What do you think of red-light cameras?
Write a letter to the editor
As County officials announced recently, a red-light camera and video system is being installed at the intersection of Rio Road and 29 North. It’s going up October 11, but there will be a 30-day “warning period” before red-light runners are sent $50 tickets in the mail.
So, what do you think of this idea? The Hook wants to know!
That’s the longest intersection this side of the Mississippi. Terrific way for the County to make some extra money. I suspect we will soon have cameras downtown…..waiiiiiit a minute
I think its perfect!!!! I have never lived in a place were I have seen so many people that runs red lights as I see here in charlottesville. I’m talking sometimes 4 cars running a redlight. I think its great!!!
Actually I didn’t know until last week that all those cameras up and down 29 weren’t already working! I have no problem with it; people here seem to think that red lights mean “slow down a little.” I’ve seen too many near-misses, and had a couple myself, with red-light runners.
I think they are great (psych!)….maybe the police officers in this town can now go out and enforce something other than TRAFFIC LAWS. Wait a minute…traffic laws are a source of revenue…..I would love to know the statistics of the number of people who are found guilty ( when they show up in traffic court) vs. the conviction rate of non-traffic related “crimes”. I am willing to bet the this ratio is like 100 to 1…..Doesn’t anyone care about this? If the town really cared about traffic safety, instead of making the driver pay a fine, they should make the driver pay for a class to improve his/her driving skills.
Does anyone know how much money is generated in traffic tickets each year? I am truly curious. ( Charlottesville and Albemarle county )
I think it’s a Crime, Big brother watching You type of stuff, But what bothers me is that these tickets will be issued by a private company working for the county. And let’s not get into how digital images can be altered by anyone with a PC, meaning the person on the other end can easily generate income for the county by changing that yellow or green dot to a red one. And since I was always told that you have the right to confront your accuser in a court of law, How’s that gonna work for a camera, Government is out of control on all levels, time to take out the trash.
horrible
While running red lights is a problem in this area having cameras record it and mailing tickets out is wrong. I should have the right to confront who ever is writing the ticket. I don’t think the board of supervisors is worrying about the crime just some easy money for them to spend; it’s still wrong! If you think it’s wrong contact you supervisor and tell them so and tell them if it is not stopped you will remove them form office. After that contact your state Delegate and Senator and tell them the same thing since they changed the law to allow this. WE are the government and if we want to bad enough we can change things!
Considering this is an intersection with pathetically short green and yellow lights for it’s size, they’ll rake in the cash. I’ve been the 3rd car in the left turn row on Rio, entered the intersection with a green light, and not gotten across before it turns red.
Quite simply, these cameras are for revenue boosting and nothing more. Locals (hopefully) will heed the cameras presence and become more aware. A greater threat to our motoring safety are those who insist on driving (or not driving) while yammering on their wireless devices more than likely discussing something insignificant. As a local and non-cellphone owner, I have no problem with paying attention to what I’m doing while driving in the region red light cameras or not. Safety first, communication second!
I think it is terrible that it has come to this. Too many people paying little or no attention to driving. Too many people talking trivia on the phone and in too big a hurry to stop at a red light while putting other peoples’ lives in danger. How about three pictures and you loose your license for a year!
Can they actually capture the image of the person driving the car? If not aren’t do they simply give the owner a ticket under the assumption that they were driving. How does this work in other states? Overall I think its just another big brother move….
Charlottesville is a terrible city for red light running. Drivers here deserve more enforcement, but it should be done by live police officers who have presence and discretion that an automated camera can’t provide.
The studies I’ve read indicate that while red light cameras may decrease the number of traffic accident injuries at an intersection (Less “Bad” accidents), the actual number of fender benders may actually increase. Rio and 29 seems like a “minor accident” type of intersection to me already.
This is most-likely just a revenue generation effort by the local government.
Assuming that each “offender” gets due process and has the right to a day in court, the best tactic for locals desirous of an end to this is to demand a hearing and show up to fight the tickets. I personally had a similar ticket in another city dismissed because the court was so backed up with people fighting their machine-generated citations that the statute’s time limits for enforcement had passed. In any case, increased court burdens will quickly negate revenue benefits to the city/county and act as a disincentive for them to continue.
Of course the surest way to make sure it remains is to mail them a check when the thing arrives in the mail.
At the end of 6 months I would like to see the actual percentage increase in the amount of rear end collisions at this intersection, compared to the rear end accidents for the 6 months prior to these cameras going into service. It’s nothing more than a trade off. Less accidents caused by people running red lights, but more rear end collisons caused by Mr. Obey Da Law who slams on his brakes to make sure he doesn’t get a red light summons in the mail.
It does not reduce the total amount of accidents, it simply increases revenue to the county. The reporter needs to ask whether the tickets going out in the mail will be written as a state law violation or as a county law violation. It does make a difference as to where the money goes obviously.
@ks is correct about length of this particular light. There should be a sign with 6′ letters that reads SIGNAL ALLOWS TWO CARS PER GREEN.
Otherwise, the red light cam will a cash cow and seems as if it’s meant to be such, instead of a “safety feature.”
I’m extremely disappointed in the decision to install redlight cameras. I believe this is terrible public policy. I sincerely hope the cameras are soon eliminated.
I live between Charlottesville and Richmond. Guess where I’m going to be shopping after the eleventh of October. Short Pump alone has more stores than all of Charlottesville. If enough people abandon the shops and businesses along Rt 29, the business owners will apply pressure to the local government.
I like Joe’s idea. I’m retired and perfectly willing to spend days clogging the courts…
BB has the right idea, too. Complain to your supervisor and county and state officials.
Intersection cameras are no more than a revenue stream for both the private company manning the cameras and the local government that hired it.
They, the camera operators have no concern about “accidents,” just raking in money.
Frankly, I’d rather be taxed than victimized by government sanctioned theft.
Thanks for your responses! Another question: when a light turns green, do you take off straight ahead with out looking around, trusting the light, or do you still scan the intersection to see if any cars might be coming?
Dave McNair
I lower my sunglasses like The Rock; scan the intersection, then proceed slowly through the intersection so all the ladies get a good view of my sled.
We will never see the police ticketing the people who sit motionless for the duration of green lights.
Why not fine the ding-a-ling who designs these horrible intersections?
Traffic studies have shown that the number of cars running red lights decreases when red-light cameras are installed and the number of rear end collisions increases. Traffic studies also have demonstrated that the same reduction in red light violations can be effected by increasing the length of the yellow light by 1.5 seconds with no increase in rear-enders.
Jeff D - You should have been in the car with me a few years ago when I was sitting at the intersection of Barracks Rd and Millmont waiting to turn left into Barracks Rd North. The car in front of me in the turn lane was full of college age males. One of them climbed out the back window and dashed into a Barracks Rd North store while the car sat through the green light. I got out of my vehicle, walked up to the drivers door and said “The next time that light turns green, I am going to push you through the intersection if you don’t go on your own.” Fortunately for all involved, the errant errand runner dashed back to the car and climbed back in the window before the next green and just in time for the car to pull (illegally) into the through traffic lane and for all to go on their merry way.
I look both ways when the light turns green. Have ever since a friend lost both his parents when a red light runner t-boned their car.
Regarding the cameras, “book ‘em Dano”.
Now, if we could get all the CHO City and Albemarle CO vehicles to put on those “pace car” stickers and drive the speed limit…
Wow Wog, fascinating story. Picturing Jeff D in your Fiero with you makes it even more titillating.
Always look to the left for oncoming traffic before entering an intersection when the light turns green. This was the first thing I taught my three student drivers. I truly believe it has saved four lives, more than once, at Rt. 29N and Ashwood Blvd.
As for the cameras. It is about time. If that doesn’t work, do I have permission to go bounty hunting? Seriously, what is with red light runners in this town? Two cars per light cycle? Is that after reading the morning paper, brushing your hair, and downing a cup of Joe? Yeah, that’s me in your rearview mirror wondering why you are on the road.
Red light tickets are a crime of the government taking money from the citizens.
If the county rally wanted to make Rio Road and US 29 safer, they would conduct high profile and random police enforcement campaigns (with real cops not the cameras). It has already been shown, do you know of any police campaigns to enforce the madness at Rio Road and US 29? That’s my point.
Such “red light” cameras are only to raise cash. Don’t let them fool you, the county is too lazy to put their backs into making traffic safer on 29. They really care less about safety and more about money.
Dave,
Thanks to a lot of years of driving up and down 29, I look both ways when the light turns green. That started once when I was waiting to make a left turn onto 29 southbound from Rio. The green arrows came on, and I had trouble getting my car into first gear. When I finally got it and started to go, a semi came charging through the long yellow light. Were it not for some recalcitrant synchronizers in my transmission, I may not be here to write this. I’ve seen too many other near misses.
But the answer is not to add cameras to enforce the red lights. The answer is to lengthen the yellows. If a vehicle has more time to safely cross an intersection, there is a lower chance of it hitting a car entering the intersection, no? Of course these cameras aren’t about safety; they never are. And in many localities, they’re gone within a year. All we have to do is not run that particular red light, or any where cameras exist. If the company running them can’t make money, that’s the end of them. If they shorten the yellows to catch more people, well, let’s hope they don’t.
Wow, major brain fart. Where it says “a semi came charging through the long yellow light,” I meant to say “the red light.” I Had my next point on my mind and wrote it a little early.
It is about time. I will feel safer now.
I love it! I have been in Charlottesville for nearly 3 yrs now, and I have never in my life seen SOOOOOOO MANY PEOPLE RUN RED LIGHTS!! I mean WOW! I have seen people run a red light before, and my reaction would be “OMG, that person just ran a red light!” But in Cville, it’s like a regular thing. Start putting those citations in the mail, WHOO HOO!
The red light situation in this area is the worst I’ve seen in frequent travels around the country (Well maybe Boston). The traffic management culture in this area is to reflexively place traffic lights and to be sloppy about how they’re used. Often lights cycle 24/7 even though they may only be truly needed for a few hours a week during peak traffic times. There is a light near Washington Park which cycles to allow phantom traffic to leave the park at night when it’s closed. Another on Hydraulic Road&Georgetown Rd. which allows an interval for phantom traffic leaving a dentist’s office at midnight and still another at the intersection of Rosehill Drive and Rugby Ave. which is a ghost town at night, yet the light continues its mindless robot cycle. The failure of administrators to adequately program traffic lights for actual conditions (such as turning 90% of them to flashing red/yellow at night) promotes driver frustration and contempt for “the law”.
These traffic cameras are a devil’s deal between localities and corporate interests, sort of like a vending machine. The company supplies the equipment, takes the revenue, and gives the locality a cut of the profits. So the locality spends no money and gets a revenue stream. Priceless.
Angel Eyes, it does not matter if driver’s get frustrated. YOU DON’T RUN RED LIGHTS!! Driver’s Ed. 101. If you run one, you pay…esp now…thanks to the cameras. Yay.
BB- the violator has the right to confront who is writing the ticket in court. The camera. If the image is you, the plate is yours, and you can’t figure a way out of this one, then you are quilty. There is no reason to run a red light. You run a red light, you are caught, you pay the fine (hopefully not an involuntary manslaughter charge atached) and you don’t do it again.
What the heck is wrong with that?
You think you are going to talk your way out of running a red light if the cop is there to write the ticket? Think again. You run the light, you pay the fine , you get teh points and you move on- slowly.
The difference between Cville and other places is that in Cville, people tend to ENTER the intersection AFTER the light has turned red! Anyone can get caught in an intersection after having entered on a yellow, but these particular drivers are going way beyond that.
Re Dave’s question about looking both ways before proceeding on a green, I admit to not being as cautious as I should be. I look, but really quickly, before gunning it through. The reason that I do this is because I’m trying to make up for the general pattern of dawdlers at lights in the hope I can lead more alert people through while the light is still green. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve gone all the way through an intersection and looked in my rearview mirror to see the car behind me barely beginning to enter, leaving a long line of frustrated vehicles behind them. Presumably, some of those drivers will try to run the red so they don’t have to wait another couple of cycles.
Charlottesville: We aggressively enter on Red, but sit there texting and daydreaming on Green. They don’t use their signals either. Other areas of the country have nastier drivers. Ours fall in the category of completely oblivious.
If you think this is just about revenue and you don’t want to pay, well you don’t have to. It’s really simple, just stop for the red light.
I’ve been stopping for red lights at that intersection for many years and I have not been rear ended once.
I am happy to see the police use this technology to enforce laws that protect the public safety.
Let me interject this as food for thought and see where it goes. The intersection in question, Rio and 29….If you are crossing 29 there are eight (8) lanes of traffic PLUS to cross. With the lack of patients of the average Cville driver, those who are oblivious to their current world (texting, talking on their cell phones, or just plain messing around (the kid jumping out of the car at the stop light to run an errand and the driver waiting thru a green light)) and the poor souls who seem to try to do the right thing…don’t you think the current traffic pattern down 29 is a recipe for disaster? Regardless of “red light cameras”? I, for one, feel it’s like putting a bandaid on a wound that needs stitches. It’s a start, but not a complete solution….
Red light cameras are just like “speeding enforcement” in neighborhoods. The very first people who get caught and whine are usually those who asked for and are glad to see the enforcement in place.
Back in the early 70s, the residents around Angus Road were whining about hot rodders leaving Kenny Burger and speeding up Angus Road. When the police responded and worked radar for several weekends, the majority of those caught were residents of the neighborhood. The hot rodders had warned each other not to go up Angus Road.
The police couldn’t catch the real hot rodders anyway. They all had finely tuned muscle cars. And all the police had was a new fleet of new full size Dodge Polaras with the 383 4 barrel V-8s that sputtered and backfired from all the city driving day in and day out.
I guess you at least have a picture of the car and license plate with the red light cameras. Because times haven’t changed much. A Honda outran every county police car that joined in the chase on Rio Road about 2 weeks ago.
Money would have been better spent on synchronizing the stop lights in C-ville and on 29. Every light is always red when you pull up and the light on Rio Road is particularly menacing as it only allows two cars through on a green. Boo to Big Brother. I have lost all faith in the decision making of our government. It would be nice to see an officer or politician caught on camera running the light. God is great, beer is good and people are CRAZY!!
This is terrible - KS is right about the length and where these cameras have been installed (here in VA and elsewhere), the companies contracted to manage them have wound up shortening yellow lights even further in order to jack up the number of tickets in order to generate enough revenue to recoup the cost of the equipment. GSOE is spot-on - the rear-end collisions are the telling feature.
Yes, far, far too many people run red lights on 29N. This is not a symptom of lawlessness so much as a symptom of a broken road system. How about instead of RLCs we take out a few of those obnoxious lights!. Fashion Square Mall has THREE lights. Why did Schewell’s get their very own traffic light? The situation is as bad as it is because we allowed traffic engineering policy to be dominated and dictated by the US-29 business lobby - Carter Myers and his buddies - instead of sound traffic engineering principles.
Well, lots of county revenue, more road rage and more congestion…just to give the Big Boxes left-hand turn lights. Access roads folks…access roads…there is no reason US-29 cannot completely satisfy the entire local and through demand and do so without being clogged up.
I want to know who will be organizing to sue over this? I’ll be joining in…
As an avid cycler the unfortunate truth is that most of the lights in town do not recognize and respond when I pull up to the light. Being a law abiding citizen I have literally sat at red light for over 15 minutes waiting for it to change in the wee early morning hours(and the only reason it changed is that a car came along to activate it!). If the entire signaling system isn’t revamped I will be receiving a lot of tickets because I have no other choice than to run a red!
I doubt the government was the one who asked for the cameras, it was probably other Americans just like you. Remember, when you run a red light, you aren’t screwing the man, you are taking the green light rights away from your fellow man, and that’s who asked their “big brother” what could be done to make sure every American is following the rules the apply to every other American.
The government can’t win or lose in America, they are simply the referee. Life here could be a pick-up game if we all agreed to follow the rules on our own accord, but there are too many cheaters, so now we all have to pay the ref. The winners and losers are the people on the roads, not “big brother”. He just gets paid in his role as referee.
Funny (not really) how many people get their panties in a bunch when a professional athelete they have never met is playing a game that has no impact on their life in a city they have never been to and makes a foul in the game. They are the same people who speed and run red lights in their own city, putting people they might know in danger, but complain about the “ref” who “has nothing better to do” than to “take away their rights”. Treat life like you treat sports, and quit cheating! Then we can send the ref home and quit paying him, and still play the game the only we can win or lose.
If they’re going to raise some money with the red-light runners, maybe they’re going to build an overpass instead of a Texas-sized open space. Oh, I forgot, I live in Charlottesville.
As a motorcyclist I have never lived anywhere that has so many red light runners (or other terrible driving habits). I can almost guarantee witnessing one every time I go out for a ride through town. It will increase revenue no doubt, but maybe people paying some money, or the fear of paying some money will finally get them to obey the laws. Running lights kills people, very different from a speeding infraction. The whole rear ending thing seems like an excuse. Isn’t that what yellow lights are for. If you are beyond 100 feet or so from an intersection in town when the light changes, you can stop. The problem people are the ones who gun it when they are about 200+ plus feet away and the light is red before they even enter the intersection.
Letting a private company run it is a mistake. Otherwise I realize running red lights is a problem but I think it’s a problem that should have an officer solving it by writing tickets.
To AT, who asked how it works in other states:
I can only speak for Collin Co Texas, where I live now. Red light cameras were installed at certain intersections 2 years ago. If you run a red light, lights flash and the camera makes a recording of your car going through the intersection. The owner of the car gets a notice in the mail a few days later. The fine is $75. There are no “points” assessed. If the owner wishes to contest the ticket, s/he ends up sitting down with a judge and they watch the recording. The rule here is that if any part of your car is in the intersection before the light turns red, you’re not guilty.
I have a plave in CVille as well as Charlotte, NC. These cameras have been in place in Charlotte, NC for years and they’re affect. Follow common traffic laws and you won’t have a problem. About a year ago they expanded in Charlotte to vans having cameras set in them with cameras. These cameras were linked to police cars further down the road and used to stop speeders. Don’t drive like a jerk and this won’t have any impact on you.
about time
i’m one of the few tractor tralier drivers out there that supports this necessary evil, i also support red light cameras, and all trucks in right lane unless turning left when coming into towns, and especially at traffic lights. i think the revenue generated by this is the best idea to date. i say pay to play and its better than tax hikes. all drivers have got away with this anything go’s way to long, and the cops never seem to inforce anything but speeding. now i find myself supporting things i would otherwise be opposed to.
Good questions, Mr. McNair. However, I believe that driver distraction is the main traffic issue in C’ville and elsewhere. Running a red light can cause a collision, but talking on your cell or eating a sandwich can do equal or greater harm. A week ago, CSPAN aired a day-long symposium regarding driver distraction. The Secretary of Transportation was the last speaker. The movement to ban all driver cell-phone use (including hands-free devices; it’s a cognitive issue not a mechanical one that causes accidents) is finally starting to gain traction. Most citizens are behind prospective legislation enacting an all-out ban on cell-phone use while driving, but nationwide, lawmakers are dragging their heels.
Dave, how about doing a story on how local citizens and legislators feel about a ban on all cell-phone use while driving?
FocusDriven.org would be a great place to start. And yes, I believe that Gasbag is absolutely correct–the new cameras on Route 29 will increase rear-end collisions. Are there not all sorts of neurological implications that accompany whiplash, by the way? Enhanced revenue at the cost of more brain injuries is not an acceptable tradeoff.
They will only increase rear end collisions if the collider is tailgating.
I have always wondered why someone must tailgate- been guilty of it for sure…you certainly do not get there any faster.
I have also wondered why someone must run a red light. You do not get there any quicker- relative to the clock.
I am not sure that a camera will stop the red light running immediately, but it surely will affect some bank accounts.
Yeah, I have a problem with the private enterprise aspect of this, but here’s the bottom line:
1. There are signs before the intersection telling you they are using red light cameras.
2. Nearly everybody knows what a red light means.
3. If you fail to stop for the red light, the camera you were just warned about will take your picture and presumably catch you in the act of violating a traffic law.
So if you KNOW there’s a red light camera and you still run the light, tough cookies for you. If the cameras were covertly placed, this would be a different situation. But they aren’t.
TJB wrote: “And let’s not get into how digital images can be altered by anyone with a PC, meaning the person on the other end can easily generate income for the county by changing that yellow or green dot to a red one.”
The camera is only activated when a car enters the intersection during a red light cycle. How is changing the “dot” color going to affect anything?
Mickiemac wrote: “Locals (hopefully) will heed the cameras presence and become more aware.”
That’s unlikely. I used to live north on 29 just south of Green County. The State Police used to set up a speed trap on the north-bound lanes of 29 just before Sheets almost - literally - everyday. When the State Police weren’t there, quite often the Green County Sheriff’s office was. For years. I was more surprised when I didn’t see a cop there.
One day I was talking to a State cop in Sheets and asked what the ratio of locals to out-of-towners they ticketed, and he said it was about 90% locals.
And they were there for years, in plain sight, not hiding.
SO I seriously doubt the red light cameras will be observed with any consistency by locals. If people think they can get away with running the light, and are in a hurry or are just arrogant jerks, they’re going to run the light.
The bypass and parkway will greatly reduce the traffic at this intersection, making life wonderful on 29 north. Cameras will not be needed in the very near future.
Music Lover, having worked radar in Greene County myself, and having seen the tickets other deputies wrote as well, it was nowhere close to 90% local residents. I think the trooper you were speaking to misundersttod the question you were asking him/her.
Harry D, let me explain why red light cameras increase rear end collisions. With people now realizing the cameras are in place, those who would normally speed up and try to beat a yellow light will now slam on their brakes instead. And the people behind them will continue to speed up trying to beat that yellow light thinking the person in front of them will do the same thing. You can’t change the statistics nationwide. And those statistics prove that rear end collisons increase at intersections with red light cameras.
The biggest problem I have with red light cameras and rear end collisons is the fact there’s so many people out here driving with no insurance nowadays. None whatsoever. And for whatever reason DMV hasn’t been sending out insurance verification letters to registered owners for the last several years. If you get rear ended at the Rio Road and 29 intersection, chances are 50-50 the driver that hits you will not have any insurance at all. And if your insurance company ends up paying out $200,000 in damages and medical bills, YOUR insurance will be cancelled on the next renewal date.
gasbag i was going to say thats BS, glad you cleared that 90% up.
An issue so far not discussed here: Who gets the ticket? If my son is driving my car and goes through the red light does he get the ticket? Does the photo/photos capture an image of the driver and if so, can it be used to prove that I was not the one behind the wheel?