By the Wayside: Busted bridge burns businesses
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"It blows my mind that they've done all this without thinking about the consequences for us," says JPA Fast Mart owner Jeff Catlett, who says monthly revenues are down 70 percent because of the bridge project.Photo by Jen Fariello -
Since April, a pedestrian walkway ran by Wayside businesses (Wayside Chicken shown here), but that was closed off after the old bridge was demoed and a temporary pedestrian bridge was built.Photo by Jen Fariello -
Unfortunately, VDOT planners put the ped bridge on the other side of the road, cutting off Wayside businesses from foot traffic.Photo by Jen Fariello -
"That bridge project is killing us," says Wayside Barber Shop owner Bobby Bishop, who has been in business for 30 years. "They don't care about the little people."Photo by Jen Fariello -
VDOT put up signage designed to help Wayside businesses...Photo by Dave McNair -
...but Wayside business owners say its only added to the confusion at the intersection.Photo by Jen Farriello -
Last year, Hoos Brews' Joan Bishop (barber Bobby's wife) and Brittany Shaver were busy...since April, not so much.Photo by Jen Fariello -
Business at Wayside Deli has slowed down as well.Photo by Jen Fariello -
After more than five months, the old bridge recently came down. It will be another 11 months before the new one opens.Photo by Jen Fariello -
What the new JPA Bridge will look like.VDOT rendering
Back in May, business owners next to VDOT's JPA Bridge project, a new $11 million, 67-foot wide car and pedestrian bridge over the tracks of the Norfolk Southern railroad that's going to take 18 months to build, complained that the project was hurting their businesses. Five months later, they say the project is "killing" their businesses.
Since May, a pedestrian path ran by Wayside Chicken and the JPA Fast Mart, providing some foot traffic past the long-time group of businesses on the corner while a more sturdy temporary pedestrian bridge was being built. Last week, the pedestrian bridge was completed. But there's just one problem. It was built on the other side of the street.
That, says JPA Fast Mart owner Jeff Catlett, just added insult to injury.
"It blows my mind that they've done all this without thinking about the consequences for us," says Catlett, who points out that pedestrians now have to negotiate an obstacle course of bright orange traffic barrels, netting, and whites barriers to get to his store.
"It's a convenience store, but its not so convenient anymore," says JPA
Fast Mart manager Bill Claytor, who has a big sign out front advertising free coffee in an effort to get customers to negotiate the construction mess. "Businesswise, this project is killing us."
As UVA football fans know, JPA has always been a convenient place to park, as homeowners there cash in by offering spots within walking distance of the stadium, a walk that has always taken fans right past the JPA Fast Mart.
"Now we have a third to a half of the business we used to have on game days," says Claytor.
Catlett, who has been operating the store for 18 years in the long-time corner business area known as Wayside, says monthly business is off by 70 percent.
"We've been taking in about $60,000 to $70,000 a month for the last 18 years," says Catlett. "Now we're lucky if we do $30,000."
And there's still about a year to go before the bridge is completed.
While business owners understand the need to replace the 80-year old bridge, they say that not enough was done, by either VDOT and City, to help them survive the long construction project. For instance, with an $11 million budget for the project, Catlett wonders why there wasn't a little set aside to help the businesses at Wayside weather the unusually long construction project.
Advanced warning
Back in April, Fry Springs Neighborhood Association president Hardy Whitten allerted City Council and development staff to the concerns of Wayside business owners, saying their were reports of "severe adverse impacts" as a result of the bridge project.
In a April 21 email, Whitten said the neighborhood expected the City to support the Wayside business as it had other business directly affected by infrastructure repair projects, "such as the re-bricking of the Main St Mall."
Indeed, the city re-bricked the Downtown Mall in planned stages, and created a marketing campaign, to make sure the construction work didn't adversly affect businesses. However, as City staff point out, the new JPA bridge is a Virginia Department of Transportation project, not a city project like the Mall re-bricking. Still, City money is going toward the project, and because it's a major City infrastructure improvement, neighborhood advocates and Wayside business owners expected the same support.
Whitten's concerns were forwared to VDOT's Construction Engineer, Kenneth J. Shirley, who responded by saying he was unaware of what steps were taken during the Mall re-bricking to help mitigate business impacts, and that he would be "truely interested" in learning about what had been done. He said a "Business Access" sign was on order, and that "four or five" barrels were removed to improve visibility."
"Should the City agree to place additional signage around and about town, we will be more than glad to consider placement of signs outside the corporate limits," Shirley wrote.
However, as Wayside Barber Shop owner Bobby Bishop points out, while the City and VDOT welcome big stores like Best Buy, all they've offered the small business on the corner of Jefferson Park Avenue and Fontaine Avenue are a few signs.
"They don't care about the little people," says Bishop, busily cutting a Region Ten client's hair free of charge, something he has done for the last 30 years."That bridge project is killing us."
Five years ago, Bishop opened coffee and ice cream place called Hoos Brews in the building next door, and while he says the place was "packed with young people" just last year, business has plummeted since the bridge project started. If he had known the bridge project was going to be like this, that it was going to take 18 months to build, and that the City would offer no real help to the businesses affected by the project, he says he never would have opened Hoo Brews.
"I've been in business here since 1960," says Bishop, "I don't mind going out of business if I'm not doing a good job. But I don't like being run out of business."
Wayside Deli and Durty Nelly's owner, Gary Hagar, echos Bishop's concerns, admitting that his businesses are suffering, but he resists getting bitter.
"We'll wade through it as best we can," he says. "We gotta be tough."
Still, those who watch the construction everyday can't believe how slow it is progressing. Indeed, a reporter showed up at about 11:40am on a weekday and there were three workers on site moving a port-a-potty. The cranes and heavy equipment were all silent. About an hour later, however, they sprang to life with a full crew operating them.
So why is it taking so long?
In a prepared statement, VDOT, the agency in charge of the project, says that "complex work involving the relocation of utilities" and the replacement of the bridge in such a "tight space" are some reasons for the 18-month construction timeline. In addition, VDOT explains that having to work around pedestrians and the train activity below the bridge–- as many as 10 trains a day pass by–- has required them to stop work when trains pass, "cutting up to several hours out of the workday."
"One thing that surprised me initially when I walked by the site a few months ago is the amount of foundation prep work that is being done," says UVA structural engineering professor Tom Baber. " I haven't kept track of it more recently, but it appeared at the time that a substantial number of drilled piles were being installed. That takes some time, and can slow a project down. My guess is that the extensive foundation work is the main reason for the apparently long construction time."
A major reason for such a foundation structure, says Baber, is that it is being built over a functioning railroad.
"I can say from personal experience that the railroads won't let you proceed until you have absolutely ensured that their track will not be compromised in any way, shape or form, even for a short time," says Baber. " They can't afford to have their tracks closed, since closing 25 feet of track is the same as closing 100 miles of track. They take a very conservative approach toward projects that encroach on their rights of way. "
Still, in comparison, the first phase of the Stonefield development project on Route 29, which involves excavating 65 acres of land, building 270,000 square feet of retail space, a town center, a 14-screen mega theater, and Trader Joe's, is scheduled to take 13 months.
"I've been watching them work on that bridge since they started," says an employee at the Exxon across the street, "and they definitely need a little pep in their step."
Other bridge projects
Indeed, while the JPA Bridge project challenges that UVA's Baber mentioned are real, other similar projects provide a sharp contrast to the planning and execution of the JPA Bridge project.
For instance, in Lebanon, Pennsylvania, a 50-million dollar bridge project involving the construction of two bridges over Norfolk Southern rail tracks is expected to take just six months longer than the JPA project. Then there's the Milton-Madison Bridge Project being built by the Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) that crosses the Ohio River, connecting Milton, Kentucky and Madison, Indiana.
The project was recently voted one of the top ten bridge projects in the country by Roads & Bridges magazine. Using a method called "truss sliding," a new 2,400-foot-long steel truss and road deck will be run across the Ohio River beside the old bridge on temoprary bridge towers, providing a route for traffic, then be "slid" on to the new bridge towers when they are completed. Bridge construction is expected to take a little longer than the JPA Bridge project, but traffic over the river will only be halted for 10 days.
City response
The Hook asked Neighborhood Development Chief Jim Tolbert, as well as all five City Councilors, to respond to the concerns of Wayside business owners, but that task was handed off to City spokesperson Ric Barrick, who says the City is "sympathetic" to their business needs and are trying to do what they can.
"We're going to be surveying surrounding businesses to assess the gravity of the challenge," says Barrick. "Meanwhile, we've instructed VDOT to enhance signage and improve access."
In addition, Barrick says they've encouraged the local media to run stories about the corner, hoping it might encourage patronage, and ordered food for five of the City's town hall meeting dinners from Wayside Chicken and the JPA Fast Mart.
"We're currently working with the appropriate UVA departments to encourage them to use those businesses," says Barrick, " and we are looking into a possible matching funds advertising campaign to offer those businesses."
For businesses owners, however, that may be too little, too late.
"I know we need the bridge," says Catlett, "and I'm sure there's some reason why they put the pedestrian bridge on the other side of the street, but we received no real help from the City or VDOT. Next time, I hope they think about that."
35 comments
Watching government employees work? What an oxymoron................
Moving a port-a-potty? Priceless!
What the business owners need to do is to set up web cams showing the work not being done so people can understand how little is going on at any one time. They ALL stop working when a train passes even the people up who are nowhere near the train below. This is a perfect example of Government incompetence and the public should demand action. If that bridge were the only way to the mayors house you can be dam sure it would be going faster.
it is inexcuasable. They should have people working on every corner of the bridge in a coordinated fashion.
Whoever allowed 18 months to build a bridge that small should be FIRED.
If the council spent a little less looking for the next clock or solidarity vote and a little more time demanding that the residents lives are taken care of we would not have problems like this.
This is a platform for an independent to run on. This is a fight that needs to be fought.
I am so sick of the city hall talk about helping businesses and the lack of action - this is the perfect example. Long time establishments left to rot .
I attended last nights forum and if you want to see the city staff do better elect Smith/Fenwick/Collins. They made it crystal clear they are ready, willing, and able to represent the citizens who aren't being heard over the noise of county interests.
Huja and Galvin were also clear that they are the democratic wing of county government in the city ( controlled by large development interests) not the little guy/gal just trying to run a small business.
I hate the bridge construction. I live ont he other side, and it is such a pain not to be able to quickly run to JPA fastmart anymore. I can't lie, I used to visit there a few times a week, but now after the construction I'v only been twice. It makes it really hard to get to work and to other places in a timely manner. The traffic it has caused on Shamrock is a nightmare. I would have known about the bridge, before moving to the area, I would have changed my mind
Even if Huja didn't represent development interests, he voted to hire Maurice Jones. This is Jones's failure, and big one!
I think Fenwick would have had the sense to see what was coming with this bridge project( and with hiring someone as unready as Maurice Jones to manage the city's affairs). We really need some sense like that that on council. It's a pretty unlikely group at first glance, but I've really come to believe that Fenwick, Smith, and Collins are the best choices in the coming election.
"the City would offer no real help to the businesses effected by the project...."
The word is "affected." Affected by the project. Not effected.
Time to crack that AP Style Guide, kids.
actually, perhaps the more accurate word would be "afflicted"
as in "The workers are so slow that they appear to be afflicted with some sort of disease that renders thems so slow that the Police almost drew chalk around them"
@Bill Marshall - I hate to intrude on your government-employee bashing, but you do realize the bridge is being built by a private contractor? If not, you might want to check out VDOT's page on the bridge project.
There is just no way this wasn't going to clobber the convenience store - they just aren't convenient anymore. I do wonder why it wasn't possible to retain egress for their front parking spaces somehow. I eat up at Nelly's, or Wayside Chicken, at least once a week and the project hasn't changed that for me.
I honestly don't think the fact that the pedestrian bridge is now on the north side of JPA is really harming those businesses, but again: I'm not sure why the construction crew can't just maintain an easier pedestrian path across JPA from the new pedestrian bridge to the little shopping center. Let's face it though, it's the lack of parking and ability to drive into that center - a problem which has plagued that place for years and years - that keeps people from going into the convenience store.
I used to go to Food Lion and CVS on 5th extended, but not anymore! I'll start again when the bridge is back.
I understand COMPLETELY that this is contracted work and that the contractors answer bids as requested by VDOT specs and that they all play games in the good ole boys network to rob the taxpayers.
Let walmart solicit bids for the same bridge from the same contractors (for access to their store,) that needs to meet the same specs and you will get it done for half price. There is no reason whatsover for that bridge to take longer than 90 days to build. They had the plans. They could order all the materials and store them nearby and get to work. It is A JOKE. They milk it to make it seem like it is complicated. It is a BRIDGE over railroad tracks. It is no big deal. It is taking longer to build the bridge than to build Stonefields shopping center with all its underground tanks, plumbing heat electrical fixtures, parking lots and architectural reviews.
How the the public allows 18 month road closures for these small mickey mouse projects is unbelievable to me.
Why do people thnk that it is ok for the government to inconvience 1000 people every day for 500+ days for a project like this? It is a joke.
THe Hook should do a story on what is actually being done and WHY it takes so long. The bid has to show the man hours involved. There are enough Civil engineers around to consult
They could build it out of legos in 18 months.
Maurice Jones is a nice guy, but completely over his head in his present position. I don't believe Fenwick would have hired this guy.
Time for an independent on council and given the abysmal lack of oversight by Huja of the RWSA and his willingness to give up valuable city assets because the county demands it --not voting for him.
I think Norris has been weakened by lack of a majority on council to support his effort to stand up to county pressure, so, if you know any voters spread the word - Fenwick/Smith/Collins to return the city to the people and prevent loss of city assets.
Anyone can tell Smith is biting her tongue every time she has to say she supports Huja and Galvin. Clear to me she supports Fenwick, and they would be dynamite together on council.
The proposed dam at ragged mountain is only two million more.
Somebody is getting very rich off this debacle
http://cvilletomorrow.typepad.com/charlottesville_tomorrow_/2011/01/wate...
@ Bill Marshall: You said; "Let walmart solicit bids for the same bridge from the same contractors (for access to their store,) that needs to meet the same specs and you will get it done for half price." Are you saying that 11 contractors that bid on this project ALL inflated their costs to rob tax payers? The other 10 contractors must not have wanted this job that bad!
"It is a BRIDGE over railroad tracks. It is no big deal." - that has to be your most hilarious statement. Any developer or contractor having to work nearby or over a railroad knows the agony dealing with them. They own the property, they hold all the cards, and when they want one of their dozen daily trains moving through that area, they have the power to wave their flag and by contract, everyone inside RR right-of-way has to stop work and clear the zone.
Bill,
While agree with you that what is going on is a travesty, and that it is punishing these small businesses, I am not sure how that suddenly all equates to the government messing up. So, what, are you saying that due to its massive size, WalMart can bully contractors in a way that the City can't? Or the Railroad?
I could agree that the big muscle like WalMart can bully people, when a small City government can't, but that should send up alarms for you in a different direction. If the taxpayer can't get protection from the government, where else are they gpoing to get it? From the courts?
Ah, but then its frivolous lawsuits, isn't it?
Sigh.....
I just find it so frustrating to have an consistent rational conversation with you,e ven when I really want to agree with you. Get off the ideology, and let your brain work. There is obviously one in there.
Since the project is going to take forever, they should make them do the pedestrian bridge over. Classic construction project. Follow the money trail and those that benefit, and I am not talking about having a new and better bridge aspect of it.
This is yet another example of why we all need to revert back to subsistence farming!!! Vote Fenwick unless you want to feed the city's poor to county fatcats! This is an example of government run amok! No, wait, of government not doing enough! Or, ummm..... WHAT ABOUT DREDGING!!!
Clearly something needs to be punished because there is a convenient store that is not doing well in Charlottesville! Why isn't the government helping this business out? I mean, it's one of the GOOD businesses that gov't SHOULD BE helping. Not one of the BAD businesses that I've learned will be enriched unless we DREDGE THE RESERVOIR!!!!
Or something like that anyway.... I think I read something about this in the hook?
I understand that the businesses are hurting, but to say that the project is going slowly is simply not true. I ride my bike over the pedestrian bridge twice a day and it amazing the amount of engineering and construction that has already occurred. This is a huge project and I witness multi-tasking all of the time. It is irresponsible to report that since these are government workers they are sitting around or moving a port-a-pottie because it just isn't true.
Destroying the local economy in the interest of being green. I'm not so sure VDOT didn't locate the temporary pedestrian bridge on the opposite side of the road deliberately. The folks running things have had an agenda of bringing down the American economy for quite some time now, this would help put one more small business owner out of business, you do the math.
Bill - I am a civil engineer by degree and trade. I completely understand the scope and complications of building a project like this. 18 months may be a little long for this project, but not by much. I'll tell you exactly why this project is expected to take so long:
1) There are existing utilities under and around the bridge that need to be relocated before the bridge can even be demolished. Each one of those has it's own complexities. Installation of gas lines and water lines is not difficult work, but it doesn't happen over night. Rush those, and you have a big mess.
2) The City demanded that pedestrian access be maintained at all times during the project. This was for the benefit of the residents and businesses that you claim that the City does not support. Without that requirement, sure they could have probably cut 4 months off, maybe, but think of the backlash from a decision like that.
3) The railroad is extremely protective of thier property. As they should be. Thousand ton death machines cruise by the site at high speed 12 times a day. The railraod and contractors must be very cautious not to compromise their safety. Perhaps you don't care about lowly construction workers. Well, OSHA certainly does, and the City too. How productive would you be if you had to stop working for 15 minutes every hour? about 25% less productive, at least. Not to mention the time lost from setting up and removal of equipment on or above the tracks.
4) This project has taken an orchestrated effort of many contractors all working on top of each other in a very tight space. Everything has to be carefully planned out to maintain traffic - both vehicular and pedestrian, ensure that utility service is not disrupted, minimize noise impacts, and keep contractors working. All within an area the size of a soccer field. That is in no way comparable to the Stonefield project.
If you care so much, and think the City is doing a terrible job, then offer solutions, not just criticisms. People should not accept haircuts "free of charge" from an institution that they frequent and they know is struggling.
Chris M It is true that when a train goes by those in the right of way (danger area) need to stop, BUT those who are NOT in the danger area stop too. It is a joke, They are simply taking advantge of the situation.
Old Timer, YOU could secure a better bid for this. These builders know the game and rig the bids back and forth in all kinds of ways to overblow the projects. The engineers make things complicated to get more money and the builders keep quiet about it because they get paid more for the unessasary engineering.
"An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications"
Anybody else in construction want to weigh in on how fast THEY could get the job done?
In this economy when people would be happy just for the work there is ZERO reason for anyone to get overtime or pay differential for weekend or splt shifts. So they should have required 12 hour days with split shifts and way more workers (each only working 40 hours per week) to get the job done quick. If you need more than 50 yards allied concrete will open on Saturday at no extra charge.
18 months is unacceptable. If the railroad is givng anybody aggravation then have the head of VDOT call the head of the rail line and if that doesn't work then have the Governemts staff make the call.If that doesn't work then find out what is important to them and make them miserable until they cooperate.
Private business trumps government everytime, but only because people are content with "close enough for government work"
Kosmo, This is by no stretch a large operation. Do you see people on bith sides with tandem equipment meeting in the middle? They built the golden gate bridge in 4 years.
http://goldengatebridge.org/research/facts.php#HowLongtoBuild
People are correct to be upset.
Bill: So let 'em stand around... if anybody is being taken advantage of, it's the owner of R.R.Dawson, Inc. As long as VDOT made no mistakes in the contract documents, the contractor gets paid the bid price, no less, no more. If they're late delivering the final product, the contractor pays liquidated damages to VDOT. If they complete the project earlier and under budget - it's good PR for everyone and profit for the contractor, but that rarely happens.
The relationship between contractors and VDOT isn't as chummy as you think it is. Transportation construction is a very cut-throat industry.
informed citizen speaks like a true policy wonk.
I have been involved in commercial construction my entire working life and this project is only complicated because people interested in keeping their own jobs made it that way. OSHA does not require people working on top of the bridge abutment to stop working but the contractor billed for it in the bid. The railroad IS protective of their property, but that does not mean that they have the right to control things. If joe citizen owned the property the state would tell them what to do not the other way around. As for "highly coordinated" that is an absolute falsehood. They do not care. Everybody is making money on this deal and a lot of it. Go to the site and look at it yourself. It is not a complicated engineering feat it is a bridge.
I don't know about 90 days but certainly 6 months is more than enough.
Obviously some of you have never worked construction involving railroad. They tend to have more power and pull then any gov't entity. Its amazing really.
I am interested in knowing what some of the merchants in that area would like to see the City do>
Must have been a "shovel ready" job- maybe, "shovel ready" to lean on job..............
Chris M It is attitudes like yours that got us here. Why should the taxpayers wait a year and a half to build a 100 foot bridge? A week to move to gas line, a week to move the power line, a week for the cable and phone and a month for any sewer and water. MEANWHILE they could already be pouring footers and such. You say they are just taking advantage of their employer and I am saying that it starts with an engineer who makes it much more complicated than it needs to be so he can charge more and everybody else goes along.. meanwhile we have to wait a year and a half and pay 11 million dollars for a 100 foot bridge.
The civil engineer disagrees and asks what I would do, well I already said it. The Hook should spend a couple of hours and ask a local steel company how much the steel costs and call alllied concrete and ask how much a yard of concrete costs. They should ask the workers (quietly) how fast they could get it done if they were on commision. Then they should find civil engineers that work in the private sector for major companies who want things done QUICK and see what the time frame really should be.
Stonefield is moving utilities also. They have to work right on 29 in confined areas.
The taxpayers deserve better.
I want to thank commenters non-resident taxpayer and Informed C'ville Citizen and Chris M for their lucid and insightful remarks. They helped to bring even more clarity and understanding to this article by Dave McNair on the construction of the JPA bridge.
The construction of that bridge is, perhaps, a metaphor for the larger national issue of infrastructure deterioration, the need for public investments in rebuilding and improving that infrastructure, job creation, and promoting the general welfare of the nation. Moreover, it shines a harsh light on the silly, simplistic, erroneous and hypocritical arguments that conservatives continue to spew about democratic governance.
Reporter McNair notes that business for JPA Fast Mart owner Jeff Catlett has declined due to the bridge construction. Yet, that decline is temporary, and even Catlett says “I know we need the bridge.”
C’ville Citizen explained from an engineering perspective why construction will take 18 months. Other have pointed out that the state operated under a competitive bidding process –– a process required by law to ensure fairness and taxpayer value –– in funding the construction, and the work is begin performed by private contractors under terms of the contract(s). When the work is completed, everybody – business owners, taxpayers, the general public – will benefit. Everybody will be better off than before.
Still, the conservative ranters – notably bill marshall and tim taylor –– churn out their small-minded, inaccurate invectives against government. These dogmatists seem to forget – or detest – that in a democracy, government is “of the people, by the people, for the people.” It is not an evil. It is us.
Moreover, what the ranters refuse to acknowledge is that it’s their ideology and policies that are the root cause of or current economic and infrastructure woes. For example, while Ronald Reagan’s supply-side economic policies cut taxes for corporations and the wealthy (and raised them on workers) while slashing infrastructure spending. Budget deficits and debt piled up. The rich got richer, the poor got poorer and the middle class got squeezed. George W. Bush resurrected Reagan’s supply policies, profligate spending, and aided and abetted corruption on Wall Street.
Conservatives, however, refuse to take any responsibility for using government to impose economic and regulatory policies that raided public treasuries, siphoned money into very private bank accounts, and left behind a financial mess. In essence, they perpetrated a huge fraud on the nation. The citizenry got stuck with the clean-up, and the bill.
Yet, according to conservatives, it is “government” that is the problem, and not them. The convoluted rants of bill marshall and tim taylor (or of paul ryan and eric cantor and rush limbaugh at the national level) make clear where the real problem lies.
Democracy, your small mind must really be smoking after that rant... put a cool towel on your head lest you blow an eardrum.
The point is that the "competitive bid" proces is RIGGED from the start because the people at VDOT have no incentive to secure anything except the lowest bid. In the real world where people have to EARN the money to pay for things they do not just look for the lowest bid they actually look at the project, estimate its cost and then evaluate the bids to see if they can afford it. In private industry the engineers are charged with the responsibility to engineer something that is easy to build in a short amount of time that meets all safety needs and is cost efficent both in construction and ongoing maintanance. They then give apperance options as a secondary item to keep costs down. In the public sector they hire an engineer who makes things complicated but pretty so that they can make a lot of money on the job. The contractors are happy because the work required is more and therefore they will make more. In the private sector the engineer knows that if he brings back some overdone thing like that he will be fired and replaced. The pprivate sector has to comply with al the Govt regulations too but gets things done for half price in half the time.
This is what gannet and flemming did with the dam estimates.
and Democracy, paying TO MUCH for the bridge is why we are broke. Causing traffic backups and starving busineses for 18 months instead of 6 months is why we are broke.
They may choose the lowest bid but they still have to bid on what VDOT wants which is speced out by someone who is charged with pleasing the local politicians who want to please the peolpe who don't care how much it cost as long as it is fancy.
It is a 100 foot by 67 foot bridge. going over railroad tracks. It is not the golden gate.
Bill Marshall- PERFECT!!
as mentioned previously
"Moving a port-a-potty? Priceless!"
For all of you Dems bashing posters on the technical end of things, let us just revert back to the simple thesis here:
Whenever government gets involved in projects, it screws them up. Now, surely infrastructure has to involve government, but you can be sure a government like Chville's will be prone to screwing it up.
And for those of you crying that this is a microcosm of what is going on nationally: We need more infrastructure improvement, so let's put people to work on "shovel ready" projects...spare me the FDR and Jimmy Carter rhetoric. Their schemes didn't work...they won't work now.
The Navy "Sea Bees" or Army Engineers could have built a better bridge in less than a week. I have seen them do it. I have personally observed the goings on there at JPA, and let me tell you if they worked any slower they would be going in reverse. "Informed C-ville Citizen" either works for that company or graduated from Va Tek Civil Engineering if he thinks the timeline of this project is acceptable.
I have to agree with Mr. Hargraves, this is the 21st century, there is no logical reason for this to move so slowly. I too have watched the goings on and many days there is no one there for much of the day.
The comments by bill marshall, Liberalce, and doyle hargraves read like the typical uninformed and snide conservative snarking that they are. As usual, they are far off base.
@ bill marshall: if you want to see what a "small mind" looks like, please step in front of a mirror. And billy boy, if the “private sector” is so darned good then how do you explain the massive fraud and corruption on Wall Street?
Indeed, in the wake of the dotcom bubble-burst, the major players on Wall Street finally were forced to pony up $1.5 billion in fines for fraud. And following that, major players were fined for bribery (JPMorgan) money laundering (Credit Suisse, Citbank), and tax fraud (UBS). Then, of course, there was Enron. And WorldCom. And Global Crossing. And Tyco. And the subprime mortgage and derivatives fraud(s), about which Martin Wolf of The Financial Times said, "It was a great big Ponzi scheme." The list just goes on.
The big national debt and the current economic crisis were brought on, and aided and abetted, by the people and policies that you and your dogmatic brethren supported. Stop trying to place the blame on “government,” when it was conservative politicians in government who were directly responsible.
@ doyle hargraves: tell your story about how great the corps of engineers is to the people of New Orleans.
@ Liberalace: are you seriously saying that the New Deal didn’t work? Seriously?
Federal deposit insurance cut bank failures from more than 4,000 in 1933 to only 9 the next year. There would never be more than 75 failures in any year until Reagan deregulated the savings and loan industry in the 1980s. And Glass-Steagall Act (the Banking Act of 1933, which created FDIC) kept commercial and investment banking separate and limited risk-taking on Wall Street, until it was repealed. The New Deal created the Securities and Exchange commission to regulate Wall Street (under George W. Bush, its enforcement division was gutted). The New Deal created Social Security, which despite conservative whining and criticism, has worked quite well and has contributed not one penny to the debt problem. The New Deal created the TVA, and brought electricity and a better life to people in the rural areas of 7-8 states. And the New Deal led to the construction of more than 650,000 miles of highway, and 8,000 parks, and 125,00 buildings (including schools), and tens of thousands of miles of drainage piping, and nearly 125,000 bridges, among other things. Historians, and those whose lives were positively impacted, say the New Deal worked.
bill, doyle, and ace: are you dudes still denying climate change too?
Staying with the subject- They do manufacture one piece, cast bridges to be used temporarily or permanently installed.
and now on to "democracy"- in order of his spewing
Wall Street bankers did nothing illegal, I guess, or wouldn't their friends in the White House and Justice Department seek prosecution? (maybe John Corzine is the first to fall, Geitner next?)
How about how the Mayor of New Orleans treated the electorate- don't blame the CoE, look what they had to work with.
The New Deal worked! .....but today we are not looking to bring electricity and roads to millions, but broadband to those who do not want or need it. The current fantasy can't work- already admitted to not being shovel ready!
they also had some economist during those years who were not part of the elite. FDR was an elitist, but couldn't balance a checkbook- look at who he brought in to work out the New Deal.
They probably do not "deny" climate change, but more likley deny that "we the people" have as much to do with it as some may want us to think.
"democracy"- now gather your thoughts and get on my case..........I need something to comment on Sunday morning- remember who has owned the economy for the last 3 years (if you say the POTUS inherited it and didn't know how bad it was, then surely he was the wrong choice for the electorate)
Bill, your problem is that you think you have things figured out - at least when it comes to bridge construction.
A 100 foot bridge still has to go through the same processes (design, construction, inspection, etc) as a 'Golden Gate' bridge. Concrete doesn't cure faster because it's only 100 feet long (and there's a lot of it). VDOT inspectors have to test every component of the bridge.
Not to knock on the other commenters on this thread, but they seem to be in commercial construction or site development, and they're like apples and oranges. Design specifications on transportation projects are more stringent, because the live loads they encounter are greater (among other things). Construction specs require more testing because state DOTs want to have low maintenance structures.
This project will take a long time... There are probably construction activities (maybe quality testing) that's going on that you can't see... And chances are that it is a construction activity that is on the critical path, otherwise the contractor would be moving - because these days, about the only way for a contractor to make a profit, is to finish early.
I will bet my life if that bridge contract had bonuses for an aggressive timeline and an early completion. I would have driven across a new bridge today. Money gets things done.
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