking blood from babies without telling the parents since the late 90's and since 1980 in the U.K., so don't expect the government to help solve the case by allowing the police to access the U.N. / N.I.H. secret dna database which almost certainly has the same dna, and a name to go with it.
Well written article which details known events . Essentially the only material new piece of info since i first heard of this tragedy on Nancy Grace has been the revelation of the Fairfax rapist connection .Far fetched scenario's dreamed up and posted publicly of what happened do a diservice to the common sense and techniques of LE . The H's have been astounding in their strength,dignity,and example to others in how to deal with unspeakable sensless tragedy . Skyler,s post here confirmed by experience with the blog run by a person who claims to operate by the ethics of "the end justifies the means" . Lies ,innuendo ,and character assination of individuals and organizations are the known problems there . What else ? The attempt to descredit the character of Mr Bass was sufficient tip off from the get go ......
So, where does the discovery of her Pantera shirt fit into all of this?
dawn, i read this entire thread to see if anyone else mentioned that shirt, and there your comment was, the last of more than 50! i am very, very curious about that shirt. courtney--if you are reading this could you please weigh in. was the shirt mentioned on the "media tour" you took? when they found morgan's body and recognized her clothes, no one announced that her shirt was missing. later, they find it...laid out on a hedge on a well-traveled street, as i recall. i don't know what to think. would someone other than her killer have ended up with her shirt? why? if it was the killer, what does his placing the shirt there tell us about his profile. serial killers keep trophies (the T-shirt, the necklace), but what about a killer who taunts the police so blatantly? and what about the necklace they recently said they are combing the pawn shops for? it's not diamonds, but crystals--not all that appealing to a pawnbroker. why wait a year before announcing this?
also, it seems like they should mention if morgan had drugs in her system (rather than keep that quiet to protect the parents). maybe someone is aware of a dealer who might have sold her something that night...a long shot, but making that public could lead to a tip.
i am also curious about the source of the DNA they are working with. On her clothes? Under her fingernails? Was it also on the T-shirt?
my fervent hope is that the many clues they do have, plus those they are withholding from the public, will allow this crime to be solved. and i truly wish this would become the cautionary tale that it should be. it hasn't, though. almost weekly, UVa schoolwide emails go out reporting that UVa students (women and men) have been assaulted while walking alone at 11 p.m., 1 a.m., 3 a.m. CALL A CAB. It's not expensive, and most of them take credit cards.
sorry about my omitting so many question marks. i was too excited to punctuate properly.
Is it correct to assume, based on the wording of this article, that the two individuals who allegedly witnessed Morgan curtsy have not been cleared by LE?
Courteney, it is readily apparent from the accolades above that your journalistic skills--particularly as they relate to this case--are welcome and most refreshing to the reading public. It is equally notable that the VSP clearly hold you in well-deserved, high regard as they both: a) specifically extended an invitation to you to attend and be witness to Dan and Gil's visit on January 25, 2011 to AF to view the site of the recovery of Morgan's remains; and, more importantly b) shared with you the detailed information that you have in turn shared with the public in this article. VSP's actions in this regard speak volumes about their obvious respect for you.
I would submit that your ability to discern fact from fiction, write from a point of (necessary) objectivity, refrain from casting judgment about those things outside your purview, e.g., the investigative process, and facility with the written word as evidenced in this article--all these garner profound respect and admiration for a job well done.
As Suz pointed-out in her earlier post, you have performed a major public service, and for that I--and many others--are most grateful. [Thanks also go out to Skyler for her heartfelt post that likewise offered an opportunity to dispel so many ill-advised rumors.]
@Amy L: The shirt was mentioned on the media tour, but police wouldn't offer any theories on who might have placed it there or why or even when. In response to my and other media member's questions about the shirt, police stressed that they are focusing on the location of Anchorage Farm more than the location of the shirt. I don't know why they waited so long to reveal information about the shirt. One explanation given to me (and which I wrote at some point months back) is that DNA results took a long time to come back.
@JAB The witnesses who reported Morgan's curtsy are not suspects. To clarify, all the witnesses Special Agent Cappuzzo mentioned on the tour and those that I have reported on have been interviewed by police and are not suspects.
@Observer: Thank you (and other posters) for your compliments. I really appreciate all of you reading and weighing in. I do want to make sure people understand I wasn't the only media member on that tour of the Arena and Anchorage Farm. It was open to all local media, and most of the local outlets (TV, print, radio) sent a reporter. I tried to make my report as extensive and in depth as I could based both on the tour and my independent reporting, but I don't have any special access to police, so I don't want to give that impression. Like all of you, I hope there will be more to report on this case soon.
--Courteney Stuart
So good to "hear" from past FindMorgan and Blink regulars that have quit posting as much as they once did such as Skyler and Ginger. I never posted much on the sites, but I was/am a dedicated reader and came to feel as if I "knew" you guys if that makes sense. I miss seeing your thoughts on the case, so it was nice to read them here in the comment section of Courtney's phenomenal article, which I must say is an award-winning piece if I've ever read one. You are a fine journalist, and "The Hook" is so very lucky to have you. Your integrity is evident in every piece you publish, and I deeply respect your efforts to provide anonymity to sources as to avoid throwing them into the out-of-control rumor mill regarding this case. All bloggers, etc., in my humble opinion, should take notice and follow your lead.
I, myself, have a few thoughts I'd like to share as someone who has diligently followed Morgan's case from the first few days of hearing of her going missing. I desperately want this case solved and that SOB who did this to be locked up. Some of my thoughts might be offensive to some, so apologize in advance if that is the case.
It seems as if Morgan rebuffed quite a few genuine offers for help or assistance. I would daresay most college kids wouldn't call the police if they saw someone inebriated, because that would just feel "wrong" to them to potentially get someone in legal trouble (i.e. public intoxication, etc.) for some thing that is VERY common among college-aged individuals. Binge drinking was even the norm at my CONSERVATIVE, PRIVATE, CHRISTIAN college--sadly it just comes with the age, although we had to be more covert with our behavior. It happens everywhere, folks. Most individuals, like myself, outgrow this behavior as I have no doubt Morgan would have if that despicable individual wouldn't have robbed her of her life that night.
I feel like the ppl that saw her that night in the parking lots, concert, the father/daughter,etc. have taken a lot of unnecessary heat from the public. I feel for the individuals that saw her and interacted with her that night, because you know they live with the regret and the "What If's" if they would have called the police on her that night. I honestly don't know what I would have done in that situation, so I try not to judge them. There is only so much you can do if someone doesn't accept your assistance.
As for those judging the basketball players and other gentlemen, I must say in today's society men also have to be careful of the situations they put themselves in. A lot of high profile cases involving women falsely accusing men of rape, etc. have made a lot of decent men hesitant to provide rides, etc. to women in duress due to the fear of being falsely accused. I can emphasize with why they may be leery of giving a woman behaving strangely a ride--no matter how obviously beautiful she may have been. I am sure, in hindsight, they wish they would have given her a ride or called her a cab. However, if she was as drunk as it appears she was they could have feared her vomiting in their cars--a stranger's puke in my car is even enough to make a good citizen like myself think twice about giving a drunk person a ride.
I also want to defend Morgan's actions that night. I think she must have been way more intoxicated than she intended to be that night. I can remember once during a happy hour in New Orleans, I imbibed drinks that were triple the alcohol content they would have normally contained due to the happy hour drink special. I had my normal 3 drink limit that was really like having six or seven. I was so drunk I couldn't stand up. I blanked out, and according to friends scared a casino worker on the public transit to the point she ran the other direction due to me telling her how beautiful I thought she was (I'm a straight female, so this was out-of-character for me) Thank God my friends were there to protect me. I think Morgan must have had a similar experience with her intoxication level, yet she was on her own trying to navigate around JPJ and the adjacent parking lots.
That brings me to my last point--Morgan's so-called friends. Dan and Gil try so very hard to keep Morgan's name and story in the news. It is no doubt exhausting for them to constantly have to think of new ways to generate media interest in a case that until recently no new info was known about. They let the media document very emotional times out of hope the headlines will spark that one tip or one brave person that can solve this and start the wheels of justice turning. Can you imagine the press it would generate if these friends would talk or just answer some very basic questions about the events leading up to her disappearance? Why won't they do this? If not for Morgan, for her grieving parents who fight with everything in them to keep her story out there? In the beginning, Gil explained that Morgan's friends were reluctant to to speak to the media for innocent reasons such as school work--well breaks from college have went by, summer vacations, the anniversary of her going missing and the retrieval of her lifeless body from Anchorage farm--yet no statement from friends sans Sarah's cryptic press conference extremely early on in the case. I don't for a second think they are guilty, but why are they so steadfast in their silence?
In closing, Dan, Gil, Alex you are in my thoughts and prayers every single day. Your strength and commitment to saving the next girl is nothing short of inspirational considering the gravity of your loss and the intense pain and grief you no doubt experience all the while soldiering on to find justice and keep our communities safer. 2-4-1
I spoke about the case and this article on Coy Barefoot's radio program last night. For anyone interested in listening, here's the link: http://bit.ly/flpNOP
Courteney, you are so gracious to answer questions from your readers. Might I pose one more? Do you know whether the police consider the unknown "Oxford Row rapist" from the 2005 assault in Fairfax to be either a "suspect" or a "person of interest" in Morgan's case?
You've undoubtedly noticed a tendency among your readers to parse and measure every word spoken by officials, as if trying to suss out some hidden meaning. I know it's troubling to some that there have been no police statements that use the definitive word "suspect" or the less definitive, media-friendly term (unofficial though it is) "POI" ---only that there is a forensic connection between Morgan's case and the Fairfax case. Have you heard the police refer to him as either a suspect or POI in Morgan's case? If not, have you ever asked why those terms have not been used? People take the absence of these terms, add it to the initial "delay" (oft read as reluctance) in releasing information about the connection to the Fairfax rape, and multiply it by the fact that the police sketch wasn't prominently featured during the January 25 tour, and come up with conclusions like "the police obviously aren't sure he has anything to do with Morgan's case; maybe his dna was found somewhere nearby on a can or a cigarette butt, but they don't really think that it has anything to do with Morgan."
You have been so incredibly helpful in tidying up loose ends --- and as you can see from the outpouring of gratitude in the comments section here, the small, clarifying nuances you've shared thus far are so greatly appreciated by your readers. Could you shed some light on this for us?
Thanks for answering my question and confirming that the two individuals who allegedly witnessed Morgan's alleged curtsy are NOT suspects. I just want to clarify that when I initially read your article, I didn't infer that they were suspects or not cleared as the others were. However,I read some other readers' comments (at another location) that seemed to think the wording insinuated these individuals were not among the eyewitnesses cleared as suspects by LE. I began to think maybe I was missing something, so I decided to ask. Thanks again for your clarification and prompt response.
Courteney; the kudos you've witnessed thus far are well-deserved. I apologize if my earlier post was unclear. I was aware that, as evidenced by other tv/media coverage of the January 25, 2011 tour, you were not alone but were among other media representatives who were invited by VSP to attend.
You likewise do not possess special access to sensitive VSP/LE information, as that would be counter-intuitive to established investigative technique and could unwittingly increase the potential for compromise of the investigation. From your article and the information shared with the media during the tour, it is clear that LE releases certain information at certain times for reasons specific to the investigation. While understandably frustrating to the reading public, there are bonafide reasons for this approach.
I wished to convey in my earlier comments that your detailed, objective analysis and reporting as seen in this article have made for the singular, most compelling--and to my mind, beneficial--chronicle of the events of that fateful evening.
Concentrate on finding the Swarovski necklace. Put pictures of it up on Billboards with the simple words "Have you seen this necklace?" Also have "America's Most Wanted" run a story on it.
Totally agree Bilfar...totally
Has the police released anything other than witnesses to prove Morgan was at the concert? If the video is poor why don't they release it anyway? Did they check the tickets against the video to see her arrived? In the absence of people who saw her there isn't anything saying she was realy there. Why would she be worried about her camera and dumping her purse looking for it? Wasn't that the least of her worries? How does this person know she was looking for her camera? Did she say so? None of this makes any sense. She was so intoxicated she could hardly walk but she kicked some guy and curtsied?
Finally. Like somebody opened windows and the cool breeze moves the curtains..slightly.
Morgan is gone. Nothing we say or do will ever bring her back to us. Yes us. We who have come to love her as though she was ours.
Courtney..bravo. Well done. Factual and informative.
Skyler you made Mr. Bass real to us. Most of us never realized his pain of finding this beautiful young woman on his farm. How the world would perceive him and his family.
We may seem like bloggers to the rest of the world but I would like to believe that for a moment we were the Wind Beneath The Harringtons Wings. Hopefully our posts and our searching on FM gave them some knowledge that we cared and our concern was to find who did this to Morgan.
Being a fatalist I shall always believe this was Morgans destiny. When you believe like I do the coming together of this tragedy tells the story of fate. It is what it is.
Hopefully that fate of Morgans will move in ways that other women and men will be protected and will bring awareness to others of just how mean the streets can be. Morgans death could come to save many others.
Again, thank you Courtney, for an article...well done.
"Somewhere else" has the two who witnessed MH by the portable toilets painted as suspects . These two join the ever growing legion of quasi_named suspects by that site in this case . The slander continues. We have a classic situation where tragedy has been exploited by the slippery shady element for the purpose of scratching out some revenue .
Yes the Bloodhounds must have gotten a substantial patch of MH's scent on the grassy area where many suspect she was initially assaulted at Lannigan field .She had a fresh wound from falling that continued to seep . Consequently there must have been droppings there of her actual blood that the blood hounds could have/would have identified . Would this be a situation where co_mingling of the assailant's DNA with her blood be a possibility ?
Well done! Great article. I am sure the Harrington's are somewhat relieved that more details are making their way out of VSP. I am wondering outloud if there is some relation to the fact that the Fairfax victim was coming home from Giant Food, and Morgan's scent was picked up at FOAN. I understand FOAN to be a specialty food store, but perhaps these two stores go through the same distributor for food/drink delivery?
Also wondering what that other event the BB players attended was. And are the BIB also Basketball players?
Courteney, Thank you, once again, for another great article about Morgan, and the quest for JUSTICE! Keeping Morgan's name out there, is appreciated, and necessary, in order to find the remaining answers needed.
And to Dan, Gil and Alex, Your courage and grace, in the midst of your own horrific nightmare, is truly remarkable! Your immense love, generous spirits and never ending
quest for truth and justice, not only for your girl-but the next girl, will always be remembered!
Good to see so many of you still here! I look forward to the day that we meet again
soon...in the courtroom!! Save me a seat!
Love and Prayers,
Thank you for this informative article Courteney. Morgan and her family know that we all will never give up hope and pray for this murderer to be caught. My biggest prayer is that Familial DNA will one day be used and be successful.
Pippi said "Being a fatalist I shall always believe this was Morgans destiny. When you believe like I do the coming together of this tragedy tells the story of fate. It is what it is.
Hopefully that fate of Morgans will move in ways that other women and men will be protected and will bring awareness to others of just how mean the streets can be. Morgans death could come to save many others."
Respectfully, Pippi, I cannot begin to understand what you are saying here. Aside from the fact the remarks make me very angry, the remarks also make absolutely no sense to me.
IF it was Morgan's FATE to be brutally murdered and placed at Anchorage Farm, how could this prevent someone else from being murdered? How could her death SAVE anyone? IF her death was predestined (fated), then so is all the other deaths/murders to come in the future FATED. How could all the information/protection/awareness in the world help anyone who was destined to die in a horrible way? Please explain, if there is any explanation, which I doubt.
Crabber, I also am happy to hear they are working the Familial DNA angle. Since the murderers are probably over 38, their DNA will not be in the system, but IF they have any offspring, their DNA will be on record. (((all they have to do is secretely find the names, then
arrest them for something else)))
To really: You said "What do they mean "he's still here"? Has this been confirmed at all? Why would they even say that? This is getting out of hand. Nutcase family"
You sound as if you KNOW the murderers are either NOT in town, OR they are in town, but you wonder if there is any proof of that fact? Just curious, which is it? (so far, this is a fair question, if you do in fact know better than others)
Now, the part about "this is getting out of hand". I do not understand your point. You either hope the murderers will not get caught and everyone will just forget about the case,
OR you prefer to hide your head in the sand and pretend the world is all nice. Which is it?
If you know where the killers are, perhaps you also know where the silver necklace is? Was it one of the murder weapons?
Now to the last bit of your statement...."nutcase family" I wonder what criteria you are using to judge this family? Is it by your own family? If so, I would like to meet them. I would like to know what kind of parenting skills were used to raise a person such as yourself.
[Yet Morgan Harrington was still all alone? How could that be?
Was she drinking? YES. Acting odd? Unusual behavior? YES. Irriational? Did she refuse help? Was she having trouble walking?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that ALL the people that saw Morgan, all the people that came into contact with her, CLEARLY new something was wrong.]
For large concerts of this nature it is not unusual to run into drug addled or obviously intoxicated people walking around.
Also, it is far easier to sit here and say someone should have helped her, but what would you have done?
She wouldn't want to go with you to the police or security so that isn't realistic, and you would have to detain her while the police or medics responded to your call. If someone doesn't want to be helped, is acting belligerent as well as very odd, people are not going to take all the effort and time in an attempt to help her.
Brian's right. Unfortunately, it turned out that the best outcome for Harrington would have been being picked up for public intoxication, but that's obviously not what college kids attending a concert want to happen to them.
AICBond:
In defense of Pippi, I believe this is Pippi's belief system. She states she is a Fatalist. She is entitled to her opinion , just as you are to yours. Her remarks don't have to make sense to You, they make sense to her . If that makes you angry, so be it.
Simply stated:-- "IF her death was predestined (fated), then so are all the other deaths/murders to come in the future Fated"---YES, that is her belief!
"How could all the information, protection/awareness in the world help anyone who was destined to die in a horrible way?" IT couldn't. That is why she is a "Fatalist"
From a religious aspect : It is God's Plan---written the moment of our birth.
From a spiritual, yet agnostic aspect--What will be will be.
As hard as we try , we cannot change The Plan.
Perhaps what Pippi was trying to say is Morgan's tragic death had to happen to bring awareness to the ones whose lives will be "saved" by warning them of the tragic outcome "WRONG" choices can have.
RUKidding
You say...."Perhaps what Pippi was trying to say is Morgan's tragic death had to happen to bring awareness to the ones whose lives will be "saved" by warning them of the tragic outcome "WRONG" choices can have."
You also do not make any sense. I know what Pippi was trying to say. You say exactly the same thing. IF everything is already preplanned, then peeps will make the wrong choices which lead to their murders no matter what anyone does. You can carry it a step further and say the people who commit the murders are also under this SPELL of predestination. WHY is it their fault then if they murder someone? They were also part of the devine plan!!! I obviously do not believe this. I prefer to have things make sense.
You also state "In defense of Pippi, I believe this is Pippi's belief system. She states she is a Fatalist. She is entitled to her opinion , just as you are to yours. Her remarks don't have to make sense to You, they make sense to her . If that makes you angry, so be it."
I am also entitled to disagree with Pippi, and with you as well. I refuse to just let such ridiculous statements as you and Pippi make go unchallenged.
In this case you really cannot do much about the things I wish to say, since you do not hold the upper hand of being able to ban me!
Brian
You ask what we would have done. This is what I would have done. I would have joined her in her walk to wherever, and talked to her while phoning for help. If possible I would have led her to my car to get a blanket to wrap around her shoulders. It really is not that difficult or complicated to be kind to another person who is in need of help (even if the person is refusing help)
What do you say we all get back to concentrating on only the facts of this case and end all this other stuff that serves no purpose whatsover.
Doesn't this guy look a lot like the sketch of the suspect, from Fairfax rape, that was circulated?
http://www.c-ville.com/index.php?cat=1991704080566501&act=post&pid=12031...
AIC
Fair enough, all I'm saying is it's not as easy as some make it out to be.
As has been said, it is absolutely the fault of her friends to let her go alone. What kind of friends let their extremely drunk/high friend wander around alone by herself? Hard to expect a stranger to look after her when her friends won't. There is no doubt this is something they will have to live with for the rest of their lives.
Just playing detective here, here is the sketch of the suspect. The biggest similarity is the smaller forehead which is kind of unusual for a black male:
http://readthehook.com/67207/cold-hit-police-connect-morgan-harringt...
Could we stop making everyone feel guilty for not helping her out enough? Until October 2009 nothing of this sort had happened in Cville. People drunk at shows and frat parties was expected but there was not a murderer in the mix. I am sure from now in Cville, everybody is on edge and nothing of this nature will ever go unreported.
Brian, when put that way, you are absolutely correct.
AJ, you are also correct.
AJ
Yes, the photo and sketch look a lot alike. Considering the 2005 is an artist rendering, and was done 6 years ago, it could be same person. Six years later the face could be thinner, and the hairline higher. (It was probably not quite that low anyway, and the eyebrows in the sketch would probably not be placed in the eye crease. sorry EV! Interesting note the sketch has the Left eye slightly droopy and in the photo the right eye is quite droopy. Very good job on the mouth (if it is him). The eyebrows, are quite distinctive in the photo (unusual) In the sketch they do show a similarity. The sketch looks more like a person of mixed ethnicity, ie part Arabic (re the forehead) than does the photo.
(I have seen a few peeps whom I thought looked like sketch)
Bilfar: I agree!!!
AJ: The violent sex offender is in the system. They have his DNA. Since they got a cold hit on "sketch" they have his DNA also. I would think in running sketch's DNA through the system the two didn't match.
AICBond February 15th, 2011 | 7:28pm
Brian
You ask what we would have done. This is what I would have done. I would have joined her in her walk to wherever, and talked to her while phoning for help. If possible I would have led her to my car to get a blanket to wrap around her shoulders. It really is not that difficult or complicated to be kind to another person who is in need of help (even if the person is refusing help)
__________________________________________________________________
Maybe that is the approach the killer took too. I don't think many people would do that -- especially not in her age range.
Red
I do not know where you are from, but where I come from, I do not know many people who would not do that, her age range included!
Many people are reported to have offered her help. She clearly didn't want "help" she wanted a ride. In her state, she probably didn't even think she needed help and that is most likely why she didn't accept the many offers it is reported that she received. I am sure those particular individuals wish they had made a phone call, but what would they say, "there's a woman walking around the parking lot?" Would 911 or the police even responded to that? I think raking the folks that encountered her over the coals so frequently is probably why they are so reluctant to reveal their identities and "what they know" to the public in the first place. I am thankfully the police and media have kept their anonymity.
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John, your post presents an unusual and unique perspective. I have limited knowledge of the MK ULTRA program, but would like to know more to determine if it has relevance in Morgan’s case. Can you offer any additional information regarding the involvement of Virginia Tech in the program or do you have any links or resources you could cite that describe the involvement of Universities and/or Hospitals in this covert program? Thanks.
I too have limited knowledge of the MK ULTRA program. Go figure. Some keywords to google search in various combination - MK ULTRA DARPA Kimballton Mine Virginia Tech Mind Control Sueng Hui Cho. Another thing that makes me wonder if the cops/intelligence (often one and the same) did it is comments I read on this site stating that police officers were probably familiar with the Anchorage farm location, having regular parties at a nearby residence to Anchorage farm. It seems unlikely that a black man from Farifax would be familiar with the location.
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SJones, Could you explain who you are referring to when you said "to have atleast two very fine people comment on this article in print is fantastic" ? Not sure which 2 people you mean?
D C Dame
You are a Scientologist?
I am not a Scientologist.
SJones, Are you expressing that you feel the friends of Morgan have been unfairly treated? I hope you will expand on that subject as I have followed this case from afar and did read the magazine expose on the friends. Why do you feel they have remained so silent?
Very simple, they will be the first if there if there is a trial? Did you ever think they were doing as instructed. Perhaps they will deal the ultimate blow in the trial?
Two simple questions:
Claimed pro LE people also still do not believe LE staements as to her thumbing a ride.
If the friends are to be blamed, why not start with ones even closer?
If you go down either path, and stop? Finish the trip, where you end up says...
It is not fair to only pick what makes you feel good inside.
If you open the door, dont just stand there. Take a walk in to the house or just do not knock on that door. The friends deserve the samr respect as Morgan, I know this not popular, but how do people give Morgan a pass, then take her friends and seek to destroy them?
The frends, what would have them do? What could they possibly do to satisfy the masses?
They are young women, they are not girls. Do you really think that they too, are not victims?
They were no more inconnent or guilty than Morgan. Blame the victims?
No one is to blame except the person who picked her up and then killed her.
AJ February 18th, 2011 | 1:23pm
No one is to blame except the person who picked her up and then killed her.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The fewer words the better, AJ thanks, guess I screwed it up.
Again thanks!
SJones and AJ,
I think I do get it. I am learning. I want to ask you, SJones, about a comment you made in an above post. Please explain this to me:
"The sex of the person who turned over the purse shows me not all sources are by themselves are to be taken at 100% face value.'
Are you saying that a male athlete is NOT who you were told earlier had turned in the purse? I do not pretend to know your sources or your level of experience with this investigation. I would like to know what you think about that report.
I appreciate your help as we are hoping for a satisfactory conclusion to this horror. Charlottesville and The Harringtons deserve as much.
It is evident by Special Agent Cappuzzo's refusal to flat out deny that she was under the influence of drugs that she most likely was under the influence of drugs. She didn't deserve to die, and I am in no way blaming the victim. Nobody but sketch alone is responsible for her untimely and brutal death. However, why not let this be a cautionary tale for our young girls that experimenting with mind altering substance can affect your good judgment and influence your decision-making abilities in negative ways. Morgan was such an intelligent young woman--if not for the booze and drugs, she wouldn't have been dropping her purse, hitchhiking,etc. She most likely would have been more aware of her surroundings, etc.
Also I challenge anybody that says she couldn't have possibly kicked Kickee or curtsied to go to a bar and observe some drunk college girls in high heels on a dance floor. They can do moves you see in the music videos, yet when the song stops and they return to their seats they are tripping and falling,etc. They can't walk a straight line. I think some of that was at play with the kick and th curtsy. For whatever reason, I believe both of those sources.
DC Dame February 18th, 2011 | 3:29pm
There is no issue anymore. Courteney knows that was my information, I was flat out wrong.
No way, I am going to so stuborn as to argue with that fact. I pointed it out simple to say, move on, she has helped many to focus on what NOW is in play. Just as so many still hold Morgan would never Thumb a ride. Time for all of us to get with the program. I 100% believe Courteney's words, if she says it without a qualifer, no way, no how do I question her.
But it is perhaps the first time, that I have seen anything contridict that source. But, there is a first time for everything, If I can spit it up, perhaps others can too, lets get on with supporting LE. Stop or petty differences, unile and agree. Perhaps my view of the friends is not well deserved, and I understand that. But, I am sure not going to question Skylers words as to what she brings to any discussion. I know she contributes more in one statement than I could ever do. She has been through hell, no, not like Morgan. But, I kind of understand, see I visited that place. I will never, ever question her, her motives or her believes. The friends, she qualified that as her opinion, I qualify mine, but I will tell you 1 damn thing! I am with her with her 100%. Lets focus on what we now have, I am sick and tired of the thought, that someone out there is taking advantage and getting their jollys off every time a innocent is accused.
I just wish all of us could focus on this updated information. There is not a single one of us that knows what happened. So, educate and learn from what we know. Support LE's request. Show, that it is ok to say hey, we picked her up, we got her dry. but she went on her way.
Because, that is certainly possible. It is not my theory, just possible. And if that did happen, would that person be rediculed even more than Skyler? Well, it is time not for VSP to change tactics. It is time for us, to rise to level of Courteney' level. Time to come together and support any body that can bring this to no to end, but to start. If you think this phase is hard? If there is a trial, we are on a long journey. But, I do not question most people's true desire. I may disagree with some parts, but no way will ever let petty difference again seperate me from these fine people!
SJones, Your attitude is mature and respectable. I am not interested in ridiculing anyone. Every theory is possible and I do agree we must rally behind the law.
However, there are instances that continue to disturb me. What to make of the shirt placed on the bushes? What is your assessment of that action? Was it a tease ? Was it to shock the VSP?
DC: it is just time for me to shut up. The t-shirt, please. I was the first to go on record. I am not special. I and Questioner spoke of this, seems like at a year ago. But, itt is just opinion.
So, I think it is time for me to ponder. This is not an article that needs personal self gradifaction.
There is no way I can keep to the standard that Ms. Stuart as set, for me.
I will say this, VSP, FBI and Ms Stuart are all avalible. I have expertise, but no way I should be a first, second, 3rd choice. I always will listen.
I may chime in as to the Bloodhounds. That is amazing. Skyler, Observer have much more to offer than I.
Once again, please do not build walls, time for everyone to stop the deaths of these young people. No matter the skin color, the social views, the sex, the religion or place of birth.
I am not special, if you have some information all 3 mentioned are avaliable. I promise it is much less painful than the dentist. VSP and Rader's Team are very easy to talk to. Kind, pleasent and they make it easy. Ms Stuart, very busy, I wish she had no stories, would that be nice. No deaths or rapes. If only, but trust me. She does not only get her voice mail, she listens. If you do get he on the phone, almost perfect recall.
She is the real deal.
So, if you are out there. Your not sure, your kind of scared? These people are not mean, I promise they will listen to you. What ever you are comfotable with, call ask for whom ever you identify with. Please, Please help!
SJones, I am not aware of what was said to Observer about the shirt. It is understandable if you do not wish to cover old facts now. I was simply curious as to your personal opinion.
My hope is that Ms. Stuart's journalism will spark someone to recall something that will assist. Many thanks for your response.
Questioner not Observer.
Q is as dedicated as any, we did did discuss the t-shirt, I think before it was printed.Her notes are in the 99% tile. Another example of dedicated and very smart people.
There are many, pesanally Mom3 and Eloise. Just time to get over the small stuff. I have talked to, sat down with so many real people and officials. It is not a video game, these people are real. Not one single person that I have met or talked with is not as committed as these posters.
It is just not true, that VSP never ingnored the public, just not true!
duannah, I have not spoken to, we shared some snake stories. I really do not think she or he does not like me. But I will say this statement has merrit as well as many
duannah February 9th, 2011 | 11:44am
I wish I could say “he is still here” as the title says. I can say he was here. He has a connection here
I think that statement is one of th best. dunnah lives, breaths and is on the ground. The connection could be from childhood, in the 60's.
I am signing off, any othe questions just pose them to others that posted. I would like to ad that I adore Pippi, sorry for that personal touch. And NO it is not a wathamacalic thing. She is soo kind, and smart!
Sorry:
I typed incorrectly. VSP has always listened to the public. I printed that wrong. VSP is not a drive thru. I promise with every thing I have, they do listen. They are involved and its Morgan's case is one that think that is in grasp.
That team is dedicated to not just to Morgan but to every single victim. If you talk to them, they do not have an attitude of well we are superior. Even I can feel and hear, they are hurting. They will listen trust me. I am nort the easiest person to get along with. But VSP and the FBI are not the problem, as AJ said.
Sjones
I have a question, why do you think the friends have been unfairly judged? I can only say this the story that the friends have presented has many holes in it. I have 2 teenagers myself and I can honestly say if my child was in the exact situation as Morgan and the friends left her outside alone with nothing I would be very upset with them. The Harrington's are very kind. I am not sure I could feel that way. Unless of course there is more to the story??? Sjones do you have children?
bellalina February 19th, 2011 | 1:23am
...this the story that the friends have presented has many holes in it....
What holes? Judged? Who is on trial? Trial the friends, trial the Family. Sorry, facts are facts.
Enter in to a discussion, ...............................................................
Slippery Slope, perhaps what Morgan's body rubed against as she took the short cut to Food of All Nations? Rain, boots, with only 4 complete contact points,moving. A hit here, a hit there? What about Wild Wings?
Did you not see Rader's interview. Where he rightfully displayes the "re-enactment"?
There is more than 1 slippery slope. Go to real time google earth, look at VSPs image presented by Rader and Team.
This is not a question of "being upset" . These are facts, take the facts! No darn emotion.
It will never permitted in court in the USA, to mention the fiends with out bringing every moment on earth with Dan, Gil and Alex. Do you not understand the slippery slope.
These are facts, you cannot bring in the friends and exclude the interworkings of the family. Why?
Becouse the friends are aware of the interworkings.
Why do so many dodge the obvious, family, friends? Every GD picture shows the RR tracks. Not a single person sees what is infront of their eyes?
Logic says all cars are vehicles.
Not all vehicles are cars.
All murders are homicide.
Not all homicides are murder.
Now read the article find an official staement, lets discuss it. But for Christ's Sake? If we the so called adults cannot agree to disagree, than what?
Something very bad happened, get it?
Try this:
http://www.newsplex.com/home/headlines/Police_Hope_New_Technology_Will_C...
Now, this was about 12 weeks ago, then Geller released a statement as to, Sheetz was not ruled out, also the time line may be extended, Then the walk through.
Lay this image over google sat lit.
Pull back, go East by S. East. Follow the tacks till they merge and cross other tracks. On google hit the man. It will say Wild Wings. Back up to 4 times.
Punch
37.986187,-78.617748
Sit back and just take it in.
SJones and DC Dame, I appreicate the mature and responsible discussion you are having regarding the article and Morgan's case. Ms. Stuart has written yet another professional and well researched article. I must admit, I find her the most reliable source of true information in this investigation.
I have no legal or forensic background, so what is meant by the comment from the article, 'However, State Police spokesperson Geller says investigators must proceed "very selectively and carefully" with any DNA testing because the evidence available for analysis is limited. DNA is destroyed by the testing process and cannot be retested for different purposes that might arise.'
Does this mean the DNA source was not or can not be replicated and what different testing purposes may present themselves? Thanks so much.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92225
Some text;
12-01-2009, 02:33 PM
Hoosll [PARA]Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009[PARA]Location: Central Virginia[PARA]Posts: 86
Quote:[PARA]Originally Posted by nervous_nellie [PARA]so, what does anyone think of the idea that the boyfriend had morgans car all along? and any implications that it may hold? i wont mention the site that this idea was posted since it is against tos, but i guess it doesnt hurt to ponder the idea...
Remember the dogs hit on MH's scent at Wild Wings Cafe on West Main ... I asked at the time if dogs would hit on transferred scent ... bf drives MH's car and thereby picks up her scent/skin cells ... he drops the girls at the concert and he then drives to Wild Wings ... OR, they all went to Wild Wings prior to going to the concert ...
Ok, try this. with out google maps, and Sat lite.
Put 2 pins in, bridge and Food of all nations. Insrt pin at Wild Wings. Insert pin at Moore Street,Sheetz. Then put pin at AK farm. look for quarry, see tracks between quarry and Highway. look at small levie about 100 yarsds north of fields where she layed. Back up, look at all pins. Do you see one constant thing?
small levie has 90 degree turn before straight line, the 90 degree turn after staight line. Small but secluded parking area. Follow the over flow from the dam,/ Levie. That is where body was found.
See, not rocket science.
Just research, now will someone make that darrn call to VSP? Someone may have assisted her and not be involved in any assault, but she or he is scared.
VA Mom February 19th, 2011 | 9:22am
No way I can answer the DNA questions, even VSP will say that is specific science.
Oh, it is surely needed.
perhaps patholgy would still exsist in certain areas, with the snow and blanket of cover.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp9Skla_nyA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGEm8yqmPl8&feature=related
Try this term, look into it.
stratum /stra·tum/ (strat´um) (stra´tum) pl. stra´ta [L.] a layer or lamina
bellalina February 19th, 2011 | 1:23am
Sjones
I have a question, why do you think the friends have been unfairly judged? I can only say this the story that the friends have presented has many holes in it. I have 2 teenagers myself and I can honestly say if my child was in the exact situation as Morgan and the friends left her outside alone with nothing I would be very upset with them. The Harrington's are very kind. I am not sure I could feel that way. Unless of course there is more to the story??? Sjones do you have children?
Ok, at first i though way too personal, but i think I see your point. You have teenagers and are viewing them as if the were Morgan, right?
Well, try it this way, your children are Amy or Sarah, how would you react. Honestly, after Ronoke, C'ville, campus police, VSP and seeing Dan contridict Gil on national TV before your eyes.
I suspect, you would circle the wagons.I got a pretty good idea they were expecting her home before rent on Nov 3rd. hos friends are he friends, she choose them. As a matter of fact Gil encourged to solidify ther relation ship after 11 months of some typical stuff. Amy is fantastic, Sarah I only know good things. But,
Honestly more than anything, I have always feared a domino effect. Truth is, one of the girls drove, not Morgan. It was decided that well it is not secret, but i ain't going to say is name., would drive home. Keys were in the others hands. Now, I ask, shows some sign of acting mature, but also, shows some sign of PARTY TIME. Now, your teenagers are say Amy, so tell me excactly what did Amy do wrong? The call was from Sarah to Morgan, no the other way around. So, 2 young women and morgan had been an adult for 2 months, she was not a little girl. But, Sarah called. Now, 15,000 people she does call, does not sounf to me like she was afair weather frind at all. She called!
So, what did they do wong? I can tell you it would not be the first time one of the had say, as Flletwood Mack would say go their own way. Also, not the first time phone went to message then secondary sever mode.
So again, what did they do wrong? Were they to the PA system and announce Morgan come to your seat? Really, what did they do wrong?
Had the friends known ahead of time what was going to happen, then they would have found the male friend (wherever he was) and gone to the front of the arena to either help Morgan get back in, lend her money, car keys, coat, medical assistance etc. IF they could not get her back in by any means, then they would have ALL joined her outside to protect her from Sketch and Kickee. The male friend could have levelled kickee and kept the BIB away and stopped the shadow following Morgan from coming up behind her, choking her with the silver necklace, scattering her belongings in the field, and throwing her into the white van, raping and murdering her, and depositing her body at AF. BUT, as they said "had we known what would happen we would not have done it" (or something like that)
SJones, You posted the following above
Ok, try this. with out google maps, and Sat lite.
Put 2 pins in, bridge and Food of all nations. Insrt pin at Wild Wings. Insert pin at Moore Street,Sheetz. Then put pin at AK farm. look for quarry, see tracks between quarry and Highway. look at small levie about 100 yarsds north of fields where she layed. Back up, look at all pins. Do you see one constant thing?
I hate to be a bother to you but I do not see what I think you must see. Can you help me? What should I see? What should I take away from this? We must continue the dialogue. Perhaps we can find some common theories that might help the authorities.
I also see you have shared some video of RR maintenance vehicles. Is this somehow connected to the killer? Do you feel it is perhaps important? Forgive my ignorance and thank you in advance.
AIC Bond,
I wonder why you feel the silver necklace was used as the deadly weapon. Can you elaborate?
I do not know that a white van has been mentioned by the police. Has it and it was missed? Please help with additional info if you can.
DC Dame
At the risk of ridicule to come, I have to admit I have thought that for a very long time.
Early on I had a terrifying dream of a clown with blue circled eyes who came in the front door with another man who was blond and taller. The clown was shorter. He/she suddenly reached up with a silver cord and choked me. It was a great surprise, because person was friendly to that point.
Same sort of thing with the white van/vehicle. Only this time it was not that long ago. I just had a quick sort of mental glimpse of Morgan lying on wooden floor (room seemed bare)
She was alone, and inside some sort of white/light type of mobile trailer perhaps. (that is why I said Van) MOO
Basketball players, more than one. They are not looking at these men closely enough.
He does look more like Roger Ebert than Ewen Cameron, but I don't judge a movie by it's review.
Here's an interesting story:
http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/va_tech_shooter_was_mind_controlled_...
Here's a quick few paragraphs from the article:
"Questions about the sequence of events on Monday, VA Tech, as well as the profile of the killer are arousing increased suspicion.
We have been receiving numerous calls and e mails alerting us to the fact that VA Tech is pulling links from its website concerning their relationship with the CIA. Reports from November 2005 confirm that the CIA was active in operating recruitment programs based out of VA Tech. Several professors from VA Tech are involved in government programs linked with NASA and other agencies.
Wikipedia also pulled a bizarre recently taken photograph of Cho wearing a U.S. Marines uniform.
Such details only fan the flames of accusations that Cho could have been a Manchurian Candidate, a mind-controlled assassin."
Uhmmm, yeah, right.
If you're not taking flak, you're not over the target.
S.Jones
"Well, try it this way, your children are Amy or Sarah, how would you react."
I would feel the same way if they were my children. What they could have done was get up and go and get her or tried to stop her. Morgan wandering around in the parking lots saying I will get a ride home seems strange to me. Maybe there was alot of partying going on prior and they were not thinking straight, or maybe there is information we are not privy to??IDK. I know they will have to live with the pain of that for the remainder of their lives and that must be very hard. I do feel sad about that. I am sure they all loved Morgan.
Sjones
'Logic says all cars are vehicles.
Not all vehicles are cars.'
Could some vehicles be trains?
Sarah said "If we had known this would have happened we would not have done it." Done what?
A very slippery slope...for sure Sjones.
Here is a interesting story:
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/02/19/3415013/even-drug-and-bomb-sniffing-dog...
I think your Youtube video postings are interesting...
Now why is Wild Wings so interesting? Also did DNA come from rubbing up against something or someone accidently near FOAN? I have always thought your posts to be be very thought provoking SJones.
Court,
I would like to hear from the 2005 witness or victim even anonymously about what they think of the sketch. If you look up the crying rapist Virginia this guy is the closest I've seen yet. Must not be him after this last article. Look he has to be close, lol I want to know what they think of the sketch and that guy.
The key to solving Morgan's murder may still be locked within the Fairfax assault victims mind. That with the right people using just the right techniques, a more detailed "picture" of this criminal could emerge. This poor women would most likely benefit from a $275,000 gift from us interested parties. Call it a heartfelt "Thank You" for agreeing to forego some serious memory retrieval work. What do you think?
"Undergo" is the word I mean't to use. That a Paypal account be setup to accept donations.
Interesting theories concerning mind control. Although I am skeptical in the Harrington case, the VT shootings and especially the blatant DC sniper-CIA connection ("duck in a noose" trigger phrase - amazing) should not be dismissed out of hand.
What do locals make about the alleged security connection hinted at on a popular blog site that chronicles the case? I find it a bit irresponsible myself, but I'm curious as to how others feel...
I think that most of the folks who want to blame UVA (which has, like many large venues an inhumane door/return policy that is liability based) are angry about feeling that they are sneered at in Harris Teeter by the college educated types they share the town with.
Token Local:
So, anyone local who has an unflattering opinion of UVA is uneducated? Surely you jest. And lets be real. The people you are envisioning do not shop at Harris Teeter. Because they would sneer back and scare the arrogance right out of the "college educated types" into a puddle on the floor. Remember, Thomas Jefferson was the original "townie." But he gets a pass, right?
The locals around here in general do not seem aware of much if any of the internet goings on around this case. Sad as it seems, once it got out in the news that Morgan was drunk/high, there appeared to be less sympathy (and less fear of a criminal predator threat), and then when it was reported she was hitch hiking, from there for many this case has merely devolved into a tragic media spectacle.
Totem,
It has been discussed that the use of a PR firm in this instance was an attempt to hide some of the "unflattering facts/details" that might have impacted the behavior of the victim the night she went missing. Is that what locals feel? Do you, as a local, ever see young women hitchhiking around campus?
Have you heard anything about Wild Wings and the dog hit there? A poster, SJones, brought this up again.
Bilfar
I agree with you that the 2005 rape victim of "sketch" probably knows who attacked her.
You think a bribe of 275,000.00 would get her to talk. How do you know she has not already identified her rapist to the police? Do you think they would be blabbing about it if she did and they cannot locate him? What if the police know he left the country and is enjoying himself in another country from where USA cannot get him extradited? (maybey he is in Peru?)
They say everyone can be bought, but what is a persons life worth? What if the victim 2005
were to come forward with info not already known to police and then his friends kill her?
Looking at it that way, she would need a lot more than the amount you specify, to get herself hidden from...hmmmmm....let me see LE, FBI, CIA, drug dealers, organized crime, Security officers, ????
What if she knows that sketch is not really black, but dark skinned Arab? What if the attacker was known to her already, and was trying to kill her for refusing him? I do not know any of this, of course, just showing you that money would not work.
All I am saying is, the police etc. must have already shown her thousands of pictures of
possible perps. If he is in the system, she should have seen his pic by now. IF he is not in system, then that would indicate that he was/is one of the "untouchables". I think it will be very difficult to catch him, but he might have a newish big dog. (or be connected to someone with a new big dog) (perhaps his old dog got burned or something)
Totem said "The locals around here in general do not seem aware of much if any of the internet goings on around this case. Sad as it seems, once it got out in the news that Morgan was drunk/high, there appeared to be less sympathy (and less fear of a criminal predator threat), and then when it was reported she was hitch hiking, from there for many this case has merely devolved into a tragic media spectacle."
Totem, I cannot understand the logic of this statement. I wonder if the locals do not think their own children get drunk or high? How many of the locals have children who have EVER gotten drunk? If their own kids drink, then they are still in danger of the criminal predator.
Why would locals not have empathy for a girl who was HH or walking through the woods, or
hiking along dangerous trails? To me, all of these reasons are just excuses to make people feel better about there possibly being a dangerous rapist/murderer in their town.
I do hope peeps will tell their kids to stay away from the homeless in the woods and not think it romantic to converse with and give the small dollars to these "unfortunate HELPLESS sexual predators, and child molesters" The unfortunate people who find themselves homeless for a period of time can get help from family and friends and organizations.
Maybey Bilfar could set up a paypal account to raise money for people who have lost their houses. People with young children to support etc. Better use of the money IMO.
DC Dame,
My observations of the locals is probably summed up as this, that most assume that many college age girls drink and experiment with drugs, and as the details trickled out weeks after Morgan went missing, most locals had already assumed she was under the influence of something.
What became a turnoff for many, if you will, was the reluctance to be forthcoming with such information for fear of "damage control", especially the fact that the hitch hiking reports were suppressed until AFTER the first organized Laura Recovery searches were conducted. I heard and read from locals participating in that search it was somewhat a slap in the face to them, and in my opinion that is when popular local opinion of this case first took a sharp negative turn.
Although it is not uncommon to see young girls walking around at all hours around UVA, even alone at night, I cannot recall ever seeing a woman hitch hiking in this area.
The dog hit at Wild Wings Cafe? No, I haven't heard anything of that from any locals.
I know many locals and I have not shared Totem's experience with them. A good many of them are very understanding and sympathetic to the Harringtons. Many have taken the time to read all the available information about the case and not rush to judgment. Many of them also helped in the search. There are those who have completely turned their backs on Morgan's story and tuned it out. But this is generally because of offensive things released by outside sources. There have, unfortunately, been things said about locals on the internet by people having nothing to do with the Harringtons. These things said did not go over too well. I feel badly for the Harringtons having to work hard to overcome that.
AIC Bond,
I hear what you are saying, but I am convinced that logic has nothing to do with these terrible things.
The Harringtons, they are still mired in grief, and so I do not personally judge them for anything, even the decisions made that I do not understand or agree with.
As well, this community, UVA and Charlottesville, even rippling to counties beyond, was in shock and grieving at the loss of this young woman.
Communities, and the collective thoughts and opinions and decisions by entire groups of locals, they are not immune from the effects of shock and grief either.
There is empathy of course, but as humans, to protect ourselves from the paralysis of fear, it is easy, and even necessary sometimes, to try to put structure to otherwise frightening and horrible events by assigning some sort of cause and effect to the situation, regardless if this cause and effect is "logical" or just, or even remotely related to the truth.
On both sides, trying to put structure to this terrible event, has lead to much hurtful blaming.
I hope in time, we all realize we all want the same things, to understand what has happened to Morgan, and to somehow right this terrible wrong.
Whether this happens, or is even possible, I simply do not know.
Totem,
Thank you for your perspective. Those of us who care about this case and Charlottesville appreciate your info. I think I understand from your comment above that locals who volunteered to search in the early days felt that they were not given the "full story" and were not pleased. Did they feel that had they known those details the search could have been made m ore productive? Or are you saying that they would not have searched at all? Please explain.
Way above, a poster named SJones pointed out his curiousity about the vehicles that can travel over railroad tracks in a maintenance situation. Do you ever see these vehicles? Do you think the railroad Tracks around JPJ were searched early on? Thank you in advance.
Perhaps what you are saying is exactly right, had the details been presented up front, matter of factly, without all the covering up, then much of the searching could have been more productive. I cannot imagine anyone helping who would have refused to help, but it's all hindsight speculation now I suppose.
I am aware of railroad maintenance vehicles, trucks that can travel on rails, and yes they are seen regularly. I assume they must be carefully coordinated with train traffic when they are on the rails of course, but interesting speculation.
I do not know if the railroad tracks around JPJ were searched.
Location, location, location. Look where the DNA match came from. A crime lab in Fairfax. Where is the headquarters of the CIA located? Langley. Where's Langley? Fairfax. Use your brain, folks.
Yes, perfectly reasonable that the CIA would be threatened by a 20 year old education major and need to kidnap and murder her to protect themselves. Perfectly reasonable too that they know the name of the poster above who has all of the facts, yet they leave him free to inform the public.
Duannah thank you...On our most recent trip to Charlottesville to put up flyers of the necklace Morgan was wearing that night, the locals were fabulous! Everyone we encountered was so wonderful and helpful and supportive. From Giant Food to the Corner to North Garden. Thank you to everyone we encountered that day! I am convinced the wonderful folks of Charlottesville far outweigh the negative people we encounter on Topix and other forums. God Bless the caring community of Charlottesville!
Cookie Jar
CIA would not need to capture John, because he is not/has not told anything that is not general knowledge.
Would they need to murder a 20 year old edu. major? Probably not. However, a CIA agent or the like could have attacked/blitzed Morgan, raped and killed her, then the others might feel the need to "cover" his tracks. Why? To avoid embarrassment perhaps.
Anyone think this is not possible???? Check out the Russell Williams, the former air force colonel who has admitted murdering two women and sexually assaulting two others
He was involved in more than 80 incidents of rape and abuse. BTW he keeps his pension!!!!
Know how they finally caught him? His tire tracks!
OR, how about the Stafford man Joeseph A. Broadway who is in prison for attempted murder and rape of a couple of peeps. He was Navy Seal, and in with the Pentagon, in with the authorities, etc. (Is he Sketch?) He acts like him....
Deleted by moderator.
Stands to reason too that the CIA would dump a body in a field rather than simply make it disappear. No doubt they blew all of their budget on fancy toys without even considering the basics, like how to dispose of crucial evidence that might implicate them.
Morgan was placed in #41 on AF. Was that a message to someone? Was Morgan a
sacrificial lamb? Why?
Why did Morgan draw a figure chasing another figure with a club (her painting titled "Driving") Was someone stalking her? Was she afraid of someone? Did someone already hurt her? Why did Gill tell everyone her father was a diplomatic courier?
Cookie jar
Do you think/know we are all being baited?
The necklace? What would a killer do with a nice necklace? NOT pawn it. If he were to pawn it, then he would also have taken the other jewellry. No, he would keep it in a safe place where no one would ever look. If he is poor, then he would hide it in the ground in a hole. If he is rich or well off, then he might put it in a safety deposit box. They could put spy cameras in the rooms where peeps look in their boxes.
John, are you Dan H. friend?
Oh, and John, what percentage of the masses, IYO , are "dumbed down" Personally, I think it is about 70%. You can witness them scurrying around the churches, praying to statues,
attending parent/teacher meetings, mingling at parties, laughing at non jokes, pretending to be interested in other peoples conversation, desperately working out, watching reality TV, dining out at expensive restaurants, smiling at partners whom they despise, and on it goes.
The other 30%? (Morgan was one) are farming their land, growing potatoes, learning for the fun of it, being kind to others, caring about others, smoking pot (hahah) laughing out loud at real jokes, exercising for the fun of it, working because they like it, enjoying good food,
shopping at thrift shops, loving their kids, loving other peeps kids. In other words just living!
AIC Bond, you mentioned that Mrs. H told others that her father was a diplomatic courier. Is that significant in some way? You told us about your dream and the necklace. What do you think happened? Do you think Morgan was meeting someone?
re Gill telling us her father was a diplomatic courier. It is significant to me that she would say so. In other words, she must have thought it was significant. Since she thought it was important to mention it, and since she called Morgan a sacrificial lamb, I listen, and wonder
(think about what all of it could/might mean)
I think someone could have been following/stalking Morgan. Someone whom she already knew (in passing) Someone older with steely blue/grey eyes. (possibly shorter than she)
He had helpers (at least one) He held the element of surprise. (I do not think she was intending to meet someone originally, but might have been tricked into meeting someone)
He might have knocked her down inside the crowded arena without anyone even noticing it, because it could be quick and skillful, then lured her outside somehow, and watched from the shadows until he had the op. to strike. JMOO
I too found it profound that Gil mentioned that her father was a diplomatic courier, and that Morgan stored her chunky jewelry inside the cigar box brought back by her Grandfather, then after her body was cremated, her ashes are/were stored inside that box. I'm not a conspiracy thinker, but I'm also not beyond thinking of it as a possible piece to this puzzle.
I have to wonder if possibly Dan and Gil have asked the friends not to speak. They most likely do not want to open the friends up for criticism anymore than what has already transpired among various blogs and the dreadful topix web site. Also, if the friends painted Morgan in an unfavorable light then Dan and Gil most likely wouldn't want that out there(who can blame them?), and they would most definitely not ask the friends to lie. Dan and Gil are people with integrity. My heart continues to break for them.
I would like to have some imput on the possibility that Morgan was beaten for information. Information that someone thought that she might have and wouldn't give. Beaten and raped beyond what is normal for a rapist, overkill even. Just wondering about the possibility of this happening. Sorry about being so blunt, but one has to wonder.
I will ask my friends at CSIS
To go along with what I've said above, of what significance other than it being once Gil's mothers, is that bracelet that the ME allowed Gil to have? Apparently there was still enough soft flesh left on it for Gil to need to scrub it. Thoughts?
The women assaulted was visiting Fairfax. She was an innocent victim who was most likely stalked before being attacked. Had that passerby not come along she'd be dead. No doubt she tried her best at the time to provide Law Enforcement with as much information as she possibly could. That hopefully she has put most of that terrible experience behind her and is now getting on with her life back in her home country. My thought is what would it take for her to return and place herself in the hands of forensic hypnosis experts who could very possibly gleen new information regarding her attacker. That if she were to be assured that all expenses would be paid and a large "incentive" payment be made in her name that she just might agree to return.
Perhaps there are big companies who would be interested in donating towards this particular endeavour. Especially Swarovski North America Ltd. They have been receiving lot's of of free advertising and may be interested in returning Morgan the favor.
Facts regarding Morgan’s murder:
That Morgan was last seen hitchhiking.
That a small amount of Morgan’s skeletal remains were found over three months later lying in a field “broken and shattered”.
That Morgan was murdered in a savage, sadistic manner.
“That the killer knew enough about Anchorage Farm, and the community of residents that surround it (a very small number in the immediate vicinity) to choose it as a remote-enough site to dump Morgan there”.
That Morgan’s silver bracelet and signet ring were found amongst her remains.
That Morgan’s expensive and very distinctive “Swarovski” necklace remains missing along with her red, digital camera.
That the Black “Pantera” tee shirt Morgan was wearing was found 25 days later “laid out” on a bush, close to where she went missing.
That the only suspect so far is an unidentified 30 to 40 year old tall, black male of average build.
OT
Interesting name combination. (b.1906)Col. George H. White (Morgan Hall) (well known CIA OP) (from the past) I wonder if he is related to Morgan in some way, or if it is just a co-incident.
Something that also bothers me, and no one has yet to mention, is the, large signet ring which features an imprint copied from a ring owned by Gil's father.
Also:
Lady Blanka Rosenstiel was involved with
Charlottesville’s University of Virginia, its Miller Center in
particular. As its former Director, the gentlemanly Professor
Kenneth Thompson, put it: “like Johnny Apple Seed she
dropped seeds wherever she went for a program on Polish
studies and a Kosciuszko Chair. She helped me remember war
time experiences and efforts at the Rockefeller Foundation.
The Foundation sought to preserve priceless fragments of
Polish culture at universities and centers through Europe,
especially in France.”
Kosciuszko left the United States in 1798 on a diplomatic mission on behalf of both countries, a trip that was arranged by Jefferson.
If I'm remembering correctly, Gil's mother was a runway model in France, and her father was a diplomatic courier for France. Is this just all coincidence that Morgan was found on historical land which was once owned by the Blandemar family?
--------------------------------------------
We also have the 2005 Fairfax victim as being able to speak, Urdu--- a language primarily spoken by Muslims in India and Pakistan.
Islam is the second most widely practiced religion in France by number of worshippers, with an estimated total of 6 to 10 percent of the national population. Muslims comprised an estimated two-thirds (68.5%) of all new immigrants to France in 2010.
------------------------------------------------
Foods Of All Nations - Deli & Catering
Giant Foods - Fairfax
I'm hoping that LE has checked out who was working the night of Oct 17th and Sept 24th 2005. They may be one person or two who worked or got off work around the time of both victim attacks. Is it possible that someone was at a catered event at Blandemar Estates and had enough time to get to know the area?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Is the reason VSP first wanted Blacksburg to take Morgan's case because they felt that someone had followed her that day, knowing that she had tickets to the Metallica concert?
There is a store in Blacksburg called Oasis World Market. Dad has said that Morgan spent too much on food supplies and that's what ran her checkbook over into the red. Could this have been where she shopped? There just may be a connection to all three of these food stores to Blandemar.
Gil Harrington’s thoughts from June 30, 2010
I have spent a lot of time these last 8! months contemplating secrets. Some secrets are information intentionally withheld; other secrets are hidden by happenstance or coincidence. A tricky one is the secret we keep from ourselves because we kind of see it but know it is ugly and cannot bear to confront it – yet.
--------------------------------
Secrets? What is it that we aren't seeing or have knowledge of? I wish that Gil would expound on this. Let us help you.
While the comment section is still open I would like to suggest that they try maybe looking at Social security numbers from the 2005 Fairfax area and compare them to numbers from the area around FOAN of the night of Oct 17th. If they could, they should. They being cops of course.
Questioner1,
You posted above: " Is the reason VSP first wanted Blacksburg to take Morgan's case because they felt that someone had followed her that day, knowing that she had tickets to the Metallica concert?"
I had not heard that VSP wanted Blacksburg to take the case. Can you expand on that? Is there a link? If not, could you share where you learned this info? Thanks in advance.
Questioner1,
You posted above: " Is the reason VSP first wanted Blacksburg to take Morgan's case because they felt that someone had followed her that day, knowing that she had tickets to the Metallica concert?"
I had not heard that VSP wanted Blacksburg to take the case. Can you expand on that? Is there a link? If not, could you share where you learned this info? Thanks in advance.
DC Dame - In all honesty, it's been so long ago that I read that I can't remember where or how we learned it. If I had a link, I would post it.
Ginger - To me, whoever this suspect is, he could be a buyer for large food stores. They have buyers who go to large food stores to get the best buys they can for the stores on imported foods, and keep them stocked in these products.
Ms. Stuart writes a brilliant, well researched, informed article on this case and a few posters have followed with thoughtful gratefully educated insights. However now it would appear that a few have arrived here rabidly posting their own silly, 'psychic', paranoid, and 'out there' incidental thoughts and feelings to such a degree that it simply dumbs down this entire case and attempts to trivalize the seriousness of this crime and the people dedicated to helping to solve it.
To those posters who were obviously busy at Topix and other blogs: stop it! Are you just titillating yourselves posting about this case and violent murder for your own entertainment? How in the world is what you are saying relevant to solving and I mean truly solving this case, and being helpful to those that are?
I mean do you really believe your incidental thoughts matter? It just sounds as if you are passing time posing under the pretense of being such 'caring, concerned, deeply thoughtful people', as opposed to contributing anything that actually enhances. This is not entertainment. Your speculating has finally degraded into the stuff that goes on at that dreadful blog that churns this sort of crap out daily. It is not appropo here, nor is reflective of the kind of careful research and thought Ms.Stuart is committed to here.
Someone above asked others opinions on that blog I just mentioned. You know, the one that rakes innocent others through the mud without any proof whatsoever. The one that once tried to make Mr. Bass and his family look suspicious at several points, and kickee-whom she said she'd name-and of course never did. This is what she does: dangle carrots and wait for her enamored groupies to bite. Just remember that this blog is her career, how she makes her living, how she may have much more ambition to climb the ladder of those media w****** that profit off of another's loss and tragedies, and she seems to cultivate stay at home/retired/bored types who worship her and would do large parts of her research. She cultivates these types-it's like a cult over there all operating under the auspices of being 'in' with the Harringtons, the cops, etc..., and possessing all sorts of inside info that has never panned out, how she cares so much, and lives for these victims. The self righteousness over there is nauseating. Look at how many victims this blog covers, how many crimes she would have you think she and her base can solve. I mean really-entire police forces and agencies work day and night to solve one of them, and her blog is over there doing it all part time and publicly. Does anyone really believe this blog to be anything BUT a perverse form of entertainment?
Just look at the difference in the quality of reporting and commitment to authenticity and details, facts vs. rumour or heresay, psychics and visions that is portrayed over there versus The Hook and Ms. Stuart's integrity and steadfastness to helping to solve this case-and also being a responsible community member. Too bad many of that blogger's fanbase are coming over here and trying to muddy the waters. It would appear Topix may have banned certain posters that are suddenly here.
I am only speaking of a minority here btw. More of the posters here seem deeply caring and interested in continuing their support of this case even if or as they have few answers, which is something I respect. The cops are doing their job people and know more than you dream of. That the Harringtons' continue to support them is more than enough for me.
And may I respectfully ask REALLY, just what you bring to the table? Besides a diatribe of nasty comments.
Really
Obviously, neither you or your too good buddies have "solved this case" in any way. You have not even come close. Just what is it that you are objecting to? Are people getting too close to the truth here for your comfort? You feel the need to shut people up? Well it will not work anymore , because you do not have control of the site.
Editing everything people say and every idea people come up with has been only detrimental to solving the case. If you only let people say what is nice, acceptable, honourable, and sweet, you will get nowhere, just as you got nowhere on FM for this very reason. Let me tell you something. What happened to Morgan was not nice, sweet or respectable. Only by allowing poeople to say what they want to say will anyone get even close to the truth. I know you do not wish to hear the truth. I suggest you do not read here, and just go watch your soaps and drink your tea, and regurgitate feel good phrases to all your friends. You cannot and will not control what others say or think. Perhaps you could start by controlling your own thoughts, and keep them to yourself.
Really? Thank you for your excellent post. Main stream media quality.
Furthermore, Really? How would you know the cops are doing their jobs and know more than you dream of? Who told you that? Could it be some of the same "cops" who were using their police vehicles for pimpmobiles, chasing and killing young unarmed men when out of their jurisdiction, or showing up at suicides while off duty? Are these some of the cops you are referring to? I do hope not!
Can we keep this on the case of a murdered girl? Let's not get personal.
I think Really? is referring to a site that we know about. It is not important to this discussion. We are here and not over there. We must keep this dialogue mature and on topic.
I would ask that SJones come to the forum and if he could further explain his GPS exercise he suggested, it would be very appreciated. If he would expand on what we should see after following his directive, I would be interested. I see his map, his coordinates and appreciate the info, but do not fully understand what to take away from this info. Thank You.
AIcBond "chasing and killing young unarmed men when out of their jurisdiction"
Name one young unarmed person killed by the cops.
I think questioner1 is getting alittle to close for some peoples comfort it seems. Don't forget that Trader Joes is also thinking of moving here and must have had scouts looking around. They are a german company with not so well known ties to middle east finance. Yes, a buyer or scout for "natural"food stores which means New Age (= NWO) secretly behind. I like some others think the necklace may not have ever been real, with the refernce to "swarovski" being a coded message like that sent by the CIA in the Malvo sniper case. That is well documented and a similar message here seems likely the work of the CIA. THose of us who have studied world powers know of the connections between the Bliderbergers and teh last of teh Hapsburg dyanasty who own swarovski.
All I know is, if this perp had disposed of a body over a cliff or some generic place then we would assume it could be anyone from anywhere. The fact that she was "placed "on AF tells us that this person was familiar with the area and the intricacies of the land. He has narrowed the field, so to speak, of the profile...just with that one decision. In addition, he has narrowed the field with the fact that he took nothing really valuable from her. Her necklace, though costing maybe 2 or 3 hundred, wasn't like her signet ring which was gold and worth much more. The necklace wouldn't bring much, second hand....he most likely kept it as a trophy or gave it to a gf believing Morgan would never be found.
Oh I believe that the swarovski necklace was worn that evening by Morgan, but I don't believe that it was taken as a trophy, I think that it was taken to almost rub dirt into the faces of someone/s, but for what reason I'm not yet certain. IT was taken to certify that this wasn't a robbery gone bad.
J.me,
I understand how the perp narrowed the field by placing Morgan on the farm. I agree. I wish to ask you about the comment regarding the jewelry. Are you saying that Morgan was wearing a gold signet ring and it was left on her remains?
yes....the gold signet ring was a copy of the one Gil's grandfather wore.
I wrote this above:
Something that also bothers me, and no one has yet to mention, is the, large signet ring which features an imprint copied from a ring owned by Gil's father.
....and yes, it was left with her remains.
J.Me, I have to say that I have never heard the detail about the ring. Thank you.
Sal Culosi
Fred McConnell
David Masters
Frederick Gray
Elvis Shifflett
Robert Lee Cooke
slpragnt, The necklace was real.
J Me said "yes....the gold signet ring was a copy of the one Gil's grandfather wore"
The fact the ring was not taken rules out all homeless, penniless peeps IMO, because they would sell it for whatever they could get. (the bracelet too) That leaves people with no need for money. To take the necklace and no other jewelry , especially jewelry related to Morgans GF, might be very significant. (was the necklace used in the beginning of the crime to choke Morgan, and this could be the reason for keeping it?)
Could the perps have wanted Morgan to be recognized as who she was when she was finally found. A message of some kind?
Q....I think Morgan could have taken a picture of someone who did not want his picture taken, when she was up taking pics with her camera inside the arens. Could this person have been shadowing Morgan waiting for an oportunity, then saw her snapping his photo, and quickly knocked her down, pocketed her camera, and disappeared outside. (the only way this could work is if the perp is a professional)
Q said "Oh I believe that the swarovski necklace was worn that evening by Morgan, but I don't believe that it was taken as a trophy, I think that it was taken to almost rub dirt into the faces of someone/s, but for what reason I'm not yet certain. IT was taken to certify that this wasn't a robbery gone bad."
I understand the necklace was a gift to Morgan from her brother. (then who would want to rub dirt in who's face?) The only people I can think of would be "friends" of her brother.
"placed on AF"
by saying she was "placed". Does that mean she was "posed"?
AICBond - I feel that the truth lies back in Blacksburg, and the other portion of the puzzle lies in Fairfax with the rape victim. I DO think that someone was shadowing Morgan, but not inside the venue. We know that she had a fight with the girls sometime during the first part of the concert, that she left them, that she attempted to walk out the door and a security guard told her that if she left she wouldn't be able to re-enter. We have read that she fell inside the venue. That she cut her chin. What we don't know, is how that security guard was so certain that the purse dump was for the reason of looking for her camera. Did she say that to him/her? Face it, she had SOME REASON for walking out that door. What was it?
AIC, No it just means she wasn't thrown over a cliff from the top of Afton Mountain as they drove by. It means someone took great pains to put her where she was found.
J.me - On AF land, but historically Blandemar, to me, THAT is the clue and the key.
"someone took great pains to put her where she was found"
Since she was found on #41, I wonder if the significance of the number was important, or a co-incidence. Was the plot of ground the important piece of the puzzel and not the number> It gets creepy if you think it could be the number'
Questioner1,
Please expand on your feeling that the truth "lies back in Blacksburg". I assume you have studied this case from the beginning and have some reason to say that. Thank you.
Questioner1, Why is Blandemar significant? Can you explain?
Q. said..."AICBond - I feel that the truth lies back in Blacksburg, and the other portion of the puzzle lies in Fairfax with the rape victim. I DO think that someone was shadowing Morgan, but not inside the venue. We know that she had a fight with the girls sometime during the first part of the concert, that she left them, that she attempted to walk out the door and a security guard told her that if she left she wouldn't be able to re-enter. We have read that she fell inside the venue. That she cut her chin. What we don't know, is how that security guard was so certain that the purse dump was for the reason of looking for her camera. Did she say that to him/her? Face it, she had SOME REASON for walking out that door. What was it?
Seems there are some inconsistencies. I think I remember the police saying the ticket taker told Morgan she would need a new ticket because Morgan said "her ticket was in pieces in her purse" To me this does not make sense. If there was no re-entry policy then why would the ticket taker even say this? And IMO a ripped ticket, just like a ripped dollar could still be used!
The land Morgan on which was found was never part of Blandemar Farm. It was always part of Anchorage Farm. Blandemar was owned by the Carpenter Family for over 100 years before being bought by Blanka Rosensteil and Waldemar Dowiak, two Polish siblings.
Q said..... "she had SOME REASON for walking out that door. What was it?"
Someone could have phoned her to meet him outside (either pretending to be someon Morgan knew, or WAS someone she knew)
((((((Also, whispering this.............I have always wondered why one of Morgans friends said "if we had known what would have happened we would not have done it")))) I am sure there is a good explanation for this.
duannah - Unless as I have suspected, she was actually placed at the treeline of Blandemar and during those three months was moved by water and animals. Or am I wrong that those trees are on Blandemar land?
ACIBone- It was parcel 41a. I'm just not certain. Strange though that 2 4 1 meant so much to her family.
To Questioner1: how do you know the girls had a fight that evening before Morgan left the venue? I missed this, so could you please source this? Many thanks.
To Questioner1: how do you know the girls had a fight that evening before Morgan left the venue? I missed this, so could you please source this? Many thanks.
Denny - You can find that information on BOC - Blink On Crime.
Questioner1, I was only commenting on the actual place they found her, I'm not sure about the area you're talking about.
duannah - The large portion of trees between Red Hill Rd, and the parcel of AF that she was found on, the large grove of trees.
Okay, if it is the parcel 41a that you have been talking about here, that's owned by the Bass family.
No no, I was just answering ACIBond on that lol.
Thanks for this info Q1, however do you consider this conjecture or fact? I've never heard Morgan's parents nor the VSP state this, this is why I ask. I do not go to BOC for the reason that so much of what occurs over there is not factual.
Denny - I do consider this a fact yes.
Ok, thanks, and you consider it fact b/c it was stated at BOC and that nowhere else this has been mentioned? I don't mean to split hairs here, but I do think it important that facts as reported remain facts and rumors or speculation are also reported to be someone's opinion as well. I appreciate that you believe this. But here we have a meticulous article by Courtney who is known for reported proven facts and nothing else and to bring from BOC a possible rumor is not in service to Courtney's work here. JMO.
Denny - Sketch wasn't released by VSP either, we learned of it at BOC.
Questioner1 : "Denny - I do consider this a fact yes."
Just one of your many mistakes.
Denny, case in point. Exactly what I was saying above. This people from that blog will say anything and it does a disservice to Ms. Stuart and the Harrington's to pass off unsubstantiated rumors as fact.
Thank you Joe for actually reading what I wrote.
To the CIA character from Topix here: I am NOT attempting to solve this case, have no need to, nor desire to. I let the professionals do their job. I come here to read what another professional, Ms. Stuart has to report about this crime. I have never posted at FM and for you to attempt to act as if you know me is absurd as are your other annoyances.
Joe
Time for your nappy!!!!
I'm not here to argue, only to discuss the case.
Really
Time for your bottle!
Here's a fact.
VSP said Location , Location , Location .
the person who left her here knows this property & is familiar with it.
Left down by a dried up creek bed , within heavy coverage of trees overhead , not left out in the open .
People would not be hunting or fishing in a dried up creek bed.
Hunters would know about it , but it's too difficult to get a deer in & out of , too much trouble for sporting.
Many other areas not that difficult to get in & out of for deer hunting.
The person(s) leaving Morgan there knew this.
They knew the chance of a hunter finding her was pretty slim , fishing not done there , was dried up according to Bass.
So whoever placed her there knew this was a secluded spot & very likely she would never be found.
Q
I appreciate your discussions. I am also not here to argue. Just ignore Mikey!
Questioner1 is your name Shannon by any chance?
Whomever did this is not a hunter IMHO, a hunter makes a clean kill, he doesn't beat the prey to death.
SJD42 - Not even close.
SJD42 - There was only one forum member who EVER called Dan Harrington - DAD, and that was Questioner, ME.
I am not sure the killers did not want Morgan to be found. If so, why did they not bury her. Mr. B. would not have even seen her from his tractor then. Also, why play around with the shirt on the bush?
HUH? What are you talking about?
SJD42 Is your name Mikey? ; - ))
Ontario Poser, I am Mikey as much as you are a certain elderly man from the Lone Star state in love with a certain blogger who loves you back and you spend your days kissing each others fannies with ridiculous over the top sentimental compliments that are so sickeningly syrupy you have to wonder. Meanwhile it all passes as "Facts". Ha! Don't you know how obvious you all are? BOC is a egomanical lovefest masquerading as do-gooder crime solvers. Why in the world are ya'll over here now?
No, no, no, CIA poser is really the alter ego Brooke4 and got burned over at Topix, banned for doing what it do best, which is ruin a thread faster than greased lightening. You can tell because all the intelignent posters have fled this thread since it came over here.
And for Qusetioner1-that isnot true about Sketch. VSP released the Sketch. If you are gettin your info elsewhere and come here and state it fact then this is wrong and you need to give your sources. When you say Morgan and friends had a fight and this comes from Blink and no wheres else, that ain't fact honey, that just Shannon guesswork. It is cruel to put that rumor out there as the frinds have had enough grief and speclations made on them.
All i can say not out of fear for myself, but exposing others is be careful with your assumptions when talking about eh crystals. Long long ago there was an important messge overlooked. Black hats. Poster sjones knows ask! It means two thngs not gone into then or now but I can tell you to look deeper. THe marks of teh Hapsburgs are all over. Crystal, teh old old ties to teh Blandemars of Kent, French courier is a HUGE clue with te ring don';t forget!! One last before I go Ḥāmid Karzay and recent events in Paistan must not be missed to understand who we are dealing with as powerful people involved.
Time for bed, SJD, Jones, Mikey
Wrong on all counts! Sorry to disappoint you, but not banned at Topix, not from the lone State, Not an elderly man, not Brooke4, not in love with anyone on the net. Speaking of getting your facts straight. You could not be more wrong about everything. G'Nite!
J.Me,
Reflecting on your post up the thread about "narrowing the field" by placing Morgan at AF and by leaving her jewelry with her body.......What do you feel that means? It was clearly not robbery. Do you feel Morgan knew her assailant? Do you feel she left the concert to meet someone? Thank you in advance.
DC Dame, I do not necessarily feel that it means anything more than the assailant knew the area and that the crime was not committed by a "thief". I also do not know why Morgan left the concert. I do tend to believe that her fall had something to do with it...that perhaps she also felt sick and needed air, so much so that she ignored the security personnel's warning of the no re-entrance policy. No, I don't feel that she knew her assailant. Morgan was looking for a ride, and there are witnesses to attest to the theory that since her interaction with the basketball players did not result in a ride, she resorted to seeking a more random approach.
To others, the idea that "Sketch" killed Morgan because of some secret CIA/international espionage/secret society retaliation, is ridiculous. One connected to or hired by these groups would not leave dna, would not allow her shirt to be left behind and posed,..Morgan and her possessions would have disappeared into thin air instead... this perp has not been found but it was a shabby, unprofessional job nonetheless. They will catch him... I just hope it won't take another murdered girl to do so.
Have we correctly specified the race of the guy in the sketch? To me his features look more hispanic than black. So I am just wondering if we are looking for the right person.
You guys all know each other secretly? all this talk is over my head.
No AJ, I do not know these folks, aside from you and Q....though my friend Frances feels some of them may have had too much Kool-aid.
Questioner1 ,
My post above about where they chose to leave Morgan , perhaps I need to re-word it .
The person(s) who left Morgan in that location Knew the land well & knew that she would not be found by hunters or fishermen for the reasons I described above.
I did not mean in any way to suggest the perp was currently a hunter.
Thank you J.Me.
AJ, I do not know anyone posting.
J.Me
I agree with you that for the most part CIA officials, and the like are professional and would know better than to leave DNA behind. It is obviously, however not always the case. We should keep an open mind as to who the murders are.
Unless you already know who they are, then you should not refer to other peoples ideas as ridiculous. If you know the murderers then spare our time and let the police know as well, please.
Listed here are just a FEW cases which prove my point. The following are professional CIA or COL. high ranking officials who should know better than to get caught by being SLOPPY, but they did get caught.
A former CIA station chief officials once described as a "rising star" in the organization has pleaded guilty to drugging and raping a Muslim woman in Algeria. Andrew Warren, 42, will be held in federal custody until he is sentenced, and could face up to a decade in jail, ABC News reports. The fluent Arabic speaker, who jumped to the career fast track after 9/11, also pleaded guilty to using illegal drugs while possessing a firearm, a charge filed after police tracked him down to a Virgina hotel room when he missed a court hearing.(this man came into his neighbours house and exposed himself)
Joseph Anthony Broadway pleaded guilty in Stafford Circuit Court on Tuesday to abduction, attempted rape and aggravated malicious wounding. He also had faced attempted capital murder and another felony unlawful wounding charge, according to court records.(this man was former Navy Seal, in with Pentagon)
Col. Russell Williams admitted to raping and strangling Jessica Lloyd and raping and suffocating Cpl. Marie France-Comeau, and couldn't say whether he would do it again
Col. Russell Williams admitted to raping and strangling Jessica Lloyd and raping and suffocating Cpl. Marie France-Comeau, and couldn't say whether he would do it again
The officer then turned his questions to the type of tires on Williams's Nissan Pathfinder, as they matched tire tracks found outside Lloyd's home.
J.Me said
"The necklace wouldn't bring much, second hand....he most likely kept it as a trophy or gave it to a gf believing Morgan would never be found."
BTW, if the perp gave the necklace to his girlfriend, then she is either dead already or her life is in danger. With all the pics of the necklace out there, the murderer would not take the chance on her keeping quiet about it. LE has most likely already considered that angle and looked into any female deaths or apparent suicides in the past year or so.
AICBond: In a moment of former Clarity, did you work for Blink?
Nope, worked for Claude! ....and Joyce...; - ))))
AIC, some posters are not just suggesting the murderer was simply in the CIA or military, they are suggesting that the murder itself was some sort of CIA operation. And that is ridiculous, just like the elders of zion, cho mind control, spy/diplomatic courier, Tibetan connection stuff. It is a shame that good info is buried by this stuff IMO.
AIC, I have no doubt that former military or government personnel commit crimes and are convicted of crimes. But these ideas that Morgan was targeted because of MKUltra mind control, the Bilderburg society etc.(containing details which, thankfully, have since been removed from this forum) did seem a bit ridiculous in my opinion. I am sorry if I offended anyone. And no, I do not know who comitted this crime but common sense and the facts leading up to her disappearance tell me that this was not a pre-planned event. That's all. My mind has been open to lots of theories but, since July and with the latest revelations, has now focused on the idea that this was a crime of convenience for a violent sex offender.
As far as the necklace, unless one has followed this case from the beginning, knowledge of what the necklace looked like has not been too widespread by VSP or the media. It has only been in the last few weeks that pictures of that necklace have been distributed to the general public and posted around town. And even then, unless the assailant has a GF in the Charlottesville area, you'd have to be following this case to see those pictures. Its not like its plastered on CNN and the Wall Street Journal. A GF might even have been told it was purchased on the street or at a pawn shop. I don't know AIC...just following common sense/Occam's Razor theory. I could be totally wrong. But I am glad everyone is focused and still thinking&paying attention. Thanks Courteney for helping.
Red.....agreed!
Math Test
241 2+4+1 = 7
33+1 = 7
Were any of the Harringtons members of a certain secret society?
regarding numerology 33+1 actually equals 34. 3+4 = 7
J.Me
Common sense is good. Re the necklace, I know I saw a pic. of it a long time ago. I could be wrong, but I think I saw it on NG(CNN) Even if the "girlfriend" has not seen a pic of the necklace, the viscious killers certainly have seen the ads posted around, and her life would still be in danger IMO (in case she saw the pic and called LE) Anyone who would kill Morgan would no doubt kill her too.
The "violent sex offender" could still be ANYONE, in MO (however, you may know a lot more details than some of us), but I think someone said (Q? perhaps) "that no one knows any more than we all know" I wonder if that is still true. Just trying to help here.
BTW, I think a common type of low intelligence SO would take all the "bling"
I wouldn't know the answer to that John, but are you talking such as a Mason?
John
I have always thought that the 241 codes (if you will) were linked to the past, ie used by Gil and her father and even beyond. BUT, it does not seem to have anything to do with the murder of Morgan.
Smoke and mirrors, diversions, why???????
No, but there are a few bricks on my porch.
AIC - Yes it was me that said that no one knows anymore than we all do, except of course for LE.
AICBond: Hidden in plain view, my friend.
Ok John lol, just attempting to understand.
maybe some bricks on the porch, but still a few shy of a load
J.Me said "And no, I do not know who comitted this crime but common sense and the facts leading up to her disappearance tell me that this was not a pre-planned event."
I got the idea Morgan was being stalked from her painting, titled "Driving" I looked very closely at all her paintings, because I am an artist. In her painting "driving", she shows two figures. One is being chased by another wielding a club. There could of course be some explanation for this other than Morgan being afraid someone was "after" her. The same figures are common in her art teachers work, and in the work of others from the area, such a J B. (By the way, there is also a painting which looks as if it could have been done on AF)
I saw lots of other things in her work too, but some I cannot say here.
Q. LOL, I thought you were including LE. (I really did)
Um, no although...........
Picturing John whipping bricks at passers by, or anyone with the audacity to venture up his lane. (reminds me of someone...hmmmm....could it be Dakoda, or Dakota?)
Does anyone here know anything about the video by ----------Playing with guns (I think it was called) That was really creepy, and it seemed to have boots in the bottom Left that resembled those worn by LE/security etc. (there are a lot of wierd creepy people who have been under the microscope who do not seem to be involved!)
I'm not much for conspiricy theories, I'm honestly not. I do however feel that Occam's Razor isn't helping, and I'm not sure why that is. The timeline is good, up until around 9:20, then somthing isn't right and I just can't lay my finger on it. It's the porta potty time, which I thought she would attempt to do because she had been out in the cold for long enough that she would need to use them. It's after that time, there's a problem.
If the BB players left the RV lot at 9:20, she walked down to the porta potties, used them, then walked toward the baseball field, it would take her more time to be seen on the bridge by 9:30. What is it that we are missing?
Probably that the cops are lying.
I'm wrong, she didn't walk toward the Baseball field, it was just those two coming from that area that saw her in the area of the porta potties. If she didn't seem stressed at that point, walked up onto the bridge then out toward Ivy Rd, went west toward the Foods Of All Nations, then to my thinking, someone that was back behind the FOAN saw her from across the tracks.
No John, someone was back there on the other side of the tracks and was watching her, it's the only thing that makes any sense. But the who is the question. Either someone that was suppose to be there, or not suppose to be there.
@ oldpilot: I think Morgan was probably dropped out of a plane.
Or a helicopter.
Not gonna get me on that one John, already been there, did that, apparently not likely.
Lots of murders have unlikely scenario's, dude.
Not a dude here, and yes I'm quite aware of that. When I asked about that senario, I was told that Morgan's remains, injuries would have been different had that been the case.
And just who told you that, dude?
Don't you think dropping a body out of a helicopter would explain a terribly broken up body, lady?
Yes, it definately would, thus the reason that I brought it up way back when, after Morgan was located. It would seem to me that her injuries would be rather consistant with a drop from a plane.
Then why am I "not gonna get you on that one" as you just so succintly stated?
And if you don't mind me asking again, just exactly who told you that it would be inconsistent with a long fall from the sky?
I am so glad to see some of the old FM posters on here sticking up for Morgan. I firmly believe that there is alot that police are not telling us simply....because they cant. Should they reveal more to the public? Possibly, but I trust them to do their jobs. Morgan's story has touched so many peoples lives and I'm sure has saved mine a time or two. It is obvious that we can all agree on one thing. This nutcase, serial rapist, needs to be put behind BARS. He needs to be caught. Is he in Cville? I'm sure the police have a feeling he is, Im sure the Harrington's have a feeling he is. If you want to help Morgan and the Harrington's, make phone calls, post up posters, or simply PRAY. Don't sit here and blame Morgan and don't sit here and blame everyone else because it is a waste of time. It happened....and noone can take back their actions. NOONE.
Praying all day for the Harringtons and commend those who have done so much to help them! 241
Well, because I did that one to death, even looked into private runways, people with private planes, all in North Garden. However the person who told me that wasn't likely I trust would know that her injuries wouldn't be the same.
Morgan's father John.
Also, about the plane. Thank you for your explanation but...I would think someone would see a helicopter or plane fly over. That seems like such a ridiculous and long process.If you feel that this could be a real possibility, maybe research airports and pilots around the area. I feel that Morgan (i am terribly sorry that this is detailed) could have been ran over, beaten, or animals could have broken her bones post death.I feel like those are the most likely options...
Thanks for the info, questioner1. Father of the victim making completely ludicrous statements warrant a second look, if you ask me.
And I'm not beyond considering that coyotes got her after she was killed, but then again I didn't get to view her remains.
John....How is anything that Dan said a "ludicrous statement"? How is saying that her injuries were not consistant with a PLANE drop ludicrous?
John, I even looked into hot air balloons that take off not to far from AF. I still have all the info, but I'm just an armchair detective, nothing more, nothing less.
Hi Razorback, nice to see you also.
AICBond: " With all the pics of the necklace out there, the murderer would not take the chance on her keeping quiet about it."
Now that's humorous. I doubt if 1/10 of 1% of 1/10th of 1% of the population would recognize the necklace if they saw it. No disrespct to Morgan, but her death, and that necklace really do not mean anything to the vast population of the US. I would be willing to bet that even most residents of Albemarle County would be able to pick the necklace out of a group of three pictures of totally different necklaces.
How is suggesting that shattered bones is inconsistent with a plane, helicopter, hot air balloon, blimp, paraglider, hovercraft, or flying saucer drop anything BUT ludicrous is the real question.
Why oh why has Courtney's brilliant article gotten so derailed here? This is Courtney's space and place and all these wild weird theories are ridiculous and take this case further away from moving towards solving it. What is up? As someone said above, is this about entertainment? Most ppl are simply rehashing the same old same old and don't you know this much exhaust the victim's family?
On another note, many here seem to think that this is some special and unusual case or murder. Folks, it's not. This sort of crime being sexually violent and involving stalking their prey prior to the event is sadly a daily event in this country and world. J'me is probably along with the cops and majority in that this is just another sick sexual murder done by Sketch who is a deranged monster, but clever enough to evade justice so far. He's a repeat offender and obviously has learned.
Personally, I don't think Sketch is still around, if in fact he was from C'ville. Too much focus and attention to stick around this last year. Can't ppl go to Google maps and research locations now fairly easily? Lots of preplanning can occur now due to tech advances and he could have found out about AF through hearing it from friends or connections as well as having gone there before. It's just that I personally don't think he had to know AF intimately to have placed Morgan there. I think sometimes ppl either give Sketch too much credit in some areas and not enough in others.
Also all the bloggers who swore Morgan would never ever in a million years and including her parents would hitchhike have been wrong. They say she would never have met a man as Sketch either. But if she was looking to make a small drug connection in the parking lot or arena that night, she could have easily met someone like Sketch. Morgan is not some fixed persona or a doll. She was an evolving changing person capable of many things that we have no clue about including light and dark sides of one's personality. I think ppl but her in this box in their head and fix her there.
Also I think she took Ecstacy before and if she did that night, it is known to make ppl throw up and feel claustrophobic or having panic attacks, maybe explaining why she left the arena that night in such haste or without thought of getting back in. It aso causes the user to feel less inhibited, wanting to touch and be open and close with everyone, so if this is the case, her boundaries may have been down and could have put her at risk. It cause an increase in heat in the body, maybe tricking her to feel warm even as she was in very cool rainy weather, or allowing her to stay outside longer. IDK but she did have a reported history with this drug. Maybe her friends meant by their saying "if they had known they would not have done things the way they did", that had they known she'd taken a drug like this they would have done things another way.
Who knows? I don't but I do think focusing on this young woman with all her complexities and natural tendencies along with focusing on the MO of these evil sexual violent predators tells more of the real story of what happened that night. Not exotic or rare, happens very sadly to women and kids every single day. To pretend Morgan is special does a disservice to finding justice for her.
PS. I think the AicBone is really Walker as the more she posts it sounds just like the poster Walker over at Blinks. JMO and nothing more. I'm waiting for the enthusiastic retort momentarily. Or that Q1 and Aic bone is the same poster. Something is up with the posts over the last day, just too similar and out there ect. MOO
Oops I forgot those fan-parachute things that Moe from the Simpsons rescued starving children with.
John - I really am not certain why Morgan's body couldn't have been dropped from a plane because we have been told that she had shattered bones.
This is what I found on shattered bones:
A comminuted fracture as such is very complicated, but, if it an open one, then there are chances of the bone getting infected too. Such open comminuted fractures take much longer to heal, when compared to other types of bone fractures. Normally, bones are tough and do not yield to mild pressure. It requires a forceful pressure for a bone to get fragmented. Comminuted fracture causes include vehicular trauma, severe fall, bullet injury, etc.
Sis - Sorry if me being here bothers you. I was at Find Morgan at the beginning, and I will be here attempting to figure this out until the end. Courtney did a wonderful job with this article, and by no means am I attempting to side track anyone. And, she is also able to tell who is who here, I am no one other than Questioner1. Thank you.
Well, how do you know Dan Harrington? Just asking.
John - I just answered that above. I was researching at Find Morgan forum.
Sis
Why does who I am interest you so much? What does it matter who I am? Do you know either Q or Walker? FWIW you do not interest me in the least.
Oh, ok. I thought you might have been a reporter who had met him personally who didn't want to reveal their real name on this comment board. But it's still strange and he's probably made that ludicrous statement to the Hook as well if they asked the same question regarding a severe fall.
I trust him to know, he viewed her remains as did Gil. Both spoke to the ME, and I'm certain that he would know.
Joe
AICBond: " With all the pics of the necklace out there, the murderer would not take the chance on her keeping quiet about it."
Now that's humorous. I doubt if 1/10 of 1% of 1/10th of 1% of the population would recognize the necklace if they saw it. No disrespct to Morgan, but her death, and that necklace really do not mean anything to the vast population of the US. I would be willing to bet that even most residents of Albemarle County would be able to pick the necklace out of a group of three pictures of totally different necklaces.
I do not find anything about the viscious death of Morgan humorous. The only one who has to care about the pictures of the necklace identifying him is the murderer. He will not take that chance.
Questioner, you don't bother me as much as amuse me and for you to be here is just fine with me. I've just noticed that the tone of this thread has devolved and some people sound like others elsewhere. Why you are focused on me referring to you in my post is unusual as I mostly was discussing the monster, estascy and other aspects. You are not that out there really, whereas some others have you beat by a mile.
John are you just mocking this case?
Joe, thank you for being the voice of reason and sanity here. It makes all the difference btw. As for the necklace, I think you are totally correct. This case is significant and high profile for the people that follow it, sadly, but the rest of the world has moved on and Morgan's jewelry being noticed by the majority ain't happening. Just the way it is. But you do put things in perspective in a way that contributes, so I hope you'll continue.
I'm not certain. I certainly hope you're right.
John
I asked you befor and you chose not to answer me. Are you a friend of Dan Harrington?
No, I'm not mocking the case anymore than the police are or the Hook is. What I see is a mockery being made of the investigation.
Not at the moment.
John - Is the only way that you would investigate this case, by conspricy theories? I am not one for tunnel vision, but.........
John
When the moment is up will you be friends again?
We'll have to meet each other first and make the decision at that point.
BBL .... Going to visit BOC to read what the obviously intelligent poster Walker has to say .
Questioner1, listen to the Alex Jones show almost every single day often twice a day, for six years as I have, watch all of his videos, and get a broader perspective of what's going on in the world, particularly behind the scenes, and maybe six years from now you'll see an unsolved murder case that looks like a CIA black op that's being covered up by law enforcement and the media as well. I don't know, it's worth a try though.
But you'll have to get off the fluoride too.
John....look in the mirror, and check your nose.
I smell a big giant stinking RAT. I see a flawed man who is trying to do something that others aren't willing or able to do in hopes of gaining some sort of respect.
And to help solve a murder, of course.
John - I know more about black ops than I wish I knew, but I just don't see how it could apply to this case. And I did read all that you wrote about the VT mind control, and the others that you posted about, just so that I was aware of what you were speaking of.
Well I guess we just don't see eye to eye, do we?
There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy, it's just you and me and Josef Mengele!
This sketch guy seems to get around . Very doubtful he is still in the locality as LE seem to be still on a fishing trip with the walk through . They are still back to square one , relying on the profilers who claim this person is familiar with the farm , is probably in the farm area at this time and they are getting close to him . This person of interest has had lots of time to relocate after the crime and subsequently after disclosure of discovery of his connection to the Fairfax crime . He is likely still alive , not in jail and long gone . The walk through would therefore be only of use to prod an informant . The reward needs to be worked increased on an ongoing basis . With broad based interest in the case it shouldn't be very difficult to raise funds and increase the reward on an ongoing basis .
I want my 150 grand too.
OK, I am not happy being compared to Walker, who says things I would never say about Morgan Harrington. Sis, you do not get a biscuit to-day!
I'll settle for 100.
Frank - I don't think that he's still in the area either. And what really bothers me is that VSP hasn't been constantly warning the UVA students as well as the public if they felt that the suspect was still in the area. I know that UVA put out a warning, but it was a little too late to be acceptable. I've suggested possibly Canada, but who knows.
Great posts Sis, Joe, really?, and JAB. We need to bring this back down to Earth. Sis is right that we need to keep from glossing everything over and making Morgan out to be this white virgin angel...it does her no good, and she'd probably rather be remembered for the cool, adventurous girl that she was. That's what drew me to Morgan in the first place. She could have been any one of our daughters, I don't care that she was drinking or doing drugs (how many weren't that night? And I agree that it sounds like she was on X.) She was out doing what young people do, but everything that could have happened wrong that night did. I'm not going to blame anyone, especially not UVa or the good people of Charlottesville. She was vulnerable, in a bad way, and the psycho evil predator found her. He's the one who's to blame. Sis, I agree that he could be from anywhere, not just Albemarle County. He may have scoped out the place beforehand, or knew it from years before.
I apologize, I can't remember who said it above, but we need to stop wondering about the hitchhiking and curtsying. Seems like such a waste of time for people (bloggers) to keep doubting what LE has said. I'm thankful for Courteney's article, and glad we have somewhere to read besides those blogsites that are bordering on libel. Let's not stink up this comment section.
Q Why do you think he might be in Canada? Kinda cold here no? Where shall I look for him?
I can think of a few more possibilities.
He could be back in his own country (ie Pakistan, Peru, Mexico, wherever)
I sometimes wonder if the Police do not already know who sketch is, and are waiting for more evidence, or to catch more of the perps. It seems almost impossible for them not to know.
I don't AIC, that had been my thinking quite awhile ago, because they have arrested some sex offends from Virginia in Canada.
Q.....Oh, Ok. Otherwise I could look for him.
Face Flash! Do you know/have you seen a close up pic of the guy who said he was in Peru when his dog burned in the housefire on Sutherland Jan 26? I have only seen a non distinctive pic of him with his new dog.
I have considered that he could have been hiding on the other side of the tracks with his dog, Blanca, and that is why Blanca had to die.....JMOO
No, I've never seen a picture of him. I do find the name of the dog interesting though.
John said "I smell a big giant stinking RAT. I see a flawed man who is trying to do something that others aren't willing or able to do in hopes of gaining some sort of respect."
Were you ever a spook yourself? You do have that spookable quality of being able to divert and muddy de waters.
Yes, me too. Could sketch be hiding in Blanca Island, Peru?
Likewise, swamp thing!
No, actually because Blanka is the name of someone that lives in the, Blandemar Estates.
Ohhhhhhhh, very interesting! To name your dog after a princess!
Swamp Thing, I will take that, tis better than Walker, anyway!
But it is better than Walker, Texas Ranger?
But seriously, CIA black op cover up all the way. I don't know what else to say.
So, you are thinking that someone connected to the CIA did this, for what reason?
Oh, come on! Is that a joke? For all the reasons I just mentioned, all of which you said you read.
Questioner , Where were the Virginians arrested in Canada ? Are you sure about that as i have never before heard of any perverts up here . This article by Courtney is well done but the premise in the heading is difficult to buy . " He's still here " Really ? If they know that then why the vague fishing expidition ? Why tell him they know he is still here and they are getting closer than he expects ? Mobility doesn't seem to be a constraint for him . He may be an immigrant , moves from community to community so even if he were married he would have obviously moved himself and family long ago . My guess of his whereabouts is that he went South or West in continental USA until he ran out of ground to run . Florida or the West coast .
No no, I read everything, but Morgan? As a payback for what? To make the Harrington's wonder what they might have done? You see, I'm not totally following your thinking on this sorry.
Not so much payback as eliminating the liability.
Bristol sex offender arrested in Canada
http://tinyurl.com/4uxg7qh
I don't think she was a member of the Delta force but I don't doubt Cho was a marine and had help doing what he allegedly did but has never been convicted of by a jury of his peers for obvious reasons.
For all I know, Cho is still alive. For all I know, Morgan is too.
I wish Morgan was still alive and her parents wouldn't be suffering so much.
Me too.
I just needed to sit back for a moment and reflect on everything that I've researched for over a year now. Some things I made connections on, some I didn't. The railroad track still interests me for many reasons. The T-shirt still puzzles me, and why LE doesn't seem to be concerned with it makes me wonder. Yes I know that AF is important but I just don't feel that LE should be putting all their eggs in one basket, so to speak. They must have reasons for doing so. I just wish we knew why.
Your presence Mother Earth is SO welcome here and thank you for the kind words of reason and appreciation. Out of respect to Courtney I do believe we should stay relatively rational and use reason. After all this is not the other blog site that borders on irrationality and libel.
That being said, AicB, are you really really comfortable making that claim on that poor man who lost his dog in a fire who was also in Peru when MH was found? I mean he's never said anything ugly about you? Basically you threw him under the bus by stating he was stalking Morgan that night. Did I get this right? Did I read more into it than what you wrote? Do you really believe this or do you want to throw as many innocent people as possible under a bad light so that you look like you are hard at work on this case? Is this a result of your hard work and research for this case? If so, I would venture to say the VSP are running circles around you and that you are amusing yourself by implicating anyone unfortunate enough to have anything to do with this case. I would say "shame" on you but I know you well enough by now to know you are incapable of emotions such as these. Earlier you mentioned "JB" aka Jenny Bass, can you leave this poor family alone?
To the Bass Family: from another neighbor: I am so so very sorry that you all as well have become unfortunate victims of this crime. That you must live everyday with the ugliness of this murder and all the implications that surround it. Including all of us posting and speculating. Me too. I think you all are decent, fine people who care deeply and am again sorry for those that just won't leave your name alone and would find a way to use your children and place them somehow in the midst of such dreadful suggestions. You deserve much better than what you've are receiving. Remember: no good deed goes unpunished-unfortunately.
Sis - I don't know about you, but I thank God for Mr Bass daily. He and the powers that be, led him out to that parcel of land the day he found Morgan. Yes, Jenny has had parties out there at her home, that makes her guilty of absolutely nothing more than living her life.
Pantera is even more hardcore than Metallica.
They may have more hard core fans, seeing that DimeBag Darrell was killed on stage at one of their events. It was one thing that I researched when I found out that Morgan had worn that shirt to the Metallica concert.
And it had been one of the things on my mind when she left the concert. That she had possibly worn that particular T-shirt so that someone that she didn't know but had wanted to meet could recognize her. I wonder if the Sheetz sighting has been vetted and isn't now of any importance. Courtney, if you are reading, is that sighting out?
Yes Sis you are spot on about the thankless courageous Mr Bass . The slander of him has essentially only been attempted from the get go by the W_ _ _h that runs that other Poopular blog . Currently she has the entire staff of the University painted as hypothetical murderer's with the executive of the U combined with the State involved in a convaluted cover up to avoid a liability claim . She makes the case that Lt Radar is being vague and wishy washy in his public statements to comply with the public cover up . Not mentioning the specific U but zeroing onto the farm is this cover up in action she claims . It is mystifying how she gets sponser money to finance libel and slander of the innocent and previous offenders trying to re_habilitate themselves .
AICBond : "The only one who has to care about the pictures of the necklace identifying him is the murderer. He will not take that chance."
He took the chance of abducting Morgan in plain site, he took the chance of killing her and leaving evidence, and he took the chance of disposing of her body where it could be/ would be found. You really think he's worried about the necklace trapping him up?
Thanks for your posts sis and Mother Earth.
As far as Morgan being placed on AF, imo the location is 100% random, well, maybe not random, but imo he had no ties, past or present with AF, OR the surrounding area.. Whether or not the bad guy set out that night to abduct and kill, or Morgan was a spur of the moment opportunity, I think he stumbled on AF by chance, or he had researched as a body dump location in advance. I think AF was picked because of it's remoteness, and he had absoutely no prior relationship there.
By the way Questioner1, I understand you still have a website in your endeavor to track down Morgan's killers. Didn't one of the members of your site state that they knew who Morgan's killer was; a lumberjack from Washington state maybe?
Excellent post Frank Speaker. "Yes Sis you are spot on about the thankless courageous Mr Bass . The slander of him has essentially only been attempted from the get go by the W_ _ _h that runs that other Poopular blog . It is mystifying how she gets sponser money to finance libel and slander of the innocent and previous offenders trying to re_habilitate themselves ."
Joe - I don't remember anyone saying that they knew who Morgan's killer was let alone a lumberjack from Washington State, where on earth did you hear that one?
Frank Speaker, it sounds as if you're saying there's rumors of a UVA connection. 7 Society perhaps?
Or is this W_ _ _ h speaking of Tech?
Questioner1,
The Railroad tracks/connection has been mentioned here a few times...By SJones and now by yourself. Can you expand on that topic? What are you thinking? Thank you
Questioner1,
The Railroad tracks/connection has been mentioned here a few times...By SJones and now by yourself. Can you expand on that topic? What are you thinking? Thank you
Well its all clear to us now, that whoever offed Dime Bag Darrell did it. Yes, thats right, it all makes perfect sense. And Morgan wore the shirt to tip off the dude that she was there to hook up with who in turn gave the killer of Dime Bag the signal to take care of Morgan. Why didn't I think of this? And the motives for all of this have now fallen into perfect place.
Except, this got into the way of the CIA who were also poised ready to take Operative Harrington out because of her father's Hindi and Urdu speaking connections who had threatened to reveal Cho's financial backing and blow up the entire underground Tibetan Mandala Art Ring (which incidentally was based out of AF) and (the reason for why the helio dropped Operative Harrington there, to expose that ring and further functioned to tip off the operatives living in the Rental House to breed dogs that ran over the Tibetan/Nepali border covertly to trip up the Chinese armies the CIA was paying off to keep the doctor quiet) (because of Va Tech's connection to Cho's victims).
Then the plane they had waiting to take Operative MHarrington away and destroy the evidence got shelved and Dime Bag's killer had to pay off Kickee who also owns a helicopter, but only after Operative MHarrington kicked Kichee which gave Kickee the notice to call and arrange the helicopter but he thought it was to transport Dime Bag's killers body instead of Operative MHarrington's. Kickee was only into the money aspect of all of this and did not know of the broader implications.
Obviously. This is of course how utterly preposterous many of you sound and I fear for your sanity.
It's hard for even someone like me to imagine Morgan Harrington being a mind controlled assassin, but when I think of Pantera I think of crazed Marines headbanging to their noise, honestly.
I'm taking a lot of flak. I think I'm just about over the target.
DC Dame - Well, the railroad tracks go thru the area at JPJ, they run east and west, north and south, and south they run not to far from Anchorage Farm. Some of us had wondered if Morgan wasn't taken that way. I had mapped it out at one time.
The target John was when the shirt was placed on the bush.That was the signal that the mole had finally gone dark.
I'm not worried about the flak John, better people than these have attempted unsuccessfully to make me and others look bad, but if you notice, they have nothing important to bring to the table. They are just here to listen to themselves talk.
Questioner 1,
That is very interesting. Has there ever been any mention by VSP about interest in the tracks? Do people hang out around those tracks? Have there been issues with violence or crime around the tracks? Thanks.
At first I was pretty sure Morgan had blacked out on the tracks under Copeley bridge where there's a path leading down a steep embankment from the bridge, over the tracks and towards portapotties in the Uhall lot, but the CandO line runs east to west, not north to south.
There might have been hoboes though.
DC Dame - No, they have never mentioned the tracks, it's just my own wondering. They just seemed to be the most likely dark place there at JPJ Arena, then when I saw that they also went out to the farm, it made me wonder.
I imagine there probably were.
I guess it was a place where transients hung out though, according to some of the locals.
Just like there were on the grassy knoll.
Questioner dear, I don't think it is possible to make you all look bad. But to say others here are attempting to bother you all isn't fair. Joe, Mr. Speaker, Mother Earth and JAB, ect. have contributed a lot to this discussion and make their points well. They've all been respectful so I don't understand your need to put them and us, down.
Q1, If Transients hang out around the tracks, that would be significant.
Were any items found during searches that could have been related to Morgan?
There were many rumors. Do you know? thank you.
Sis - I didn't mean you, I didn't mean anyone other that those who you yourself can read comments from directed toward me. As I said last evening, I'm not here to argue.
DC Dame - I know that there was a piece of black cloth, have no idea what that was, we never heard, and also a burner phone - throw away phone found, as far as I know that was it.
Like a disposable camera, except only a phone?
Yes, like a disposable phone.
Never heard of such a thing. Sounds fishy.
Q1, I had not heard about the phone.
I had heard about a jacket. But, it may have been a rumor.
I wonder how far the train tracks are from Morgan's resting place..
Thank you dear.
Train tracks run in all directions everywhere thruout the USA , an network of tracks . A lot of crimes happen around train tracks near stopping points because they are dark & secluded.Many transients do still catch a ride on empty traincars , not passenger cars. But I do not see any connection whatsoever in the tracks with Morgan's case.
Train tracks run in all directions everywhere thruout the USA , an network of tracks . A lot of crimes happen around train tracks near stopping points because they are dark & secluded.Many transients do still catch a ride on empty traincars , not passenger cars. But I do not see any connection whatsoever in the tracks with Morgan's case.
DC Dame - I'm really not certain, but they are on the other side of 29 south from where Morgan's remains where on the farm land.
Q.....there was a RSO working at Piedmont Parking, who was black. Railway tracks lead there, I think (all of this is from memory) I do not recall his name right now.
Yeah there was - probably still is. And also not far from where the T-shirt was found. I can't remember how many blocks away now actually.
Regional Security Officer?
Sis, I had some Campbell's Tomato Soup for supper. How about you?
Registered Sex Offender
Sounds sketchy.
Dave, please stop the comments on this thread.
Who's Dave?
Hmmmm, interesting.......
Things that make you go hmmmm....
Buster, re your 8:25pm comment. I am sitting here LMAO. I can hardly breathe.
How would you know the RSO's name in the first place, Bond?
The registry, I guess.
CIA black ops are hilarious.
Well, you can look them up in Virginia, and many other places so that you know who lives around you. But I guess they don't want us talking about this.
Campbell's soups are far too salty for me AicBone, but I am delighted that you enjoyed your dinner. I have no idea if you are speaking to me in some sort of code language, but feel free to speak your mind, dear as we all are seemingly becoming some sort of horrifying dysfunctional family unit.
To Courtney, I hope so much that you will consider to write a book on this case when it is solved as I do believe you'd be excellent and thorough and just the correct person to tell this story. Plus you have all of your devotees here that I am sure simply drive you batty at times. You are a good sport and also possess the patience of a saint dear Courtney.
Heaven forbid we would talk about whys to protect ourselves and our children.
Sounds more like they don't want them reading about this.
I'm glad I made someone laugh today Mother! I just had to ya know? It was hanging out there begging for somebody to do it. But thanks. And how it continues............
Your conscious mind is going into mental contusions because your subconscious mind keeps yelling at it "there might be something to this" but your conscious mind is not at all willing to face the implications of there being something to this so it makes jokes to calm itself down.
I feel so bad for all the innocent black people who live around C'ville and North Garden. Do we even really know if the sketch man is African American or another race maybe? Just to make my point known, I was certain it was another twisted perverted white guy that did this as it looked like a white dude crime.
John, whats a mental contusion?
You're a mental contusion, Buster.
John, I cannot remember his name right now, but I looked him up on Charlottesville Sex Offenders probably, when I was doing some checking on where the train tracks led (it was long ago now) (I do remember being startled that he was so close to the college campus etc.)
Just for the record, for what it's worth, I don't feel that the sketch is a black man.
SD, if it is any help to you I think there was also a white twisted dude guy involved here.
OK John, I know you're angry at me and its all good Buddy. My spiel way back wasn't only aimed at you. But if you need to say I'm a mental contusion so be it. All in good fun even as some us slowly lose our minds over wanting to make this case interesting and unique.
It's always interesting when someone gets murdered. Unique? It happens every day.
But they're usually solved much sooner than this.
Q, Le will know positively if "sketch" is black or not. (from his DNA) I thought they said he was black, or at least accepted the testimony of the 2005 victim who said he was black.
I cannot imagine them being irresponsible enough to lead peeps to believe he is black if they know he is not.
However, if the sketch is to be believed, (which I doubt, since it has many technical errors in it which could not be possible for a normal human being unless he had some kind of syndrome.) then he looks at least part Arabic.
I'm losing my mind thinking about 150 thousand dollars!
Deleted by moderator.
Deleted by moderator.
John, yes they are usually solved very quickly, especially if a low level high functioning, sex offender is involved. They are just not smart enough to outsmart LE (I hope) That is why we are looking at professional military/CIA/SS etc. If this is all way off base, then LE should have arrested some peeps long ago.
Of course, they could just be saying there was DNA found. They could be making it all up. How many are going to get to have their own piece to test themselves. How convenient that there is a very limited amount.
By the way, to the one who mentioned my blaming something on JB. I did no such thing, nor do I in any way think this has anything to do with her and the scrolls etc. I was merely mentioning the fact that she drew some of the same type of figures Morgan had in her work, and the art teacher and others did as well. If you do not understand what I am saying, then ask, but do not jump to ridiculous conclusions. (the scrolls are nothing to do with Morgan IMO) Sometimes a teacher of art will influence a lot of students. that is why they call certain old paintings which are unsigned "the school of"
Re the guy with the dog, who said he was in Peru when he was not (tell me that lie does not arouse at least a look)
Hold up, the guy WASN'T in Peru???
I had never heard that Morgan's mother said she was a sacrificial lamb until today but that raises alarm bells in my head too.
John what does Gil's bro have anything to do with the way Sketch's eyeballs look? I mean how in the world is this piece of news meaningful whatsoever Dude? Are you in this for the dough?
The guy with the dog did it!
Probably nothing but a coincidence in a sea of them.
Deleted by moderator.
Q, that was widely reported on many different forums at the time. re Peru.....ie one peep said
his IP was coming from Charlottesville when he was saying he was in Peru, and also he said fire marshall called him in Peru about his dog (or something like that) taxing me memory here...
Hmmmm, I never heard that.
Well I'm out for the night, be safe people.
Re the dough
I personally cannot think of one person whom I have ever heard of who actually got an award for catching a criminal....IDK, but certainly no one talking on the net like we are could possibly get an award for any reason. It is a joke for anyone to think they could....John know this.......
John, was the lamb from the Middle East? They do that sacrificial stuff over there a lot. What connection are you thinking she was making? Does this have anything to do with her brother living over there?
Re: John saying the guy in Peru did it. No he did not. It was Colonel Mustard in the Conservatory with the Candlestick.
Q.....Nite. I am going to.
Nite Brooke and Bone
SD......BTW I have not chatted with Brook in months.
Questioner1: " Joe - I don't remember anyone saying that they knew who Morgan's killer was let alone a lumberjack from Washington State, where on earth did you hear that one?"
I believe it was from one of your site's members who has visions, or dreams? Iirc, they were a member of FM before it went away, and then they joined your site.
Joe that'd be Ginger or AceBone as earlier here it said it had some visions of white vans, trailors, on and on psycho stuff. Walker over there is convinced of a Tibet art connection and sounds allot like Johnny G over here does. The deal I think is they are over there with names and come over here with new names and several of them sound like the same person. Like AintBone and Question1 do, pretty sure they are one and the same as they post on top of each other, pose questions the other play off of, go to bed the same time each nite, have Campbells soup for dinner ever nite and on and on. All of em take tons of creative license with the old imagination and other peoples reps if you hadn't noticed already. If you confront em they don't anser but divert with another question or something you said and twist it. Have you noticed that thye all seem to have left Blinkies and come over here to spread the luv?
Perhaps she would have appreciated the sentiment in which they were left, but I have to wonder if Morgan wouldn't have winced a little at all the country music videos being left as tributes on on FB page.
To me, the "imperfections" that certain group members want to suppress are what made Morgan such a beautiful soul in the first place. She wasn't sitting around studying on a Saturday night, she was at a heavy metal concert LIVING her life to the fullest. No one has suggested that, but some of the revisions to her character are just as nauseating.
I don't know why so many of the "dedicated" want to revise her life and edit her into someone that she wasn't. In my opinion, the "real" Morgan Harrington is so much more endearing than the "pure as the driven snow" version of her some folks that didn't even know her have constructed. To me, remembering her accurately as she was (controversial aspects and all) is the sincerest way to pay respect and tribute her life.
Questioner1, my aplogies. It wasn't posted on your site; it was on Topix, but the post mentioned she posted on your site. It also was not a lumberjack; it was a zoo worker. Post #850 Morgan Harrington Murder: Virginia state police tie Fairfax assault...
Morgan's distinct, almost one-of-a-kind necklace could lead Law Enforcement straight to her murderer. All that's needed is for one brave person to come forward and tell them under what circumstances they came in contact with it. That even if they just saw one laying out on someone's dresser they should report it. I commend those who are distributing the flyers and would like to see "America's Most Wanted" run a story on it (emphasizing it's very unique features).
JAB, this is good and true, you've hit the nail on the head. Her fans most of whom have never known her, have put her on this untouchable pedestal that keeps her aloof and remote. I do personally believe for the most part it is mostly middle aged or older types doing this and confusing who they think Gil is with Morgan. The family has also done this in all fairness in my viewpoint. The PR firm as well. This whole shiny girl persona characterizes Morgan as one who didn't have a bad day. Until of course the day she died.
Even the detectives being silent about the drug screen too plays into all this when we know she had a recreational drug history. There was talk of her in rehab at one point. Who cares?
If I were her family I would strive to preserve Morgan in all her beauty and flaws. Flaws make one more available to others, more real, b/c we all possess them. I guess in death one thinks of only the good which is all fine and well, except when you're trying to solve a murder. There is information I do believe that occurred possibly the day she died that would help others remember more, but the commitment to her facade seems to matter more.
Personally, and this is my view only, I get annoyed to be asked to help out and keep the fires going for Morgan when we are only getting a piece of the and her story. People will say it doesn't matter what she did or how she behaved b/c it is ultimately the murderer that matters. However in solving the case, who she was in her totality matters. She was incongruous, she hitch hiked, she did drugs, she left her friends, she locked her room in her own apt, she had trouble it appears being independent of Mom and Dad. A woman this attractive and we don't know if she dated much throughout her high school years or college. Her friends don't sound like best friends to me, but surely she had others we don't hear from. In most young people's deaths there is an abundance of young people coming forward and gushing about their friend and we don't find this to be obvious with Morgan. Which is alright, as some people are loners or more shy, introspective. But she also showed this side of flamboyance and risk taking. It is confusing when we are trying to understand this young girl's behavior that night that led to her death. Her parent's don't fully seem to know the real deal either, but this is usually always true of a girl her age withholding info from Mom and Dad. But they say one thing and later we learn it isn't true.
If she used that drug Extasy, then why not look at the possible drug deals that were taking place that day and evening? Someone in that realm may know more but afraid to talk for fear of being charged somehow. And this is what I think is the problem, that there is so much highly charged information about Morgan out there that paints her into this "angelic" light that those that knew another side of her are fearful of coming forward and speaking of another Morgan. I'm not sure I blame them either. If this is the result of the PR firm then it is and has been counter productive. Thanks for presenting another view to discuss here beside the alien abduction sidelines we are getting here. It is refreshing to think and speak about Morgan as a beautifully talented, life loving girl who had her issues. In the end my intuition tells me we will find another story that led to her demise, one that no one will dare speak of or venture into.
>>Posted by John Giuliano February 23rd, 2011 | 9:36pm
"It's always interesting when someone gets murdered. Unique? It happens every day."
Sorry John G , Really ? You think it's always interesting when someone gets murdered ??? I believe that is truly a "sick" statement to make . Most would think it a travesty , a terrible event but you find it interesting?
In total agreement with you Alabamy Mom. Some of these comments are callous and casual to a degree I've not seen before. I guess everyone thinks their opinions must be expressed and conveyed regardless of their content and value system.
SJones, Your post is welcomed. I looked at the points (GPS) that you suggested a few days ago. I see the markers you mentioned. Are you hinting that the marker near Morgan's final resting spot has some significance as far as the murderer? or to the path the murderer would have taken? Your perspective is valued. I hope that we can all ignore the people that are trying to be humorous on this board. Every point of view is important, but alot of personal banter is counter productive. I welcome your thoughts.
Does anyone know what the trucks are called that can ride on the rails?
I just found them, they are called Hi-rail trucks
http://tinyurl.com/4uz9usd
Difficult to understand why the public announcement this person with the DNA identified is still here . Do they feel he is not sufficiently sophisticated to skip to another state/country ?.Anyone who could snatch this charsmatic full of life young girl without detection and hide her in that remote location should be very resourceful in relocating and hiding himself . They are certainly giving him ample notice to do so ,sort of a delayed last call to disappear if he has not done so long ago . Yet they are also telling him they still have the element of surprise stacked against him .This could be a ruse ,however,with them having knowledge of who he is and that he is elsewhere say in DC giving him false sense of security ; but why bother ? What could be gained by such an exercise in real terms of bringing the case forward . Makes no sense other than some PR to justify budget expense and featherbedding . It seems to be a plea for someone to solve the case for them at best as they are requesting the murderer to kindly remain vanished ..
Questioner, Do you feel these railroad vehicles have been looked into by the police investigating the case? Do they run in the evening?
@alabamamom This is not entertainment;it's real life. However, I dare say all of us commenting (Yes that includes you!) find this murder interesting or we would not be posting. We'd ignore it like we do countless other news stories with countless other victims and families equally deserving of justice and our sympathy.
John has many strange facets to his posting; however, his interest in murder is not one of them. As unfortunate as it may be, murder IS interesting. That is why there are countless television shows (both real and "fiction") that focus on the subject. That's why you'll find several "Whodunit?"-style murder mysteries on the New York Times Bestseller list on any given month. I know individuals that work as crime scene techs and a dear friend who is a medical examiner--I'd dare say their interest that you may classify as a travesty no doubt makes our world a better place to live in. I'd also say the field of sociology and criminal justice have benefited immensely by individuals who were interested in the subject.
@Sis I had not heard about the alleged drug history or rehab. Like you said, things like that (that many people and families struggle with) just makes her all the more real and easy to relate to. I remember reading about how she locked her room in her apartment due to her jewelry collection--made me smile as I invested in a safe to keep my jewelry collection safe when I was in college haha
SJones, Do you mean that you think the people who may hang around the train tracks saw her with someone and that is who the LE want to come forward? Or do you think those individuals are responsible for the crime? If you are feeling they witnessed something but have not come forward, is it because you think they fear LE?
Do you feel these people may be in the marijuana production and distribution business?
SJones, Yes. We can all hope.
The people who hang around the railroad tracks: do you feel they may be involved in drugs and that is why they will not approach the police about seeing Morgan, if she was there?
Can you please explain "one would have to know Skyler and her pain"???
Thank you.
Thanks JAB for getting my point. When people are on pedestals they invariably fall hard and become alienated due to others' projections. I do feel some people have overcompensated for Morgan for all sorts of reasons, perhaps because she is not here to defend herself. But what is mistaken I do believe is that sometimes simply telling the facts of anothers' life including flaws and weird behaviors, addictions, idiosyncratic tendencies, get translated to "criticism" and speaking ill of the dead. In trying to assist solving a crime there is no place for this sort of neurotic overcompensation in my view. Facts are facts, like the hitchhiking and cursing etc.., so to ascribe a morality or ethic to this and try to negate or diminish it in light of what has occurred is fruitless. The poor girl did what she did that night and is now gone due to a violent act.
Morgan was an average, to above average, young girl with talents and looks but also weaknesses and blind spots. I also recognize her parents think she is the most remarkable girl that has ever lived, which is how it should be for them. However that fateful night, her weaknesses contributed to her undoing which is deeply tragic. Still we must use her story as a cautionary tale to other young girls reveling in their 'immortality'. I know you know this, I'm just going off, sorry.
One thing I would like to say that I've not seen elsewhere and I'm sure it will go over like a ton of bricks is this: not every young girl or woman gets drunk, and overdoes it in those times of college and partying. It seems most everywhere I read people want to associate themselves back in those days to be like Morgan that night. Saying things like "when I got drunk and passed out in the apartment full of men, I ended up so lucky that my friend arrived in time" or some such other adventurous reckless story as not to place Morgan in a one down position perhaps. I can appreciate the sentiments, but am saying that in college I knew many women who rarely drank, did not experiment with drugs, took great pains to be safe at all times College for me was serious business and a one time opportunity, I did not have the luxury of living it up and I knew what I wanted to accomplish and how well I did it mattered. This is not about Morgan, this is about the wide variety of behaviors and attitudes women everywhere participate in. I am saying this to put another perspective on this as I've seen enough of these posters saying this sort of thing and I think it does a disservice to representing all women. Crimes happen whether women drink, act out, are reckless, etc...it was not Morgan's fault theoretically, but I have used Morgan's story as an example of one losing their way, when we take our safety for granted, to my nieces,granddaughters, and friend's children. JAB I do enjoy your posts here as your well balanced opinions are not only needed but refreshing of late in particular.
S Jones: I had a conversation that reminded me of you as the person sounded just like you, oddly enough it took place in a grand old, famous Palace that I think you would have appreciated from the little I know of you. You had mentioned your love of fine things and architecture elsewhere...good to see your posts.
“Psychopaths are master deceivers, carefully creating and then preserving their masks. The positive first impressions they make are long-lasting because we trust our initial judgments of people”.
“Psychopathic killers often find great pleasure in torturing victims. Some scientists consider them evil…..evil in that their diabolical savagery has no psychological explanation”.
“Psychopaths have a shared quality, their eyes are different! The extreme psychopath's gaze has been described as unsettling, creepy, cold, piercing, empty, reptilian, not quite human.
“Psychopaths cannot feel compassion or guilt. They'll kill a human as easily as a fly. They can charm when needed, and they can ruin people's lives on a whim. Their main trait is being phenomenally selfish”.
“Russian serial killer Alexander Pichushkin said he didn't take money or jewelry from his victims.”I didn't need it. I took the most valuable thing, human life. I felt like God."
“A predator commits appalling crimes, but always chooses easy targets and uses sly lures to his traps, then launches sneaky attacks. His criminal mind ensures his total domination by leaving little, if anything, to chance”.
Crime-Safety-Security.com
Bilfar - All things that you posted above are so accurate. What concerns me is that this particular preditor took chances, and unless he/she was absolutely certain that no one would be home at the Blandemar Estates, that no security cameras there, or security personel would be there did he choose the location that he did to place Morgan's body where he did. Most preditors are careful not to put themselves into any type of trap, such as a cul-de-sac, a dead end street, etc. They always need to have a quick access and a quick exit. Why in this case doesn't he/she seem concerned about that?
Yes I did, I still have them.
It is very possible Morgan realized she was about to die and unleashed an attack so vicious that it left her killer seriously injured. I can see this master deceiver staging an accident in order to cover up what really caused his injuries. What do you say we look to see how many 30 to 40 year old black men were treated in Emergency Rooms within a hundred mile radius of Charlottesville, a week or two following Morgan's disappearance?
Why do you rule out the first gate on Red Hill Road? That way is not visible to any houses. Going down that small piece of land to the right of the river he would not be seen by anyone. And it is easy. The gates were not locked Perhaps he never got near inhabited areas. He had checked it out, and he knew he would not be seen because the trees block any Blandemar sight of him and the hills block Anchorage, and the trees in front of Red Hill Road block any passing cars. He could have dropped her over the fence into the field she was found and put her where he thought she wouldn't be seen by hunters because Bass uses the field and hunters don't go there? Perhaps, and I apologize for this, he also left her unhidden so animals would find the body. It was still warm in Albemarle at that time. That, and possibly having knowledge Bass wouldn't be cutting it until spring would make it a perfect spot. He had to know that no one would see Morgan there.
AN - I really don't rule any of those unlocked gates off Red Hill Rd out. I'm just going with the senario that VSP feels was the entrance point. There is a clearing inside that grove of trees where I think that the old Blandemar Farm house once stood, there is also an unlocked gate not too far from that point. To me, that would be the safest point of entry, LE feels otherwise.
I wasn't aware that the VSP had committed to an entrance point. Can you tell me where you found that. I would like to read their thoughts. Thanks.
Q I think it's because he comes from a Special Forces background. That he learned the fine art of "blacked out", "noise suppressed" All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) use during his stint in Afghanistan. This is where he also learned the use of Night Vision Goggles (NVG's). Between the two he ruled the night with no chance of being detected. That he took the hardest route imaginable to get to where Morgan was found. That evidence of this journey should still be out there. Bloodhounds might still be able to detect exactly which way he came and left.
AN - I can not, sorry, I may be incorrect, perhaps VSP hasn't committed to any specific location as the entrance point. Interesting................
Bilfar - I would imagine that LE does know, but hasn't told the public. If they used bloodhounds to find Morgan's scent at the JPJ Arena, Copley Bridge, and west toward the Foods Of All Nations, then they should have done the same with the entrance point.
No, I don't still have those maps. And yes, FOAN is west of the bridge.
It seems to me that really the only way to hide Morgans body would have been to have buried her. He didn't to my knowledge. If he dumped her in that field, there was the risk that animals could have dispersed ? her body maybe even to places that would be seen by others. IMO dumping her in a field no matter how remote, when its on someones personal property, there is a risk. Why did he place her in a remote field vs. putting her off the side of a road? IMO its b/c she had potentially too much damaging evidence on her that he didnt control. Still the more complete way to have disposed of her was to bury her. Instead he took an awful lot of time and energy to haul her up there. When he could have buried her closer to the gate or nearer the road in the woods. Time to bury her closer to a road vs. time it took to carry her up to that field=same time basically. IDK so much of this makes little sense to me.
Nat Brege - That's what has always bothered me. Why take her there? Why not bury her, why not take her to a large body of water, and why inflict the injuries on her body that he did? I'm just reading up on the serial rapists:
Anger-retaliatory rapist: He feels animosity towards women and wants to punish and degrade them. Often he is a substance abuser. He is impulsive and has an explosive temper. He looks for an opportunity to commit the rape rather than for a specific victim. He attacks spontaneously and brutalizes the woman into submission. Thirty percent of rapists fall into the anger-retaliation category. He will grab you from behind and drag you into the bushes. He will often beat you to near-unconsciousness before committing the rape. Any level of resistance may well enrage him and cause him to beat the hell out of you until he gets what he wants. He's not looking to kill you, but the beating could be fatal. You do not want to challenge or enrage this type of rapist. You could try to escape. If you cannot get away or incapacitate the assailant, it's best to submit and try to limit the level of violence of the assault to the extent that you can.
http://tinyurl.com/5saknc2
For the record S.Jones, Q never made any maps for me, nor did I request any of her. I do not believe the railroads had anything to do with Morgan's abduction. My theory is Morgan became a spur of the moment target of opportunity when some one driving by witnessed an attractive young lady, alone, and not 100% in control of her senses.
Nat --- Spur of the moment unplanned crime ,i doubt he intended to murder anyone. Looks like he ,therefore,tried hard to hide her .Maybe didn't know where he was ,went into a wooded area then got himself back out . Likely went through the back field or unlocked gated roads then to the little opening ,dropped her and got back to his vehicle . No burial as he probably had no digging instrument . The minute details of where she was picked up and ended up are not so important to be hung up on as we have the essential picture of the sequence of events . The mystery of her disappearance is answered and the person responsable , though unnamed seems to be identified .
Just reading here about an EMT from NY, that had committed many rapes. He used a universal elevator control key that was issued by the FD employees to get into places such as the subway and elevators. Also, many transit workers are issued the keys.
Also:
Copies of the keys also routinely fall into the hands of members of the general public; transit officials seize dozens each year from riders who use them to sneak into the subways.
SJones - To be perfectly honest, it's been so long now. I can remember you asking for those railroad maps, even those further up than Culpeper, but I don't remember if Ross asked for them also, or not.
Sorry, if I'm wrong on something that I say, I will admit it, and if I can't remember something I'm honest that I can't rememver.
I've heard that the serial rapist in Charlottesville had been caught, but now I'm beginning to wonder because this man has only been linked to two of the rapes? Am I correct or wrong on this?
http://tinyurl.com/6cqhcl6
http://readthehook.com/86185/cover-arrested-decade-after-first-known...
Q, Do you feel this perp is an A/R rapist?
I saw your post above.
DC Dame - On the surface it would appear that he is because he also beat the 2005 victim, but in reading about this other serial rape suspect that was arrested in Charlottesville who had a good job, a family man, never was convicted of anything else in his life, I'm beginning to wonder about that thinking. Although the Charlottesville rapist seemed to have been watching the victims that he encountered. None of them seem to have any self control. Sorry if this is confusing, I think as I write.
I can see where LE really has their work cut out for them. Not only do they need to figure out what this guy is about, they also need to figure out how he would tie in to AF. I mean that's been the problem from the beginning, but in reading everything that I can find on serial rapists, this person could be anyone, from any walk of life. And I say....duh.
I've heard that the serial rapist in Charlottesville had been caught, but now I'm beginning to wonder because this man has only been linked to two of the rapes? Am I correct or wrong on this?
__________________________________________________________
He was connected through DNA evidence to at least seven of the attacks. They just initially charged him with the two most brutal. He pled guilty to 4 as part of a deal and agreed to give the police information about his other attacks. He got 4 life sentences so there was no need to keep prosecuting him -- which the victims probably appreciated.
SJones,
I am interested in the train tracks. I am also wondering if there are people who hang around them regularly who may have witnessed something with this crime, may know something but due to fear of police or personal criminal activity in the past, do not come forward.
Your mention above of a damn and throwing the beach ball is interesting. I assume you mean that you feel that was the entry point for the killer to take Morgan to the field. Is this a swimming or recreational spot that locals would frequent? Are groups known to congregate there?
I feel this crime was not committed by one person. Do you feel a woman is involved?
There have been rumors about Mrs. Harrington giving little hints in her statements. She does not mince her words. Do you feel she is trying to say things that she is not supposed to say? Why was a PR firm used?
I do feel from what I have heard from Law enforcement that the location was known by this killer.
I do not, however, feel that he is necessarily still there in Central Virginia.
The shirt is a very big thorn. Why there? Why then?
@Sis I can respect your views. I partied in college (one of the reason I related to Morgan's case) but I knew girls who didn't. I can honestly say I only knew a handful of ppl using drugs.
Alot to think about that I had not considered-like 2 perps. And the bracelet too. Jones you are right abut the jewelry being left behind, and there was an expensive gold ring too. Have people discussed the idea, but its terrible, that Morgan was held over a period of days, then murdered and discarded? That maybe the perp wasn't in a hurry that particular night she disappeared and had time to get another involved or plot out AF? How does Gil believe that Morgan did not suffer long and died that night? I hope she did die quickly though. But how would the cops know she was murdered that night?
Once Gil said something that chilled me to the bone and that was in her writings about Morgan in the field that night being chased down like a deer. Does anyone recalll this? If so how would she think thhis scenario would even be possible? If she was chased in the field then murdered, it could maybe explain how she was found where she was and with the jewelry. He just left her where he maybe shot her? IDK, it gets more gruesome this way but I just don't get how the cops and Gil have all come to their conclusions.
Nat-- More than one person involved with longer then that evening of time would have produced a different result wouldn't it . Two half wits don't make a whole one but they propably would have made an attempt to clean the victum of idendfying items such as jewerly,fingerprints,dna etc etc plus perhaps make the body disappear by burning,destroying,burying etc . This just looks like a lone wolf in more of a raged panic than is appreciated .Quite likely he was on alchol and drugs also .
Good points and makes sense, unless she escaped and ran off. Which would indicate she was held nearby. Still there is the jewelry.....but he left the jewelry anyway in the 1st scenario, but took her necklace. Still wondering why Gil thinks the cops knew she died that night-like what would give evidenc to this?
I'm new to all this, so sorry for repetitions. I'll go to the maps next.
Re entry policy at the venue disqualified MH from getting back in after walking out as she did not have the proper ticketing at that point in time . Given that the LE claim she was very intoxicated from drugs and or alchol and reported to be kicking a man in the lineup then there would be two other reasons to disqualify re-entry .The tragedy on many points is that she did not call home for help and advice rather than turn to strangers.
Q, I do not know if this will help or not. I was at the birthday celebration for Morgan. After the celebration was over, some decided to go look around from lannigan field. The others I was with decided to leave. I was the only one left in the parking lot not far from the tracks. I had things in my hands..keys, cell phone, camera, my hands were full, I walked down the tiered levels of the parking lot towards my car. I was alone. I looked back to see if the ones I was with left already, but my view of them were blocked by other vehicles. As I got closer to my car, something came rolling on the tracks, a white truck..it had the little wheels on it. It rolled to a slow speed then stopped, they man inside was staring hard at me, I looked around thinking, "what is he lookin for"...or "who is he lookin for"? He was literally half bent like over the steering wheel, but there was noone there but me..at this point I was next to my car, I got a little nervous cause I was trying to figure out what he wanted and he was just staring..I was gonna actually take a picture of him, but I looked down to see what I could do with holding the camera up and knew I would have to put some things down to get a picture of him, and walked a little closer to my car door and looked back up and he slammed those little wheels down on the tracks so hard, picked the bigger wheels up and took off so fast it wasn't even funny! I was going to take the picture to show to one of the mods on FM. I waited about 10 min to see if he would be back, I wasn't goin to wait any longer than that, besides that it was horribly hot outside. And even hotter in the car. But anyway, I see that people are curious about hi railers, and thought maybe his odd behavier might help people see or know that it really isn't that far fetched that not only are they there, but how fast they can move and be gone before you know it. They can be on and off those tracks so easy it's not funny. And they can go anywhere any reguler vehicle can. And I was parked in the RV lot that day. What he was lookin for I don't know. Well hope it might help. There is no doubt at all to me that a hi railer could be used in a crime like this. Not at all. Specially after seein that fine display of what they can do. It didn't feel too comfortable being alone there though. He didn't appear to be a very friendly lookin guy though. Another question comes to my mind though...don't they have to wear some kind of work uniform? Cause this guy wasn't even wearing one of those.
S.J.------I was spinning ideas about the shirt at the Poopular blog before i got kicked off there . .---Anyway the idea of her meeting one bad person ,getting away and being grabbed by a second bad person defies odds . The controversial boots,T-shirt,and necklace were likely separated from her in the vehicle involved . SUV, Truck,Van or more likely older tinted glass large sized NA car . What is the fav in DC/Baltimore/Richmond etc. Chev Caprice , Caddy ?? The T-Shirt and boots discarded in the dumpster right beside where the shirt was found . A dumpster diver put the shirt out considered not his style but left it for a younger person . Boots made it to the landfill and necklace is at the descretion of the BG . Maybe he carried it in the vehicle for awhile to later chuck it into the middle of a river he was crossing ...
Campbellhn - This is interesting. Does anyone local know what the hi-rail trucks look like? Are they indeed white? Also, why would he have picked up those little wheels if he had been already rolling on them down the track? I don't think that it would be strange that someone like him would have come upon Morgan in that area on Oct 17th, seeing that we have been told that there was no train traffic going or coming in that direction.
S.J. ----The killer probably has as many miner flaws as major flaws .Lack of detail is likely one of them . Logic might then dictate that he simply drove around for a few days with the boots and shirt in his vehicle and at some point decided the to chuck them into the dumpster . He doesn't destroy evidence , just throws it away somewhere (body and shirt) and someone subsequently stumbles on it . The sequence is quite logical in a fairly straight forward crime that is practically solved but not yet.So near but so far . They don't know who the guy is or Agent Capo wouldn't say the operative " the case WILL solve" . Not solved so why give him almost a coded message to skip ?
What failings made it possible for Morgan to fall victim to her killer that night? The main one I see is with the management of the arena. That they failed miserably the task of safeguarding Morgan is an understatement. Why no contingency plans knowing the level of alcohol and drug abuse that would be taking place on their property that night? Where was security? Why no properly trained staff supervision on duty? Someone to at least pick up the phone and call Police? Where were the adults here?
Q, he was comin down the tracks on his big wheels..then stopped..then was straring at what I thought was someone behind me maybe..but no one was there but me..as I went to open my car door he slammed the little wheels down very hard and drove off so very fast. He went under Morgans memorial and was just gone! I do not know if I did somlething that bothered him but I thought maybe I did because he took off like someone who has a road rage does . All I know is that I wasn't feelin very comfortable bein by myself there so I did not want to stick around there too long. I don't want to say he was up to no good but I know he did not make me feel very good.
What failings made it possible for Morgan to fall victim to her killer that night?
--------------------------------------------------
The security guard standing at the door watching Morgan dump out her purse once then was going to do it twice and he said not to, go buy another ticket. Two times he should have called someone to come and pick her up for intoxication.
Campbellhn - And I take it this info was turned in to VSP? You see, I don't know why they wouldn't think that this could have been possible that night. Unless of course they already know what type of vehicle may have picked Morgan up, a witness that saw something odd and a vehicle to go with it.
Very good points tonight and I am interested in a few things.
SJones,
Your map explanation is very appreciated. Thank You. I will study it.
I want to ask you something very important. You mention that you are blessed to have 2 very good
researchers that you consult with...Are they posting on this board? Are they local to the area? Are they trained in criminal research or are they simply very interested and want to help? Thank you. I am sure they are very good if you trust them.
Campbellhn, Your experience was very odd. I am sure it unnerved you. Thank you for sharing. The individual driving that vehicle sounds like someone who should be spoken to , even if to just learn more about this vehicle and how often it is used in the area. I think it holds some promise, but my hope is that Law enforcement has already looked into this activity.
Q, yes. I know VSP knows. I know FBI knows. What they have ruled out, I do not know. They don't tell me those things. If there was a witness to see something odd and a vehicle to go with it, I would be grateful for that.
SJones, Do your researchers work for you? Is that what you mean? I apologize if I am being too nosy, but I am trying to understand. Thank you.
DC Dame,
I wish they would find him and speak to him too. He looked dressed different for being a person who works on railroads. Like most of the ones I've seen around here, wear hard hats and stuff, or dark clothes. more uniformed type stuff, this guy looked dressed in a t shirt, and was just basic street dressed lookin. He did have a hat on, but it was just a plain ball cap. And bigger sun glasses. not clean cut hair but longer, kind of shaggy lookin, looked to be light brownish. Just from off the sun coming inside. I wasn't takin my eyes off of him, not as hard as he was lookin at me, or toward me!
Q I am certain the Harrington's have more than enough to sue the arena's pant's off. Still that won't bring their beloved daughter back.
What they need most now is for someone with information to send a letter to the following address: Virginia State Police P.O. Box 27472 Richmond, VA 23261
Campbellhn, I am glad you reported this to the VSP. It seems so odd and so dangerous if this person is not a train maintenance employee.
DC Dame,
Well, at the time, it did unnerve me, alot actually, I was shocked, scared, and I somewhat froze not knowing what I should do, I didn't know what he wanted or who or what he was lookin for. I was all alone, and didnt want to take my eyes off of him. Now lookin back after all this time, he looked more like a guy that just jumped up out the bed from somewhere, jumped into the truck and came down there for some reason or another. More than lookin like he was there to do any work at all. Maybe I made him more nervous or something. I don't know really, but whatever he was lookin for, I believe he missed it. if it was for anything to do with Morgan's birthday celebration, it was already over. He came to late. Maybe he was tryin not to miss it and did, guess we would never know. He did seem angry though. Atleast that's what it looked like to me. I can't say he was a threat to me or anyone really. But LE does know, but they would have to catch him while he is there again, that could be too hard for them.
Did this person on the RR fit the description of sketch?
Slacker,
I have seen the sketch man on the flyers from FM and various sites, no, he does not, he was a white male. If I had to guess age, I would say, late 30's to mid 40's no older. He looked thin in build. Not horribly skinny, just thin. I would say he is a taller guy. He leaned over the steering wheel and his head was well over top of it. practically into the dash. From where I was standing, at the corner of the back of my car, I could see in there pretty good. I would not believe he was sketch according to the one everyone posts.
Campbell, I know this has been said by S Jones before, but there is a lot of pot grown to the sides of RR tracks-everywhere, in every state. It make be that this paranoid dude was coming to pick buds or check on it and saw you and was checking you out. I have heard that some folks watch the growth of this stuff and pick it before the original growers can get to it first. The way you describe his appearance and the way he was watching you sounds drug related imo. Either way dangerous for you or anyone to be around and alone when drugs are involved.
Call the cops first, then take a photo and get in your car and lock the doors. That entire place now-the lots, the bridge has a bad vibe ever since MH was taken.
Meant to add to the conversation about people calling the cops on MH for public drunkenness-here's the deal. Sadly most people don't call the cops ratting on others for this thinking they are doing another person a favor. Thinking its cool and leave them alone as its no big deal. I have a feeling the majority of kids that night wouldn't have called as it meant she'd be arrested most likely and they'd be hurting her more than helping. I know this is the general consensus with people I know and hang out with. We'd never turn another in and think that everyone at concerts are loaded and its all good. No one thinks murderers are wandering around esp on a college weekend with concerts, parties, ect. going on.
Thank you Buster. I was not expecting to have a hi railer come up on me like that, that day. It was a beautiful day..really good spirits, and I was alone just tryin to get to my car..I would have worried more about another car approaching me in the parking lot itself than a hi railer. If I would have been gettin in my car rather than walkin to it I would have never even paid attention to him bein there at all. I thank you for the advice.
Unsolved murders often remain so permanently . Last night i was reading a summary of local cases .Being in a medium sized city I actually knew some of the guys to an extent in highly publized cases but they were involved in illegal activities and i was not .Always found them likeable and charming but kept away from them as much as possible and out of any transactions . One case in particular Kimberly McAndrew about 25 years old is similiar to MH . Kimberly was 20 beautiful ,daughter of a high ranking RCMP member . She disappeared after her shift at a summer retail job one day ,never to be heard from since .Retired detectives are still working on it along with serving members .They have theories but there has been no public official conclusive finding of what happened to her . With MH there is much more of the story known but it appears tragically the beast will not be caught and caged until he re-offends and is then napped . There is a lot of blogging and mainstream coverage of the Fairfax and MH crimes but i doubt his family or associates are reached . People following are usually literate ,law abiding preaching to the choir so to speak . Those commiting these crimes are in a totally different world,we don't even know the person of interest and family,s ethnicity language or location .
Hi rail vehicles can only run on the railroad tracks under an engineering posession. They are not allowed on tracks under any other circumstances. The railroad would certainly be able to tell VSP if there was engineering possession the day Campbellhn saw this vehicle. They can tell who it was as well. The wheels are operated on pneumatics or hydraulics and they don’t slam into place. They get on and off the tracks at crossings, not anywhere else. They also cannot turn around anywhere other than a crossing. Hi-rails are hard to operate, and if there is any slight problem with the track, they are stuck and must be repaired or towed right there. This happens a lot. I’m not sure what Campbellhn saw, but the rail wheels would have been engaged with the rail the whole time it was on the track. It would be very unsafe to have the tires engaged; it would damage them. Very strange.
Further, VSP would be the only ones who could investigate this with the railroad. So, SJones, if you feel this is important, you should speak with them. If you have some information on an auction of hi-rail vehicles to private individuals, you should call that in as well, because it is very illegal for anyone to operate a hi-rail vehicle on the railroad tracks without permission of the railroad. It would also be extremely dangerous. I don’t know the laws in Virginia regarding this, but since it is illegal to operate a hi-rail vehicle on railways without an engineering possession, they may have to be specifically licensed. Also a thought, there may not have been trains going east/west but that does not mean they were not running north/south. More passenger trains travel those north/south tracks. I only heard about the tracks under the Copeley Bridge having no activity that night.
Hi-rail vehicles are expensive to own and to operate. They must be inspected yearly and are easily damaged, axels bent, etc. The railroad decides who it allows on their tracks, others must have their own personal track for their “hobby.” I do not know if any tracks in Virginia allow private hi-railers, but it would have to be monitored if allowed. Proof must be provided to the railroad of regular inspections or it will never be allowed on the tracks. Hope this helps.
Thank you Duannah, I do not know enough about them.. but I do know what I saw..this guy rolled up slowly on his bigger wheels..then came to a complete stop..was staring very hard for someone or something near me..then the little wheels slammed down very hard and lifted the bigger wheels up and he took off and was gone..whether its normal or not, or legal or not, orapproved or not..that's what he did. I do hope they have looked into it atleast. I thank you for your knowledge of these things. I do not understand their use or purpose so that is good to knkow.
Thanks for the info duannah. The story seemed very illogical if you consider that there are actually trains running on those tracks.
I did not mean to make it sound as though it was or might have been someone on the tracks as a hobby. In fact, quite the opposite. He very well may work for the railroad. I just assumed he was not working officially at the time based on how he looked and was dressed. I do not disagree his behavor was odd or I would not have made mention of it at all. I understand my information is not welcome here or anywhere outside of law enforcement and so I will refrain from sharing at all. Thank you for what short time I've been made welcome to share.enjoy your day. Regardless the information is in the right hands. Ultimately that is the main goal.
Is it true they tiered the Lannigan Field Parking Lot? I didn’t see any tiers there. I thought it was pretty small. I was wondering how anyone could see a vehicle on the railroad tracks from there, since trees block the view. Was the vehicle going east or west?
Yes -- Any actual suspicius activity should be reported if felt warranted . Seems this person is only guilty of looking but he has been put out here in a demeaing light with murder and rape . A crowd of peeps hanging around the track bridge or tracks for whatever reason would warrant monitoring from a rail safety perspective . Poor guy likely just doing his job perhaps checking for track problems or vandilism and he gets smeared in public. Shades of that well known Poopular blog pointing fingers in public at the innocent . Once irresponsibly and visciously smeared ,how is the injured party supposed to actually restore his reputation ?
Baffled,
No, I was not at lannigan field, we were in a group, some went to lannigan field to look around, and the others of us went on to the RV lot to leave. I was parked in the lowest tier of the RV lot. The hi railer was beside the lower tier of the RV lot, where I was, then when he took off, he went under the bridge past FOAN. I believe that's west. I cannot continue posting here, but saw this and thought I would respond. I won't be responding to any other questions.
Well Frank Speaker, that's real nice of you. Seriously. I did not mention a name, I do not know his name, I do not know you, you do not know me,yet you want to judge me that way? I specifically stated he may not have been a threat to me or anyone else, I described the situation as it was with the idea that maybe it would shed light on some possibilities. Or that it might help. I did not ruin his reputation, nor did I say he did anything wrong, nor did I accuse him personally of any wrong doings. I did tell law enforcement and I left it in their hands. I have nothing to do with BOC or any other public sites. The hi railers were mentioned before I even brought my situation to light. I now know it was a mistake to do so! I thought all possibilities were being looked at..I was wrong evidentally. Have a nice day.
Oh, thank you for your response Campbellhn. I was very confused by what you said because the RV Lot is the Lannigan field parking lot and has been for many years, but I'm now guessing you must mean you were in the lot that is behind The Cage. I'm sorry you feel you can't answer questions. My thanks to also duannah for providing facts about hi-railers. They seem to have some limitations.
I'm just looking at both Google Earth map and also Google map and behind the FOAN, down beside the tracks is what looks to me like a garbage can area or something, walled in down there. Obviously if those are large garbage bins, trucks would be able to get down there to pick up garbage. I'm wondering if someone could have been down there that night.
For what it's worth, I don't like innocent person's name or suggestions of who they are either coming up publicly for the reasons Mr. Speaker said. Yet, in light of this I don't believe Campbellhn was accusing this anon man either. What I took from the post is that this sort of activity occurs period, whether it is legitimate or not. I felt she was simply telling those interested what she had witnessed as a way to expand on what goes on the rails from what she observed.
I appreciate both of your points of views and don't see why Campbellhn thinks she is not welcome. I hope you reconsider dear, even if the larger majority here, including myself, would not like to appear to do what that other blogger does.
Oh, in my last sentence I did not mean to imply you were doing what this other blogger is doing or has done in the past Campbellhn, because I do not think you were at all.
Baffled, its not that I can't answer questions, it's that I don't want to answer questions. I feel that if it were someone else who saw the exact things I saw that day, it would mean more. I did not see that hi railer having any difficulties whatsoever that day, and most any others that I have ever seen, were completely and totally capable of getting onto tracks and off of them rather quickly, despite the above information that duannah provided. I mean no disrespect to duannah, or her information, or her expertise in the area of hi railers. I just know what I saw. The guy driving that hi railer that day, obviously knew very well how to operate the thing, and he sure didn't have an difficulties whatsoever for it being a delicate, difficult piece of equipment to handle or manuever. I never have been clear on the name of the parking lot I was parked in, it was the parking lot across from lannigan field. I just thought it was called the RV lot. Sorry for causing the confusion. I would appreciate if people woud not be so quick to judge. What the guy did was not illegal, and I never suggested it was. It was odd, but not illegal as far as I was aware. If I am not welome here, or my information is not good enough, then fine, Courteney is more than welcome to let me know. But I sure don't deserve being degraded or treated like a bad person for sharing, by some. Its ridiculous, petty and childish. I hardly post anywhere because of being treated like this, and I can find better things to do with my day that putting up with things like that. I had been polite, respectful and decent. And I thank those who have given me just the same in return.
Sis, thank you.
Question: Exactly how much longer does this case have to remain unsolved before those of you who have been mocking my theory will be taking it seriously?
John, your theory is a joke. And if you beleive in your theory you would be asking VSP this question. Not us.
Deleted by moderator.
John, would you be able to direct me to where your theory is posted, I would like to read on it, I don't post here much, just started after a long while so I have not kept up. I am interested in it. Or repost if you could. I have no problem keeping an open mind. I think all theories should be appreciated.
Slacker, what I'm suggesting is tantamount to the VSP killing Morgan. Not funny, if you ask me, and not worth asking them if they did it.
Oh John, I wouldn't mock it, trust me. At this point, anything is up for a possibility. I'm just attempting to figure out so many different ways that this could have happened other than your theory, because I just can't deal with it. I've often said, I eat and sleep this case. I'm very serious when I say that. I can't understand how ANYONE could touch one hair on Morgan's head let alone do what they did to her that night.
Deleted by moderator.
Then consider that Marines love Pantera.
Deleted by moderator.
Unfortunately, that's what makes it so easy to get away with, and so common as well.
Referring to what Campbell just said, and is now vanished.
Very early on in the case I looked at the numbers 2 4 1. I was able to find connections to that through the military. I have concidered the fact that Gil's father was a diplomatic courier. I've concidered the fact that Morgan is now inside one of Gil's fathers cigar boxes, and also that Morgan was wearing a signant right associated apparently with maybe a family crest, which is what I think they are. If I'm wrong someone correct me.
I know that LE feels that the public isn't important, that they don't need us to help them, but what they are doing by witholding information, is causing the public to wonder if there could be other things going on. We have all heard about the booty spots near AF. Don't ask me to link it, because at this point, it doesn't even seem important. But SOMETHING is going on here that isn't what it seems, SOMETHING isn't right about this case.
I read it John, they can delete things, but not before many get to read it.
John? If this could be true about Dr. H, then why is he and his wife so interested in finding the killer and supporting VSP? Why'd they do all the added work they are doing in the community if they are part of her death? Seems to me they'd go on the down low.
Uh oh, why did it get deleted? What did I say wrong?
John, you can obviously believe and think whatever you want, but don't you see the devastation on this family's face? In your mind Gil does things that don't make sense to you however to deny that these people are not being slowly driven out of their minds with grief over the loss of their girl is a mistake I do believe. Gil's blogs are riddled with her agony and questioning of who could have done something like this to their daughter. Personally I do not see the connection.
Cambellhn----No you did not give out his name but you described him well and the public could identify who you are likely speaking of . Or folks can be left the same general fear of all hi-railer vehicle operators in the area . You not only smeared him but by extension side swiped his peers . Your concerns should have been in confidence with LE exclusively .You say he looked like he just got out of bed ,not officially working due to how he looked and dressed and that he looked angry . You say you were all alone and this person's odd behaviour shocked and scared you . If you were sooooooo scared then why did you wait for this very scarey person to return to scare you some more . You say you waited 10 minutes for this real scary guy to return and would have waited longer if it wasn't so hot . Besides smear job, your story totally lacks credability .
John, I respect your views and how you feel, but I cannot/possibly will not, believe Dan and Gil or Alex had anything to do with Morgans death whatsoever. Maybe it's not in me to feel it but it certainly isn't in me to see it. Even knowing the industry. Even knowing the tragic events at Vtech, and knowing them to be over protective parents as opposed to not protective enough, suggests to me they truly would not have let anything happen to Morgan, especially not some huge organized effort. I believe they loved Morgan entirely too much for that. I believe they did cherish her. But I still do appreciate you sharing what you did so that I could know.
Frank, I did no such thing as cause some public panic. I wasn't staying any longer because I didn't want to stick around too long, I did want to get a picture, I said I was shocked, scared and a bit frozen because I had no idea what he wanted or why he was staring toward me that way being I was all alone, why are you exaggerating what I'm saying? In fact far more than I did. I described what it was like, just because you feel my story is not credible, it means nothing. I have smeared no one, I am entitled to share what I saw because not a single soul has said for me not too. I got into my car and locked the doors with the windows slightly down, I turned on the AC even, I felt rather safe once in there, so I thought if he had come back, I could catch a quick picture and leave. I do not plan on ending up in court for any reasons to do with seeing that hi railer and so there is absolutely no risk in sharing it. You treat it like it should be some top secret thing. And as though I should be forbidden to speak of it, you pick and choose what you want to attack me about, but it is useless, I have no reason to believe I am not capable or welcome to share what I saw, whether you want to believe it or dont, or believe it is credible or not, unless you were there that day and saw it differently than I did, then stop judging me, you don't even know me! I just posted to share, like anyone else does here. That hi railer was there, that day, I just said what I saw, I did not implicate him in anything, and I only stated that I do believe that a hi railer would be able to do anything a regular truck could. Making it a possibility only. If it came across as though he was being suspicious, it was because what he did seem very suspicious to me. Whether you like that, whether you don't, I guess there's not alot I can do about that much. It is, what it is.
Campbell --You don't appear to comprehend how self contradictory and destructive your story is . Anyway ,Have a nice day !!
Frank, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree then. You as well. Have a good one.
John, dude, I went over to that Alex Jones site and read a few pieces of his. Lemme say this: this stuff may be true, but if it is, I don't want to know it. I mean reading this stuff over enjoying my life? If I was fed a steady diet of this Alex Jones biz, I'd be insane in no short order man.
In politics, a sacrificial lamb candidate is a candidate chosen to contest an election despite the fact that he or she has little chance of victory. The political party thus appoints the person as a sort of "sacrifice" to the stronger opponent. I do not know what Gill was thinking when she called Morgan a sacrificial lamb, but there could be several different thoughts.
There could have been something at the site where Morgan's body was found which led Gil to say that. For example some sort of alter/funerary/statue thing?? Wasa there perhaps signs that her body had been burned?
Hello to fellow past forum members!
I see a BS story that is making this about them once again!!!!!
Didn't your mother show you enough attention growing up????
What we need here is,
AND NOTHING ELSE BUT -
JUSTICE FOR MORGAN !!!!!!!!!
Meet Morgan's murderer.....
Who:
Is a 30 to 40 year old black male of average height and build.
Dresses well.
Treats himself well (usually overspends on himself).
Cheats as soon as he sees an opportunity to "puff himself up" with someone else. Each of his relationships just an avenue for aquiring admiration. If the current relationship flags or get's demanding.....he then quickly moves on to someone else.
Is certain he will have a major impact on the world so he moves with ease into leadership positions.
Believes he's smarter than the police.
Is certain he will never be apprehended.
Has quite the fragile ego. Responds badly to being challanged or humiliated.
Has (unfortunately) a terrific sense of humor.
Normally experiences that invincible feeling of always being right.
Is quick to blame others whenever something goes wrong.
Harbors grudges and fiercely defends his own view of himself.
Always needs to be the center of attention...to be the one in-charge.
Most likely is popular with an entourage of admirers.
Has an excessive need for admiration. Will sacrifice being liked for being admired (practically demands admiration).
Inspires others on how he has everything under control (whether he does or not).
Acts as if he holds considerable influence over matters (whether he does or not).
Believes even without merit that he's important.
Believes his is entitled to the immediate compliance of his wishes.
Exploits others to advance his own ambitions.
Obsesses over power and success.
Is self centered and insecure. Incapable of learning from helpful comments.
Exhibits little sense of what others feel or need.
Believes others envy him.
Must hear from others how great he is.
Knows how to provoke admiring attention for anything he's done.
Exhibits arrogant behaviors or attitudes.
Likes looking at himself in the mirror.
Is most likely to exploit opportunities to cheat and manipulate.
Is most likely smack dab into a very "ego intensive" career.
Only associates with those he considers "worthy".
Is alway's certain he can rely on his charm to win people over.
With great skill has seduced others into buying into his high self regard....at least initially.
Knows how easy it is to start up a relationship.
Also knows how not-so-easy it is to keep one.
Is resilient and ambitious. Recovers quickly from stress.
Is normally arrogant and boastful.
Is charming, even pleasant and engaging.
Has an underlying sense of superiority and entitlement.
Considers himself special, untouchable.
Feels that no one else matters but him.
Cares about no one but himself.
Needs to remain in complete control. Most likely visted Morgans body several times to reassure himself that he was still in control.
Distains others. Carries around a smug sense of superiorty.
Thoughtlessly exploits others for his own gain,
Felt and continues to feel entitled to each of his victims.
Believes his victims were priviliged to be in the same "orbit" as him.
Looks for people he can easily dominate.
Has an extreme self-centeredness that is blind to flaws.
Directs his rage at others.
Fears becoming a nobody.
Has an extremely annoying, over-estimation of himself.
Again......leaves little, if anything to chance!
**********************************************************************************************************
Obviously this guy is not your average low life. Has never been arrested (yet). Could possibly be from the Washington, DC area.....working there as a highly paid Government Contractor.
Hmmmm/ sounds like every mother's little boy to me.
Mouthing off to her, I meant to say.
Bilfar, instead of 50 sentences you could have just said the guy is a deranged narcissistic sociopath, as half of what you posted were repetious and unnecessary really. I mean you describe the majority of ppl in this country basicallly.
The majority of the people in this country are black males of average height and build between the ages of 30 and 40 years old?
If that were true we wouldn't need a Delta Force.
Everyone has plans, until they get hit.
Okay I overgeneralized but I think most here get the drift Buddy. I think we are a nation full of narcissists, unchecked it can shift into mild sociopathy. Self love, power and money rule the masses for the most part.
After all John, your theories and your guru are out to expose it for the most part from the very little I've read it seems.
No John, I have not read it, but I will do so. I have not heard the "shattered" bones statement come from anyone other than Gil, I have met Gil, she is quite a great lady. She is tempered, poised and a precious gift to the community. I know these are not your views, I know and realize you do not share that same opinion, but I have to base what I do know about her from having met her. I also have met Dan, he is gentle, unselfish and takes his family extremely seriously, and he too has a lifetime dedicated to the community and is a gift. I will still respect how you feel, and will read the article you ask about. I suppose my mind is made up when justice is served for those responsible in Morgans death, no matter who it is. To even imagine either one of them had anything to do with what happened to her, I just am incapable of seeing it at all.
Then again, I've heard of lots of Morgan sightings after she allegedly died.
John - Do you play any online Call Of Duty games? They have one called Black Ops Sacrificial Lamb, and it's one of those achievement levels in the game. Just wondered.
No way! It's getting more and more ridiculous by the minute that I even have to explain this to folks.
Do you play these video games? Who does?
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/game/call-of-duty-black-ops/achieveme...
Can I have my money now, please?! I'll share it with Questioner and 007. Split it three ways.
Lots of people do. I personally don't, no. I just wondered if you knew about this one.
Not until now but I'm certain you'll agree that this may be a piece of extremely pertinent information in this unsolved murder case in light of everything we've discussed, and we could get a lot of money for it?
John - I don't need the money, I'm not interested in the money, I WANT WHOEVER DID THIS OFF THE STREETS!
I'll take the money, then.
You ARE kidding right? You really aren't doing this for the money are you? You do have more concern for your fellow man than that?
Not when they promise a reward. I expect them to honor that. I've risked my reputation and possibly my life in my efforts to find justice for a girl I've never met in my life. Not that she wasn't a very pretty young lady and I shouldn't do it for free, but I could use some dough right about now.
I'm certain that many people could use some money right now, but there has to be more than that to concern ourselves with a total stranger. Each and every human being is important. Morgan's life was cut short by some SOB who had nothing better to do that night, but this of HIS needs and desires. If you really feel the way you do, that makes you no better than him.
I'm just reading up on video games that the Army has been putting out now for years to recruit, train, motivate, and make employees more productive.
http://tinyurl.com/4hxz26l
I'll just add this thought. I have stated before and I say it again. They need to take the reward money away. Give a timeline for information, and information isn't given, then take the money away. Perhaps that would prompt some movement on this case. PRONTO!
It's not a pun. It's forensics 101.
J.Me - you say you find it ridiculous that Morgan's disappearance could be a CIA operation and then you rejoice that "the details" about this have been removed from the forum so as not to cloud the waters. Interesting.
John, hmmm, now that I would not disagree with you about the views of sketch. I do not think he had as much to do with what happened to Morgan as people think he may have. But my views are select and not as popular when it comes to him. However the only way to know for sure is for them to locate him and him to explain. I'm not sure it will happen though. I'm just not.
And apparently, you have much reason to rejoice when you look at all the "deleted by moderator"'s have suddenly taken the place of details, details, details...
I mean, why are all the details disappearing from this forum as fast as they appear?
Is the Hook in on this too?
The media take part in a cover-up? Now that's ridiculous.
What did you think of this http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/190407mindcontrolled.htm, Campbell?
"Several Korean youths who knew Cho Seung Hui from his high school days said he was a fan of violent video games, particularly a game called "Counterstrike," a hugely popular online game in which players join terrorism or counterterrorism groups and try to shoot each other using all types of guns," reports Newsmax citing the Washington Post.
Gee I wonder if Morgan played "Counterstrike" too.
Or was she too busy playing "Black Op: Sacrificial Lamb"?
Dungeons & Dragons Role Playing Game - Murders
http://tinyurl.com/4uq4dg7
I believe one has to remain impersonal to remain objective although I can't say I'm always a perfect practitioner of that principle.
Maybe her secret fellow CIA Tech recruit boyfriend was one of the other shooters? Mixed up with the wrong crowd perhaps?
OMG John, stop it please, you make my skin crawl. Are you just doing this for the attention, or do you honestly feel this way about people?
Just hashing out all the possibilities. If you don't like it don't feed into it.
John, I think that is a very persuasive article. You debate well. It mentions CIA, brainwashing, VTech, and Cho, and video games. Sounds like complete torment to an unsuspecting mind.
Glad you read it, Campbell. Or should I have said Hashishin out all the possibilities?
Also shows a picture of Cho in a Marines uniform and reports numerous calls from Tech students reporting to prisonplanet that the CIA recruitment links on Tech's site were removed shortly after the April 16, 2007 massacre. That's the clencher.
And it also demonstrates that a lot of folks at Tech suspected something was up with the CIA from the get go that day to be noticing these kinds of things. It wouldn't be hard for them to be convinced it was if somebody with real credentials came along shooting their mouth off about it and it wouldn't be tolerated if they did either.
Sorry John, I've been so concerned that you can be such a mean angry man that I lost my perspective.
You are correct..it certainly seems suspicious. I did not see any Harringtons mentioned though. I gather you are feeling maybe the guilt is by association? Because of locality, family and profession? Those are strong arguements John. But the only proof to it is documentation. Do you think law enforcement would have looked into these possibilities already?
I'm sorry, do I know you?
Campbell, I had to literally force my mind to consider the possibility that Morgan could have been a mind controlled assassin, and the Pantera shirt and hardcore demeanor made it only somewhat easier. As I said before I'm not sure if the guilt is by association (i.e. her father told her something he shouldn't have and then she knew too much) or if she was a recruit who was in black ops herself. I do not hink there is a chance in hell that law enforcement would have looked into these possibilities, whether they participated in them or not. But stranger things have happened.
Baby Bull. I understand where you are maybe coming from w. the H's and their very public grief. I went and read Mrs. H's blog posts and man oh man, she's out their with her every feeling. I thougth there was a PR firm hired to monitor this sort of thing. You think the PR firm encouraged the H's too be this open?
Anyway down side of living so out in the public with your grief and every feeling, poss scenario, and all that is that it will and has invited every sort of opinion, comment, theory. The H's must be okay with this b.c. they sort of invite it with the blog. Not sure myself if I'd want to where my heart on my sleeve over the death of my little girl, just TMI fort the most part imo.
Campbell I respect your thoughts about who you think the H's are, but meeting anyone several times in public does not make your thinking a "truth" beyond simply your impressions. Am not speaking of the H's here, but I would venture to say that people who've met Sketch superficially might think he's a helluva guy. Reread Bilfar's post on the profile of Morgan's murderer-charming, smart, funny, generous, etc...every serial killer practically profiled later is shown to be masterful at presenting one side to the public and has another deeper dark shadow underneath. Just saying most of us know very little about another, even some of those we are closest to. This is what John I think is about-no matter how outlandish, gettin us to look deeper and beyond conventional thinking. This does have its place and should have in any criminal case.
John and Q
We do not need on line games. Real life games are happening right near Charlottesville , Virginia.
"The Islamic practice of taqiyya, meaning "deception" or "concealment," has been refined into an art-form at a jihad training compound for African American converts near the small town of Red House in Charlotte County, Virginia. The fifty-acre compound is easy to find since the main road leading to it has been named Sheikh Gilani Lane in honor of the guru and founder of a terrorist organization with close ties to Osama bin Laden. The Board of Supervisors of Charlotte County are either oblivious to the threat of radical Islam on American soil or clandestine advocates of the great jihad.
At the end Sheikh Gilani Lane is a sign - - barely visible through the overgrown brush - - that reads, "The Muslims of the Americas." The sign serves to make the place appear as an innocuous religious settlement, until one realizes that The Muslims of the Americas is, in reality, an outgrowth of Jamaat ul-Fuqra, an alleged sister agency to al-Qaeda.
The only person to be seen in the the compound is an African American crone in a full black burqa sans the face cover known as a hijab. The day is hot and humid and the burqa serves to give the wizened old woman the appearance of a wayside witch from a Grimm's fairy tale. "The men are all gone," the crone says from a park bench. "No one is here."
As soon as the investigators park their car and trek into compound, the old woman removes a mobile phone from a sachet and dials a number. In a matter of minutes, a pick-up truck appears at the entranceway. Two young African Americans dressed in skull caps and jalabiyahs emerge from the vehicle. "What are you doing here?" they ask.
Jamal, an Egyptian journalist, says in Arabic, "I'm here to see the Imam. Where does he live?"
One of the young men, whose Arabic name translates as "Slave of God", indicates that the Imam is not in and he should knock on the door of a ramshackle blue structure where he was told "Ahmed", one of the Elders may be found.
cont.........
Jamal proceeds to the structure and rings the bell, but no one answers. Another member of our investigative team knocks at the doors of the trailers and mobile homes but there is no response. Some of the windows to the homes have been holed up with bricks save for openings that are ideal for assault rifles.
The young African Americans, who have shown up on the scene, are becoming agitated. They begin to make calls on their cell phones.
Then something miraculous happens.
At the Imam's residence, Muslim men begin to emerge in droves from a small storage shed attached to the house. It seems like a scene from a Marx Brothers movie in which dozens of people pour out of a closet. The investigators are suddenly surrounded by forty or fifty members of the complex in Islamic gowns and white skullcaps.
In the blink of an eye, another wondrous thing occurs.
Hundreds of more African Americans in Islamic garb materialize from the dense forests, the high grass of the open meadows, and the rusty trailers that just seconds ago appeared to be deserted.
Members of the compound have been sent to Pakistan and Afghanistan for specialized training in guerilla warfare - - a fact confirmed by Thomas P. Gallagher, a Special Agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
The Red House cell of ul-Fuqra has metastasized so that similar Islamic compounds have popped up in neighboring Prince George and Campbell Counties. The 25 acre facility in Prince George County is situated on Mahareen Road, a name selected by the Muslim newcomers and duly approved by the local ordinance officials. Mahareen is the plural of the Arabic mahar, meaning "clever one." The facility in Campbell County is considerably larger, occupying more than 100 acres. An additional compound reportedly has materialized in Bedford County near the city of Roanoke.
Several Virginia compounds appear to possess obstacle courses, and firing ranges.
So, John, do you think "Sketch" could be hiding in one of these sorts of places? Do you think the CIA would just pretend they did not know about it?
Now John, if you were to go find sketch and bring him befor de police you would be risking your life and deserve the small dollars offered in the reward money. (like I said befor, I have never heard of anyone getting any reward money for solving a crime. )
While compiling that long list of attributes I realized how I currently work with someone who shares more than a few of them. He even comes with the unsettling, creepy gaze I mentioned earlier. That a personality containing all or most of them would be the exception and not the rule. I for one now feel that I have a pretty good sense of who were dealing with here. If he's reading this right now let me say this.....you my friend are very close to becoming a nobody!
Q.................I do not think John is any kind of mean angry man. It must be very difficult for him to say these things.
i googled john's full name. Looks like he has a bit of ahistory of threatening people so Im not sure he isn't pretty angry. police involvemnet but not sure why.
John, some dude called Walker over at the Blogger who speculates, is big into this Tibetan connection, with the art and stuff, just skimmed it. But...it made me think of some of your 'out there' theories taht the Tibetans were in discussion with Hitler and that group back in the day. I think the Germans wanted to know the mind control practices the tibetans had been doing for centuries to gain I guess, a metaphysical one upmanship over others. The CIA and other agencies have studied the Tibetan meditation or mind stuff practices as well. They believe in things like lucid dreaming and other stuff from the little I read, so maybe the CIA were looking into this. No telling, but it does give some of your comments somewhat of a legit tie in. Tho I just can't go to the point that Morgan was some mind controlled type and def not assasin.
So do you know for a fact Dr. H was working at or with VT at the time of Cho's attack? Do you have any idea of Dr. H's work history or did he have a military history? Cause why and when would he have taken up with the CIA?
Bilfar
I am not sure you are very close in your assessment of "sketch" What is sketch killed Morgan for retalliation (sacrificial lamb)? Then it would all depend on whose side you were on?
In wars each side believes they are working for "God" They pray to their own God, and expect help in defeating the enemy. (not saying this is the case here at all, but if it were the case, then the criminal would not fit your ideas, but would just be a "soldier" on the other side.
Jen
There are many John Guilianos.....one is a Paediatrician........
Why are comments for this article still open? The vast majority of the comments have nothing to do with Ms. Stuart's excellent article, rather they have digressed into something I can not find words to describe. I think some people have been watching way too much sci fi channel. I urge the ones who have been posting comments to step back away from their keyboards, re-read the article, and then read their comments. And then think - if we are here posting, who is running the cuckoo's nest?
Joe, that'd be Blink running it.
I am so glad, the Harrington's are able to continue to rise above the negitive comments that heartless people seem to post. What I don't understand is why people feel the need to call them names? Have they not suffered enough? How can ppl say they are nutcases? There daughter was murdered, a young woman who was once their innocent and perfect baby is gone because of a murderer. They are far from a nutcase family. In fact, they are heros for continuing to go on when there daughter has been taken from them. One might ask who is the nut case here? The person making comments such as that or those striving for justice. I wonder if you have been investigated because why else would you think them as nutcases?
Good morning, S. Jones (aka caSey Jones -- heh) ---I like your theory about train track involvement, but didn't the rumor have the dog hitting on Morgan's scent behind Buffalo Wild Wings as opposed to Wild Wings Cafe? Buffalo Wild Wings -- the same chain that figures in the Casey Anthony case -- is about an 11 min walk from Copeley Rd bridge; the other one, Wild Wings Cafe (where as far as we know a dog did NOT hit), is farther away, and THAT's the one at the Amtrak station. Google both -- you'll see. Of course, as you note it's never been acknowledged by the police or Courteney, but rumors persist among the locals who claim to have seen police activity at BWW. So if it's indeed BWW --does that change your thinking at all?
@ S. Jones, thanks for your quick response. Some of the earliest rumors had her boot or boots being found behind one of those establishments. If your train theory comes into play, it's easier to figure how the Wild Wings Cafe at the Amtrak station would figure in. But if it turns out to be Buffalo Wild Wings, what would the thinking be? That Sketch zipped by for a plate of wings after disposing of Morgan? That he swung through the back alley to toss the boots and shirt, with perhaps the shirt being rescued from the trash by a passing college kid who later abandoned it or lost it him/herself? I do recall boots being part of the original rumor -- but it's still just a rumor.
On a side note -- sounds like you've been through a similar personal tragedy? My condolences if so.
I've followed this case from the beginning and read all the comments, but I post sparingly. So, some may be offended at my sudden appearance. Agreed, Joe, some of the recent comments have strayed from the topic and seem to diminish the message of Ms. Stuart's excellent article. Most posters seem honestly concerned, but the focus is and should continue to be discussing Morgan's case. End of story. Ms. Stuart offered an extensive amount of information that could spawn productive discussions. Accussations, personal attacks and conversations between posters seem contrary to the end result of finding and successfully prosecuting anyone involved with Morgan's homicide. Hopefully, the comments will circle around and beginning looking at critical points outlined by the article. JMHO.
SJones, I take the reports of finding the boots or even one of them, with caution also. Rumors are just that and tend to multiple. It's hard to determine which of the "facts" we know are really facts. In my mind, unless it has been specifically stated by LE to be fact, it isn't in play. Not that all LE has said should be taken as absolute gospel since they do withhold and distort info for investigative purposes, but items they state as facts can at least at the time, be taken as solid info. If the boots are Morgan's, what do you feel would be the significance of finding clothing in a variety of locations around town??? Are they calculated placements by the perps to distract or taunt LE, accidental or unrelated findings or clues left by someone unwilling to step forward? Anyone?
Actually, the boot and I think it was a bra was said to have been found behind the Bellair Market, west of Charlottesville, and it was mentioned in TDBones mappings. I had questioned him on it and really never got an answer as to where that origionated from.
SJones - I said west of town, going toward Crozet, not east where the Pantops sighting was. I'm still not certain that the Bellair Market isn't still in the running, we just haven't heard about it yet.
He was very careful when he did those mappings, he would pass them by me and who knows who else before he posted them. That was the only point that I questioned him on, and really got no explaination of that entry.
Everyone's quite right -- rumors are rumors until they're verified. I've never been one to dispute the sightings on the bridge; the "loner weirdo" theory has rung true for me almost from the beginning. Stranger on stranger crimes are notoriously hard to solve. He's done us all a favor by leaving DNA somewhere, so at least there's a solid clue to work from. But who is he? Where is he?
I go 'round and 'round as to whether he really does have familiarity with AF. Could have scoped it out in advance, but also could have lucked onto it. It's an easy shot from Copeley Rd bridge to there -- just turn off on 29 and take the first right, then wend your way back to somewhere private -- Blandemar Farm pond? -- to assault her. For all we know, he left her for dead and she somehow made it to that lonely field on her own power -- especially if she came from a point where she neither had to cross the creek nor the fence near where her remains where found. Wildlife could have carried her even further. All this to say that there may be an unanticipated simple explanation for how she ended up at that spot beneath the Albermarle sky.
Good morning everyone, happy Sunday. Just a question that has probably been put out there before but does anyone know if the bloodhounds were used at AF? Radar has been adamant about location and I think is committed to the pov that Morgan was brought in from the road directly into AF, and not Blandemar Farms entry. Would it have been the bloodhounds that gave him that conviction?
On another note, while I have had no where the sort of terror and cruelty that most victims of crime have had, I can say I have been in a life or death situation before and in those those last moments I left my body and developed amnesia. I say this as I hope too Morgan had a similar experience and was at some form of peace or had left her body. I pray this to be true for all victims of all crimes.
Like you, S. Jones, and others, I prefer the theories where she was having fun. Like the ones that posit she went for a ride on an ATV and there was a terrible, bone breaking, fatal accident where her compatriots panicked and left her. I personally wish she were licked to death by kittens, but her bones seem to tell a different story. I console myself with the idea that her soul knew what was about to befall her, and ensured that she was 'out of it' so she wasn't quite herself and maybe wasn't quite fully there when the worst happened.
In the end, it's just hard to reconcile such a senseless ending. We want a story that adds up, we want to make sense of it all -- we're sense making beings -- but I worry that we'll never get that kind of satisfaction, even if there's an arrest and conviction. It's maddening, even for an outsider like myself who -- unlike you -- has not had my passport stamped from a visit to the underworld. You, S. Jones, and the Harringtons, and as you note, many others drawn to this tragedy have each made a difficult journey to that dark place; I've mercifully been spared that thus far (touch wood), so I can only imagine the toll it has taken on you.
And, Sister, thank you for providing a first hand view of the amnesia that can come while experiencing terror -- I find that comforting, and hope the Harringtons do, too.
Thanks for that S Jones and Suz.
Here's a thought: let's say the perp left his scent on Morgan and the dogs could have established this at AF. If the perp left his scent on the shirt at the dumpster, maybe the dogs could have confirmed this somehow? Or if the dogs smelled his scent at AF, could the dogs be taken back to JPJ Arena to see if his scent could be located somewhere there? I mentioned this as a way of thinking that if this could be possible, then his scent in the parking lot could have possibly be linked to a vehicle, location specific to certain types of ppl. I fear I am not clear at all with this so I apologize in advance.
I do recognize there are time limits to all of this and I'm grasping at straws. Just curious about Radar's adamant stance on AF being the initial draw and that they were thinking Morgan died that very night. Why? What in the world would give them that thought unless there was some evidence to this?
October, 19, 2009
Amy Melvin traveled to Charlottesville to see the Metallica concert with Harrington, along with two others. Melvin said the group was separated from Harrington before the concert and did not see her during the concert.
She said Harrington did not take the automobile they had brought to Charlottesville.
Melvin and the two other group members reported Harrington missing.
http://tinyurl.com/25mupm5
Oct 23, 2009
Dave Gardner is a UVa Graduate and attended the concert Saturday night. He recalls his interaction with Morgan.
Dave Gardner is a UVa Graduate and attended the concert Saturday night. He recalls his interaction with Morgan to a TV station in Roanoke.
"She did seem excited for Metallica because she asked us 'who the opening act was' and we told her. She said, 'well who cares anyway, we're all here to see Metallica right?
http://tinyurl.com/23famut
-------------------------------------------
Were the friends lying about this?
S. Jones, you're correct that my only source is Gil. But not from her poignant blogs, but from an interview where I think she was describing her firsthand experience in seeing the bones. That is to say, I tend not to over-read her poetic expressions like "sacrificial lamb" or allusions to Morgan having been assassinated -- I think that's just a mother's sorrow rather than a hint. She tries so many ways to express the horror and loss she feels --- words don't do it justice. I do wish we had COD, but I understand fully why the police would choose to keep it secret, or even that they may not actually know. The state of the bones -- they do know that, and almost undoubtedly whether cows carelessly trampled her remains after she was long gone, or if her bones where broken at or before her death. So I'm just working off of that 'knowledge' and not anything more. I do wish we knew the state of the bone breaks because that would absolutely influence my thinking as to whether or not she could have arrived at that final spot on her own power.
Sis, I think the way bloodhounds work is that you have to provide them with a target scent -- easily done by collecting Morgan's laundry or sheets to be the primary source, though the Harringtons lamented that they wish they had known they shouldn't have been sleeping in her bed to feel close to her, thus muddling the scent. The police wouldn't know whether the shirt even held sketch's scent -- we can't smell it, probably, so it wouldn't give the dogs a clear target scent. Does that make sense? Not sure I'm expressing it clearly.
Investigators need the public’s help in finding a young woman the night of the Metallica concert that may have loaned her cell phone to Morgan.
http://www.michellesigona.com/2010/11/cold-case-feature-morgan-harringto...
--------------------------------------------
How do they know this was a woman that lent Morgan the cell phone?
Ok Suz I see what you're saying. I agree. However, what I'm trying to articulate and not doing it well is this: They get Morgan's body at AF and it has also Sketch's scent on it or something on her. Then they would use this as his target scent and use it to make connections with something identifiable in the parking lots or elsewhere. I know this is highly doubtful and there's a time limit as well. Just trying to get a hint of where Radar is coming from with some of his comments that he seems certain about. I mean for a case where we don't know much at all, he seems so sure of certain 'facts' and I am trying to get to this. Just not doing it well, but thanks ya'll for hanging in with me nonetheless.
Sister, I think -- but it's just a guess -- that the police think Morgan perished that very night or in the wee hours because her remains had been there a long, long time, and because probability says that it was a quick assault with a fast drive only 10 miles away, and because they reached out to cyclists presumably to see if they saw any unusual vehicles on the road early Sunday morning, and no one did --- so they see the window as being between from just after she disappeared from Copeley Rd. bridge, to the time the first cyclists pedaled down Red Hill Rd.
Ponder this:
We have been asking ourselves for quite awhile now, about the T-shirt, why it was left where it was even before we knew that Morgan would be found deceased. Whoever put it there KNEW that someone inside the building where the band member from Belle Morte lived. We have really only thought about him and the band. What about the other people who live in that apartment building? What about the mail man? Who else comes by our homes regularly when we are at work or going to classes. the mailman.
Even our utility people don't come around that often. What about LE? They wouldn't be coming to our homes, however they would be riding around, expecially when there are Frat Houses close by. That area would also be patrolled by them because right next door, is a womens clinic.
So, right now we have these persons at one location where the T-shirt was found:
So, basically we can break that down to those people who would feel the most familiar being there:
LE, People who work at the Clinic, Mailman, Paper Person, and anyone living at the apartment complex.
Those are the people who need to be investigated and anyone these persons were close to, familiar with on a daily bases. Someone associated with 15th & Grady, either knows "Sketch", or knew who was seen with Morgan on Oct 17th. Of the people above, who would the shirt being left there be associated with?
They would have had to be at the JPJ Arena, at 9:00pm on Oct 17th, either on business, or attending the concert. There are many possibilities that I'm not even considering, just wanted to get this much down.
SJones - Good question on the time. AND, that burner phone that was found on the tracks by the searchers comes to mind as a possibility. But if that's the case, why throw it away? And when would it have been thrown away? Interesting possibilites here.
Questioner1, I am assuming based on your own comments that you are the "questioner" from the FindMorgan forum and the person who has opened up a forum of your own once FindMorgan was shut down.
I find it discouraging that you are engaging these posters on here who have caused the Harrington family such grief in the past. While I understand that I will probably get a response that states you will do anything to unveil the truth, this is unacceptable since it is quite obvious that these attention seekers who continue to insult and ridicule do not hold the key to unveiling the truth. The have continued to prove harmful to the Harrington family. You yourself have stated this in the past.
Furthermore, I am "virtual" friends with a regular on your forum who finds it appaling that you are speaking to the very people you have accused of hacking and causing dismay on your forum. I would check in on your forum and make sure your very loyal posters who stop in day in and day out, and provide useful research are ok with your swaping consipracy theories (that implicate the Harringtons are somehow involved) with these posters.
I apologize in advance if you are not the Questioner who runs their own forum dedicated to seeking justice for Morgan. However, if you are, I find myself inclined to tell you that while I may have once thought you were the only person who would keep this online sluething process honest I regret to have changed my mind after reading these comments.
In otherwords, thanks for feeding the trolls.
Out of curiousity, has anyone ever seen or known what the reported sketch composite was wearing on the 2005 attack? I read everything from today, and from reading everything, sounds like "sketch" is a homeless, guy who may jump trains (sorry don't know the actual term for this)...from locality to locality, how close is the train station/tracks to where the 2005 victim was assaulted? Not implicating anything really but it clears some things up. And would mean he did NOT act alone. Would also be interested in the precise distance the train station is from the 2005 attack victim/incident, and precise distance from the train station to copeley bridge..just a theory to try and if it works, then it wouldn't be so trivial to find him possibly. I think I will go work on this a little. Gonna bug me until I know.
Nick Saban - I am the Questioner from FM. I do have a forum that I have had since FM closed down. I refuse to jusitfy my postings here. I I have come to realize that posting behind the scenes isn't working. I do not know who hacked my forum, although I have my suspicions. I have myself questioned many of the thoughts posted here by various people and those who have been researching with me from the beginning know this as fact. I am still posting the same things that I have from the beginning of this case, and if you were a member of FM you would know that. If those who I have come to know and love as family during my stint at FM and my own forum now feel that I'm being a villian, they are sorely wrong. I am merely putting out some of the same things that we have all been questioning, I'm not in control of who is answering me on this site. I am still here, I am still searching for the truth. I will NOT be chased off, nor will I bow down to those people who think that I'm wrong posting here. Heaven help me. Over and out.
JennSilv - libel on your part, not sure why. Probably something to do with libel on the Hook's part. Why should I even bother trying to help solve this case when people just call me mean and angry and libel me? Screw this stupid forum and the nasty haters who would much sooner do google searches about me and my history than about the information and analysis I bring to the table. I'm probably doing more harm than good to the cause of solving this anyway - if people who have never met me already have negative opinions formed of me than why taint extremely valuable pertinent information with my Hook-libel-created bad reputation?
Gil Harrington's thoughts from January 23rdOn January - 25 - 2010
A bad event happened in Charlottesville – be known as the place where this act was NOT tolerated, not dismissed, be relentless, be clever, be resourceful, and find Morgan. Protect people rather than reputations, they are infinitely more precious.
SJones, thank you, I will see if I can find the article, and then math work, I do love numbers, lol.
Q- you are a very valued person and your works speaks for itself and you need not answer to anyone. If I figure out what it is I'm trying too with sketch I will be back here to explain better.
John- I do wish you would stay. Whether I agree with your views or not, I still feel you are as entitled to yours as I am mine or anyone else is theirs.
AIC interesting stuff about the Alciada bases in Charlotte county and Roanoake. Possibly a connection to Buster's question what the White family's history in the middle east and the Iraqi appearance of sketch have to do with one another? Does Gil speak Arabic as well? She is involved in international affairs. All I know is Alciada was created by a peanut farmer from Georgia and a nutcase international affairs expert from Poland with an impossible to pronounce first and last name and a funny accent. Junior, I've never posited any theories about a Tibetan/Nazi connection. I do know the CIA gave safe haven to lots of Nazi scientists and the Nazi psychiatrists they saved from the noose went on to found Cold Springs Harbor where sketch's DNA is if he was born in this country and under the age of 38, and exists in the first place. Heard that Dan Harrington was the associate dean of psychiatry from the dude in Alabama who thinks Morgan was subliminally distracted. Not from the Hook, of course.
Forgot the mention the 3500-5000 Iraqi Republican Guard troops under mind control and blackmail living in the United States since the early 90's on the CIA dole just waiting to attack and be framed for any sort of terroristic or violent act the government needs to carry out in order to induce fear in the public of a certain group like militias, patriot movements, religious cults they created, etc.
I'm sure some of them aren't as young as they used to be but they've got a fresh supply coming in from Iraqi freedom and Afghan genocide.
"John, dude, I went over to that Alex Jones site and read a few pieces of his. Lemme say this: this stuff may be true, but if it is, I don't want to know it. I mean reading this stuff over enjoying my life? If I was fed a steady diet of this Alex Jones biz, I'd be insane in no short order man."
No, you'd be sane in no short order. Tune in daily and get a Berkey water filter with the PF2's, and use it dude! I enjoy exposing government corruption and wondering when the next time I'm gonna get locked up and tortured for it is! It keeps things exciting.
You'll be enjoying your life a whole lot more in a year if you take his advice to buy storable food, water filters, solar, guns and ammo, and gold and silver if you can afford it, get out of paper, avoid vaccines, fluoride, bpa's, aspartame, cfl's, cell phones at all costs, etc. Some of the most valuable tools and keys to happinesss are staying healthy and strong and talking to people and waking others up to what's going in order to prevent what's going to happen if we don't do these things.
Q, you probably would know, but the google earth images of the directions from the train station to the assault in fairfax, is practically identical to the train station to copeley bridge. In halfway between the train station and copeley bridge is also a cavalier inn, along with a bus stop I think it is, called E. While the fairfax assault is a greater distance from the train station, the images of the two paths, are eerily identical. It is 5.3 miles from the the fairfax station to the fairhaven court, where the "sketch" fleed from. And 1.7 miles from Charlottesville Amtrak to Copeley Bridge.This guy was not a homeless guy, not at all, for him (should he have done anything to Morgan) to have used the same geographical pattern almost identically, suggest that not only was it premeditated, but he is using possibly both train and bus, but I would think in the method of this, he arrives by one, leaves by the other but for this to work he would also likely require use of a rental car. I think I just understood why and how two theories come into one. And it works. Rental cars and hotels...yep. Gotta go talk to someone now. That leaves certain professions he could be in, bus driving, rr/train, hotel, rental car, even if none of this is accurate besides the identical pattern, one thing is for sure, it always starts from either the Amtrak or Bus station. As far as the combination between the 2005 fairfax assault and Copeley Bridge.Likely none of this helps, but if nothing else, it's thought provoking.
Campbellhn,
Your post above is very interesting. Alot to consider. Could this also fit with freight trains that are used to ride from place to place? Coal car trains? Not just amtrak?
Danielle I call her and her husband nutcases because she said her daughters bones were lovely she had her daughter cremated as if to destroy crucial evidence she flashes handsigns in front of the camera I've heard rumors that she throws antique christmas ornaments that don't belong to her in the trash too I just don't get a good feeling from what little I've heard and seen as for Dan apparently he forcibly drugs and shocks people and supervises the forcible shocking and drugging of patients by residents for a living at a University known for it's CIA MKULTRA connections and underground bases, and who says there's no way a fall from a plane or a helicopter could have shattered his duaghters bones. Just considering that since a nutcase must have done this, it might be connected to them somehow.
Cambellhn, here's a description of what the the Oxford Row (Fairfax) rapist was wearing: snip: "In the weeks that followed, police distributed a "wanted" poster that included a facial sketch of the suspect, based on the victim's description of a bearded black male between 25 and 35, about 6 feet tall and wearing a black pullover sweater with a zipper and light-colored pants." (Roanoke News)
S Jones,
Have done extensive research on this case privately since the the onset of this tragedy, and have compiled much information and facts. Had to surface due to your most recent posts. You propose an interesting theory, one of which we have much information, but have never publicly posted and we never will . Cannot post here for known reasons.
Trains and planes and automobiles (although not all vehicles are cars). You pick. We have it.
Think of a word that rhymes with thud, and go from there.
Tis the season, a new moon, October, the month of harvest and a way of transporting your harvest, not through the normal methods.
He is invisable on the tracks. Knows the route. Has used this route whether a high railer or not. He can navigate it without detection, he knows this, and can get AF behind the scenes. He has been to Af before, plenty of times in that lone intimate spot.
Lets not forget about the dead, our forefathers, perhaps a relative. A visit on memorial day to acknowledge our ancestors on a plantation. A connection to location, location,location.
I hear you S Jones loud and clear.
I will go there with you, we have the research that you may be interested in. If you are interested, how do we get this to you?
Sorry of your loss S Jones. My condolences. 25 years is a lng time. Peace to you.
.
To Suz and S Jones on your 3 o'clock posts about Gil and the time of death possibilities. I hear ya, but one, to S Jones, I personally don't think the police just told Gil that Morgan died that night to spare her. For one thing Gil strikes me as a woman who is in search of the truth and if this meant she's have to go to hell and back to do so, she would. She is not the type of woman who's in search of easy answers or to be pacified. If anything I sense she wants to share in Morgan's agony, she wants to know what her baby girl experienced and not a fluff story that would only serve to make herself feel better. Of course this is jmo and could well be wrong since I don't know the woman. As a matter of fact it is Gil who is out in the public arena posting quite disturbing and grisly scenarios that the police aren't speculating about. Why would she do this if she really believed Morgan died that night? To indulge herself? I think not.
As to Radar being so certain about Morgan dying that night Suz....well if he just is basing this off of what would seem to make sense-the 10 minute drive, the cyclists ect. then again in my limited opinion, he'd be making a terrible error. I mean yes Morgan was there a long long time and would her body showing up one week later really matter in relation to this? No. There could be a scenario where she was first abducted and held for a time in the N. Garden, then was killed or tried to escape. There are RSO's homes very very nearby AF. If they make an assumption about this then imo again I think they would be erasing a population or 'type' of rapist/killer that are as likely as "Sketch" is.
I know the so called typical crime of this sort is to snatch, perpetrate and kill and do it fast. Yet, we have the T shirt showing up later, we have a man "Sketch" who of course is capable of this crime yet do most of us really believe this person is familiar enough with AF to be so comfortable to be there at all hours of the night much less with a body and vehicle that would have needed to be left there for awhile, to be seen ect. and noticed? Most of us I would venture to say would think another type of person would be well acquainted with AF, and from childhood. If Sketch was a lawn, service, electric type and knew AF via his job, still I'm not sure he'd be willing to be seen in an area that he only serviced. IDK, I am lost really, however, things don't add up with what we are being told about a place and time frame, Sketch, the lack of a wider range of Morgan's friends just coming out and saying ANYTHING at all about Morgan-missing her, good memories, what she was like, about her, nada, just silence, nothing, This disturbs me because young girls in particular talk about everything all the time. Sorry for the length.
So who's been workin' on the railroad all the live long day and riding ATV's and tending cannabis on the weekends? Sound like anyone you know out there? If you mix your pot with tobacco is it halfway legal to smoke it?
DCDame,
Yes, and it does not matter whether he were homeless or not, but I've got alot of doubt that he is, and the manipulation with the public transit system, I certainly believe there were two forces at work here.
If I were a CIA agent who wanted to get rid of someone but didn't want it to look like she just vanished into thin air (because that might allow for some folks to consider that it might have been the CIA who made her disappear) I would first do some research to find a remote place where a lot of people have come and gone (like a farm where frat parties were held), then I'd go down to the Fairfax crime lab and get a negroe man's DNA, plant it on the body, then I'd get in my trusty helicopter and drop the body in the field and fly back to Dulles.
Suz, thank you, yes I did get to see that, but certainly appreciate you finding that and posting it, hence why I really do not believe him to be homeless, That description didn't say anything in the least of him being unclean, or shaggy in appearance/hair, His sketch photo also has him appearing groomed well, the description of his clothes did not seem ragged at all, or unclean as though being worn several days without cleaning. Just nothing about his description has me thinking homelessness. It seems like he knew very well what he was doing, it was planned, well organized and carried out, yet unsuccessful. I do not believe he took her to AF. Only time and evidence will tell, I just meant on a personal feeling.
Deleted by moderator.
I imagine Morgan's friends know what happened to her and are afraid that if they talk the same thing will happen to them.
Camp
Sketch could not possibly look like the sketch (at least not in every way) The sketch is not correct. No one could look like that, unless some kind of alien. For example the eybrows are drawn practically in the crease of the eyelid, and the hairline is too low for a normal person capable of carrying out this crime.
I am getting into things I better not discuss here, I read code speak entirely too well! I do hope whatever I provided did manage to help though. Blue light specials aren't always bargains! Goodnight to all!
John,
I think you could be right. They must know more than they have told the public. Hopefully they have told the police at least some clues.
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John
Do you not think your trusty hellicopter would seem a tad outta place at Dulles? Might do better at Harvey point.
What are you some sort of Tarheel?
John
It is a shame to throw out antique Christmas ornaments. Some people do not put the same value on things as others do. However, sometimes people are blamed for things which they did not actually do. The person you least suspect is occassionally the guilty party.
Gosh, John Really?????????? I'm sorry I am going to rant. Anyone who doesn't want to hear it, just skip this. EXCEPT JOHN.
This antique ornament thing is ridiculous. Who cares if she threw them out or not? To indict Gil-a grieving woman on a few statements and the idea she tossed some old, probably decaying ornaments away is stupid. Sorry but it is insensitive and just stupid.
And another thing: Why use the word "negroe" in your description? Are you just here trying to provoke? No one has used this word for fifty years and it is racist imo for you to throw this out. You have repeatedly said Sketch looks like a "alien" and while the drawing is not accurate, this black man does not look like a subnormal creature from another planet. Suddenly you show up here and Dr. H and Gil are 'nutcases' and he is a maniacal doctor who tortures his patients and you don't even know if he worked at VT or not. Because Dr. H doesn't agree with your airplane theory is a reason to diminish the man? Hasn't he suffered enough?
You say Gil's a nutcase based on a few sentences and cremating her daughter-you know as well as I do the police okayed this first. What if God forbid you had a loss via a murder like this and the public came out and ANONYMOUSLY poked at you for a few words here and there and on some action you may or may not have done. GROW UP and be a man, if you are one at all. You are the only one here who is offering paranoid, over the top, absurd and paranoid fantansies and it is Gil who sounds strange? Take the log out of your own eye for a change. Seriously you could do for some geniune soul searching with your attitude here and casting blame and aspersions on the victim's parents and ridiculous theories. We get it John, all who have been interested have checked out Alex Whatever and know this is your take on it all.
You're not original, you're not helpful, you are cruel and insensitive and blaming the victim's family is uncalled for in the way you are doing it. I don't know why you even stay here except for a few liberal minded folks who are tolerating you for God knows why.
Well....you have to take care of the worms.
Sister
I am interested in what everyone has to say, including John. Everyone should be allowed to speak as they please. Feel free to change the chanel if you do not like it.
S Jones
I have followed Morgan's case since the beginning but have not posted as much as others. I am more of a researcher. I have always been interested in what you have to say S Jones. The railroad tracks and their vehicles could be a very real part of this mystery. Could it be one or more perps that appeared like homeless people to blend in as they moved their "harvest" up and down the railroad tracks? There have been many crimes committed in the past via the railroad tracks. Keep your thoughts coming S Jones I am a fan.
Good to know you are here Ruby.
John
Were Dan Harrington's Reeboks second hand when he bought them, or when he gave em to thee?
You have been friends a long time now HUH? (I know you already told me you were not friends at the moment)
S Jones Ruby and Memphis Girl are posing and trolling here for you to respond. Be as careful as a bulldog when you read those posts and read them carefully. I think you will know who is who if you do and when you do. Do you catch my drift?
interesting discussion of hi-railers here
http://tinyurl.com/4gtm9lf
I suspect that Morgan’s psychopathic predator/killer drove to the concert hall that evening hoping to find him an easy “target”. That it wasn’t long before he spots Morgan so "wasted" she can barely walk. He slowly follows in his car and parks after seeing her drop some personal items on the ground. He quickly recovers these items then sits and observes her interacting with the student athletes. He continues on and observes Morgan exiting the portable latrine and sees that she is no longer carrying her purse.
As Morgan heads up to Copeley Road he recovers the purse and waits until she’s well on her way over the bridge. Once he’s sure no vehicles are headed in their direction he drives out of the parking lot and heads over the bridge to where Morgan was last seen “thumbing” for a ride.
That it was most likely his handing Morgan back her purse ("sly lure") that caused her to drop her guard.
That once in the car he suggests they return to the RV lot to try and find the other dropped items. It’s there he assaults Morgan and hopefully get's seriously injured in the process.
I’m thinking how someone must have seen this black guy sitting alone in his car just outside the main doors of the arena, then getting in and out of his car several times while driving thru the two overflow parking areas.
Again...where was Security? Why wern't they out there patrolling each of these parking areas?
That a notice should go out immediately to all rental car companies within a hundred mile radius of Charlottesville asking if they have had any customers come back requesting a specific vehicle AND at the same time ask them to check under the front seat of every vehicle for a cell phone battery that may have become wedged under there somehow.
OR she dropped her purse in the lot, headed to the bridge, stuck out her thumb, and got picked up by him. No need for stalking her through the parking lot or collecting her belongings to create a sly lure -- she was already open to taking a ride from a stranger. And it seems pretty likely from Courteney's article above -- as well as from earlier statements by he dad -- that the battery fell out one of the times she dropped the phone.
Before leaving the lot for the last time he places the items back on the ground where he found them, not realizing that the phone's battery had fallen out while removing it from under his seat (where it still remains today). Just a made up (but possibly credible) scenario of mine....I would like to see more of these than some of the other stuff that's been written lately.
SJones,
I am so sorry for your membership in the club. I really am. In the short time I have read here, Your posts have really touched me. You seem to care and to really have some experience investigating crimes. I appreciate your candor and hope the dialogue here will remain civil and kind.
Memphis Girl, I read your post and think you could be onto something. I could really see that scenario playing out. I love Memphis! I have so many friends there and such fond memories from that magical city. I am craving some Junior's Bar-b-q right now!!!!
I hope we can talk about the train tracks and what they may mean to this case.
Bilfar and Suz, Both good possibilites.
If I were the police I would REALLY want to interview the person that replied under the name Really!!!!
AICBond,
Thank you, will keep that in mind. I don't think the composite will be as much a factor in locating him as the pattern will be.
Buster February 28th, 2011 | 1:21am
S Jones Ruby and Memphis Girl are posing and trolling here for you to respond. Be as careful as a bulldog when you read those posts and read them carefully. I think you will know who is who if you do and when you do. Do you catch my drift?
Buster
Just for the record I am not a troll. I have spent hours and hours researching this case since the beginning. I have been very touched by Morgan and the Harrington's. Poster's as yourself have nothing to offer except name calling. Courteney, these are the type of comments that compromise this board and the case.
Who is the troll again, Buster? I have read your other comments and I wonder.
Herbert Ruff, Would you please explain why you wrote that comment? What was of particular interest? Thank you, in advance.
Sister
All words are good. You take exception to John using the word Negro to depict a race of people. Races are called Caucasian, Mongoloid, Negroid etc.
I do not agree with the word police who have decided for the rest of us what words are good and bad and ugly this year. Who gave "them" the right to say some words are bad?
What could possibly be bad is the hateful thoughts in ones heart while using ANY word (correct this year or not) to describe another person.
For example my grandmother only knew one family of black people. She called them "darkies" in a very loving way, since she really loved the way they sang on their porch at night.
Camp
Yes, the sketch artist must have been an amateur. The eyes could not look like that either. The only thing the sketch is good for is telling us the race of "sketch" is not Caucasian.
Pattern is good. I remember you are very good at figuring out patterns.
Bilfar
You state that you would like to see more people write as you do. I disagree with you.
All people should be able to say what they wish to say, in whatever way they want to say it.
You have a lot better chance of hearing something interesting that way then to just allow the feel good posts.
AICBond : "John Do you not think your trusty hellicopter would seem a tad outta place at Dulles? Might do better at Harvey point"
You ever been to Dulles? Hundreds of helicopters are based there, flying in and out at all times of the day.
AICBond, thank you, it likely annoys some, but I cannot explain how or why I can do this. I suppose I have a cryptic mind. Trust me at times I do wish it wasn't so. I guess its really only important if it helps somehow though.
Great article Courteney!
Bilfar -
I agree with you on the point that the man in the Sketch was watching Morgan BEFORE she arrived on the bridge. The chance that a killer/rapist would stumble upon a vulnerable girl in such a small window of opportunity simply driving by in a car is extremely unlikely. He was waiting for his opportunity in a larger, more extensive window of time. I guess this just simply means that he was out there, someone more than certainly spotted him.
The fact that no one saw Morgan enter a vehicle bothers me a bit. It either states that she did so in a secluded area voluntarily, or may have been forced into one at some point beyond the bridge area towards Food of all Nations.
I do have a feeling, however, that the SunTrust ATM may hold more significance than has been detailed. There are several secluded areas around this location and her scent was noted leading in this direction.
Still so many questions, but not many answers.
Joe
I was talking about John's trusty hellicopter.
SJones, Oh, I can also see 2 vehicles. Had you heard about the Sun Trust ATM connection that was mentioned above? Is that verified?
I am appreciative of your time.
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Please stop, Duh....must we be cruel on top of everything else? I know I am not moderator here but in the name of common decency can we please stop the violent slashing of other posters. It is one thing to disagree with comments but we have gotten downright unkind here and way too personal.
J.Me you know as well as anyone what kind of problems she created and it's nausiating to sit and read her acting like she has no idea why her post are unwelcomed! If I was "violently slashing" her believe me you would know it! I'm just stating the truth as it is, and I'm not gonna sugar coat it like everyone else. Nor am I going to feel bad about her "personal Issues", which are IMHO as made up as just about everything else she types. If you don't wanna hear the truth then don't read what I post k!
I guess the truth is as unwelcomed here as it was on FM! That's fine, I don't care if my post is deleted, i'll stick to Q's forum where it's appriciated.
Please be considerate of those of us who have not been part of other groups who just want to help to work on this case. This private and personal stuff is really not helpful to anyone. I get that some do not think Campbellhn's witness account is true. It is evident from other posters. Why not let us all make our own decisions now? Thank you.
A reminder to all about our commenting policy: no personal attacks, no accusations, no libelous statements. You're welcome to discuss the article and express opinions, but this thread is veering off course. It's unproductive, and I'll turn off commenting if the conversation here isn't elevated to meet the Hook's standards. --Courteney Stuart
DCGAME/SJONES/WHATEVEROTHER NAME YOU POST UNDER.. Make whatever assumptions you want about her, you are both trolls that interfere with finding morgans killer.
Sorry Courtney I'm done now.
I will continue to post as well as stay on topic as long as Courteney allows me too. Who believes me and who does not, is at their own discretion. I have no problems staying on course here with the article.
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Courteney, just caught your comment and am sure I am guilty as charged and will watch it as well.
AIC: Yes, you are "technially" correct as you are some times about the word "Negroe", however my comment was in the spirit of how it was used and we can agree no one uses that word anymore if they don't want to be offensive.
As to you grandmother, I can only assume she was ancient and used that word out of ignorance. No civilized person today would use the word "darkie" anymore.
Everyone is making great contributions and I do believe we all want to help or simply be a part of this case. I know tensions run high and personalities clash at times so again thank you Courtney for allowing this thread to stay open in spite of some of us getting in the way of progress. At least you allow some of us to attempt to work out the tensions to a degree-I mean by this you are not at all rigid or difficult and this speaks to your good nature and intelligence, even humor, as I know you see who is who posting and behind the names, know who some are elsewhere on other forums, and must have you own story you could tell on all of us here. :)
With my previous comment, I wanted to give many thanks to J.me, DCDame, and of course Courteney. I appreciate the measures to keep things under control here sincerely!