Snap o' the Day: Lee Park fight

snap-fightAfter a brief war of words, two men in Lee Park began throwing punches and wrestling each other to the ground. Within minutes two plain-clothed police officers arrived and handcuffed the two men.


I once had a a prominent County lady tell me that all these homeless people should be lined up and shot.

What on earth are you people suggesting we do? Yes, the street people are overwhelming the Mall cops, the library personnel, the local shopkeepers. Many of the repeat offenders (City cops know them all by name) take public transportation in from the County everyday. Many are substance abusers, mentally ill, under-educated, over-educated, brain-damaged, shell-shocked, foreclosed, disenfranchised, alienated.

If we strengthened City and County borders, outlawed tent cities . . .

Maybe if we made loitering a crime again, rounded them all up and put them to work cleaning trash on the interstate, would that suffice?

Charlottesville could become a "sundowner" town . . . don't let the sun go down on yer ass in this town, buddy.

Every one I've ever talked to had family . . .

I love how all right wingers always want to blame it on the liberals. Yet go to a conservative locations, and you find the only difference is that the jails are filthier, and the living standards for the majority are even lower. Add to that that anyone who has a lower lving standard is considered a loser and automatically incarcerated.

The drug addicts are on the streets because the GOP has been in charge eliminating every program designed to get people off drugs.

As far as the city, yeah, they are doing s stinking job. They invite a lot of the troubled in by insisting on having giant concert zones for partying, and turning every corner restaurant into a late night bar with deafening music. They don't enforce the rulkes that are there, and walk over anyone who expects a little bit of consistency.

They ruined the downtown, now they are trying to ruin Belmont.

All I know is that I have to take a drug test to keep my job and pay taxes so they can give the money to people who are not requiresd to take a drug test to get it.

Personal accountability. They hang out at the park because no one makes them earn their keep.

The problem is obviously that our public schools are producing too many morons who can't spell or understand basic math.

Typical arrogant news type... Thinks facts ought to have something to do with how people respond to an article...

There's an election coming in November . 2 people will join or re-join City Council. Who's best to run a safe, well managed city that protects it's neighborhoods and provides affordable water, sewer and other services ?

the issue is, these people exist, and you can't pretend they don't unless you lock them up, which is expensive and often unjust. personal responsibility is fine to preach, but simply incarcerating everyone who makes a different life "decision" than you would is a policy bound to failure. best bet is probably to patrol the park and mall well and hope they move to a less visible location.

Hey STEW, no kiddin, we KNOW they exist as they are very visible every day in Lee Park and also on the Mall. I agree, more patrols are needed. We have laws against littering, cursing, and fighting. These people should be expected to follow the same rules that other citizens follow. For the most part, they are excused/slapped on the wrist for their lawbreaking. My guess, these two are
aready back in the Park. The courts give them too many breaks. Lee Park was created for all to enjoy, but at this point the area is uninviting.
I'm all for helping those who try to help themselves or those who are truly needy. Charlottesville encourages,allows too many to drift along and avoid taking responsibility for their actions, lives.

I would like all of you to stop complaining. Charlottesville barely has a problem. I am from C'ville and am currently living in Cincinnati. I would like to take all of you here for a visit and then let you judge how bad of a problem you have. I worked on the mall for 5 years and felt completely safe leaving work and walking around past 1 or 2 in the morning. Of course there are going to be homeless people, of course there is going to be some level of violence but complaining about it and setting up more police patrols is not going to help. It requires a broader policy change on the part of city planners to provide more affordable housing and better education services. Otherwise you just drive them from Lee Park to Stonewall Jackson Park or somewhere else. These people are a reality so please just deal with them, they honestly aren't causing that much harm, and if they were to cause problems the police would step in as the photo and story indicated they did.

If you want to make it better change social policy not police policy.

Displaced Local, SORRY..I sense a problem here?????

My criticism is not directed toward the police. They did a fine job here. The city polititions and a local legal system that coddles slackers is to blame.

The Lee Park plight makes me sick! The city has set up a situation wherein Lee Park and surroundings are a hangout for thugs and drunks. It will only get worse as the city govt. is doing all they can to make it too easy for these people. My guess, we'll have more drug addicts, beggers, and hoodlums moving to Charlottesville as time goes on. Don't the politicians realize drunks don't want to spend the day in a shelter or an apartment? No, such bums would rather annoy, fight, beg, and rob others.
I remember when the downtown churches brought children to Lee park for picnics. Wellbehaved people are afraid to visit Lee Park now.


You can thank all the liberal democrats for this!

Interesting. The police guys I talk with tell me many of the "problems" are coming in from other areas like Waynesboro or VA Beach. The question is, Why wouldn't they come here? After all they have the city departments bending over backwards for them. They are given all of the free food they can eat,etc., etc., etc.
The problem is, areas near the Mall are getting trashed. Residents are scared to walk in the evenings near the Mall. The Lee Park area spells double trouble. Queen Charlotte residents are furious. Shady people sit on the fence around the place. This is all a real shame for Charlottesville and a byproduct of mismanagement of this situation.

Yeah, Agrestic is right! This would NEVER happen somewhere like Waynesboro!

Charlottesville can hold to a higher standard! As some bums from the county ride the bus in order to "spend the day in the city", I say either MAKE them behave or drive them down to the county office building and dump them on the front porch! The county is easily pushing their own problems on the city.The county tore down the tent city and gave no other solution. The county is smarter than the city. They are very effective in ridding themselves of problems and then dumping on the city. Take the Parkway issue: It is the county that has a traffic problem and not the city. The city should expect the county to provide recreation, housing, clothing, and food for their own bums.


Thanks for your comments. However, I feel I should mention that the two men involved in this fight appeared to be neither drunk or on drugs or homeless. Just real mad at each other. Therefore, I'm not sure it should be taken as a symptom of some larger problem. Thanks for reading.

Dave McNair

I find it interesting that most of the people posting on the article are not interested in facts or truth. But I offer these anyway:
Fact: In 95% of violence involving Homeless persons they are the victim not the perpetrator. Nationally reported estimates show that 160 homeless persons suffered violence at the hand of housed perpetrators in 2007. 28 of those victims died as a result.

Fact: 82% of chronically homeless persons presenting at one local shelter are from the local 3 county area, with 45% of all homeless persons reporting being from Charlottesville city. They are our neighbors, brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles. Further, 50% of them are WORKING but can't find affordable housing.

Fact: Those who are housed begin to be productive again. This has been proven by Housing First models all over the US.

I hope none of you ever have to experience homelessness. But if you do, I hope you are treated with dignity and fairness rather than the hate and ridicule you have expressed in this forum.

I can't believe that folks are singling out the homeless to be the designated boogeyman in Charlottesville. Talk about picking on the weakest most down-on-their-luck segment of the population. Too chicken to address the real problems, like the issues that lead to homelessness in the first place?

I can guaran-damn-tee you that, thanks to the salaries your taxes pay, there are some very well-off staff and elected and appointed officials in both the city and county who have caused you a hell of a lot more problems than the homeless could ever be capable of. But because they're not smelly or shabbily dressed, or otherwise offensive to your dainty eyes, they're not on your radar.

I promise you, taxpayers commit as many or more crimes in this area than the homeless.

killing them softly huh Dave?!

Most of the homeless that I have met have chosen homlessness over living by someone elses rules. If they had simply cleaned their room, not stayed out all night, not stolen their grandmothers jewelry, not come home drunk, not talked back so damn much they would have a warm place to stay.

If these people would grow up then we could easily handle the people with REAL problems.

This city is full of whiners. It's like this contest to see who can post the most complaints and be the most glib and snarky of the bunch.

And about this comment:

'wuts wrong with this city?' said: "...all they are is a bunch of old farts who elected themselves for city council so they didnt have to go to the laurels or some old person home."

You obviously aren't very familiar with who the City Councilors of Charlottesville are. While Julian Taliaferro is indeed getting up there in years, as is Mr. Huja, it's safe to say that Holly Edwards, a mother of young children, and Dave Norris, born in 1970, are far from being in the "old fart" category, trying to find something to occupy their time so they don't have to be shipped off to the old folks home. And Dave Brown would hardly qualify either. So, "who's with you?" Uh...nobody?

We realize not all of the inappropriate badly behaved people in Lee park are in the homeless catagory. Sadly, some of the thugs just "act" as if they are down on their luck! In reality many of the shiftless lazy people who hang out in Lee Park are people who are "up to no good". The city is becoming blighted, dirty instead of getting better. Is all of the money being thrown to social programs stopping the fighting, shooting and killing in Charlottesville? As I read the newspaper, it appears the problems are getting worse. I well remember walking downtown after 10:00PM. NO MORE :-((( And because of bad apples. AND that makes me angry.

And Dave, Thanks for sharing the photo. I must mention, the scary thing is, many times you "just can't tell whether or not" violent people are drugged or a little drunk. Sad but true..

Stew, also agree, if they continue to misbehave and break local LAWS, make them move out of the Park. This is only fair. Maybe they will go back to Waynesboro, but i doubt it. They like the freebies here.

all im sayin is that we need to get some young people. late 20's early 30's who know about the city and know what theyre doing and dont think of them selves all the damn time. take the parkway, theyve been fighting it for 40+ years! its going through a golf course for god sakes. get over it! its being build one way or another. i emailed the mayor and asked him if he was all for everything happening in mcintire park, he replied

"Thanks for your input, but I could not disagree more. Parks are for recreation, not for pavement. A one-acre YMCA, which will promote recreation, is a great fit for that park. A road which will replace over 20 acres of greenspace with pavement is a terrible fit for that park. I understand your point about not wanting to have the Parkway terminate at Melbourne, and if your support for the Parkway was premised solely upon that point, I could respect that. But to go on and say it's 40 years in the making so we should just build it, and to dismiss the huge impact it's going to have on the park, I don't support that line of argument at all. But again, thanks for contacting me, it's always good to hear what's on the minds of local citizens even if I don't always agree with them! Best, Dave"

two words..... dumb @$$.

plop, I'm so glad you don't come out after 10:00 p.m. any more. I never go out before then, so I will be pleased to never have a chance to meet you in person. I've never once been threatened downtown by the way, even during the late night hours you spend peeing your bed.

wuts..., You are stunningly clueless. What does the Parkway have to do with this article anyway? The irony of idiots who can barely communicate or think clearly calling other people "morans" and "dumb @$$es" never fails to be amusing though.

Wuts-- if your letter to the Mayor was anywhere near as rambling and idiotic as your posts here, then he was most generous to reply to a bumpkin such as yourself.

Dave was pleasant and gracious to you, and even treated you as though you possessed intelligence (which is admittedly an enormous stretch), yet you called him a dumb @$$. You're your own worst enemy, aren't you?

"plop, I’m so glad you don’t come out after 10:00 p.m. any more. I never go out before then, so I will be pleased to never have a chance to meet you in person. I’ve never once been threatened downtown by the way, even during the late night hours you spend peeing your bed.

wuts”Š, You are stunningly clueless. What does the Parkway have to do with this article anyway? The irony of idiots who can barely communicate or think clearly calling other people ââ?¬Å?morans” and ââ?¬Å?dumb @$$es” never fails to be amusing though."

:D Love it!

I too have never had a problem being out at night around here, although I'm not going to deny that others may have. Everybody has their own experiences. I think the people who believe Charlottesville has gotten sooooo bad have no real basis of comparison. To them it's bad, and they're at home peeing their beds, fretting and complaining. I've lived in real urban areas in other parts of the country, and Cville with its 10.4 square mile radius (bwaahahahaha!) isn't even in the same league as those other cities, and the kinds of things going on there. There are areas of the country where you truly wouldn't want to be out alone at night, wandering about. Cville isn't one of those places in my opinion. Even at its supposed lowest, which some here believe it's at, Cville is still miles above most cities. But that's just my opinion.

With the economy worsening there will be more of this, and more homeless, disturbed, and addicted people wandering the Mall. The City needs a plan.

Did you *morans* miss the clarification by Dave McNair? He wrote: "I feel I should mention that the two men involved in this fight appeared to be neither drunk or on drugs or homeless. Just real mad at each other. Therefore, I’m not sure it should be taken as a symptom of some larger problem."

Seems pretty clear that the city has developed "an(effective) plan." There are laws against that sort of behavior and they've hire police who, "within minutes ... arrived and handcuffed the two men." You were hoping for a summary execution?

You're right woot. Sounds as if some want to clean up the place and get their city back!

galileo, What is your prob? As I go back and read your posts, in a nutshell, you're not making good sense. Unless drug testing was administered "no one really knows" whether or not drugs were an issue in this case. I was born and grew up in Charlottesville and I can tell you the "morans" are more correct than you are. Parts of Downtown are a filthy mess. More preventative measures should be taken ASAP. Lee Park is a dump and an eyesore on most days. Hanger outers have even scarred the historic statue in the past. The police need to restrict those who violate rules, and also KICK them out of Lee Park, for good. The city has work to do.

Wow. A fist fight sure does bring out the doom and gloom bunch.

Simon, "Cry me a river". You'll wake up when one of those you feel so sorry for, beats the livin &&&!!!!! out of you one dark night. THAT is the big problem here. In fact, someone was assaulted very near there recently. Innocent lawabiding folks who want to enjoy downtown CAN'T and because of THOSE SORTS.
Yes I agree, hold them accountable and expect them to contribute. Can't they AT LEAST be expected to pick up the trash they leave in Lee Park?

wuts wrong with this place? our city has gone to hell. theres nothing here anymore. 25% of half the people i know have moved out of cville.i live in the good part of cville. and even it is going to hell and looking run down now. charlottesville sucks. our "city council" needs to grow up and get a life. all they are is a bunch of old farts who elected themselves for city council so they didnt have to go to the laurels or some old person home. our city needs help. one way or another. whos with me?

TJ, You are correct. Something must change. "The city needs to develop an(effective) plan."