Green kit: Is a $1.2 million reservoir in the bag?
Write a letter to the editor
David Tanner, Peggy Moore, and Ginger Quillen– and their water-saving devices.PHOTO BY HAWES SPENCER
While Charlottesville leaders continue to bicker over whether to dredge their reservoir or build a new one, a Waynesboro non-profit has unveiled a new idea in water conservation. In a late-December press conference, officials with Vector Industries unveiled a set of kitchen and bathroom devices they claim will reduce household water use by 34 percent— a savings that some see as a sort of reservoir-in-a-bag.
“It’s just the right thing to do,” said Vector’s Peggy Moore. “It’s just common sense.”
Dubbed the “Green Kit,” the $25 bag includes a low-flow showerhead plus three sink aerators, two kinds of toilet water reducers, a pair of leak detectors, and a roll of teflon tape for installation.
Vector operations manager David Tanner noted that thanks to the kit, long showers by his teenage daughter no longer deplete his home’s 30-gallon hot water heater. And Vector’s development manager Ginger Quillen— who, like many of Vector’s workers/clients, is confined to a wheelchair— said she had no trouble installing all the components. “There’s nothing to it,” said Quillen.
More to the conservation point, Quillen noted that despite the presence of houseguests, the Kit gave her home a 31 percent drop in water usage. That was particularly helpful financial news because, on the same day the Green Kit was unveiled, Waynesboro City Council unveiled some news of its own: a 35.2 percent spike in water rates.
Meanwhile, back in Charlottesville, officials with the Rivanna Water & Sewer Authority have done a lot of rate spiking of their own. Average rates climbed over five percent in fiscal 2008, with future increases on the way.
“It might make sense for the RWSA to buy thousands of these and give them away free,” said Rich Collins, a press conference attendee and an elected Soil & Water official from Charlottesville who has been critical of RWSA’s insistence on reservoir-building.
Indeed, when asked this same day, at the conclusion of his monthly board meeting if such a conservation strategy might make sense, RWSA chair Mike Gaffney dismissed the idea.
“I don’t think it’s the Authority’s responsibility to get into the retail end of the business,” said Gaffney. “We have two customers, and they don’t want us to mess with their customers.”
Yet the numbers, if Vector is correct, might entice the City— one of the two customers of which Gaffney speaks— to get involved. Vector says the kits, which its disabled clients assemble from components purchased from Niagara Conserveration, will pay for themselves in less than three months.
That last factor could also help explain why the RWSA might not rush to embrace such devices. At its December board meeting, the Authority board received the final financial report from 2008 fiscal year that ended in June. Despite— or perhaps because of— the rate hikes, water revenue was up only 2.9 percent. In fact, total metered water flows declined by 8.2 percent.
For every gallon conserved, RWSA makes less money. But that’s more money in the pockets of consumers, and that’s one of the reasons Vector got involved.
“With the economy the way it is,” said Vector’s Moore, “a few dollars makes a big difference.”
Over the course of a year under Waynesboro’s rates, Moore says, the kits could save a typical homeowner 35,000 gallons and $380 in cash. And that’s a shot that’s been heard over the mountain.
“If they can do it for $25 a pop, that says to me that we’re not going far enough,” says Charlottesville mayor Dave Norris, who has recently stood up to his county counterparts by demanding a new look at conservation. His actions have included halting construction work on the proposed new dam. Already, the new dam has cost water users about $5 million and appears headed toward an ultimate cost of over $200 million.
By contrast, even without any volume discount, it would cost just $1.2 million to buy a Green Kit for all 47,000 Charlottesville/Albemarle households on public water, and Norris admits he’s intrigued.
“If it’s true that with a $25 kit we can all reduce our water usage 34 percent,” says Norris, “it begs the questions a) Have we tried hard enough and b) Why is that not reflected in our water supply plan?”
Since early 2008, the water supply plan has been roiled in debate, most recently December 18 when the RWSA’s other customer, the Albemarle County Service Authority, fretted over the City’s stance. Service Authority Board member John Martin, who has been trying to block or delay dredging the existing reservoir, blasted City leaders in general and Norris in particular for their November 3 “unilaterial decision” to block the dam.
“That declaration was the most discourteous thing I’ve ever seen a governmental body do,” said Martin. “He doesn’t completely understand what water supply planning is all about,” said fellow board member Liz Palmer. “There is a certain Pollyanna character to it,” agreed Martin, as the board, as heard in a podcast, erupted in laughter.
Mayor Norris, however, is undeterred by the insults. He points out that the 50-year water plan’s goal for conservation is just 5 percent, about one-seventh of the 34 percent claimed by just one little bag of gizmos.
“If Waynesboro can figure out, at 25 dollars a pop, how to be seven times smarter,” says Norris, “that’s pretty sad.”
Write a letter to the editor
I believe the whole plan is just a plan by The Nature Conservancy to enact their Freshwater Inniative here in our community. Not so bad if it were not a massive experiment to be paid for by the water rate payers.
They say we are running out of water but this plan abandons our principal reservoirs. They are worth hundreds of millions of dollars and are valuable features of our community. With no reservoirs then of course we need a new one, even though it cost $200,000,000.00+++ additional dollars.
And the demand analysis does not consider that we have removed the golf courses from the RWSA system. And the conservation plan does not include grey water ordinances. In 50 years our usage will change entirely as society changes. Let’s engage a truly capable organization like the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers to help do a legitimate demand analysis.
While we are at it, perhaps the U.S. Army C.O.E. would review the safe yield computations with their modeling. Asking The Nature Conservancy to model the system and then design the solution to their liking is like asking the fox to guard the henhouse. Little is known of their modeling techniques and we are the first experiment with a municipal watershed.
There is plenty of evidence that we can dredge the existing reservoirs and have plenty of water for a thriving community. But then The Nature Conservancy will lose their experiment in their own backyard at our expense. A lot of work has gone into setting this experiment up. The Nature Conservancy actually went to Richmond and convinced the legislature to create a Rivanna River Basin Commission. Then they provided $450,000 of funds to this Governmental organization to study sedimentation in the South Fork Rivanna River Reservoir. 4 members of the RRBC, including the chair, sit on the Task Force voting on the recommendation yet to be submitted. That’s all good if you favor spending $200,000,000.00 of the rate payer’s money while letting the existing reservoir fill in. And of course no payments from The Nature Conservancy have been made in 2 years and they hold all the funds.
I guess we need to ask, WHY ARE THEY RESISTING ANALYSIS OF THE DEREDGING ALTERNATIVE SO AGRESSIVELY?
Observer: will you provide anything to substantiate any of your claims, please? Any further reading, specific legislative items, documentation, names of people…anything would be great. (I’ll note that my tone in this is not intended to imply that you’re wrong, it’s a sincere request for more information). This is the first I recall reading about the Nature Conservancy being involved in this. While they’d clearly have an interest in this sort of thing generally, I wasn’t aware that they are working specifically on this.
“I guess we need to ask, WHY ARE THEY RESISTING ANALYSIS OF THE DEREDGING ALTERNATIVE SO AGRESSIVELY?”
Exactly. The answer to that question would be mighty illuminating, to say the least.
Chris, I understand because initially I was baffled by the lack of information.
If you use the RWSA website you won’t find anything on The Nature Conservancy. First you may simply ask RWSA for copies of the communications from 2005 forward between RWSA and The Nature Conservancy. There is a letter from Brian Richter of TNC and Tom Frederick of RWSA which addresses the overall relationship and plan.
Then you may want to read “Rivers of Life” by Brian Richter which will outline the steps that are to be followed in the process from assessing the communities potential funding and political receptivity through the establishment of a River Basin Commission and writing what TNC calls a “Prescription” for the watershed. By the way this prescription will be changed as the results come in. It is an experiment. The book is difficult to obtain but available from the publisher Island Press.
Then you may wish to go on The Nature Conservancy web site and search for “Rivanna” and “Moorman’s”. There is quite a lot on our watershed. Additionally there is a section of the TNC website that requires you to create an account. Again there is a lot more there but you will have to sign a disclosure that the information will not be used against TNC.
All the above is just the starting place.
The Rivanna River Basin Commission does not have a website and information on their membership, intentions, findings and finances is difficult to obtain. They do not maintain a treasury but you may want to call Alyson Sappington, District Manager, Thomas Jefferson Soil and Water Conservation District. All the funds that may be given to RRBC are to be routed through her treasury first. Evidentially the donors to RRBC have given instructions to TNC that no funds will be provided unless certain unknown restrictions are met first. The TJSWCD is to be the gate on this.
There is a lot more and I believe new questions will arise along the way. The community should have been made aware long ago and I truly do not understand the way this has been communicated to the Rate Payers.
Someone offered the following which was attributed to Supervisor Slutzky.
(paraphased)
If we ever allow a dredge into the South Fork Reservoir, then we will loose our new pumped storage.
$1.2 million to save $200 million sounds like a nobrainer
Based on this article, it’s a good thing the Rivanna River Basin Commission was established. I for one appreciate TNC’s efforts, despite the above comments.
http://www.dailyprogress.com/cdp/news/local/article/rivanna_river_watershed_fails_watchdogs_standards/25291/
The baseless claims of Mr. Observer are pretty funny.
Jim will you be one of the ratepayers forking over $200 million to pay for the TNC water plan?
Jim,
Which claims are you finding baseless? Want the backup?
JIm,
Did you really need an article in the Daily Progress or the Nature Conservancy to know that local streams were unhealthy? It is pretty obvious if you look. $50,000 to find that out seems like a huge waste of money to me.
If that is all the information you have to go on, I’m wondering how you could possibly find fault with what observer wrote.
Thanks for the suggestions about websites to check, Observer. Turns out, I moved back to Charlottesville just after the series of articles in the Hook that noted TNC’s involvement in at least some of the basis for the thinking about water supply issues here. (I moved back to town from San Francisco in June of this year.) I’ve been poking through the archives here and looking around TNC’s website as well. I don’t have any conclusions in my own mind yet, but I greatly appreciate the heads up and knowing where to look for more information.
Chris,
I forgot to mention thisw website The Hook. They have provided excellent coverage of this loval issue. Search their website.
“I don’t think it’s the Authority’s responsibility to get into the retail end of the business,” said Gaffney. “We have two customers, and they don’t want us to mess with their customers.”
Will somebody please fire this guy?
Thanks to the Charlottesville City Council we just missed our chance
It amazes me that anyone questions The Nature Conservancy’s involvement and investment in the current water supply plan. Read the minutes of the RWSA September 13, 2007 meeting. Bottom of page 5, Tom Frederick is reported to say about tying improved stream flow to the project,
“The Authority as an organization worked extensively on this issue, and it has been the top issue recently in terms of staff time, energy and resources. It has been a collaborative approach with The Nature Conservancy (TNC) who has also invested tremendous resources on this project. From TNC’s perspective, he felt it was an attempt to develop a new way to provide stream flows associated with dams and water supplies that could be used throughout the country.”
TNC is clearly using our water supply planning process to experiment with what they want to use as a national model. The problem is that’s it is OUTRAGEOUSLY
(continued) it is outrageously EXPENSIVE. So the question becomes, why should the water rate payers have to fund what has become more a river restoration project than a water supply plan.
Paying for this massive project on the backs of those least able to pay (rate payers include all city residents, 25% of whom live below federal poverty levels, and less than half of county residents) has to be the most regressive way possible to fund this experiment.
and why is the City Council, the financial guardians of city resources including the Ragged Mt. Natural Area (980 acres of mature forest) and all the reservoirs, not looking to first maintain their resources and consider the cost to THEIR RATEPAYERS and sustainability of city assets. Instead they seem to be putting the interests of the Nature Conservancy and private property owners in the western part of Albemarle County first.
Please can someone explain their support of this crazy and expensive plan ?
If you want to see a lobbyist in action come to the next Dredging Task Force meeting on Tuesday, Jan 13th, 6pm in the basement conference room of City Hall and watch Ridge Schuyler,from the Nature Conservancy, and architect of the pump water uphill scheme, pull out all the stops to prevent dredging the Rivanna Reservoir for part of the water supply plan
$1.2 MILLION RESERVOIR! We did that already. Remember? I guess not.
Big Boy, you mean the $5 million + we spent getting concepts that wouldn’t work ( pipeline in the route of 29 bypass) and assumptions that don’t hold water ( dredging estimate of $223 million) from Gannett Fleming ?
Re the following:
“That declaration was the most discourteous thing I’ve ever seen a governmental body do,” said Martin. “He doesn’t completely understand what water supply planning is all about,” said fellow board member Liz Palmer. “There is a certain Pollyanna character to it,” agreed Martin, as the board, as heard in a podcast, erupted in laughter.
Mayor Norris, however, is undeterred by the insults. He points out that the 50-year water plan’s goal for conservation is just 5 percent, about one-seventh of the 34 percent claimed by just one little bag of gizmos.
“If Waynesboro can figure out, at 25 dollars a pop, how to be seven times smarter,” says Norris, “that’s pretty sad.”
–
John Martin and Liz Palmer’s statements are incredibly rude and condescending. Mayor Norris has proven himself time and time again to be a REAL leader. He has the brains to keep looking for solutions to this mess, and the guts to stand up to pressure from the RWSA and TNC. A marked contrast to the lazy and greedy BOS who will rubberstamp anything the RWSA throws at them, just so long as they aren’t forced to actually think about something for any length of time.
Yes, The majority,City council are in the business of protecting Albemarle County “interests first”. Remember folks, most,Council also support the damaging Meadowcreek Parkway. They sit and smile and have no regret for the destruction that will take place in center city Charlottesville. Wake up citizens, duhhhhh!
plop, I agree with you, but not everyone on council feels that way. We, as citizens, need to throw our loud support behind the councilors who ARE pro-citizen, and aren’t lapdogs of the wealthy county. Norris has stuck his neck out on Meadowcreek and the dam, but he’s only one vote on council. For that, he deserves a hell of a lot more respect than Martin and Palmer are showing. They need to apologize publicly.
If a councilor does something you like, let council know. If they do something you don’t like, let them know. There are times when they are on the fence about an issue and need us to back them up, preferably in person.
That said, some of them will always do whatever their masters tell them to, and can’t be reached by any of us regular folks.
Reality Check, As I noted, the city council is tilted in a sad direction. I agree Norris is a friendly guy here, BUT it is high time he raises his voice in a more vocal manner. As an effective LEADER he CAN take some creative and more outward steps. The educated pubic knows why several on council hang with the “convincing members” on the BOS.
HINT HINT: Follow the money and influences involved. Look into the properties with easements in the Western section of Albemarle. Question why PEC is very aligned with the BOS. And, before it is too late, have the expectation for Norris to rally in defense of his city.
A suggestion, Norris could organize a protest to prevent the destruction of historic McIntire Park. He is entitled to rally in in the city’s best interest, but will he, if not, Why?
It is one thing for the Mayor to look and act as a nice guy. The important piece is for him to publicly demand the best for his city.
I will add, it is appropriate to express thanks to Norris and any others for their votes in support of city interests. In fact, I’m sure Norris knows his vote is usually appreciated by most in the city. The problem, there is no public appeal by Norris to question the damaging and offensive votes often made by other members of council. Norris is in the lead as Mayor. I believe the public expects him to challenge the council more effectively.
We’re in complete agreement, plop.
Will also add that to be fully effective, council needs more “outsiders” on it, citizen-activists like Peter Kleeman for instance. We could do with fewer politically tied-in people like Taliaferro and Brown.
Reality Check, you are so right. Someone please explain to me why Brown was ever put on Council. Who did that benefit and who might have pulled strings to make it happen? I can’t remember a more unnecessary councilor in the 25 years I’ve lived here. Was he some sort of behind the scenes fundraiser or something? It is pretty clear that there is some sort of Democratic party machine working here. Why him?
Mayor Norris deserves, and seems to be receiving, wide public support! What a brave man who is well above the petty “Enlightened Self Interest” crowd. He acts like he is truly committed to doing the “right” thing.
One problem with “Enlightened Self Interest ” is that they will negotiate for their interest and once the are appeased their interest stops, far short of the “right” solution. You just cannot trust their integrity.
But Mayor Norris has the people’s interest close to his heart, or that is what I believe. The BOS, well I wouldn’t vote for any of them for any governmental position. Mysterious sellouts to special interest.
We will know that Council has done the right thing if we see the dredging surveys done as a comparison to the cost of the RWSA dam/pipeline plan for the water supply. And if we see a realistic study of the amount of water needed over 50 years using more accurate conservation data than we have now.
I do believe that Council will get this done before allowing any construction on a new dam and I hope I’m right, if not I believe we will see a very different council in the coming years than the one we have now and let’s hope that the ratepayers in the county demand the same.
Toilets account for approx. 30% of water used indoors. By installing a Dual Flush toilet you can save between 40% and 70% of drinking water being flushed down the toilet, depending how old the toilet is you are going to replace.
If you are serious about saving water, want a toilet that really works and is affordable, I would highly recommend a Caroma Dual Flush toilet. Caroma toilets offer a patented dual flush technology consisting of a 0.8 Gal flush for liquid waste and a 1.6 Gal flush for solids. On an average of 5 uses a day (4 liquid/ 1 solid) a Caroma Dual Flush toilet uses an average of 0.96 gallons per flush. The new Sydney Smart uses only 1.28 and 0.8 gpf, that is an average of 0.89 gallons per flush. This is the lowest water consumption of any toilet available in the US. Caroma, an Australian company set the standard by giving the world its first successful two button dual flush system in the nineteen eighties and has since perfected the technology. Also, with a full 3.5″ trapway, these toilets virtually never clog. All of Caroma’s toilets are on the list of WaterSense labeled HET’s http://www.epa.gov/watersense/pp/find_het.htm and also qualify for several toilet rebate programs available in the US. Please visit my blog http://pottygirl.wordpress.com/ to learn more or go to http://www.caromausa.com to learn where you can find Caroma toilets locally. Visit http://www.ecotransitions.com/howto.asp to see how we flush potatoes with 0.8 gallons of water, meant for liquids only. Best regards, Andrea Paulinelli, owner ecoTransitions Inc.
Betty, I agree 1000%%% with you on this issue! I do believe we of the same mind should hold firm and expect Council to also do the right thing with the Parkway issue. Time is running out fast. It is significant that our Mayor is unconvinced the Meadowcreek Parkway is appropriate and right for Charlottesville. As Norris believes moving forward here is problematic, he could call for a a rally on the mall (to protect the Park). I’m sure citizens would be willing to participate and even donate at this crucial time. Several weeks ago the Charlottesville Planning Commission voted Not to provide money for the road. This is a perfect time for Norris to call folks together in a public manner. If the destruction takes place, Brown and Taliaferro will be viewed in a very bad light. In fact, I wouldn’t want to be seen on the street if I were responsible for advocating for rape of the best Parkland in the city. I hope and pray Hugia will now do the right thing. I truly believe he may do so. That is all it will take to leave Brown and Taliaferro in the wind. They have been a huge disappointment in advocating for the people they represent.
Interesting article in today’s Daily Progress titled Dam Dispute
two views by Rich Collins and Neil Williamson. Does anyone know anything about the Free Enterprise forum or where they get their funding from?
plop, why are you waiting for the mayor to call a rally? I would would be glad to see you get it going so all he has to do is join in and offer a few words of support.
Are there actually people who don’t see Brown in a bad light. What kind of light are they viewing with I wonder?
Let’s remember too….
The city OWNS South Fork Rivanna Reservoir – that will be allowed to deteriorate under the water plan
The city OWNS Ragged Mountain Natural Area – where 180 acres and 50,000 trees will be lost to the water plan
The city OWNS Sugar Hollow Reservoir – the cleanest water that will be lost to city residents under the water plan
These city-owned resources are the sacrificial lambs to the current water plan. To add insult to injury, city residents will be required to pay for it.
Some councilors call this COOPERATION. And what exactly does the city get in return?
Higher bills for inferior water……
Lost, In answer to your question, yes, it appears some of those who are truly “out of touch or in denial” glaze over and ignore Brown’s ineffective and damaging role. Wasn’t he elected twice? My point, I think his days are numbered in politics, even in Charlottesville. He is turning the mainstream public off! People are finally catching on.
I think leaders should do what it takes to win a battle. Norris would be the more effective organizer of a rally. Many believe it is time he takes some firm action to stop the Parkway. He is nice, but far too quiet and accepting of failure at a point in time when the bulldozers are set to roll through the town.
is to elect a third person to council who opposes the parkway.
Or raise money to hire a darn good lawyer to fight it out in the courts
The only way,
Yes sir! I say go for it. I believe a well-organized fund raising campaign for legal support woud be well received in this locality. In the meantime, I would like to see more public debate in Council and “before the public”. Norris and Edwards have a great opportunity to pin the others down at this point. I have never heard Brown or Taliaferro give any smart comment on the matter. Hugia could be the hero here, in the long run. I think he is intelligent and always open to changing his mind.
Lorax, I agree we need to make sure we elect councilors that are strong advocates for City residents and who have as their first priority the interests of their citizens. This applies both to the parkway and the cost and environmental resources of the water plan.
Agreed with all, but put yourself in Norris’s shoes. He’s standing up for something and voting his conscience, yet we don’t have anything even close to consensus among Councilors on some of these issues. He sticks his neck out, alone, and the other councilors are staring at the ceiling or twiddling their thumbs. What’s he supposed to do? This has been going on a long time. On a personal level, how much of this could any of us stand? It takes a tremendous amount of guts and energy to repeatedly be odd-man-out (aka the voice of reason) for this long.
Huja has been a disappointment. The guy is incredibly smart and a very interesting person. He often asks the most perceptive questions. But I fear that he’s too much of a “company man” sometimes. I think that if Brown and Taliaferro were out of the picture, Huja and his ideas could really shine, and there’d be less political pressure on him.
Imagine a Council with people like Peter Kleeman, Betty Mooney, Colette Hall etc sitting up there with Norris, Edwards, and Huja.
We need to elect leaders who can rally others when the interests of their citizens are at stake and convince at least 2 other councilors of the rightness of their view. I am hopeful that the Alliance of Neighborhoods will be a new voice for the Citizens both city and county of our community. I encourage all neighborhoods to participate by signing up at this web-site you don’t need an organized assoc. to join.
http://www.allianceofneighborhoods.org/
You all forget that Huja said building the meadowcreek parkway was his number one priority if he got elected to council.
I documented much of what OBSERVER has written a while back, providing links to the various media, City Council minutes, Ivy Creek Foundation, Charlottesville Tomorrow, DP, and the Hook being my primary sources. I did not save any of my posts and I don’t want to take the time to seek that information again. For three days I have been trying to find the source of something I’ve read recently that says that John Martin says the public can not be trusted to conserve, implying that the 5% conservation rate estimated in the proposal’s future (there’s nothing about this that resembles a “plan”) conservation estimates. Of course, he doesn’t take into account the 15% water leakage rate that will change when the lines are fixed. And, if Andrea is correct that flusing averages about 30% of a household’s total water consumption, there can be an additional 12% of total usage conserved in those houlseholds this or a similar product.
It seems the biggest proponents of this proposal
Ridge Schuyler, John Martin (the bully) and Liz Palmer (all non-elected)are recognizing their dwindling support.
About the $1.2M, after the water rates go up to pay for this $200M+ white elephant, how much will the city have to put up to subsidized its residents’ water and sewer bills? This dam project is only a part of future expenditures to improve the water and sewer service to Charlottesville.
If you want to show your support for Norris, go to a Council meeting and publicly state it at the microphone for Overrun O’Connell, Marionette Brown (let’s cooperate with the county) and Taliaferro to hear. Perhpas you can convince others to do so, too.
Cville Eye, do you know anything about the Free Enterprise Forum and did you read the article by their president, Neil Williamson, in today’s Daily Progress titled Dam Dispute. I can’t find it online
Interesting… Thanks for setting the record straight. I didn’t realize Huga was dead set to push the parkway through. I hoped for better. I agree, the election of Peter, Colette, and Betty would be the city’s salvation. Here we have the best minds, common sense and real guts combined. No one will buy them off! Sorry, I still think Norris can do more to take the lead on these crucial issues. Come on, he is a grownup and he is the leader of the city. He is entitled to do what it takes to get the job done. That includes being more vocal in opposing County interests. As I read the Progress today, I saw where Norris thinks it is OK to name the parkway after Warner. Why would the Mayor think it is appropriate to name the road for someone who santioned the destruction of the city’s historic McIntire park? I’m scratching my head on this one.
Interesting commentary here. In response to the last posting — “plop,” just to correct the record, I did not say I would be OK naming the Parkway after Warner. I said that I didn’t care either way because I don’t support the road. They could name it after my own mother and I would still oppose the thing. Thanks for giving me the chance to clarify.
Anyone who attended the 4 board meeting on Nov 25th will realize that Dave Norris is providing firm leadership for the elected officials in calling for better cost estimates and dredging surveys before any construction begins on the dam.
http://readthehook.com/blog/index.php/2008/11/30/water-panic-in-giant-confab-officials-agree-to-study-pipeline/
If you want to understand what he’s up against just listen to the ACSA meeting responding to the City’s firm demand to get better cost estimates.
http://cvilletomorrow.typepad.com/charlottesville_tomorrow_/2008/12/acsa_mou_reaction.html
I agree with Cville Eye the more citizens come to speak up at Council and support the Mayor’s lead on getting the detailed cost estimates on the dam, pipeline, dredging, and better conservation data, and the parkway the better. Next chance to speak Monday Jan 5th at 7pm Council Chambers–that’s tomorrow hope to see you there !
Dave, Thanks for commenting. We realize you have said you don’t support the road. Thank you for your vote here, BUT please stand strong in firm opposition to “naming a road” you/most others oppose for a guy who pretty much “cooked the deal” for widespread environmental destruction through our town. As you don’t care whether or not the road is named for Warner, aren’t you offering positive reward for Warner’s questionable/objectionable contribution? Politicians like Warner love to have sites named for themselves. As you know, all of the area Republicans are chomping at the bit to honor Warner here. Please reconsider and realize that (your not caring whether or not the road is named for Warner), causes legitimate concern. Thanks again for your vote. Now is the time to do whatever it takes to stop this road fueled by County interests.
“Plop”,
The Meadowcreek Parkway will use part of McIntire Park, the side where the golf course is. The park is not being destroyed and besides, isn’t land going to added to replace that which will be lost? If it is going to be destroyed how will the YMCA build their megaplex there? Excess hyperoble doesn’t help your credibility. Or are you afraid of an accurate description of the impact of the road? I think the construction of the road could dramatically relieve the intense traffic on Park/Rio and other streets in that neighborhood.
You may believe that everyone is against the parkway but I believe that there are many people living in the city, including me, who want to see that road built.
As for the name, I’d like to see it named McIntire Road so that the road doesn’t change names like so many local roads do.
By the way just why is the park historic? Because McIntire gave the land to the city? He gave the land the 250 Bypass was built on. Maybe it’s historic because it was restricted to white people at one time. Does segregation make it historic? Is that what you mean? Lots of things were segregated during that shameful time. Preserving a golf course isn’t going to help people remember segregation, something that certainly should happen.
Every time somebody wants to stop a project they yell, “Stop! It’s historic!” Just because the land was donated a little while ago doesn’t make it historic.
Cordially,
Kevin Cox
One more thought, I would prefer to have read such comment/Today’s Progress: Norris: “No way would I ever consider putting a vote forth to honor Warner by naming the road for him. It is Warner who has paved the way for the desecration of our city’s historic parkland.”
“Desecration”? So now it’s a religious site as well as an historic site? Plop, are you a devout golfer?
Cordially,
Kevin Cox
Kevin, the way many see it, the golf course land that will be destroyed is some of the most unique green space in the city. Thank God the land has remained free of clutter unlike the other areas of McIntire Park. I’m also concerned about added traffic on the bypass that will most certainly occur as traffic is funneled in from 29N via the new Meadowcreek Parkway. The Covenant School area will be very negatively impacted.
Kevin, what is all of this yelling about segregation? Have you attended the recent first tee events, McIntire Golf course? You’re dwelling too much in the past in this case. Sorry, but many of your arguments don’t hold water. Remember Kevin, You have a right to your opinion and “so do the others.” Kevin, didn’t you once work for Forrest Marshall’s county political campaign? If so, no wonder you are pro parkway. Oh well, each to his own…
Kevin, Now calm down son. I think it is time for you to take a deep breath or a stiff drink. :-)))))))))))))
You fellas are reading implications that I ain’t makin’. Who’s yelling? Not me. I don’t need a drink either. Gave that poison up years ago, and Plop you sure aren’t my dad!
There isn’t going to be any huge increase in traffic. For one thing there’s already plenty, it’s on Park Street and Rio Road. A new route adjacent to an existing one isn’t going to cause a bunch of new jobs or homes. The traffic will move but people aren’t going to move here just to drive on the parkway, whatever it gets named.
Personally I am sorry that the road is necessary but it is. Lots of people have moved here and a lot of them are driving into and through town and they’re going to keep on coming and they’re going to keep on driving. We need the Eastern Connector too.
Plop, instead of snide insults why don’t you try a reasonable discussion? What’s historic about McIntire Park? I’m just askin’.
Cordially,
Kevin Cox
Kevin-
The parkway is going to go straight through the first Vietnam Veterans Memorial in the United States. Something Warner would support?
Here’s one link. If you Google, you’ll find others.
http://kleemanblog.blogspot.com/2008/12/coalition-to-preserve-mcintire-park.html
“The construction of the 250 interchange and parts of the parkway (McIntire Road Extended) will adversely affect historic sites in the immediate area. These include McIntire Park itself, the Rock Hill Estate Gardens, the first in the nation Vietnam Veterans Memorial, historic houses on Park Hill, the McIntire (Covenant) School built by Paul Goodloe McIntire, and the 1930s McIntire Golf Course. Section 106 of the National Historic Preservation Act requires that impacts on properties eligible for the national register be avoided and when avoidance is impossible, all efforts to mitigate these effects be taken.”
Kevin, First of all, you have appeared to have your feathers ruffled from the start. Come on, can’t you take some ribbing? You certainly make an effort to dish out your own jabs. In fact you have a reputation here, don’t you? Anyway, since you have asked, here goes. I’m not going to go into detail, but as far as Charlottesville is concerned, most citizens are aware that Paul G. McIntire is a very important and historic character. Read your local history and you will learn of his contributions. We all know the 250 bypass took part of his gift. When will the chopping off of the park stop? Not until residents say ENOUGH and demand accountability. The County does not want to build connectors. Get it? The county doesn’t want to destroy its own land to channel the traffic it generates. Nothing will change until the city government and residents finally say No to bypasses through the city. Why enable the floundering County officials here?
Any dummy knows this road will pull in many more vehicles a day into the city. I say now is the time to “hold out” and make the county build some highways around the city.
Kevin, I am also curious as city kid brought up the subject. Did you work for Forrest Marshall’s county campaign? If so, this would be very telling. Come on, fess up.
The impact on the Vietnam Memorial is very unfortunate but the memorial can be shifted to a nearby site with only a small impact.
Other than the Rock Hill gardens I don’t think the road is going to require the demolition of any of the other sites that Peter Kleeman mentions. The road may be near them, as is the 250 Bypass right now but I don’t think any of the buildings mentioned will be destroyed. Do you know if the buildings mentioned and the gardens will be demolished? I realize that Peter only said “adversely affect” but I want to clarify what that means. It does not mean that they will be demolished. How much more can McIntire School be affected than it already is? As for the golf course, I realize that it’s become popular to label anything that’s old as historic but age alone does not make something historical.
Cordially,
Kevin Cox
Kevin, did you work for Forest Marshall’s county campaign? Yes or No? My guess, a no answer means YES.
Plop,
Your assumptions are incorrect on several counts. My support for the road has zilch to do with Forrest. He’s my friend but we disagree about a number of issues. He also is a strong supporter for Land Use taxation. I think it’s a terrible program that doesn’t work and forces non-eligible tazpayers to support eligible landowners. Believe what you want to if it makes you feel good. Try using your name, you may feel even better.
Thank goodness the land for the 250 Bypass was used and that road was built!
Please tell me why the road will pull more traffic into the city other than “any dummy” knows it. I disagree with you plop, that doesn’t make me a dummy.
Cordially,
Kevin Cox
If I lived in the county when Forrest ran I would have supported him. I don’t think though, that I did much but so what? I am not supporting the road because of Forrest. This is kind of comical actually.
GUILTY! I wrote a letter endorsing Forrest Marshall to The Daily Progress (I think I did anyway, it’s been awhile)!
Cordially,
Kevin Cox
Kevin, Now we know, this is a “birds of a feather” issue, hanging with Marshall. Longtimers in the region know of your politics. You expect others to cough it up, but you are reluctant to be straight with us. You clearly aided Marshall and his campaign. Why not just say so? You’re the only guy being laughed at here. Hey, we use our real names when we want to. Who are you to criticize someone for using a tag name?
You appear to be a county hugger in the parkway case. I’m sure your friend Forrest is proud of you.
Thanks Andrea for the interesting information. Someone wrote at Dave’s blog that in 50 years the whole technology of how we use water will change and once again Dave is in the forefront of our elected officials in calling for greater conservation efforts that have already happened and will continue to happen to be factored into our water plan. This data is required for our community to qualify for a state approved water plan due in 2011 and which we currently do not have.
http://cvilledave.blogspot.com/2008/12/is-waynesboro-really-7-times-smarter.html
Kevin, the parkway will absolutely pull in more traffic into/through central Cville. Isn’t that the purpose of the project?
Baloney City Guy and plop. I don’t care if you know I supported Forrest. It has nothing to do with my feelings about the road. Huja supports it and it would be a cold day in hell before I ever supported him in any election. And I don’t give a hoot who knows what about my politics. I’m not trying to hide anything.
I have posted under an alias but I stopped a long time ago. I never do now and I never will. It’s not for me. If I can’t put my name on what I write I don’t want to post it.
As for the actual topic of this thread I have to say that I bought my own low flush toilets and front loading washer and low flow shower heads. It’s made a huge difference and the kits may help others realize the same benefits. But conservation alone isn’t going to solve the problem. Dredge the reservoir ! I hope that the crazy plans for the dam and the pipeline are stopped.
Cordially,
Kevin Cox
Kevin, Cool off, Go ahead and use your own name if you choose to. No one really cares. You also have the right to support Forrest. Forrest has not been a true and consistent friend to the environment though. As we know the history of his rocky reign, those who aligned with him politically are certainly called into question. Glad to know you now make up your own mind in many ways. I agree, stop the plans for the pipeline and dredge! It is the County that will once again be the hangup in this case. Let’s hope council has the guts to finally stand up to the county. The county has a history of successfully manipulating the city. That is exactly why folks are raising eyebrows with regard to the Parkway.